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Demigod: Breakthru

Yes!

By on May 2, 2009 8:25:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week.

Here's what we've built:

1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.

2. If you don't do this, we will try to do a quick NAT connect. This takes longer but works for most people.

3. If NAT fails, you will be connected to our Proxy server system.  This is not going to be super desireable at first because the physical location of the Proxy server is going to make the difference between a good and a lagfest.  When the proxy server is nearby (east coast US player for instance to the east cost proxy server) it's perfectly good.  But, for instance, if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare.  so this is clearly your last result.

...

Now, right now, the current version of Demigod uses a connectivity server that ONLY does option 2.  That's because it was decided early on that users shouldn't have to open ports.  This, IMO, should NEVER have been the first option because when you force even technically sophisticated users into this system, you end up having a LOT of unnecessary connections to these NAT servers.

...

So, I feel confident that this next week is going to be the turning point for those people who have had connectivity difficulties PLUS the whole range of stat stuff, pantheon stuff, etc. will all come into line as well because, as I've said elsewhere, because the connectivity thing was our #1 priority, everyone, including the people who would resolve favor items and favor points and accurate win/loss stuff have been pulled onto this.

Heck, this past week, I had the ART team from Elemental working on doing benchmarks for speeing up NAT (That's where we finally concluded that NAT, for P2P is just feasible when there's thousands of players, it would simply require so many NAT servers, located around the world, to make it not totally awful that it wasn't financially logical - we'd be better off just hosting all the traffic which is better anyway).

..

We absolutely do not want to do any more "betas".  The betas don't really solve our problems. We're getting rave emails from people in support today saying how this beta "totally fixes connectivity".  NO, it doesn't. The only reason it seems that way is because there's so fewer people using the beta servers. If you check impulsereactor.dll, it's still the same one from day 0.  So the betas don't really help because it gives us the same false sense of success that the actual open beta had.

The other problem with the beta is that it splits the multiplayer community which is really a problem.  Right now, the Demigod MP community is fragmented. You've got a ton of people on Game Ranger. a Bunch of people on Himachi, others on Demigod release and some on the beta.  And you get some very poor results hwen you play Skirmish or Pantheon or just find games.

..

Now one of the things that I've always been painfully aware of in online games is that you need a critical mass of users to make it work.  With Demigod, we have some plans on how to make sure there's always lots of people to play with once the MP is bullet proof both in terms of connectivity and stat tracking.  As someone who has been ejected from a pantheon game during connection, I know we have to do some QUICK changes to some of this stuff in order for the MP experience to have any integrity.

First, one of the things we did is we have everyone's email address who has updated the game.  When we start the next-gen pantheon with favor points, achievements, favor items, stat tracking, disconnects dealt with and of course bullet proof MP (all of which I expect to be done this week) we will email everyone letting them know where we are at.

Second, the Stardock marketing push will actually begin.  After that day 0 debacle with the MP connectivity being so crummy, I made marketing halt all Demigod marketing efforts. Those will go into high gear probably in the third week of May.

Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo.  We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY.  Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players.  Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?

Fourth, we plan to start formal Demigod tournmants with cash and prizes for the winners.

Fifth, Stardock is working on an update to Impulse Reactor that will allow people to have more control over the types of people people are matched up with.  Think of it being like eHarmony but for gaming. You'll be able to describe the type of gamer you are and the match making system will pick out people for you.  This feature is actually being developed for Elemental but because Demigod uses Impulse Reactor, it'll get that for free.

Sixth, Stardock moderators will soon be introduced into the online community.  This will probably happen in mid-May.  The idea is, if we have forum moderators, why not multiplayer ones? Their job will be to provide enjoyable multiplayer experiences (i.e. good sports, skilled player, etc.) PLUS they will be able to add or subtract in-game karma from players.  People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points.  Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up.  Yes, we know this is controversal.  Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

Thanks everyone!

+897 Karma | 288 Replies
May 2, 2009 8:28:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

SWEET!

