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Demigod: What would you do?

By on April 7, 2011 2:55:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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This month marks the two year anniversary of Demigod's initial release. It's time to start thinking about its future.

If you had your way, what would you do with Demigod?

For example: For a Demgiod v1.5, what key tweaks would you do in that?

For a Demigod expansion, what would you do in that?

For a Demigod sequel, what would you do in that?

We'd like to hear how you guys would like to see Demigod evolve in the future.

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April 8, 2011 5:03:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hi, I haven't played in about a year and am actually amazed there's still people here.

I played from launch and played the living shit outta this game until I got sick of the ragey community and game wait times. The ragey people I think were because of the game wait times. If you got a game going and your teammate was a dick, you got mad at the TIME wasted getting the game going.

 

Things to fix... hmm, I would buy a demigod 2, probably in blind faith too. I would never come back and play any Demigod 1.whatever.

 

What I'm saying is rather than trying to put the egg back into the shell, get a fresh egg. Remake the game. Remake it COMPLETELY. But for heaven's sake CONNECTIVITY was the death of the first, so get that RIGHT.

I know nothing about multiplayer gaming, but recently was playing a lot of Relic's Company of Heroes Online.(which they have stupidly abandoned). I don't know how they did it, but there was vitually no connectivity issues. Matchmaking was great, and I NEVER experienced lag or drops or anything. People NEVER rage quit, because there were rewards (unit upgrade currency) for sticking around when you lose. I usually played 4v4 games and there were a shipload more units on screen than in DG.

Another point: zoom. Surely you could make the game test the graphics refresh rate and limit the ZOOM to avoid lag from people's graphics.... or simply upon installation have a graphics test and if their pc is too slow prevent the install.

For hosts allow a ping limit to be set.

Less pretty maps. Forget the mist,fog,water cascades, unnessesary prettyness. Gameplay is paramount. Visuals are secondary.

 

Make reward games (automatch) that give some kind of bonus for the stayers. Perhaps some game currency that allows small unit tweeks in the lobby.

 

Some ideas

(Lukas_A_79 was my old profile)

 

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April 8, 2011 5:04:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oh... or maybe you guys could offer the DG franchise for another developer to take up??

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April 8, 2011 10:04:52 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I say shoot for DG 2, simply because a lot of DG's problems are things you can't really fix this late in the game.

All the ideas that have already been mentioned about connectivity and mod tools are a priority. CONNECTION ISSUES should be the first thing you address. I would say next you should look at career balance and map design, there were some awesome maps, but everyone always played Cataract.

Thats all the practical stuff and important stuff, now for some full on dreaming on my part:

Why not implement a story mode? Who actually won the last tournament and is now the High Father? How has the world changed because this being has taken over? Why is there a new tournament going on if there is already a High Father? One of the things I loved about Demigod was the setting and the character design (The Oak still has the coolest backstory ever!). Maybe you could enhance the setting by fleshing it out some with more stories.

That would be pretty cool. You could still split the forces into Darkness and Light like before, only maybe this time, as you progress through the single player tournament rankings with one character, the maps and creeps get progressively darker and evil looking or lighter and angelic looking to represent your champion's victories. It doesn't actually have to do anything, it could all be purely cosmetic, but it would enhance the style, which is something most DOTA style games just don't have that much of.  

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April 8, 2011 12:30:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,

For Demigod 2:

If I was making Demigod 2, I'd consider the free to play model.  That would keep the community levels high and give you the opportunity for additional revenue through microtransactions.  I have no objections to the standard model, but if it was free to play, we'd see a substantial amount of support and patches, etc, as long as its profitable

Demigod 1 is a lost cause. The only answer to a future of Demigod is a full sequel that's probably free to play. 

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the RTS part that was taken out of Demigod put back in. Do this for Demigod 2. Its WAY cooler than what Demigod turned into, not that Demigod wasn't great. Anyone ever wonder why Erebus's minions are rolly? They were supposed to be fired out of catapults by CASTLES that were on the map. Each Demigod was originally supposed to have a castle, and each map was designed for it. Oak was supposed to have a static aura that raised his spirits, but that was changed into a skill. Each Demigod was supposed to have their own upgradeable castle. That's why there's a random shop to buy minions from. That's why the maps are so big.

