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Torch Bearer - few things about him.

By on February 26, 2011 6:38:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ok, so... This is my first guide/thoughts/summary about such kind of thing (demigod Torch Bearer), so you are free to blame me
for whatever mistakes I made  (I'd prefer as much disagreement with me as possible). I am not the best Torch Bearer player
nor am good overall, but I just wanted to share some of my thoughts, to help some new players (if they read this). Moreover I
just wanted to write this for fun and maybe some discussions

Ok, So first of all. Everyone knows Torch Bearer is an average demigod, and knows three main styles of playing him: ice build,
fire build and hybrid. Now I'll take a detail explanation of all Torch Bearer's skills and show which build which skills/items take and what are their strengths/weaknesess.

This guide consists of (press CRTL + F and write a key word to get to that part of guide. Example "1. SKILLS" or "2) FIRE")

1. SKILLS (Overview of skills)
2. BUILDS (Main builds)
   1) FROST
   2) FIRE
   3) HYBRID
3. PLAYSTYLE (Playing style of those builds)
   1. Frost
   2. Fire
   3. Hybrid
4. CRAZY (odd creation of another build)
   1) ROOK
   2) BEAST
   6) OAK
   7) QUEEN
   8) SEDNA
   9) OCULUS
   10) EREBUS
8. FAVOR (favor items)
9. DEATH (not only Torch Bearer)

----------------------------------------------------------------- 1. SKILLS ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fire form - first skill you already have for free points yay. Whenever you start a match, always choose fire form. It increases
your mana regen by 50% for ~20 seconds. Whenever you stand, take flag, do nothing, change from ice form to fire, so you could
regen your mana.

Ice form - another free skill, which is good for another purpose. It gives you ~80 normal attack damage for ~20 seconds. Especially at the beginning it's amazingly good. Before engaging combat, switch to ice form then again to fire form. You'll have temporary damage and mana boost (fire, ice or hybrid builds, doesn't matter) and can deal a good amount of damage. After effect wears off, you can switch back to ice form to resume it again (if ice build, you can use skills), if fire build you can switch back to fire again if needed.

Frost Nova - freeze enemies/towers around yourself. Level first is not incredibly amazing, because it works more like a short interrupt without reseting cooldowns of the skills they used when interrupted. However, it might be good when saving ally or when chasing an enemy (it slows after freeze for 5 seconds or at least it should with uberfix). Level 2 is actually pretty good, because you can stop enemy demigods for noticeable time (2 seconds) and towers/minions in range get frozen for 8 seconds (very long). It is often good to use it before enemy uses a sigil (need to guess when) and finish him off before he unfreezes. If unsuccessful, he is still slowed and clearly not in the best mood, because there's nothing worse than inability to do anything when enemy team focuses on you . Level 3 skill of course is upgraded version and is even better, which gives you even more time to be successful at killing (3 seconds for demigods, 10 for everything else).

Rain of Ice - good skill against creeps, which also slows attack a bit, BUT huge mana cost. Level 1 skill (200 damage) is... in my opinion useless. Only good for finishing or regaining mana if using "Blade of the Serpent". Two nomal (also ranged, although shorter range) attacks are better than this skill + doesn't cost mana. Level 2 skill  (400 damage) can take out whole creep wave, which is good to prevent enemies on getting their own waves (more about that later). Level 3 (600 damage) can take out soldiers, archers, priests, heavily damage angels, kill catapults and deal some damage to giants. So if troops are not upgraded, you alone with this skill can take out nearly full wave of troops. Level 4 (800 damage) just deal some more damage, but overall it's not much of improvement (can take out upgraded catapults though). Each level slows attack of enemies by additional 10%, so at max it could be 40%, which is not bad to slow their auto attack damage for 3-5-7-10 seconds (1-4 levels).

Biting Chill - nothing too great, just reduces hp and mana regeneration of targets by 75% (high hp regenerating demigods like Sedna suffer from this), but really good for another skill (Deep Freeze).

Permafrost - slows enemy walking and attacking speed + regenerates more mana on higher levels. Level 1 (-3% walking speed) - very bad... Level 2 (-5% walking speed -10 % attack speed) +4.5 mana regen per second. Level 3 (-7% walking speed -15 % attack speed) + 9 mana regen per second. It's not a bad skill. You can actually slow enemies so much, that your teammates would be able to catch up and finish them. If your team has ooze beast, then the one he attacks, would have very slow attack speed, but however it works only when you are in range. Get out of range and their speed becomes normal.

Deep Freeze - great quick interrupt which if not successful at least could increase cooldowns + can deal damage if there are any frost effects on target. Level 1 (100 damage per effect) is amazing. Cheap mana wise, difficult to be interrupted yourself - just simple interrupt to use wisely, before target heals, teleports, etc. Level 2 (175 damage per effect). Level 3 (250 damage per effect). Level 4 (325 damage per effect). Later levels are not anything amazingly visible, but it's a huge boost. You can put three effect on target (Frost nova, Rain of Ice slow and Biting Chill). When you use Deep Freeze after those three effects, 325x3=975 damage is not so bad (just this Deep Freeze skill). And not huge cost of this skill as always. Cooldown increase at max level is 220% which is good to delay locks, teleports or other important skills.

Fireball - most often used skill. This skill is incredibly good for damage - low mana cost, high damage. Level 1 (300 damage) well... is bad. Only good for finishing enemy off or harassing if you have "Blade of the Serpent". Level 2 (550 damage) now another talk. It actually deals damage now and can be used just as simple offensive skill. Level 3 (850 damage) even better damage boost. Level 4 (1050 damage). One of strongest skills in game (weaker than rook's hammer, beast's venom spit and demon's spine + sometimes warp strike, but Fireball is cheaper mana wise).

Fire and Ice - skill which is difficult to get, however rewards with some nice boosts. +300 damage to Fireball (1350 damage) and +100 damage Deep Freeze (425 damage per effect -> 425x3=1275). As it doesn't increase mana cost... I think it's amazing.

Fire Aura - something like an opposite to Permafrost. It makes you and your allies to walk and attack faster. Level 1 (+5% movement + attack speed). Level 2 (+10% +5% movement + attack speed + 15 damage). Level 3 (+15% +5% movement + attack speed + 30 damage). This one works on you always, so when you go to shop, when you go to cap flag, you are always faster (unlike with Permafrost). Skill which helps to catch up/escape/help escape allies. Small damage boost is also not bad especially with armor reducers/minions on team - erebus, qot, or oak with his damage increase.

Fire Nova - quick area damage skill which throws small units in air for a huge mana cost. Level 1 (400 damage) best level of skill, because it's not too mana expensive, so you can spam it late game on troops and finish of enemies or kill creep waves early. Level 2 (600 damage) kills catapults also. level 3 (800 damage) just upgraded damage. Higher levels are very expensive mana wise and are more difficult to spam often (not short cooldown anyway).

Circle of Fire - skill which damages area for a high amount of damage per 10 seconds and low cost of mana. Level 1 (600 damage) in my opinion is the best level 1 skill. With it you can kill whole creeps wave, harass enemies and heavily damage demigods if they are in it. Level 2 (900 damage). Level 3 (1200 damage). Level 4 (1500 damage). Higher levels = more damage, so good against not moving creep waves or not moving demigods. Against towers of course it does full damage, but against demigods it's not so easy as most of them will just step out of circle (maybe could save you from getting some damage).