I get 50% off on a second Demigod ..now to whom shall I send this gift to .

 

Secondly! AWESOME FROGBOY!

We can see the white light at the end of the tunnel...success is inevitable!

May 2, 2009 8:35:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

"If I knew then what I know now..."

 

May 2, 2009 8:39:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good stuff.  Are these active right this second?

May 2, 2009 8:40:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo. We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY. Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players. Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?

 

Oi.  That's a tough one.  I would only allow access to two DGS.  One on light and one on darkness.  IE:  Rook and TB.   or maybe Regulus and Erebus (that's a better choice).   This should entice them to buy the game to try other DGs.

 

+1 karma!

May 2, 2009 8:40:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Can those of us who don't have any use for a second copy of Demigod get 50% off our first copy of Demigod instead (via 50% refund)?

May 2, 2009 8:42:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Really good to hear!

Huzzahs all around!

(And woo! I'll get someone else into DG asap! Stardock.)

May 2, 2009 8:42:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like this post, everyone word, esepcially the 50% off bit, that will get my friend to jump on the bandwagon.

Also I reckon the limitations on the demo should be that no favor points are recorded, and maybe cut a few heroes off, and maps.

May 2, 2009 8:43:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the update frogboy , for ideas with the demo I think I have a few good ideas.

1) Limited hero chocies maybe like four heros, 2 generals and 2 assasins.

2) Limited amount of items, like they can't purchase items from the artifact store or maybe some items from the normal   shop.

3) No favor point items / be able to earn achivs and get ranked online.

Just some general ideas.

May 2, 2009 8:43:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oooo careful with this 'demo version able to play online' you need to know pirates WILL swarm over this. If you do go this route PLEASE make sure they can't crack it and get free online.

May 2, 2009 8:45:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmmm maybe ill buy my little cousins a present. Wait on secound thought QoT shows way to much cleavage.

May 2, 2009 8:47:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

AWESOME!

liking your online moderators idea

will definately be using that 50% off for my brothers copy

and for the demo, let them play skirmish mode and/or custom games.

 

May 2, 2009 8:52:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great news indeed, congrats are in order! It's especially reassuring you also have some marketing stuff in mind to keep the community going.

 

Ideas for the demo:

1. Do not make it MP only. I have the game and I'm still playing SP just to figure out the basics of each demigod (partly thanks to no manual/game wiki - yes, I know there's one that's getting pretty good, but on official one, where you can update stuff as it gets modified/rebalanced in future patches is what I fancy).

2. Maybe limit players to 2 demigods: 1 assasin and one general. Possibly let the user pick one of each the first time they run the game, so everyone get to try their demigod of choice.

3. Limit access to 1v1 and 2v2 games. Or allow everything and fallback to 1v1 and 2v2 after a set amount if time (30 days?).

4. Limit the total favor points to about 2000, si that one can buy any item, but not all of them.

 

PS: I forgot the password for my modem and I'm in Europe, using an ADSL line

May 2, 2009 8:54:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Wow, that post is just full of awesome.  I'll be using my coupon to buy another copy and give away, and will gladly do so.  Anything to support this great company.  One thing:


Will the 3 connection system (Direct, NAT, Proxy) let the user know which method he's using?  I'll gladly (and easily) foward from my router, but I may have to fight with the software firewall and I'd like to know if it's working or not.  Some sort of port test may make this easier for users too (either in-game, on the Demigod website, or something similar).


I think I'm going to have to pre-order Elemental now.  I don't do beta testing, since I understand it's about testing and not just an excuse to play the game early but it might interesting to help test for a company that has such great communication.

May 2, 2009 8:57:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

[quote who="/b/" reply="9" id="2182396"]Oooo careful with this 'demo version able to play online' you need to know pirates WILL swarm over this. If you do go this route PLEASE make sure they can't crack it and get free online.
[/quote]

Pirates already have free online play, and in fact Frogboy is well aware of that because he made posts in the dev journals condemning them as thieves for doing exactly that.

