Cancel Beta account and refund

By on October 6, 2008 4:56:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Jinx

Join Date 02/2008
+18

When the game was first announced, I was quite excited about the possibilities the game would offer and signed up for a pre-order.  However, I would now like to cancel that pre-order and get my money back.

I have heard this is not possible.  Why is this the case?  We have not purchesed a product yet.  This is not retail yet, it's beta.  All we've done is set aside some money for a product that will eventually be delivered - whether that promise holds true or not.  I signed up for pre-order with Beta access as a PERK.  I did not pay a full amount just to play a beta game.  And now, I no longer want to have a pre-order account.  

If we can't get our money back, what security do we have that they'll even deliver a proper finished product?  A developer's promise?  Pinky swear? Cross your heart and hope to die?

Remember Hellgate?  That game's retail release was basically beta quality.  People were very upset that what they paid for was a beta product and that they couldn't get their money back.  The only difference is that this product actually is officially 'beta' right now.  Both games took your money for a beta release.

I have never heard of any company not giving money back for pre-orders, so I am a bit incredulous that Stardock, a company which I thought to be very customer oriented, will not give refunds for pre-orders.

I'm not here to bash the game or anything like that.  It's in beta status, I know.  There's bugs, missing assets, and a ton of features yet to be implemented.  I know.  Those aren't the reasons I want a refund, so let's just leave it at that.

 

Now, with all that out of the way, can I get an official word on the following:

a ) whether or not it's possible to get a refund 

b ) if not, why not

c ) is it possible to move the demigod pre-order to another (new) stardock account?

 

Again, I didn't come here start any flames or to put down the game - just here for information.

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October 6, 2008 5:17:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Not that I disagree about not being able to cancel.  If beta's are going to be charged for it should be $10 or $20 which can be used towards the game, not $45.  But..  support@stardock.com is where you'd ask.

Stardock is the exception not the rule when it comes to paying for betas.  All other "preorder for beta"s i've done I could cancel it if it was bad.. like Hellgate: London.

 

When you do the beta thing you have no reviews, you just have previews which are way less detailed and don't say how the game will turn out.  And there is no demo.  There is only word of mouth from people thinking the game might turn out good.  Not sure that's worth $50..

 

I thik the game could turn out nice if it's released in "Spring" or "Summer" not Febuary, which it seems to have been pushed back to "Spring".  But what if it doesn't?  *shrugs*

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October 6, 2008 5:37:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Yeah - Again though, I'm not here to put down the game.  It could very well be great.  However, if they're going to accept full retail payment for a non-retail game... isn't that bad ethics?  Why bother even releasing the game then?  They've already secured payment.  (that was a rhetorical question, btw - obviously not all potential customers are on pre-order...)

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October 6, 2008 8:19:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

email sales@stardock.com for any possible options.

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October 6, 2008 9:23:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I already emailed sales@stardock.com. This is the response:

Because Demigod has already entered beta, we are no longer able to cancel preorders for it. The order has already been processed and you have been given access to the game. We are only able to cancel preorders when the game is not yet available.

Stardock has always been very reliable in matters like this, and it's a surprise to see this kind of response.

Fortunately for me, my doubts about this game were quickly doused as soon as I played the beta. However, I wish good luck to any of you that are requesting a refund.

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October 6, 2008 11:15:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm glad you you enjoy the game and have confidence in it danw.  

However, whether or not you enjoy the game, I find it absurd that they're charging FULL RETAIL PRICE for the beta and offering no refunds.  I've never even heard of a company charging for beta.  That doesn't even make sense - there's no product yet!  I mean, in the worst case scenario, what if they decide to cancel the game?

I contacted sales@stardock.com.  They said they can issue 75% back as the 25% needs to cover a mysterious "processing fee".  I understand that online credit card charges cost a bit of money.  However, I have always been able to get online refunds when I needed them without any additional fee incurred.  

Honestly, if this is the case, I'm terribly dissapointed in Stardock.  For a company that is what it is today because of a strong community and almost grassroots support, it's sad that they would do this.  If this an indication of their business sensibility, I don't see myself buying any stardock products in the future (I know it's probably late to say that, seeing as I already bought all the galciv series, sins, and demigod...)

Hopefully an official word can grace this thread.  Hopefully about giving a 100% refund

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October 6, 2008 11:44:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As per the GBoR and return policy, full refunds are available if you have technical issues preventing you from using a finished product which cannot be resolved.

If you simply decided you don't want it though, we can only offer 75%, as sales noted (their word is as official as anyone's, btw). While in the former case we're potentially at fault and will gladly offer a full refund, in this case, well, we can't guarantee everything will be to everyone's taste; if you're hesitant about a beta, you've the option to wait for word from others rather than jumping on at the first chance. Betas are not free demos. The game at this point is prone to issues and is very subject to change, and if you have some non-technical complaint with the game, you have the opportunity to try and get that changed before release.