Inspirational Flame - nothing too amazing but also not bad. Gives a decent amount of mana permanently to Torch bearer (+15%) and increases mana regeneration rate by (200%). For pure fire builds, this makes Torch Bearer to usually never be out of mana, unless after some big fights.

Enhanced Attributes - gives some health, mana, damage, armor, health and mana regen. Nothing too amazing, because Torch Bearer has lots of other better skills.

On death effects - 200 area damage if you are in Fire form or -25% area movement speed reduce on enemies in Ice form. If there are no allies nearby and enemy has low hp, better to die in fire form (press switch button just after your final damage attack/skill). If your allies are nearby and target won't die from your fire explosion, then maybe better is to die in ice form for them to catch up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. BUILDS ------------------------------------------------------------------

All these builds are my personal, so other players might play differently.

========================================== 1) FROST ====================================

Levels    Skills                                              Items                                                  Items (2nd build)
1         Rain of Ice 1                                     Banded Armor + tp + hp pot                   Banded Armor + tp + hp pot
2         Deep Freeze 1            
3         Permafrost 1                            
4         Rain of Ice 2                                     Unbreakable Boots                                Wyrmskin Handguards
5         Frost Nova 1                                      Vlemish (if Blood of the Fallen)               Unbreakable Boots
6         Permafrost 2                                     Nimoth Chest Armor                               Nimoth Chest Armor
7         Rain of Ice 3                            
8         Permafrost 3                                     Hauberk of Life (if BotS)                         Vlemish Faceguard/Nature's Reckoning    
9         nothing                                             Plenor Battlecrown    
10       Rain of Ice 4 + Frost Nova 2    
11       Deep Freeze 2            
12       Deep Freeze 3                                   Banded -> Journeyman's Treads             Banded -> Journeyman's Treads
13       Deep Freeze 4            
14       nothing                                             Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate                  Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate
15       Biting Chill + Frost Nova 3
16       Fire Nova 1            
17       Fire Nova 2                
18       Fire Nova 3                                       Groffling -> Bulwark                               Groffling -> Bulwark
19       Enhanced Attributes        
20       Enhanced Attributes        

FAVOR ITEM                                                BotS / BotF / SoR                                   Poisoned Dagger

Items                                                         Locks, Teleports, Sigils                           Locks, Teleports, Sigils

Citadel Upgrades:                                        Both builds need to get at least some citadel upgrades.

Build                                                           Tank Ice build                                       Slowing support
                                                                                                                             (Nice on Prison/Exile/Crucible )

Strengths:                                                   Good against Rooks due to                     Overall weaker in every aspect,
                                                                  increasing cooldowns, stopping                 but making enemies slow annoys them
                                                                  towers, however cannot do                       really a lot and if they are not aware
                                                                  enough damage to be truly dangerous.     of it, it can lead to countless    
                                                                  Also good good for making enemies         unexpected deaths. Damage source is    
                                                                  angry, because such debuffs affect           teammates, you just make sure to stop   
                                                                  them mentally and might increase            that unlucky demigod.
                                                                  the chance of mistakes.                          Same other build's tip about increasing
                                                                  With BotS endless mana.                        chances of a mistake.
                                                                  With SoR shorter cooldowns.                    First kill might be because of a   
                                                                  With BotF more hp.                                 surprising slow.

Weaknesses                                                Has difficulties to push others, low            Has difficulties to push others, low    
                                                                  hp, low damage.                                    hp, low damage

============================================ 2) FIRE ====================================

Levels    Skills                                              Items                                                  Items (2nd build)
1         Circle of Fire 1                                   Banded Armor + tp + hp pot                   Banded Armor + tp + hp pot
2         Fire Aura 1            
3         Fireball 1                            
4         Fireball 2                                          Unbreakable Boots                                Unbreakable Boots
5         Fire Nova 1                                       Nimoth's Chest                                      Nimoth's Chest
6         Fire Aura 2                                        Vlemish                                                Vlemish
7         Fireball 3                             
8         Fire Aura 3                                       Hauberk of Life / Boots of Speed             Hauberk of Life / Boots of Speed
9         Circle of Fire 2                
10       Fireball 4    
11       Fire Nova 2        
12       Circle of Fire 3                                  Banded -> Journeyman's Treads              Banded -> Journeyman's Treads
13       Circle of Fire 4                                  Orb of Defiance                                      Orb of Defiance
14       nothing                                           Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate                    Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate
15       Fire Nova 3 + Inspirational Flame    
16       Deep Freeze 1            
17       Frost Nova 1                
18       Frost Nova 2                                    Groffling -> Bulwark                               Groffling -> Bulwark
19       Frost Nova 3        
20       Enhanced attributes        

FAVOR ITEM                                              Blood of the Fallen / SoR / DCV                Swift Anklet

Items                                                       Sigils, teleports, late locks                       Sigils, teleports, late locks

Citadel upgrades:                                      If possible some upgrades, but not a must unless no one else does

Build:                                                       HP Fire build                                          HP/speed Fire build

Strengths                                                  Very tanky build, huge damage burst,      Tanky with more speed/harassment,
                                                               good against creeps.                              lots of damage, easier to catch fleeing
                                                               With SoR shorter cooldowns, but lower      enemies. Good against creeps.                                                                                 hp

Weaknesses                                             Lack of interrupts early on.                      Lack of interrupts early on.

========================================= c) HYBRID =====================================

Levels    Skills                                              Items                                                  Items (2nd build)
1         Rain of Ice 1                                     Banded Armor + tp + hp pot                   Banded Armor + tp + hp pot
2         Fireball 1                
3         nothing                                            Nimoth's Chest                                      Unbreakable Boots
4         Fireball 2 + Rain of Ice 2                                                                               Nimoth's Chest
5         Deep Freeze 1                                                                     
6         nothing                                            Unbreakable Boots                                 Vlemish
7         Fireball 3 + Rain of Ice 3                    Boots of Speed                                      Plenor Battlecrown    
8         Frost Nova                                        Hauberk of Life                                     
9         nothing                    
10       Fireball 4 + Rain of Ice 4    
11       Frost Nova 2            
12       Deep Freeze 2                                 Banded -> Journeyman's Treads               Banded -> Journeyman's Treads
13       Deep Freeze 3            
14       Deep Freeze 4                                 Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate                    Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate
15       Fire and Ice
16       Bitting Chill            
17       Fire Nova 1                
18       Fire Nova 2            
19       Fire Nova 3        
20       Enhanced attributes/Fire Aura        

FAVOR ITEM                                              Blade of the Serpent                                 Swift Anklet / BotF / DCV

Items                                                      Sigils, teleports, locks                                Sigils, teleports, locks

Citadel upgrades:                                     Both builds need to get at least some citadel upgrades.

Build:                                                      BotS Hybrid                                               Fast Hybrid

Strengths:                                               Endless mana if used correctly,                    Higher speed, but not endless mana,
                                                             very high damage burst, easy relocking.        very high damage burst, easy relocking.

