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Iterating further on Elemental

By Frogboy on October 21, 2013 1:58:21 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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I was playing Galactic Civilizations II last night. I hadn’t played it in a very long time and was stunned by just how much…awesome it has in it.  That awesomeness didn’t come from the original design. It came from years and years of iteration and frankly, labors of love.

The problem I see with Legendary Heroes is that it’s really hard to do iteration like that.  After all, it’s technically Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes. It’s a mouth full.  No one calls GalCiv II “Twilight of the Arnor”. It’s just called GalCiv.

But Elemental got off to such a rocky start that for good or bad, we don’t really call it Elemental anymore.  If the quality and fandom that supports Legendary Heroes could somehow be applied to Elemental that would be great.  But it’s not. It’s barely applied to Fallen Enchantress.

Frankly, from a purely a branding perspective – i.e. the THING that people remember playing, we basically call it Legendary Heroes.  It’s just really hosed up.

Then you have the DLC situation.  The DLC for Legendary Heroes doesn’t just sell well. It sells insanely well. There’s a huge demand for it because the installed base of the game we call Legendary Heroes (but is really Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes) keeps growing.

I know some people don’t care about the name.  But the reality is, the single biggest thing holding LH back is the brand confusion.  I’ve seen people on various forums say that LH is probably the best fantasy 4X that is currently available (though Age of Wonders 3 is looking pretty awesome). 

So we have this great fantasy game that we have the budget to keep iterating on that is artificially held down because no one really knows what to call it.

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Reply #51
Cikomyr
Join Date 06/2005
+11
October 22, 2013 1:58:41 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

"Elemental" does have a nice ring to it. It's very possible Stardock may redeem the franchise with its next itteration. Although you should probably better name the expansions within its naming scheme. It shouldn't have been "Legendary Heroes", but "Heroes of Elemental".

 

"Fallen Enchantress".... well, let's be honest. It was a hail mary pass to salvage the project. I don't think it was a bad idea to.. step away from "Elemental" until you could salvage your goodwill. Marketing doctrines should never be set in stone.

 

The idea of "Elemental Civilizations" is misleading; in my opinion. Well, maybe not MISLEADING, but "civilization" implies a sort of analytic feel that I think is a better fit in Sci-fi than fantasy. Instead, how about more cloudy thematics?

 

Ruins of Elemental (We are, after all, rebuilding amongst the ruins of the world)

Rebirth of Elemental (Our kingdoms are but seeds for a new beginning)

Legends of Elemental

Masters of Elemental (I like this one; because it has a double meaning. First, it calls about those who want to conquer the World of Elemental. But it also points out to the Sovereigns who are Masters of the world's magical system)

Elemental Rebirth (Hmm.. there's probably a good pun to have here, both regarding the story of your setting, the return of Magic and the acknowledgement of Stardock's screwup over its first fantasy game).

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Reply #52
Rhadagast
Join Date 05/2006
+1
October 22, 2013 2:07:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think what he's saying is there's not going to be a full price, full sequel <game name> II, anytime soon if ever, but there is going to be a lot of DLC and expansion type material, and it is a bit of a conundrum on what to prefix them, since the logical naming would now be Fallen Enchantress:<blah>.  However that's just kinda weird, and makes it seem like the whole game revolves around the fallen enchantress, while going with FE:LH:<blah> is just too damn long.

As I ironically type this intro a forum on ElementalGame.com, I'm not sure there is a great solution, but you guys made the decision to run from the Elemental name when you did FE and FE:LH already, so I'd say you're in for a penny so be in for a pound and just stick it out with FE.  I'd setup your fallenenchantress.com domain to be primary as well if doesn't take too much effort.

 

 

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Reply #53
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+54
October 22, 2013 2:28:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NorsemanViking,
reply 42


 

By the way, Stardock must be planning an expansion or follow up since this subject is hurting the Frog's head so much. Good news indeed. Might be one of the other great announcements coming from Stardock this month. They just can't decide what to call the game when they announce.

 

It's possible, but wouldn't that cannabalize another upcoming project- unless that one got cancelled (and I hope it didn't, because I think it could be better than Elemental)

 

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Reply #54
hedetet
Join Date 02/2012
+9
October 22, 2013 2:40:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Another option to consider - long names tend to get abbreviated into acronyms. You can go for Something Something Elemental Something, and pick the Somethings so that you get a catchy acronym.

