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DG Strategy – Death by Towers

By on June 8, 2011 10:57:20 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Quick disclaimer:  as I think of useful tips, I’m going to start writing up some articles.  Each article will focus on a particular topic or game play element.  The majority of these tips will likely be things that experienced players already know.  I welcome any additional feedback on any of the tips and I’m happy to update any OP if you have something useful to add to the topic.  Each thread will be originally posted in the Demigod general forum (at least for a bit) and then moved to the DG strategy forums.

Topic of the day:  Death by towers

Being killed by structures is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it can often be the best strategy. Ever get yourself into a situation where you know you are going to be killed? Towers might be the way out. Feel pretty confident that you can get a kill but odds are you will die as well? Towers can be the solution here as well.

The first thing you need to understand for any of this to make any sense is how a kill works in Demigod. Money is awarded for assists (eg you helped in the combat) and for kills (you made the final hit that killed a Demigod). You get more money (or bounty) for making the final killing hit and you get less money for an assist. The main thing to keep in mind is that whoever or whatever makes that killing shot gets the most money. You’ll notice I said whatever. Whatever could be tower, a fortress, or the creeps. You’ll also notice that towers, fortresses, and creeps do not get any money if they get that final killing hit. Hopefully you can see where this is going. I’ll provide a few examples below.

Defensive death by towers

This example is generally not something you want to have to do, but it could very well be the best decision.

Scenario 1: I’m in a situation where I’m trying to capture an enemy portal on the HP side of the map and I suddenly see all 3 on the other team running at me from the HP flag. I have no TP scroll and I don’t believe my teammates are going to magically pop in and save me. I decide that escape won’t be possible and that the odds of me living are slim, I’ll likely immediately beeline for the enemies towers near the citadel BEFORE any of those enemy dgs get close enough to hit me.  If I have a sigil, I won’t use it. If I manage to get killed by those towers without any dg attacking me, then no one gets any money – this helps my team a lot, of course, as if I stayed and fought, I’d have given the other team money for a kill and money for 2 assists. Of course, the downside is that I’m dead, but I didn’t cost the team any money AND more than likely their entire team is out of position from trying to chase me down.

  • Summary - if there is no way out, trying to suicide in towers is generally a good move

Scenario 2: I’m again trying to capture a portal. I just fought and killed one of the enemy Demigods. I had to use a sigil during the combat and my hp will be extremely low as soon as that sigil drops. An oak and a sedna are approaching me and I don’t think I have a chance in hell to get a TP off before I’m interrupted by silence or pent. I again beeline for the towers and attempt to get killed by them before either enemy dg can catch up to me.

  • Summary - be smart and avoid confrontation if there is no hope for escape or help from your teammates.  It's better to die to a tower than give up a kill and an assist to the enemy team.

Anyway, you’ll notice in both of those scenarios, its pretty much a strategy to use when the crap hits the fan. If all goes well, you won’t have to use a strategy like this. But if you are in a similar situation, you should quickly decide if you would be better off getting killed in the towers instead of by the enemy. Sure, you die, but mid/late game, your death can mean a lot of money for the enemy. If they get a kill and that money… well… that’s not good.

Scenario 3 (thx darkliath!):  I am Erebus on sigil taking enemy portal. Was too confident, did not succeed and missed enemy sedna, oak and beast porting in. They all damage me a bit and I get close to some nearby towers or even to towers near citadel in mid (depends on mana, being silenced or not already and batswarm). If I died to towers now, I'd give three assists, which are no good. So I go into mist (try not to be silenced). Wait there 15 seconds (If I remember correctly for their hits to stop being assists) they, of course might wait for me there, but when sigil rans out I'd be with extremely low hp. Then I try to get out of mist so, that as less as possible enemies would damage me. In perfect situation tower would kill me and none would get assist, but beast with ooze probably would damage me, so I'd give one assist.

  • If you are caught in a situation when playing as erebus and you are sure to die, consider going into mist form in the towers.  Yes, you will die, but its possible you will avoid giving the enemy team a kill (and you'll likely distract their team while you are misted - eg they will wait around or near you for however long you are misted).  

Offensive death by towers

Now, this is what you see happen more often in games with experienced players, generally early on in the game (though it could happen at any time). The basic premise is that you stick around long enough because you believe you will get a kill AND you pursue an enemy into the towers. Now, depending on the items you have, etc, both of you will probably be dead. But what matters the most is who got the kill. If I can kill an enemy first and then die second (by a tower), I can deny the dg I killed any gold for my death and collect gold from him. Keeping that in mind, if you feel confident you will be able to kill your enemy before you die, its good to chase them into the towers. Let me give you a few common examples.

Scenario 1: It’s a 3v3 game and I’m playing ub. I’m currently fighting a 1v1 against an enemy ub on the mana flag. We go back and forth a bit, but now I’m convinced I’ve got a kill locked if I press the ub. My enemy turns to flee towards the tower. I give chase. Realizing that I’m going to chase him down, the enemy stops by the tower and turns to try to fight me (even though it’s a lost cause – maybe one of his teammates will tp in). I get the kill and then die to a tower immediately after. Win.  I go the money for the kill and the enemy ub got nothing.  You should be aware, though, that if there is a monk or minion nearby from another dg that scores a hit on you shortly before you die, that player will get an assist as well (thx dark!)