Weaknesses                                           Being squishy, difficult to use.                      Being squishy, difficult to use.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. PLAYSTYLE ---------------------------------------------------------------

Just basically, if player is equally good in all those builds, their overall strength should be something like this:

Frost slow < Frost blood/bots < Hybrid speed < Hybrid Blade of the Serpent < Fire speed < Fire blood

============================================ 1. Fire ====================================

Fire build has best starting power. Why is that so? Because of few very important things. First of all Circle of Fire. It's a skill, which doesn't require lots of mana (450) and can kill whole creep wave while you go to that middle flag (having cataract in mind, but it works in every map, just need to find a place). If your opponent went to middle flag, use circle of fire in the place, where both troop waves engage the combat, and leave it. You gain exp/gold for every kill, so you don't even need to be nearby, while enemy might miss his wave or at least part of it. Do this as often as possible (you change forms to keep your mana high). Also, you have high hp, which lets you to stand again every single demigod in the game. A bit later you get even better at this due to Fire Aura, which lets you to catch close to every wave, while enemies miss more (if they are not aware of what you're doing). Fire Nova later can fasten things even more (I personally hate so much to miss my own wave due to being in middle and capping exp flag). Fireball gets stronger so is very good to damage everyone - demigods to force them retreat/kill. Towers to force enemies come to you and protect it. Or just simply, to show that you "got mana". This is a complete fake, which could be done when you have lots of hp (very low mana). Your mana regen is great, but still not too good until helm. Using Circle of Fire and Fireball just for the simple reason - to scare enemies and make them think that you are stronger than them (if they are crazy enough, they might not see this and actually become dangerous to you, so if that happens, very carefully retreat while still faking your "I am with lots of mana and I can damage you a lot" attitude. Now it's good to fake Circle of Fire if you have it low level (due to low mana cost). Higher levels are not getting so much effective unless enemies are staying, which they don't do usually. Also keep in mind. It doesn't matter how high damage Circle of Fire does, the players still prefer to avoid it (early on especially, due to it being strongest skill - stronger than spit, stronger than hammer). Always before going to shop, try to use everything possible. Whole mana on towers, demigods, troops, etc. Lots of hp against enemy towers/skills, etc too. I so much like to get spitted just on the way to crystal (costs some mana to them with 0 actual use). So this build becomes stronger and stronger until high level, but then sooner or later you encounter a fatal problem - you cannot kill enemies alone. You can damage them a lot. You might be even stronger than them, but without an interrupt, there's nothing easier than to teleport out from you. Advantages to you are that they waste teleports, etc, gold. Disadvantages might be, that IF they are overall stronger demigod, they get more stronger than you.

In team fights you are amazing though. Circle of Fire to do lots of damage, + Fireball + Fire Nova. Fire Aura often lets to catch up to fleeing demigod, do damage with normal attacks faster. So as you see, this build is pretty much amazing, besides that interrupting thing. What do others have good in them?

Against troops you are good. Can easily wipe everything except giants for low mana cost, and if they stay in place, Circle of Fire can damage 2/3 hp of giants too. + making your own troops faster, so they damage more often than enemy troops.

========================================== 2. Hybrid ====================================

Hybrid's main idea is to get "Fire and Ice" skill. With it your Fireballs become stronger than the one of Fire build. Same cost - more damage. At start, You are most often pushed out of the lane. You do low damage, you have low hp. In other words you are very weak. However, you have endless mana (Blade of the Serpent is more usual for hybrids). So that means, if enemy doesn't have monk, you might after some time damage them enough to force them go back. Sadly until level 4 you have no good skills to
do so. So until then just waiting, trying to get all waves and if possible flags. If not possible, then just waiting. When you get the boots of speed (hybrids lack speed, because no fire aura, and you still need to change forms for damaging). Then you have more chances to do same thing as with fire tb (even better actually). You can kill creep wave in one Rain of Ice and go to middle flag. enemy might be forced to go back to his own troop wave, thus letting you cap flag by a bit (don't expect to take flag, but if you can get it to middle without making it yellow it's good enough). After few such tries you might finally capture it (maybe enemy even forgets that it is capped that much). Even later on, you start doing decent amount of damage (not such staying power however...) You don't have any skills to scare them off for real. Fireball isn't so damaging, even though it does enough damage. Rain of Ice although good to damage towers while you damage creep wave and maybe demigod at same time to regain mana, you cannot spam it due to cooldown + still high mana cost. Until you reach very high levels (15+), you just have to be walking around, damaging as much as you can. Freezing/interrupting/increasing cooldowns of enemy demigods. You have one strength, which Fire build doesn't have - interrupts. You are actually dangerous to enemies with low hp, because you might not let them escape with your two ways of stopping their teleports. If you have Journeyman's boots, you might even be good enough to chase enemies very far into base (if done or unsuccessful, frost nova and get out of there). After level 15 you get huge damage boosts so you are even more dangerous (especially in team fights). So overall you are bad at start and quite good later on.

Against troops. You are good. Rain of Ice is not a skill you can use often and it's mana expensive so preferable to use in combo with BotS, which you can't do often too. Later on with Fire Nova you become a bit better, but again - another mana expensive skill. Frost Nova stops all troops for a long time, so it's worth using in combo with other AoE skill and that makes it good enough with lower damage.

=========================================== 3. Ice ======================================

Ice torch bearer (with blood or BotS) has some good battle controlling abilities, however... that is all he has. Start is horrible. You cannot push much and cannot keep flag unless facing someone weak. You don't have speed and are close to useless. If you took BotS favor item, then... you can sometimes cast a skill, if not then it is as same as you don't have any good skills. Only Deep Freeze is worth using, but only if you have some ally helping you. So preferable to stay in a place with a teammate (2 on hp flag or something like that). Alone you can't do anything until level 4. Then you might be able to do damage, but it is low with enormously long cooldowns. Frost nova is rarely good, because someone needs to damage targets enough to make it worth using (to freeze for UB's to teleport to you might be one of few good uses). Deep Freeze might let that UB to cast his own interrupt without too much worries + you slow enemy a bit. But again... you deal low damage yourself, so if not your teammates, you are useless. Staying alone against rook with BotS is not best idea either. You might think that you can stay against him longer than him, but unfortunately not. Clever rook doesn't use vial in front of you. So you have troubles with towers. If you can stand against them, shoulders are problem. If you can stand even that, hammer is problem. If you interrupt fake hammer, he only needs to wait until Deep Freeze wears off. So overall, only thing you could do is slower the process of rook destroying your towers. Hybrid at least can use Fireball to scare rook off, while this can only rarely use expensive mana wise skill which doesn't do so much damage anyway (800 damage max). In team fights however. Even if you don't do lots of damage, you can increase their spammable skills use by Deep Freezing, Freeze whole team for a while to focus on someone greatly, slow everyone's movement and auto attack so they feel not so well in battle. You don't do lots of damage (800 damage with skill per fight + might be more to a single target), but you still do enough troubles to be visible. Slow build is very similar except that it cannot spam skill, however some single unlucky target (if no sedna, oak in battle to remove that) can get incredibly slow to even be unable to escape the fight.

Against troops it's good. Damage is only 800 so can kill everyone except giants for high cost, and with Frost Nova, you can stop whole wave for a long period of time, which gives you (your teammates, troops) enough time to destroy it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. CRAZY ------------------------------------------------------------------

So after looking at all of those builds I thought to try another build - a combination of them all (their strengths).