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Reply #55
smeagolheart
Join Date 06/2008
+12
October 22, 2013 3:56:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cikomyr,
reply 51
Masters of Elemental (I like this one; because it has a double meaning. First, it calls about those who want to conquer the World of Elemental. But it also points out to the Sovereigns who are Masters of the world's magical system)

 

This has my vote.   I'd buy MoE.      

 

The Fallen Enchantress thing has always struck me as a something after the :     As in Elemental:  Fallen Enchantress.   A scenario and not something to name the rest of the series after unless the game is totally redesigned about having a fallen enchantress being front and center stage of the game, which near as I can tell after only owning Legendary Heroes is not the case.  

 

Masters of Elemental I think that sounds about right. 

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Reply #56
Hollow Man
Join Date 03/2006
+13
October 22, 2013 3:59:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Elemental never looked great to me (even though I own all the GalCiv stuff, Demigod, and Sins), so I didn't preorder it. After the debacle, I simply didn't pay in depth attention to whether it was getting any better. I knew it was being reworked, that Derek Paxton was brought in, and it was being given away to those who preordered, but it wasn't until the recent sale that I took the time to REALLY read up on it.

I have to say, the new names (Fallen Enchantress and FE: Legendary Heroes) really confused me. I just assumed you'd call all the games Elemental. So it took a bit to figure out what was what and buy the latest. And I'm not sorry I did...it's a good game, and I even bought the DLC (why not at half price?).

But I think, even though the Elemental name has negativity attached to it, I would've been less perplexed if you had simply kept it. Especially since I actually LIKE that name (I despise the name Fallen Enchantress, and am meh on Legendary Heroes).

But whatever you choose for the future, I'll be paying attention.

-HM

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Reply #57
GFireflyE
Join Date 05/2011
+63
October 22, 2013 5:19:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cikomyr,
reply 51

Masters of Elemental (I like this one; because it has a double meaning. First, it calls about those who want to conquer the World of Elemental. But it also points out to the Sovereigns who are Masters of the world's magical system)

Elemental Rebirth (Hmm.. there's probably a good pun to have here, both regarding the story of your setting, the return of Magic and the acknowledgement of Stardock's screwup over its first fantasy game).

Masters of Elemental is a good one. Get's my +1

Though, I still like my Elemental Reborn better than Elemental Rebirth.

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Reply #58
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
+39
October 22, 2013 6:20:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like how the name "Elemental" sounds, but frankly, there isn't that much of a focus on the various elements (Fire, Air, etc.) except for a bit on the shard/magic side of things. For a game with elements in the title, they should play a much more prominent role. I've never seen this as a major component of the game, though, so I'd ditch that descriptor.

Similarly, do we really need Ceresa to be the focus by keeping the terms "Fallen Enchantress"? It seems too specific about the plot-line, and in many sand box games you don't interact with her at all.

I'm very supportive of a new branding completely. How about using the main continent name- Anthys?

One option would be Anthys Civilizations. Since this game is going to be somewhat similar to Galactic Civilizations, it would keep the parallel between these since they're similar but set in different genres. The only thing I don't like is the difficulty of spelling/pronouncing.

I'd love to see something like-

Galactic Civilizations

Fantastic/Legendary/Anthys Civilizations

[Next game] Civilizations

This is all assuming you want to keep city building/management at the core of the game. If they are TBS games with civilization components, this makes sense.

 

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Reply #59
Mmrnmhrm
Join Date 02/2005
+8
October 22, 2013 6:29:56 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

It's Elemental.

Anyone hating on Elemental still didn't play the series.

You'd call a sequel Elemental II.

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Reply #60
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+1316
October 22, 2013 6:38:48 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Well in the near-term we're going to keep with Elemental: Fallen Enchantress -Legendary Heroes

The sales remain really strong and the DLC is good.

But yea, I have no idea what a sequel would be called.

We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.

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Reply #61
Wintersong
Join Date 07/2006
+235
October 22, 2013 6:58:04 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 60
We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.

Please, have mercy of my bank account.  If those angel like creatures in certain thread are any hint...

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Reply #62
cardinaldirection
Join Date 08/2012
+18
October 22, 2013 7:03:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just change the title on Steam to "Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary Heroes".  Any new expansions become "Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Whatever".  As soon as the next patch goes live (with the FE scenario), discontinue the original FE.

How did we forget the "hyphen"?

 

Edit, just saw this:

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 60

Well in the near-term we're going to keep with Elemental: Fallen Enchantress -Legendary Heroes

The sales remain really strong and the DLC is good.

But yea, I have no idea what a sequel would be called.

We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.

 

Yay, "Elemental" survives!