  • Summary - learn when to go for the jugular and press for a kill in towers!  As long as you get the kill, its almost always acceptable to take a death.

Scenario 2: Let’s use the same setup as scenario 1. Only this time, an enemy dg starts to tp in to assist his teammate. I get the kill, but realizing there’s a chance I’ll die to the enemy instead of the tower, I beeline towards the enemy gold flag (away from the dg teleporting in) to avoid that dg hitting me and then die to the towers. If the enemy had caught me, then we essentially made a 1 kill for 1 kill trade (eg not quite as good as getting a kill and dying to a tower).

  • Summary - Be aggressive when pushing for kills you are confident you can get.  Be willing to take a tower death if you have no out available to you.  Remember - at the end of the day, the person with the most money has the best equipment.

Anyway, with offensive tower kills, at least early, its VERY important to have a decent idea of whether or not your enemy has a pot, etc. Overpursuing for a kill in towers will often mean that you die unless you a plan everything well and really know what to expect.

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June 8, 2011 10:57:25 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

NT

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June 8, 2011 1:07:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

good points, I rarely see by any players. I would add a bullet point list after every paragraph to capture what you just talked about (like a summary).

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June 8, 2011 1:42:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have written a short similar version of this in my Torch Bearer guide. In addition, not only towers can save you from giving gold. So can giants, soldiers and any other troops, which are not summons of any demigod. Same can do Finger of God, which I hate to get just because of that.

Also a note. summonable minions damage counts as assist, so if there is a monk + ub vs a monk + ub, the ub running into towers after killing the other one, would probably give an assist to monk owner.

Some funny scenario. I am Erebus on sigil taking enemy portal. Was too confident, did not succeed and missed enemy sedna, oak and beast porting in. They all damage me a bit and I get close to some nearby towers or even to towers near citadel in mid (depends on mana, being silenced or not already and batswarm). If I died to towers now, I'd give three assists, which are no good. So I go into mist (try not to be silenced). Wait there 15 seconds (If I remember correctly for their hits to stop being assists) they, of course might wait for me there, but when sigil rans out I'd be with extremely low hp. Then I try to get out of mist so, that as less as possible enemies would damage me. In perfect situation tower would kill me and none would get assist, but beast with ooze probably would damage me, so I'd give one assist.

This one depends on luck, etc, but still

Edited. Also... There is no good compilation of strategies, I think, or those are just outdated. So... Wouldn't it be a good idea to make a compilation of good strategy topics (Hedgie's Sedna guide, Zex's Builds guide, etc)? Because I played with someone not that long ago, who said that plays according to some strategy guide, but it was... not great I guess...

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June 8, 2011 2:07:07 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Darkliath,
Also a note. summonable minions damage counts as assist, so if there is a monk + ub vs a monk + ub, the ub running into towers after killing the other one, would probably give an assist to monk owner.

ah - good point.  I'll see about crowbarring that into the op.

If you have the time and feel like it dark, you can create an updated strategy compilation thread and I can sticky it in the strat forums.  I don't think I'm going to tackle that one atm.

updated based on both of your feedback.  Thanks!

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June 8, 2011 2:59:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Still being fairly new my studies of the strategy articles are not too long ago. Meanwhile I dont play a single build from there anymore. All my builds are more or less copies of really good players I had replays of. So actually I think having a replay of someone who really knows what he is doing with a DG is much better than a strat article of someone you dont have any idea how good he is.

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June 8, 2011 3:06:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

So actually I think having a replay of someone who really knows what he is doing with a DG is much better than a strat article of someone you dont have any idea how good he is.

Agreed - the ideal situation would be a writeup with current builds from solid players along with some replays.

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June 8, 2011 3:59:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,
Agreed - the ideal situation would be a writeup with current builds from solid players along with some replays.

Hmm... This would be a tough one... And I looked over many guides and yeah... Not many have replays...

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June 8, 2011 4:21:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Yeah - that's just what I'm thinking if anyone developed new builds, etc.  Just pie in the sky. 

With regards to creating a new thread that links to good strats, builds, etc, that's not what I was referring to dark.  That new thread would still be useful, but I think the best sort of build guide includes replays of it in action. To be clear, master strategy thread with links is not equal to build guide with replays.

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June 8, 2011 8:46:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

new article tomorrow... after that, we see.

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June 9, 2011 1:47:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

1 other death type - suicide. I've been lucky enough to deny a kill or assist when I'm UB with ooze. I'm living on a sigil and benn ganked hard, start to run, enemy is def gonna kill me. I leave ooze on in the hope beast suicided as sigil runs out. Better if u got orb of defiance for this. I hit orb as my health is dammed to hell. Sigil has some few seconds left and I been spat on. Orb prevents the damage long enough for sig to run out and then when orb is off there's a 50% chance either ooze will kill u or spit.