=================================== 1) CRAZY HYBRID BUILD ===============================

Levels    Skills                                              Items                                                         
1         Circle of Fire 1                                   Banded Armor + tp + hp pot        
2         Fire Aura 1                
3         Fireball 1                                          Unbreakable Boots            
4         Fireball 2                                          Nimoth's Chest    
5         Fire Nova 1                                    
6         Deep Freeze 1                                
7         Fireball 3                                          Vlemish            
8         Frost Nova                                        Hauberk of Life    /Boots of speed        
9         nothing                    
10       Fireball 4 + Frost Nova 2    
11       Deep Freeze 2            
12       Deep Freeze 3                                  Banded -> Journeyman's Treads        
13       Deep Freeze 4                                  Orb of Defiance (Optional)
14       Nothing                                            Nimoth -> Groffling Warplate        
15       Fire and Ice + Frost Nova 3
16       Rain of Ice 1            
17       Rain of Ice 2                                    Vlemish -> Hungarling's Crown
18       Rain of Ice 3                                    Cloak of Flames (Optional)
19       Rain of Ice 4                                    Hauberk of Life -> Narmoth's ring/Bulwark
20       Bitting Chill        
FAVOR ITEM                                               Blood of the Fallen, Dark Crimson Vial   
Items                                                        Sigils, teleports, locks
Citadel upgrades:                                       Build good for citadel upgrades.

Build:                                                        Crazy build.

Strengths:                                                 Very high damage burst. Strong Tank.
                                                                Easy relocking, two interrupts.
Weaknesses                                              High mana use, weaker area damage

=================================== 2) CRAZY PLAYSTYLE ===================================

Explanation in details. And yeah I know that in theory things doesn't always work same way in practice, so I am fully aware of that and no, I am not saying that it is clearly better than any other Torch Bearer build. It's just another build, which may not be so bad, however people aren't using (or i don't see).

So as you see, starting like simple Fire TB. It gives you enough strength for early game. By sacrificing two levels of Fire Aura, which don't give so much boost anyway (level 1 makes you faster than basic enemy speed or makes you equal, which is enough) you get two interrupts. One is good to use when escaping/stopping enemy another is making sure to stop any teleports of enemy. You sacrifice Circle of Fire however it is not such a great skill when getting additional levels of it. Wasting skill points on a skill, which can be easily avoided is not as good as skills which remove your main weakness (no interrupts). By around level 10 you have a good stopping skill, which just by casting randomly in team fights gives you damage boost, problems to enemy team, and slows enemies down. You can switch back after to use Fireball or stay to use Deep Freeze if needed. Level 11-14 are not amazing in any TB build, so you are not very visibly getting stronger. Level 15 gives you additional strengths and if you were a bit too weak, you might be strong again. By about this level game should end and you have skills of high direct damage. Fire Nova 1 which takes out small troops instantly for not high mana cost (400 damage for 775 mana). Some may say Fire Nova 2 is good and I agree however... (600 damage for 1075 mana is not so great as 400 damage for 775 mana + 600 damage for 450 mana with Circle of Fire = 1000 damage for 1225 mana). Also knowing that Circle of Fire is better early and you cannot spam Fire Nova. Deep Freeze lets you prevent enemies from teleporting (switch to ice form, before they think to teleport out. You would do less damage, might even not kill, but if teammates are around + Frost Nova, you have chances of killing). Frost Nova itself lets you to escape from fights (you don't have lots of speed), lets relock without too much troubles and is good in team fights to disable whole team damage. Also don't forget how minion builds/towers are not good in Frost Nova. Past level 15 if you get Rain of Ice it's not such a good of a skill to use often. Only against creeps, team fights, finishing enemy demigod with Fireball -> Frost Nova -> Rain of Ice -> Deep Freeze -> Fire Nova (can be skipped) -> Fireball. That is just thinking that you do damage only by yourself (should be with whole team). It's not so easy to achieve successfully and is very late game, but still: 1350 + 800 + 425x3 + (400) + 1350 = 4775 + (400) damage. So that means that you could start freezing enemy quite early enough (especially if ally is nearby and no enemy healers nearby). Mana might be an issue sometimes, but you might be relocking, teleporting often anyway, so getting back to crystal from time to time is not difficult. If you've got any great relockers though and don't need locks yourself, you might take Cloak of Flames. More area damage, a lot more mana (especially with his +50% mana regen).

Replay (nothing special) -

Another replay. 3v4 Enhanced AI. Quite interesting however long -

------------------------------------------------------ 5. CITADEL UPGRADES ----------------------------------------------------------------

Citadel upgrades. Those often depend on various things: settings, map, player amount, demigods. If you have regulus on team, then you usually don't need to get lots of upgrades, but it does matter on regulus build. Players who can buy upgrades, should know themselves, but upgrades are not so heavily game breaking, besides some important ones.

Fortified structures 1 (regenerates towers). I've personally seen lots of players being too crazy about this one. They leave tower to get this upgrade and by that time, that tower is either destroyed or heavily damaged. Don't get it if you don't need it yet. Get it when you have free money, see that enemies can push you too much (i.e. Rook), and when enemy is not destroying your tower at that very moment. Safest time is to push enemy back to his crystal (or he goes by himself to get currency or items). That time is best to get some gear, upgrades. It regenerates towers, so if you protect it well, even heavily damaged tower can get back to full health for only 600 gold. Other levels are not so good, but could be gained in addition if you have money and no artifacts anytime soon (all other items already gained).

Currency 1 (+4 gold for every team member). A great upgrade. But again, don't get it if your towers are threatened. Try to switch with teammates for a while or something (better to get it later, than to have problems later by not having a tower). Currency 2 (+2 gold for every team member). I personally don't like this upgrade much. For 3000 gold if you have 3 person team, it will pay back only after 8 minutes  20 seconds (as for a team). As for that person, who bought it - after 25 minutes. In other words, your two teammates get small advantage since that moment, while you suffer heavy disadvantage. Early game, while you don't have five items in your inventory, everyone else will be stronger than you. That means -> high chance of deaths, losses of towers/creep waves, for such a poor boost. Players using Magical Coin Pouch have a bit different situation here as every gold they get is > every gold anyone else gets, but still. If you prepare to take a disadvantage (not being pushed so much, not killed at all) for possible later advantage, then try your luck

Priests. Double edged sword. It might be good, it might be bad. Against demigods with low area skills (sedna, demon) they might be good. Against heavy area damage enemies (Torch Bearer, Oculus), they give more gold, experience and push lanes a bit more. So take them early at your own risk. However late game with all troops combined, they push so much, that not many can hold easily.

Angels. Ehmm... useless except they sometimes can fly quite far away to finish enemy demigod, who is very low on hp (after sigil or something).

Catapults. Great. They actually damage towers a lot and tower Rooks start to feel the fall of their own towers. If no heavy enemy area damagers or huge map, you can get them with all previous troops to start pushing or wait for the last ones.

Giants. Yeah... those are tough ones. Especially with increased attack from Fire Aura, they can deal lots of faster damage. They finish towers quickly, push enemies strongly, die not so easily. Best troops for such cost (they give ~100 gold to enemies, but still... tough to kill them). With them on map, it is strongly recommended to have as many portals as possible.

Blacksmith 1. Worth getting for a cheap price. Other levels depends on map. If it's huge, then one more or two levels could be good (especially with Torch Bearer, Queen, Oak, Erebus in team to boost creeps even more). If not, then getting artifacts might be a better idea.