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Reply #63
chuck1es
Join Date 04/2003
+25
October 22, 2013 7:14:27 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 60

Well in the near-term we're going to keep with Elemental: Fallen Enchantress -Legendary Heroes

The sales remain really strong and the DLC is good.

But yea, I have no idea what a sequel would be called.

We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.

Is it for phones? C'mon, you can tell us...

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Reply #64
Nick-Danger
Join Date 09/2009
+28
October 22, 2013 8:04:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 60
...But yea, I have no idea what a sequel would be called.

We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.
How's about "Beyond Elemental: XX", such as "Beyond Elemental: Ancient Magics" or "Beyond Elemental: When Magic Died" or the like?

No need to pay me, just give me a free copy 

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Reply #65
Kantok
Join Date 10/2007
+67
October 22, 2013 8:06:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 60

We have a team working on a new fantasy game that is in the Elemental universe but it's a very different game.

*cough* RPG *cough*

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Reply #66
xtombo
Join Date 10/2013
0
October 22, 2013 8:51:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well "Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - whatever" is a cool and interesting title. There is a lot of good press out there on the latest versions and reading up on the games roots and evolution from something not so good(apparently) to something great is kind of a selling point in itself. So retaining that history in the title might not be not such a bad thing. I just bought the game recently and although I heard mention of a poor early version most of what I came across was positive on the more recent versions. Anyways the game is awesome, I would say don't worry too much about the name and keep up the good work!

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Reply #67
halmal242
Join Date 05/2008
+18
October 22, 2013 9:05:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I vote for Master(s) of Elemental.  MoE is a good acronym and it sits well within the story/plot that has been developed throughout the series already.  If you were branching the story to something completely different I would vote for the Elemental Rebirth/Reborn as it fits a different direction while still showing where things have come from.

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Reply #68
cardinaldirection
Join Date 08/2012
+18
October 22, 2013 9:28:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Also, rename the DLC's to:

Legendary Lands

Legendary Quests

Legendary Loot

 

So after discontinuing the original FE we'll have:

Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary Heroes

Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary Lands, Quests, Loot..

wait for it...

Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary Next Expansion (Magic, Monsters..)

 

And not mutually exclusive:

Elemental: RPG

and

Elemental: Empire of Sorcery, or whatever

 

 

I'm not sure titles can be changed on Steam?

 

 

Don't even migrate to an "'Elemental 2'nd iteration".  Just expand on the positive publicity that the current Elemental universe is gaining, and keep it as a prefix moniker to remind everybody of the uphill struggle that you honorably overcame.  The "Elemental" name now stands for more than just a game, it also stands for integrity in the industry.  You did what Ubisoft didn't have the cojones to.  This sentiment will only grow with time, especially if you keep supporting the games righteously.

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Reply #69
RogueCaptain
Join Date 10/2007
+7
October 23, 2013 12:24:22 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The blockbuster SKYRIM did not get marketed as The Elder Scrolls.  Notice how the name change helped sales with new customers while fully retaining the old ones at the same time.

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Reply #70
Kantok
Join Date 10/2007
+67
October 23, 2013 6:27:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RogueCaptain,
reply 69

The blockbuster SKYRIM did not get marketed as The Elder Scrolls.  Notice how the name change helped sales with new customers while fully retaining the old ones at the same time.

Correlation does NOT imply causation.  

Skyrim sold so well because it was  AAA title, was hugely marketed and it found the perfect blend of deep RPG mechanics, open world exploration and accessibility.  

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Reply #71
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+1316
October 23, 2013 8:49:29 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

On Steam it is referred to as The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim I think.

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Reply #72
Kantok
Join Date 10/2007
+67
October 23, 2013 9:04:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 71

On Steam it is referred to as The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim I think.

It is everywhere.  Just watched the original teaser video (which is still awesome).  The fade out at the end also calls it The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and refers you to the game's website:  www.elderscrolls.com

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Reply #73
XWerewolfX
Join Date 02/2006
+22
October 23, 2013 9:29:18 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Dude, embrace Elemental. You've owned it. You've made it better. It can be a AAA title, now. Stop trying to call it anything else. 

 

Elemental: Legendary Heroes. Change that name. 

 

And while you're at it, announce another expansion to tide me over until GC3 comes out! Like those high res "mods" you had in the works

+1
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Reply #74
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+54
October 23, 2013 10:56:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Masters of Elemental sounds like the best idea so far.

 

 

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Reply #75
MarvinKosh
Join Date 08/2005
+81
October 23, 2013 11:35:33 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I guess that Masters of Elemental works if the next exciting epistle has to do with new masters trying to overthrow your rule.

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