Now, if for some reason you feel your case is exceptional and you're not just finding the game isn't what you were hoping for, by all means, explain your case to sales. Exceptions are very unlikely, but in extreme circumstances it's not out of the realm of possibility.

For anyone else reading this, let me be clear: if you're hesitant about plonking down the money for the game before it's done, or are just looking for a demo and don't care to participate in the beta, then by all means, wait before preordering (in the latter case, better to just wait for the post-release free demo). You won't hurt our feelings by waiting to see how it turns out, and you'll save yourself some trouble in the event that you'd have found it to be just completely unlike what you hoped.

 

I mean, in the worst case scenario, what if they decide to cancel the game?

In the incredibly unlikely case that were to happen, I don't personally doubt we'd refund all of the preorders. But that is not the case now, nor is there any reason to believe it ever will be.

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October 7, 2008 1:05:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I kinda agree with Stardock in this situation.  If you can't play the game (your computer is too old) then I can see a full refund.  I understand the game is not out yet but you got a beta (test drive).  Your case just seems to be buyers remorse and I kinda felt that way too.

 

Ever book a flight, car, or cruise?  Some of them, you can't cancel or else there's a penalty.  JetBlue, Canival cruise, Travelocity offers same % of penalty.

 

Lastly, if you paid within 30 days with your visa/mastercard/american express.   You can call your credit card company and file a report.  You might win since beta is a grey area.

 

I mean, in the worst case scenario, what if they decide to cancel the game?

Worst case is they don't release the game and go bankruptcy.   Flagship studios went under and never delivered Mythos.  They don't charge for the betas though, the game was really in alpha.   I think stardock can release demigod now and it will sell better than hellgate london.

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October 7, 2008 1:24:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The fact that you just want to cancel because you dont like the game and want a full refund seems odd to me, as kryo sais betas are not demos, they are to sort out issues before release.

To me it seems that the charge is not for the beta but for reasons of inconvenience and so forth, as Blitz64 said most companies offer a penalty for canceling without propper reason.

I'd hope that we would get our money back if the game wasn't released and i have full confidence that stardock would give it back.

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October 7, 2008 1:56:56 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Blitz64,
Lastly, if you paid within 30 days with your visa/mastercard/american express.   You can call your credit card company and file a report.  You might win since beta is a grey area.

Actually, it is 60 days from the date you received the statement the charge appeared on (at least in the states).

Since your purcahse was a pre-order for Demigod, a game that has not yet been released and you have not received, and Stardock's Return Policy states the reason that they do not give full refunds is because they have demos of their games available before purchase (and Demigod has no such demo), your credit card company should have problem disputing the charge and Stardock really has no leg to stand on that I can see.

The GBoR doesn't even apply; not because it isn't a legal document in any way, but because it applies to retail released games (which Demigod is not).

I like Stardock as a company, but this stance on pre-orders makes no sense to me.

[edit]Oh, and Amazon.com allows you to cancel and order and get your money back so long as you cancel before it ships, so it is not unheard of.[/edit]

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October 7, 2008 3:37:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Whenever you pre-order anything, you are acting on faith. If you don't wish to act on faith, then you shouldn't pre-order. If you could just pre-order then cancel and still get in the beta, then there wouldn't be any point to making the beta pre-orders only.

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October 7, 2008 9:01:21 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Oh, and Amazon.com allows you to cancel and order and get your money back so long as you cancel before it ships, so it is not unheard of
The diffeence here is that Demigod (beta) has shipped to the user in question.  If I pre-order a book from amazon it's unlikely that I can use it before it ships, right? 

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October 7, 2008 9:06:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zubaz,

The diffeence here is that Demigod (beta) has shipped to the user in question.  If I pre-order a book from amazon it's unlikely that I can use it before it ships, right? 

I'm sure if the writer send you his script he also want his money from you. If you like the book or not.

I don't see the problem...

You pre-order and as soon as the beta arrives you pay for it. This was clear from the beginning. If you find it too expensive then don't pre-order...

If you don;t like it, well that's a pity, should have waited for a demo

If you are in need of money, think twice before buying games.

 

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October 7, 2008 10:56:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I understand where you're coming from but this isn't a try before you buy or shareware or a demo. It's a beta program that you signed up for, knew what you were signing up for and Stardock delivered on their part. I would think they would want to discourage people from joining the beta who aren't absolutely commited to the game.

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October 7, 2008 11:19:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting kryo,

If you simply decided you don't want it though, we can only offer 75%, as sales noted (their word is as official as anyone's, btw). While in the former case we're potentially at fault and will gladly offer a full refund, in this case, well, we can't guarantee everything will be to everyone's taste; if you're hesitant about a beta, you've the option to wait for word from others rather than jumping on at the first chance. Betas are not free demos. The game at this point is prone to issues and is very subject to change, and if you have some non-technical complaint with the game, you have the opportunity to try and get that changed before release.

Are you saying you offer refuding 75% of the price?  So you get all but like $12 refunded?

Or.. you're saying you offer 75% of stuff?