Armory 1. Worth getting for a cheap price. Other levels depend if map is huge or enemy team has Queen, Oak, Erebus, etc who can boost damage of creeps against demigods/towers. If not, then maybe artifacts are better.

Trebuchets. On Crucible, Zikurat, Mandala might be good to have them. Those take out enemy towers, fortresses for a pretty cheap price, but keep in mind - you get no gold for that, so it's not bad to give a finishing hit yourself for additional 300 gold.

Finger of God. I don't know... It's so random, that I don't trust it enough. It kills your waves, so you don't get gold for them, it deals enough damage to kill troops, which you should be able to kill with 80% demigods easy anyway and if it kills an enemy, you get an assist... I hate this one. Get at your own risk.

Building Firepower 1. Might be not bad, but I think items are more important, and that could delay this upgrade till very late. It's not bad but there are better things, however first level is cheap, so could be gained earlier. Other levels are not worthy unless you are full of gold.

Experience 1. Higher levels are not good + expensive, but this one might be good sometimes. If enemies get any troop upgrades earlier than they should, for only 1200 gold, you could get a lot more exp (especially in bigger maps).

Graveyard. Usually it is not worth buying, because you shouldn't die, however. Late levels keep you dead pretty long, so for only 600 gold, you can be revived soon enough to relock or other things... Level 2 is not bad either, however level 3rd is really expensive and even though it's not so bad (earlier revived team after massive deaths on both sides could give you an advantage), but for this cost, you might get some better item usually.

----------------------------------------------------------------- 6. CONSUMABLES -------------------------------------------------------------


Consumables are very important in this game. They are your life savers, enemy surprisers, calculation problem makers, map controllers. However they cost, so better use them wisely.

Starting from my personal Torch Bearer starting items.

Potion (+750 hp). It is not very good. You shouldn't use it ever, so why do I buy it? Simple reason - just in case. I hate not having worst case scenario escape plans and on early levels your best bets are Fire Aura, Permafrost, Swift Anklet, Deep Freeze, to escape the death (overestimating your own powers, etc. Everyone does mistakes). However speed/interrupt of 0.1 second doesn't always help. Especially with someone like regulus on enemy team. Combining this potion with late taken Blood of the Fallen gives you two ways to survive the combat (With Blood or without it doesn't often matter in pushing enemy demigod from the flag, so taking it late might drag them even into your towers). With 800+750 additional addon while in combat is huge amount in the beginning (especially against too aggressive beasts). Also, those help you get kills yourself (take blood while pursuing, and after kill use potion to survive against Regulus or something).

Teleport. It's a must have item always and as soon as possible. It might save you from death just by teleporting from the middle of enemies if they used their interrupts, saves from Regulus arrow, helps you to teleport and finish that demigod killing your ally, helps you to save your teammate, helps you to keep control of flags/scare enemies by faking teleport (cast for 0.5 second and stop). Late game helps to relock portals.

Capture lock. Pretty useless until late game, but sometimes (rare times) can be useful to lock a flag and run from pursuing demigod while your allies teleport to that locked flag (which would be taken by enemy demigods). It's worth locking gold flags, late game portal flags, any flags to keep control of map late game. But as I said - no reason to waste money early game. There are better things.

Sigil of Vitality. Another a must to have item. It + potion = two ways to survive the combat. It instantly adds 50% hp for 20 seconds, so you in that time can kill an enemy + escape (not always, so sometimes it's better to suicide on enemy towers). Just escape from a certain death. Don't use sigils earlier than before death, unless you see enemy sedna, long stunners nearby and they for sure will use that on you.

Big potion (+3000 hp). Not always I take it, but it's a good fake item (you ask enemies to interrupt you), so you could teleport later. If they don't interrupt, then you heal and can escape usually.

Orb of Defiance. Not really a consumable, but it takes that slot, so I added it here. You can shield yourself for a heavy price (you cannot move for 5 seconds). However it is a good item. 500 hp and 500 armor are great. Shield is especially good if you have Oak, Sedna, Queen in your team (they can heal/shield you when you get out of your own shield). When you are low on hp, try to shield only if you are on safe place. If you are not, then you'll probably die. Shielding to avoid something like hammer, spit, mass damage skills focused on you is good though. Also it gives allies some time to come and help you while you are shielded. It's a great item, but takes an important slot, so choose it wisely.

Wand of Speed. Sometimes good, sometimes not. For slowing builds it might be required to get those first slowing hits, for fast builds it might give even more chances to catch fleeing/weak demigods. In big maps it might get you easier time to catch more waves, get more flags, so you need to use it often if you get it. Otherwise, don't get it.

Warpstone (warp 30 seconds). Bad item, but in Crucible it is a must later on. Cutting 1/3 map to get to the center is huge shortcut. With it, it's even possible to permalock enemy portal if you have Frost Nova and managed to get it (if unsuccessful -> Frost Nova + TP). But it has long cooldown, so it is difficult to actually achieve that.

Cloak of Elfinkind (warp 20 seconds. Very expensive, however 20% speed, 15% dodge, 750 armor are good boosts. Especially warp. Here it has a great cooldown and finally you can warp in, 2 times while lock is active. So it is possible to even warp in, take some time while doing something (getting beaten and using sigil) and warp out. It has instant cast, so cannot be interrupted. Amazing item.

Cloak of Flames. I rarely get it, but it has some uses. Huge mana boost (1050) + mana regen (20 per second) + 30% attack speed. It can use (Circle of fire 800 damage per 10 seconds). So if you don't know what to get as third consumable (besides teleport and sigil) and you don't need a lock, you can get this one.


---------------------------------------------------------------- 7. OTHER DEMIGODS ---------------------------------------------------------


To know how to play, you also need to know your enemies well. So here are some tips about fighting other enemies.

========================================= 1) ROOK ======================================

He is tough... Very tough... Vial and blood rooks are very difficult to push out of lane (even with blood, pot, Fire build). Even then probably temporary. So if you are not able to push out - don't do it. Don't waste your hp. Having a flag gives him war rank advantage, but if he doesn't control exp flag, you get same experience for dying troops. You might want to get other flags from time to time (if possible), but don't ever let him come close to your tower. If you let - tower is gone or heavily damaged. That is toughest opponent, because you can only shop, when he is away or someone else swapped places with you for a while. His towers require you to have armor, but the later in game, the less effective they become. So tower rook is not so dangerous, but his shoulder weapons are tough in close range, so need to avoid them too. If you fight, you fight until you kill, push him out, heavily damage and retreat, but if he has vial and doesn't go back, it was not so good, because he will reheal faster than you. If he has hammer, he is very dangerous, however, hammer is not a fast high area damaging skill, so you can avoid it. usually he will try to stun with boulder before hammer, so fly in such lines, that he would have least possible chance to hit you (not directly from him). Better to some side way, then turn back, etc. Look how enemy plays and fly according to his moves. If you avoided, he still can hammer you, so you either can fly side, back, or into him (depending where you are). Rook has problems to hit target under him and difficult to rotate himself, so safest place against rook is actually under rook. However need not to forget that his towers could be nearby and his allies teleporting, so keep an eye on everything on map :] Rook's hammer can be easily interrupted, vial delayed, he himself slowed, so with team you have lots of chances to kill him if he is not careful enough.