I probably shouldn't go into why this stuff was taken out >.>

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April 8, 2011 12:37:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Also a single player storyline for the DG sequel would be amazing when I bought the game i was very disappointed that it only ha the arna settup.  The stories behind the DGs are great I would really like to play through them.  And also i would hire Exxcentric to help with the development .

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April 8, 2011 1:53:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Polynomial,
Demigod 1 is a lost cause. The only answer to a future of Demigod is a full sequel that's probably free to play.
i concur 

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April 8, 2011 2:02:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Polynomial,

The only answer to a future of Demigod is a full sequel that's probably free to play. 

Free to play is an option but not a necessity. Demigod doesn't have to follow  League of Legend's example. I can see a demigod sequal being successful without it being free.

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April 8, 2011 2:50:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

Quoting Polynomial, reply 29
The only answer to a future of Demigod is a full sequel that's probably free to play. 


Free to play is an option but not a necessity. Demigod doesn't have to follow  League of Legend's example. I can see a demigod sequal being successful without it being free.
'

Free = more updates due to microtranscations. A company becomes invested in their product when their primary means of revenue is from microtransactions. We get to buy the stuff we want, the company still makes profit.

LoL is way more successful than HoN because of its free to play model.

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April 8, 2011 3:28:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm a pretty big fan of the free to play model as well.  I think that would probably result in additional profits, but would also require a staff or portion of a staff that stays dedicated to the one game (which I like, of course).  I'd pick up dg2 in either format, though.

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April 8, 2011 3:30:14 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The only way to fix an anemic community is with extreme change (sequel, free to play, etc.). Patches and expansions will have little impact, as the community is simply too small.

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April 8, 2011 4:11:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The issue with being free is that a game cost a lot to put out. If there is no box to buy or a download to charge people for they are losing a lot of money off the top. Microtransaction will take longer to make this cost up before it turns into revenue. LoL has outdated graphics and game mechanics. DG is a higher end game in the genre defined by DoTa, LoL, and HoN. I am certain that DG took more money to make then any of these other games.

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April 8, 2011 6:34:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
If we had to do the networking over again we would probably use the full Impulse::Reactor setup like we did with Elemental.  With Demigod, we licensed a NAT facilitator which was eventually modded to what we have today.

In that system, what happens is that when a person "hosts" the game, a nearby CDN spawns a virtual machine running a server that everyone connects to. Hence, no NAT, no lag, no connectivity. You're never interacting with other players directly and if someone is running slow, too bad for them, doesn't affect others.

This is the biggest problem with GPG's moho engine - it is simply not good at multiplayer connectivity, because it's full P2P.  This means more lag due to the sim transmission delay, even more lag if any one player has a slow connection OR a slow computer, increased difficulty in connecting for each player in a game who is behind a NAT, both intentional and accidental desyncs, high vulnerability to exploits, and absolutely no capability for re-joining a game in progress.

That's a long list of problems, and absolutely none of these things can be completely fixed with an expansion or an update, as they're all fundamental disadvantages of a P2P multiplayer model, and moho is written from the ground up to do P2P multiplayer.  This could only be changed with a total rewrite of the engine; an engine written over the course of 3+ years by people who no longer work at GPG.  Not likely to happen.

So, yeah, forget Demigod 1.  And if you do a sequel, don't have GPG make it.  As much as I like GPG and want to see them succeed, their current engine absolutely blows for a fast-paced 8+ player game like Demigod.

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April 8, 2011 11:05:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Demigod's been really fun experience for my gaming group. Because of all the press about the bumpy launch, my friends and I got into it later than most. We play a few matches every week.

We don't play the ladders or PvP, so I don't have much to say about those topics. We play casual co-op -- humans vs. AI teams.

My top choices for something like an expansion or DLC would be:

1. More maps. (Or release the tools so that users can make our own maps.)

2. More Demigods. How about a giant skeleton king, a land-based octopus-type creature, a scorpion or spider lord, or even a whirling tornado of destruction! Rar!!

3. Assignable AI for computer-controlled Demigods. It'd be great to select a Demigod and then apply an AI profile to their gameplay.

4. Fix the pathfinding snags where Demigods get caught on geometry. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Crucible.)

 

Other changes that would be welcome for a more feature-packed update:

- Better visibility of smaller Demigods in crowded battles. We've had many a time where one of our Demigods goes down because we couldn't tell that we were fighting two enemies at once.

- More intuitive controls for minion management when playing a general would be most welcome. We're always struggling to have the correct unit(s) selected (or not selected, as the case may be).