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October 7, 2008 11:52:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Got to side with the OP on this - and I was kind of worried about it when they said they would charge in advance. To draw parallels with other products which may offer a beta in advance, usually such a provision comes with some form of preorder pack, which is usually no more than say, 10% of the product (I'm sure there's no literal standard in the industry, but that's not the point), and there is no further obligation to pay. We did not buy the Demigod Beta, we pre-ordered the full Demigod product.

While none of us can be sure why the OP wishes a refund, it is naive and rude of Stardock to suggest it is just because he (she?) doesn't like the unreleased product.

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October 7, 2008 12:18:24 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting TheAnonymousMrP,
We did not buy the Demigod Beta, we pre-ordered the full Demigod product.


 

Word!

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October 7, 2008 12:27:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To draw parallels with other products which may offer a beta in advance, usually such a provision comes with some form of preorder pack, which is usually no more than say, 10% of the product (I'm sure there's no literal standard in the industry, but that's not the point), and there is no further obligation to pay.

With other products, the "beta" is little more than a prerelease demo. Here, it's the real deal, so people looking for a demo aren't going to find what they want. By only granting beta access to people who have committed to the game, it helps to ensure that those people really are interested in helping to guide development with feedback and useful ideas. People who aren't comfortable with that should not preorder.

While none of us can be sure why the OP wishes a refund, it is naive and rude of Stardock to suggest it is just because he (she?) doesn't like the unreleased product.

As noted, if someone feels they have a particularly strong non-technical reason for wanting a refund, they are free to explain the case to sales and ask for an exception to be made. However the OP's comments do seem to indicate that he simply isn't happy with how the game is shaping up at this very early stage, and aren't exactly polite in doing so (comparisons to HGL, etc) at that.

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October 7, 2008 12:38:22 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting stanco,

Quoting TheAnonymousMrP, reply 15We did not buy the Demigod Beta, we pre-ordered the full Demigod product.



 

Word!

Exactly my point. Nowhere on the site does it state that you cannot cancel a pre-order for a full refund. He has not received his pre-order yet; the game has not been released yet.

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October 7, 2008 12:44:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To the person saying that we didn't buy the beta, but preordered the product, that's kind of the point.  Preorders for other games on other companys you can cancel.

We are hoping the game becomes nearly as good as we want it to, and that our feedback will help that.  But what if it turns out horrible?

 

I'm not saying playing the beta has no value, and i'm not saying the game has no chance to turn out fantastic, not at all, but the beta alone doesn't have a $45 value.

I'm just saying we deserve a week after final release to be able to cancel for a partial refund. :/

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October 7, 2008 5:14:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You guys moaning knew what you were paying for right? If not why did you pay the cash lol.

It sounds like you felt you could pay, play the game for a bit, then get a full refund when you were finished. Did you read that this was the case somwhere before you purchased? Sorry but I don't see you have a leg to stand on. When I grabbed my credit card I knew that I was paying for the game, better for worse. I was under no illustion that at some future date I could get a full refund for non technical reasons, why would anyone when this has never been mentioned as far as I know?

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October 7, 2008 5:28:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually, reck, it doesn't really say anywhere that you can't get a refund AFAIK.  At least it isn't very clear.

In my experience every other company gives refunds on preorders.. Yes, ones that give you beta too so you end up getting the beta for free.

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October 7, 2008 5:42:20 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

In my experience every other company gives refunds on preorders.. Yes, ones that give you beta too so you end up getting the beta for free.
Wouldn't you consider that a poor business practice?  What would be the point?

I don't see how a pre-order beta should be treated any differently from the full game.  Can you tell me why you think it should be?

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October 7, 2008 6:09:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the problem lies in the fact that there's no option to allow user to opt-out of the beta enrollment, and it wasn't made clear that no refund was available. If there are clear prior notice then the user could have pre-ordered Demigod from other sites and get full-refund any time you want.

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October 7, 2008 6:17:01 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oh yeah I do think it's dumb business to let people preorder, play in betas, then cancle, and get a partially finished game for free.

I just think it's dumber practce to charge full-game price for a beta.  Plenty of people have given reasons why a beta is not worth $45.

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October 7, 2008 9:10:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zubaz,
Quoting Innociv,

In my experience every other company gives refunds on preorders.. Yes, ones that give you beta too so you end up getting the beta for free.

Wouldn't you consider that a poor business practice?  What would be the point?
I don't see how a pre-order beta should be treated any differently from the full game.  Can you tell me why you think it should be?

It's pretty good business practice actually. By giving the refund they generate goodwill and avoid lawsuits. Would they really want to try and argue that the beta is the finished product? Most commonly for pre-orders nothing (or a token amount) is charged until the product is shipped.

The original poster paid for Demigod, not the Demigod beta. The beta was a bonus for promising to buy Demigod when it came out.

It was probably a mistake to charge when the beta became available.

I'm happy though, I essentially got it for almost half of what it would cost in a store here

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