======================================== 2) BEAST ======================================

Another tough one. He likes to spit... He does heavy melee damage, he slows your normal attacks, he is fast. However he doesn't have lots of mana (unless he has BotS). If he doesn't have, you can force him to waste his spits and then push him out (if you have monk). if don't still you have hp regen + wait for higher levels to damage him with stronger fireball. Not high chances to push him out of lane, but you can both try to get flags, kill his troops before he comes back (if he goes for another flag). If he just stays, stay there too and keep an eye on allies. Maybe teleporting to them at some point might help. Later this enemy becomes stronger and stronger so if you are not powerful enough, you need to always have last escape chance. Look for his stun, if he does, you are safe to teleport (if no one more around), if he doesn't, slow him, outrun, freeze. Try not to kill him just by yourself, but only wear him off by a bit. Before going to crystal or shop, try to catch his final spit if you can to waste some of his mana. Very good favor item against it is Symbol of Purity if Beast levels up spit.

===================================== 3) TORCH BEARER ===================================

Well you should know yourself, so you should know your enemy. You should compare your and his builds and play accordingly to that. Be careful of his skills, his speed, slowing abilities. He can tear your towers quickly too, but if you protect them, it's not so easy. Harassing with skills can force you to retreat deeper into towers, but you can do the same to him.

==================================== 4) DEMON ASSASSIN ===================================

This one is weak early on. So you shouldn't have too many problems against him, however, be aware of his fast casting skills. Don't think that he can use only spine or warp strike. He might use both before you can use sigil (instant cast). Later on this becomes more dangerous as higher quick damage. So don't get low on health against him or he will kill you before you know it. His swapping skill might get you into many horrible places, so be aware of that. He may not be dangerous to you if you don't attack him much, but he could be highly dangerous if you do. Keep an eye on his spine cooldown. If he didn't use, he will when you have lower hp. If he did, then you are safe for high damage for a while. Also he usually gets quite fast later on, so don't try to walk around on low hp. If you do, he might come at you with warp strike, which has wider range, than your vision. Warp strike since level 15 becomes his main damage skill, so if you don't have lots of health, you are his target. Be aware that swap could get you ganked so strongly, that even with sigil you cannot always escape - Frost Nova 3 can help you teleport out of this deadly trap. Take advantage of his weakness - low area damage. Fighting him in troops with your area skills can help you damage/push him even more.

====================================== 5) REGULUS ======================================

Not strong enemy. You are pretty much always stronger than him, however don't underestimate your enemies, because that is when you usually die. Potion might save you from his deadly snipes. Keep your health always higher than his max snipe damage (+ ~250 Heaven's Wrath if he has one). Always be aware of his mines and try to keep an eye when and where he has thrown them. If you see him not throwing mines, but he did before, then probably there is some deadly trap on map. Be aware not to walk with lower hp than all mines + snipe damage then (having sigil is high priority). He isn't so dangerous by himself (even if 3 mines hit
you), but he is dangerous when you don't expect that much. He gives you trouble when you fight another demigod, he destroys
your towers from longer range, he kills minions easily. If he goes auto attack build, he is even weaker early on, however late game can be dangerous to you. If his normal attacks deal ~200-300 damage per hit (not criticals), then it's no good. He also has many slows, so someone else can help him. He has one huge weakness though. No interrupts, so you are always free to teleport from him.

======================================= 6) OAK ========================================

He is not powerful early on, so usually you can push him out. Whether he takes spirits or assassin build, you are either stronger or similar strength of him. However later levels give him more strength. He can not only interrupt your skills, but he can also damage you greatly. His monks, mana/hp gain on troop kills can let him stand long in lane. His shield skill saves him from deaths, so getting kills of him is the most difficult thing, so avoid trying to kill him, try to waste his shield and kill either him or someone else who didn't get shield + tp combo. If you have demon on team, you might be able to kill him, but that is only exception. You might try to stun him before he uses shield, try to interrupt his shield if you are lucky though. Late game you could barely stand a chance against him alone, but at least you could stand for a while. Try not to kill creeps near his wards and not to fight oak near wards, because wards give him additional defense. Penitence increases damage of all skills, so mines or snipes + thunder become more dangerous.

====================================== 7) QUEEN ========================================

Queen... Very tough early on. You might push for some time, then be pushed out, then push her out again. Similar strength, but usually she will outlast you, becase of her greater mana/hp regen + monks + shield + shamblers if she has any. You are dangerous to minion queens, but you cannot kill queen herself easily. Up to level 10 you both get stronger and stronger and there is when you both are really strong. She can lower your armor so greatly, that you will be damaged a lot by troops, towers, demigods. Better to avoid fighting her too much if you can push her out of flag and concentrate on tower or something else, because queen is difficult to kill also. She has no interrupts, so worst case scenario tp to your crystal.

====================================== 8) SEDNA ========================================

Sedna. Another healer who is not so easy to kill, due to her healing/regenerating abilities. She doesn't have many damaging skills (be aware of Pounce), but can stay in battle pretty long. No matter how heavy you damage her, she will regenerate it faster than you probably, so keep that in mind. Her mana regenerates slower than your, so keep that in mind too. She could be faster than you, so be aware not to die because of that. She might silence you before you use sigil and pounce, so be careful of that also. In team fights, silence could be very dangerous to you, especially as you are more skill user, than auto attacker. Debuffs don't work on her well if she has heal 3, which removes them all. Late game she is about same strength as you but is very difficult to kill anyway. She has no area skills, so her weakness is minions/troops.

====================================== 9) OCULUS =======================================

Similar to your demigod but general. Both have great damaging skills, both have great area damage, but he has monks, minions. He doesn't have interrupt. So early on, you are similar strength, but he will outlast you with monk (if you don't have any). His normal attacks are weaker so pushing him is not so difficult and his skills early on are not dangerous (keep aware of his double damage from Blast Off). He can destroy your towers while damaging you, so try to be farther from your tower if possible when chain starts. Also, try to avoid chain when you are low on hp. It can reach pretty far at max level, so sigiling might be worth to make sure to survive. Skills to him cost lots of mana, while to you not so much. So after battles he is pretty worn out, while you can still use lots of skills. He cannot stop you, so you might teleport out from him when needed. At 15 level, he becomes powerful by gaining Lightning Balls explosion ability. With your area damage, you might take more damage faster than you want to, so it would be wise to be aware of additional 1600 damage from using Fire Nova, Rain of Ice, Circle of Fire. They explode after some time later anyway, but if you don't have much life, you could kill yourself like that (If you kill Oculus and he had balls alive, they explode, so keep aware of that too).

====================================== 10) EREBUS =======================================

This one is a bit similar to Oak at first, but stronger earlier. He can avoid your skills by misting, he can bite you for some damage + armor debuff, so his minions could damage you. His minions are free even without a single skill (although not so effective as with some of them). At beginning you are about same strength, so can push each other. If difficult, try to take a flag, but don't get yellowed. He has greater speed at start, but you could surpass him. His minions even though strong are not so terrible for you, but you have troubles in killing Erebus himself. Since level 5 he gets a great escaping skill. To kill him becomes even more difficult and his strength increases. Later levels he gets quite a long stun, which might be dangerous to you, especially with bite after, which slows you down a lot too. If need to escape, try to fake portal and if possible interrupt his stun then teleport. Late game, he can Bat Swarm to you from quite far, so need to be careful not to walk low on hp. Keep an eye on his potions if he dies though. If he is level 10 or above and he drops potions which give 750 hp, then it is poison. Since level 10 normal potion always gives 3000 hp or mana. Later levels of course it will be poisoned always, but at level 20 instead of 5000 hp and mana he'll keep dropping 3000 hp poisoned potion, so same note about knowing if it is poisoned or not.