- A real-time updated display of currently summoned minions would be very helpful.(Unless I missed it's presence on the UI somewhere?)

- It'd be helpful to have a choice in the Options menu to pause the game while still being able to use the store menu. That probably seems silly to PvPers, but to my co-op group, it'd be most welcome. The enemy AI always knows exactly what it wants to buy and can do it instantaneously. We would prefer to have a pause where we can huddle up and plan our upgrades and gear.

 

For Demigod 2, a few ideas...

- Instead of populating the map in advance with towers, have an option to allow players to place defenses on the map by choosing from a pool of structures to defend their Citadel. Sneak a bit of the Tower Defense mechanic back into the player hands if they want to use it.

- Multi-level maps. Ramps, underpasses, etc.

- Increased level cap with extended Demigod trees for those truly "epic" matches that go the distance.

- Give towers their own upgrade paths, and the ability to upgrade specific towers at the Citadel or from a new "war room" building. Consider building a few new Demigods who could be useful as "Citadel guardians" who watch the home front and coordinate upgrades to all defenses.

- Weather/environmental elements that can actually affect battles.

- Maps with some paths segments that are destructible, but can be rebuilt. Tie the destruction to a negative effect (e.g. gold loss) and the re-build to a positive effect (xp or gold bonus) so that the defensive maneuver of destroying a path has a consequence and the enemy will be well-rewarded if they rebuild. In the meantime, though, forces will have to take an alternate route.

- Better net connectivity, ability to join or re-join games in progress, etc. This has all been mentioned already in other comments.

- Shift-click to cue up waypoints for Demigod or minion movement.

- Add an optional tithe system where players can set a percentage of all their earned gold to go to the Citadel treasury (which again, could be a new building or part of the existing Citadel). Upgrades to the Citadel can still be initiated by any team member, but the upgrades are paid out of the treasury funds.

Hope you find some of this helpful or at least entertaining. 

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April 9, 2011 12:17:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great feedback ninjas.  +1

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April 9, 2011 1:30:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As someone that is still playing the game, I'd love to see some fan service by way of 1 more patch.  Then, shift gears and look to the future methinks. 

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April 9, 2011 3:00:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Give cataract towers 12000 hp and more range like gunners have
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April 9, 2011 4:57:02 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'd go for AI fixes.  I play LAN play with my brother when hes home and its stupid how often we notice AI generals literally doing nothing.

I've hesitated on installing the mods, because generally I don't mod anything.

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April 9, 2011 9:13:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

(Bad eng) Nobody has mentioned about items - basically is bought hp/armor & mana. It is necessary to process system of items. It is more than bonuses for speed of attack, dmg or to critchance. Now you buy only artifacts in cost 2000, then pair of artifacts for 3000-10000 (orb&boots) and then 2 superitems. In LoL or HoN good itemsystem. More than the worthy artifacts defining style of game: dmger, tank, support...

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April 9, 2011 11:17:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Savyg,
I'd go for AI fixes.  I play LAN play with my brother when hes home and its stupid how often we notice AI generals literally doing nothing.

I've hesitated on installing the mods, because generally I don't mod anything.

There's really no reason not to in this case.  Demigod does have a good mod manager (even if it lacks autodownload capability), and having the mods doesn't prevent you from joining unmodded games.  And they're pretty tiny downloads.  The Enhanced AI mod completely transforms the skirmish / coop-multiplayer experience more than anything else could, and it's even nice to have in full multiplayer games in case someone drops.

Quoting Dark_Satana,
(Bad eng) Nobody has mentioned about items - basically is bought hp/armor & mana. It is necessary to process system of items. It is more than bonuses for speed of attack, dmg or to critchance. Now you buy only artifacts in cost 2000, then pair of artifacts for 3000-10000 (orb&boots) and then 2 superitems. In LoL or HoN good itemsystem. More than the worthy artifacts defining style of game: dmger, tank, support...

Yes, Demigod's item balance is bad.  Really bad.  It's unfortunate, since other than multiplayer connectivity and demigod balance (which is relatively good, or at least ok), item balance is the most important part of this style of game.