May 2, 2009 8:57:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting fixmyfavor,
Can those of us who don't have any use for a second copy of Demigod get 50% off our first copy of Demigod instead (via 50% refund)?

Just a stab in the dark, but do you suppose this is meant for Stardock make more sales, not give money back?

Those servers aren't running themselves for free and we don't pay a monthly fee, so... Plus, more people playing is actually doing us a favor.

May 2, 2009 8:58:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

All of it sounds good but the demo part. Maybe if there was a way for the demo player just to player the demo players but I'm just worried that if the demo players get out into the normal player games and know nothing about the game they will be yelled at for been newbs. This might turn them away from the game.

If the demo players can only play with other demo players they will both no nothing yet and gett a chance to learn and enjoy the game.

 

But thats my only concern everything else sounds wonderful. Also is there a way we could give the 50% to a friend or do we have to buy it then give it to them.

May 2, 2009 9:01:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yer, friends comin for sure. Also i rekon 2-4 DGs in the beta, only 1 game mode also and maybe only a few favor items. You can't really restrict maps because then u make the players they're playing against use certain maps.

May 2, 2009 9:05:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

SWEET!!! Yeah that 50% won't really help me lol....umm...can it translate into 50% off the next Sins expansion? of even a free Sins Expansion "credit"?

Thanks again

-Phal

May 2, 2009 9:08:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Wow, just wow. I am in agreement that every word of that post was just awesome and made me all fuzzy inside!

Thank you for your crazy work on getting this fixed and I look forward to the upcoming patches. 

I agree, and I liked demos that allow me to play with people with the full game (see UT)

My ideas for a demo: 

 

  • 1 Map (maybe cataract?)
  • 4 demigods (2 of each type)
  • No Pantheon 
  • No Favor
  • Multi-player (LAN and Internet)
  • Single Player (Custom with AI)

 

Thanks again for your work, I look forward to next week!

May 2, 2009 9:08:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I disagree that the demo should be MP only. There are still people that I know of who plays Single Player games.

The demo should be similar to BETA 1. One map, 3 DGs and the same map for multiplayer.

May 2, 2009 9:09:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting VoodooKing,
I disagree that the demo should be MP only. There are still people that I know of who plays Single Player games.

The demo should be similar to BETA 1. One map, 3 DGs and the same map for multiplayer.

Sounds good to me.

May 2, 2009 9:13:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

All good news Brad, and although even being in Australia i am yet to get any connection issues, i do suffer the odd disconnection, so any and all improvements, even if transparent to me, are awesome as always.

Hoping you read this but on #1,

1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.

Perhaps a pinned post by a Stardockian on exactly how to do this (in the most generic way, all routers are different of course) would be most helpful. There alot of folks who could not do this on their own, but with a step by step guide I'm sure could figure it out.

Would make connectivity so much better if #1 was an option that all users could take advantage of.

Neilo.

Edit - Can i just have a free upgrade from DD to the collectors edition retail box sent to me for free? Ill pay S&H.(worth a try? )

 

May 2, 2009 9:15:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oooo careful with this 'demo version able to play online' you need to know pirates WILL swarm over this. If you do go this route PLEASE make sure they can't crack it and get free online.

Agreed!!! I 2nd this.

May 2, 2009 9:19:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

Hell yeah! I'm totally forcing my friend to buy the game with this coupon! I will be able to allow another to use this coupon right? I'd like to get my roommate playing this game.

People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points. Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up. Yes, we know this is controversal. Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.

Hell yeah! I just wonder how this will work.

 

All of the other stuff is good too.

 

As for the "Multiplayer Demo" idea... Maybe if it was limited to skirmish only... At least then they get the multiplayer experience and will want more. If you give then custom only then it'd just result in them only playing the demo... as for Pantheon: I don't want the Pantheon flooded with a bunch of free accounts.

May 2, 2009 9:20:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Does opening port 6112 to 6200 invovle using the file : impulsereactoroptions.exe in demigod directory?

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