----------------------------------------------------------------- 8. FAVOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------

I will list favor items, which I think have any positive use for Torch Bearer at least in any scenario (I accept any suggestions, because I might have forgotten, didn't know some great uses).

Favor items:

Blood of the Fallen - item, which is at least not bad for anyone. 800 more hp and 5 hp/s is always great to survive more damage and make a late blood favor trick.

Swift Anklet - great 15% additional speed always lets you to reach fleeing or escape from pursuing demigod. Great at capping flags, kiting enemies with your ranged attacks. It makes your form changing less negative as you can catch enemies easily after that.

Blade of the Serpent - on use converts your all damage into mana, so with your area of effect skills you can instantly refill your mana. It also adds 400 mana and 25 weapon damage, which is also a good buff.

Poisoned Dagger - 5% attack speed and 20% chance on hit to slow by 25% for 8 seconds. Even though ranged attacks have only 13% chance, it is still not bad to annoy others with their slow walking speed.

Staff of Renewal - 20% lower cooldowns and 200 hp, 175 mana. Hp and mana are always nice and lower cooldowns work for everything: skills, items, etc.

Symbol of Purity - 250 hp and a way to remove any negative effects. I think it is underrated favor item. Useless against enemies who cannot put on you any negative effects, so check if there are any enemies with those. If there are something like UB, Reg, QoT, Erebus, Sedna on enemy team you can easily annoy them with it. Especially Unclean beasts. Spits on you do nothing every 30 seconds, so no damage from it even in close team vs team battles. Any slows, ground spikes can be removed together. Even the great silence can be easily removed and sigiled in front of Sedna.

Amulet of Teleportation - not bad in big maps to reduce the time of walking, however watch out for its' cooldown. It has longer cooldown, so sometimes you might not be fast enough to help ally, relock flag, etc.

Dark Crimson Vial - a really great favor item, which could easily replace blood of the fallen. If you don't have a general on your team, then with this, you could have enough staying power even without a monk. Also, this favor item and potions + sigils might confuse enemies that you are spending lots of gold on them. Under sigil, this heals 50% more, so that is another good thing. And it greatly works with health stacking items. The longer the battle, the more you could benefit from this favor item.

----------------------------------------------------------------- 9. DEATH ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 (to be added)

This part is mostly about how to die.

Some people say that you should try not to die at all in this game. Partially they are correct, however they might not know advantages of dying.


1. While alive you get gold every second, so if you died, you lose all the gold, which could have been gained, if you wouldn't have died. (~100-500 usually)

2. You lose gold, exp from troop waves. (depends on troops)

3. Cannot help allies, take flags, portals, protect towers, etc.

4. Enemies get gold if they deal damage to you before your death. That is including all minions of enemy demigods.

5. To some enemies gold might give more advantages than the exact same amount of gold to you.


1. If you die from tower, minion, etc. and nobody dealt you damage in last 10-15 seconds (cannot remember), enemies get no gold. If they dealt, but you still die from tower, troops, etc - they get assist, which gives less gold for them than kill.

2. if you are in an enemy territory and there is no way to escape, go and die. Better to die from towers than from enemy demigod.

3. If you kill enemy after death, you still get gold, but if you get assist, you get none. Same applies to enemy, so if you kill enemy before he kills/gets assist on you, then you can die from towers and avoid giving enemies some gold.

4. If you die, but deal a huge amount of damage to enemy demigods before death, you can get your team to kill the rest of them, so due to one sacrifice (you), enemy team can get wiped and their portals, etc. taken.

5. In team fights, try not to die first. If you must die, die after enemy demigod died. This way, that dead demigod won't get any gold (unless he kills you after his death), while you will.

So overall I mean that you can die if it is worthy. Assists give only half gold, so getting a kill while giving an assist can be good idea. Dying to avoid worse fate or to get better advantage is also great.

-------------------------------------------------------------- 10. CREDITS ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Credits goes to all players who helped me to test builds, talked to me and said their own opinions  (too many to list, so high chances that you probably helped me)

Special thanks to CowButtZex  Jona , and The Great Nomilarac (for teaching me, killing me and talking to me)

Forums with their strange lining of lines/columns + no tab function. for various numbers (faster than to look in game)


I hope I didn't make too many mistakes in here and didn't sound too boring, insulting, aggressive or any other similar way. Please be happy

Nimoth's Chest  
+21 Karma | 19 Replies
February 26, 2011 6:54:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I hate how those forums messed up the order of various things, but well... after several edits at least it looks so so...

February 27, 2011 3:33:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Darkliath,
after several edits at least it looks so so...

It looks HAWT!!!!!!!!!! Ill have to try the insane crazy hybrid thing sometime!

February 27, 2011 4:58:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Overall nice writeup, and dg matchup profiling. A worthy addition would be some staff of renewal builds, I think its great for Ice (spam) and I also prefer it over BotF on fire tb, but thats just my preference. 

February 27, 2011 5:20:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I was a bit too lazy to write lots of builds here (especially funny ones like auto attack tb, aura tb with amulet of teleportation, etc), because of stupid lining of columns in those forums. I copied them from notepad, and here they were completely messed up (all tabs were taken out), so had to manually change everything, which took loooots of time. I might add sometime later if I am not too lazy, but for now cannot

And to think more about Staff of Renewel... Probably it could be just another item for builds instead of BotF, Swift Anklet, BotS. Items or playstyle probably wouldn't change too much (being able to cast a bit more often all skills and use items). Do you agree? If not, I'd also have to think of an item build which uses its capabilities best


With demigod profiling part (which I did lastly) I was too lazy also, so it lacks some points (I may add later).

And thanks for reading (I doubt many people would read it)

February 27, 2011 6:03:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

nice write up! 

February 27, 2011 8:59:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Darkliath,
I was a bit too lazy to write lots of builds here (especially funny ones like auto attack tb, aura tb with amulet of teleportation, etc), because of stupid lining of columns in those forums. I copied them from notepad, and here they were completely messed up (all tabs were taken out), so had to manually change everything, which took loooots of time. I might add sometime later if I am not too lazy, but for now cannot

And to think more about Staff of Renewel... Probably it could be just another item for builds instead of BotF, Swift Anklet, BotS. Items or playstyle probably wouldn't change too much (being able to cast a bit more often all skills and use items). Do you agree? If not, I'd also have to think of an item build which uses its capabilities best


With demigod profiling part (which I did lastly) I was too lazy also, so it lacks some points (I may add later).

And thanks for reading (I doubt many people would read it)

Hmm I meant favor item instead of build, its about the same build but just with Staff of Renewal. The item choice you posted is the exact one I'd use , 1 helm like a boss 

Now to break down staff..
Staff works in subtle ways, and most cases you wont notice its benefit till lategame. In cataract and zikurat staff pays off in two ways throughout the game it lowers all of your cooldowns by 20% (tp more often,lock more often etc) and skill cooldown. Skill wise for ice TB it dramatically reduces his skill cooldowns which allows him to keep you in a Nova-Rain-Deep Freeze combo pressure (from level 5 up, devastating at level 15).