 

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April 10, 2011 6:17:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i. Demigod licence cannot be a GPG property any longer. Stardock is the soul of this software.

ii. Demigod 1.5 could be good, but i think it would be a waste of time. You need a fresh start with a DG II.

iii. A better sense of " what is important " :

1. Connectivity : "You want to play with your friends without having to open your router, you can."

2. Matchmaking : "You want to play, play now against opposants matching your level/league/skill." Add more than one ladder (SCII style).

3. Accessibility  : a. on a business level, the free to play IS the right solution for an online game at this time. b. regarding system requirements, add a lower resolution option.

4. Polishing and working on a good beta : an online game cannot be excellent without a good and closed betatesting.

5. Balance  : a. the items need a huge revamp, b. You sould expand the tactical posssibilities regarding the Citadel defense

vi. Keeping your dna : you already gave MOBA gaming some fresh air with your original ideas, go on and develop them : flag control is giving a rich gameplay, it should be kept and improved and the Citadel management could be more complex.  You might also wanna spice up the all thing with some looting or with a campaign mode like in Battle for middle earth II or Shogun II)

PS : Even if you go for the free to play option, you might consider adding some DLCs. League of legend is a very good product with a nice concept but people always enjoy a little extra.

 

 

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April 10, 2011 11:17:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Demigod 1 is a lost cause. Too many things to fix, too many things to add.

As for Demigod 2...
What we NEED (ie what we should expect for a 2012-13 multiplayer game) :
-Observer mode
-Replay mode
-Matchmaking system (solo/team, with friends or not)
-Friend list
-in-game chat
-Ladder
-Game reconnection (if you got disconnected or crash, you can reconnect)
-Re-bindable hotkeys (..., seriously, we need that )

And for a moba game :
-new content on a regular basis (every month or 2, at least). So yes, perhaps a free2play is the best option, or a very low game price. Need to add some kind of referral system with rewards.

What i want :
-the game need to be client-server based. Can't trust players to open their ports/stop dl porn or whatever.
-dramatically increase the speed of demigods, the game is way too slow. Early-mid game is way too passive.
-stats tracking. Kills/flags captured/gold earned/damage dealt... It's always fun to have those and you can see where you are good at, where your teamates are good, and where you suck (and therefore can improve).
-new item system. Right now it's not balanced and doesnt make any sense. I am a big fan of LoL's system : some items are unique and you cant stack them, you have attack damage items (for auto-attack) AND ability power items (for spells), you can craft more powerfull items from others...
-more items
-low hardware requirement
-draft mode (but we need enough demigods to be viable)


What i love about Demigod :
-citadel upgrades and war rank
-skill tree with multiple paths (really awesome but can be improved)
-Torch Bearer, we need him!!
-graphics, design, animations (except the last two. I hate them)
-no need to last hit those freaking minions (ie gold system)
-artifact shop with a control flag
-favor items (but they need to be balanced)
-soundtrack. If you dont hire the same guy for the sequel, i'm gonna be fucking angry. Not joking.
-the balance between demigods (items power) and minions (citadel upgrades). Even if your ennemies are feeded, you can still win thanks to your minions.

What i dislike :
-maps : their is no lane concept like in other dota games, really hard to gank (need less towers, more "neutral" zone, perhaps some small secondary lanes), too much pve.
-flag control : good idea but bad execution. Their is no enough fight for their control, it's easier to just wait and cap them when their is nobody around. Boring gameplay. Crucible is the only map where it's almost working.
-generals (because of the minions; too much micro, hard to control effectively and balance issues). Replace them by a regular assassin with only one minion which can be spawned under certain circonstance; it would be way more fun and strategic.

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April 10, 2011 1:40:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

 

 

Hmmm.......Brad if this project (DG 2 etc.) gets the "green light"......I can't help with gameplay etc. suggestions but I could always lend a hand with some networking/connectivity consulting? 

 

 

EDIT:  Well ok........the one suggestion (keeping in mind it's a suggestion from a relative "noob") would be as posted above to lose the Assassin/General seperation and make them all Assassins because afterall (in my mind anyway) the demigods were all supposed to be huge powerful beings relying on their own skills and not "armies" of bots etc.)  Oh and personally.......ROOK could have been made almost twice his current size.  I would have loved that! 

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April 10, 2011 3:43:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting the_Monk,
ROOK could have been made almost twice his current size. I would have loved that!
YES!!!

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April 10, 2011 7:04:07 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How bout not making something that blocks the view for using shield and heal twice as blocky.

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April 10, 2011 9:05:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Rook twice the size? good luck getting around corners.....

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