Suicide death by ooze pays zip.

 

Although to get in this situation you've gotta make an over agressive move or not be paying much attention or plain having a bad day like I sometimes do lol.

 

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June 9, 2011 4:47:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ooze suicide doesnt work anymore with current uberfix.

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June 9, 2011 5:35:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Running_Lukas,
Suicide death by ooze pays zip.

This is one of the reasons why it's so unfair. It is possible for an over aggressive ub to jump into enemy towers, be ganked by 5 players and give them all zero gold just because of this ooze suicide. At least uberfix fixes this problem...

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June 9, 2011 7:28:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I didn't know it had been removed with uberfix. I actually think its not unfair.... or any more unfair than erebus using mist in the same way to deny a kill using enemy tower. This is just a possibility for UB to use a skill in a different way. In death situations there's a few DG's that have a unique 'trick' or advantage.

For example DA using warp strike to chase/escape.

Rook has health pots that damage u (towers + trasfer), and his towers remain up even after death, giving his teammates an easy opportunity for tele in to clean up the limping DG he left behind. Plus rook can eat ally towers for health too. We don't see UB grasping a teammate for a bit of a snack (Unfair, please add this in next uberfix I WANT to grasp my teammates) ... Actually I think DA swap should include ally DG too to pull your mate out when he's in trouble.

Sedna has yetis. .. well the bitch rarely dies so she's N/A in this discussion.

Oak...shield TP escape.

Ereb as already discussed - mist in the hope for a kill/assist deny.

 

Actually a fix that should happen IMHO is oculus using orb of defiance does not turn silver - so the enemy keeps attacking and casting not knowing they're hitting stone.

 

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June 9, 2011 8:10:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If he suicided denying a kill but giving assists, I would agree that it's fair. Denying all assists also? - no way it's fair a tiny bit. Everyone you mentioned can be stopped at least to some way by silencing, stunning, timing attacks well. Ub suicide has high chance to work even with all of those. Do you like being regulus, sniping ub who just lost his sigil buff and not getting a kill nor anyone getting assists, because of his suicide? Why can't I suicide like that with every demigod then? I'd do that all the time to prevent kills + assists. If there weren't sigils. It wouldn't be such a huge problem, as dropping enemy health to 50 or below is not easy without killing him. Just wait for final hit to deal a bit more damage if it's so close to 0 health. BUT as there are sigils in this game, he does often drop to even 1 health thus easily letting him suicide.

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June 9, 2011 8:31:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, it seems to me, that suicide is an abuse of skill mechanics and need to be fixed.

 

Why am I, as a DG of light, not rewarded if that unclean bug of dark forces followed me into the towers?

If the forces of light get the kill, every DG from the forces of light should be given an reward (surely not as much as for assists or kills, but it should push the opposing team if I commit suicide).

 

 

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June 9, 2011 12:09:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I tend to agree with Dark on the UB topic but seriously, how often does that happen? The only real unfair point here is that right after the sigil runs out the health most likely drops to 1 (unless he is or has been at the crystal in which case we have no discussion) and then ooze kills him. The -40 of ooze in normal circumstances should rarely be the killing blow but after sigil it is most probably the first damage that hits the UB. But for that the UB needed to stay in the battle or being chased by someone. Personally I tend to leave the battle after I have taken a sigil or better shortly before it runs out and how often did you chase an UB, unless you are an UB yourself?

 

It often happens to me though when I am an UB myself and forgot that there is no uberfix on, I walk back to the crystal and die after sigil runs out, no one chasing me though. So I think the suicide story is more of a disadvantage for the UB than an advantage.

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June 9, 2011 4:12:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you can suicide with ueberfix as well. if your sigil drops in the instant moment when ooze procs

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June 9, 2011 4:37:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

We discussed the crap out of ub suicides in the uberfix thread.  If you want modders take and our opinion on what we believe was intended by the developers (eg uberfix is intended only to be bug fixes), you can take a look over there if you like - though feel free to continue discussing here, of course.

A couple quick points from that discussion.  Start the game, get ooze, move away from the crystal.  Don't get any items (quick side note - this is very boring to do).  Turn on ooze.  Watch what happens.  You don't die because ooze turns off before it would kill you (eg by developer design, ooze by itself doesn't kill you outside of a combat).  Suicide is when you kill yourself...

Other points, a suicide generates no revenue for anyone. 

The code itself seems to be flawed at high levels of ooze (if I remember right).

Last point - outside of the method zen mentioned (which is actually a good tip and fits in this discussion imo), you cannot use an ooze suicide consistently.  Eg, I don't care how good you claim you are, in the base game, it turns off once you reach a certain threshold... and its a crazy low threshold - like you need to take just enough damage to almost kill you and then have the ooze hit you 1 more time.  Obviously, it happens in the base game, but I challenge you to find me anyone that can intentionally pull it off even 30% of the time without using the method zen described.  eg - it's not a skill based moved - its dumb luck that grants an additional bonus to an already strong character.

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June 19, 2011 12:15:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Moved to strategy forum

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December 17, 2011 6:35:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

new player bump

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