For fire.. its not as useful as for ice, removes 1 second from fireball cd, and a few seconds from fire nova (which can help late game where you rely on it for the 1.3k fb+800nova burst)

In a wider perspective, blood,blade and anklet are all solid picks. But I think staff in the hands of a smart TB such as yourself can be quite potent.

March 1, 2011 5:25:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hey, nice job! I love how you modestly called your thesis on TB "few things about him."

I feel like a university professor that gets credited in a PhD. Thesis for doing close to nothing , but thanks anyway Darkliath

Just a small thing, with hybrid builds i sometimes prefer getting Deep Freeze II before Fireball IV, since Fireball III is good enough already (1050 over 850 damage ain't that much) and deep Freeze II can f*ck up the enemy cooldowns in quite a better way than Deep Freeze I (160% over 130%, 6 seconds debuff duration over 5 secs). Too bad Deep Freeze gets ridiculously mana-expensive as you spec it up . Ah well.

I'm looking forward to see your crazy TB build in action, we want replays of it!

March 4, 2011 6:15:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Made some corrections to various places of guide + added a replay for that another Torch Bearer hybrid. Nothing special, but just build in action.

March 9, 2011 4:05:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

TB4L. all the TB love.

March 16, 2011 5:59:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great guide, but I take issue with one thing... upgrading Nimoth to Groffling.

The power of Groffling comes from stacking it with Nimoth, because it gives you an armor stack with life you can't do with other items, otherwise the money is just not worth it and you should save instead.


1500 Gold
500 Health
750 Armor

5200 Gold
675 Health
1200 Armor

You are paying 3700 gold for an extra 175 health and 450 armor. Bleah.

Together though
6700 Gold
1175 Health
1950 Armor

That is a pretty fantastic combo for any Demigod.

March 16, 2011 7:38:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You might be right. Don't know. Thanks for commenting and I might think about it later

Reasons why I do that:

I pay more than 3700, because for selling it, I don't get 1500. Take a look at bulwark. Paying so much and not getting that much of an upgrade also? Banded to Hauberk of Life (exact same item stats just upgraded) and their price? 550 and 1750. For 200 hp/5hp per sec and if general + some bonuses to minions, you have to pay more than triple price? By looking at Nimoth's and Groffling, it's very similar. Maybe a bit less of an upgrade, but still similar. Price, hp and armor + additional effect (I think it should proc a bit more often, but even like that it's better than nothing).

Torch Bearer is ranged demigod, so against melee, you mostly get damaged with skills.

It's not an ultra great item, but what could be better? More mana? - no. More speed? - no. More strange effects? - maybe. That's my oppinion though.

More defense later is needed, because of more auto attacking or if Rook spams tower farms, or if QoT/Erebus/Oak is in field, to not get such a terrifying debuff. Don't forget that additional shield effects. Not something too great, but still sometimes it appears (rook's arrows, many auto attacks or when chasing into multiple arrow towers, proc it more often).

Nimoth + Groffling. Yeah it is a good combo. However then we could compare. Hp + hp regen vs Hp + armor. I don't insert numbers as they are not too different. Hp ~ Hp. So it leaves hp regen vs armor. What do you do, when you stay with TB on lane and kill creeps, defend, etc? I regenerate hp/mana to full. Thus while staying long enough I don't need to go back to crystal at all (even while before being near critical health). 10 hp/s = 600 hp/min. Yes there might be monks, etc, what could make this effect less good. However again, what if your sigil rans out? 1hp or just very low hp and with low hp/s regen... You will not stay long enough usually, while some hp regen can heal you just that bit enough to get away from pursuing angel, etc. Well these are random specific situations, which not always occur, however they do sometimes. In battle of 1v1 that tiny bit of armor might be good, might be not. Depends on enemy's dps. 1v2 armor is better though as it reduces more damage faster than hp/s regens comparing to 1v1 situation.

Skills ignore armor. What if I am constantly sniped over and over? Armor gives me zero advantage and after a while I'll need to go back. Spit does same. All skills do same, while i like to stay in battle as long as possible (as I said previously, even when I am in critical need to go back, I'd prefer to stay long enough to be able to fight again at full strength without missing any exp, holding enemies, getting gold, protecting tower).

Without a monk nearby, hp regen or some sort of healing is a must for any assassin if he wants to hold a lane.

More armor doesn't reduce a lot more in 1v1 battles, but gives a lot bigger advantage in 1v2, because you receive less auto attack damage.

If at least one enemy demigod has Nature's reckoning, it completely ignoes defense, thus giving additional auto attacking problems, when armor doesn't help. Hp regen > armor here.

Towers. More armor can make strong enough to easily take a high tower in 1v1 with auto attack, but you can do the same with skills.

Armor helps against troops/minions, so against those it could be usefull. Torch Bearer cannot fight against troops easily without that? Fire nova? Frost Nova? Circle of Fire? I don't think he needs much of armor against them or else I'd replace something with Nature's Reckoning, however he doesn't get lots of benefits from additional 250 damage surprising aoe.

Armor works better with heals against auto attacking, because heal ignores armor, while auto attacks not, so with sedna in combo, it might be better to have two armors instead of additional hp regen. Can TB heal himself? - not exactly, so alone he has problems with armor stacking.

Groffling is expensive. So I need to get something else before it anyway and that means no double armor until late, unless I change with that trinket (bloodstone ring) +hp +armor. But I prefer Hauberk.


Nimoth's chest would be replaced soon anyway by that level, so even if it is better, it could be only for few minutes in combo with groffling's. Let's say. I have Nimoth's, Vlemish, Banded -> Journeyman's, Unbreakable boots and Hauberk of Life. And I can get Groffling's instead of something. I cannot take off Vlemish and Journeyman's. If I upgrade from Nimoth's. No disadvantage/small advantage. Hauberk of life - loss of 20 hp regen/ +750 more armor. Ubreakable boots - loss of some mana and hp regen/ +750 armor. If I change hauberk of life to that - ok.

Now just a bit later I can get Narmoth's ring. 800 hp, 20 hp regen and life steal. What should I sell? I prefer Nimoth's even though Unbreakable boots could be better if I knew how to count my mana perfectly.Maybe I shouldn't get this ring at all? Maybe.

Now another thing. I did some specific changes, which I should keep in my mind. I had +750 armor. Then had +1950. Then had +1200. It's easy to get used to different amount of hp as you always see it + know skill damage. What about armor? I go to tower got damaged ~300. Go there again - ~200. Go there again - ~250. Getting used to armor is not that easy, as you often have to get a first hit to understand the damage. What if it's crucial moment and with 240 hp you tried to give a finishing blow, but... because of tiny miscalculation when you sold more armor, you died?


Overall I think there's not much difference and it could be both better and worse. But generally I personally prefer not getting both of those with Torch Bearer (other demigods might have better uses, but I am not going to touch them here).

March 24, 2011 3:06:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Added one more replay to crazy hybrid build, added favor items part and have an odd question. Why people are not using Symbol of Purity?

March 27, 2011 3:31:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My opinion: Symbol of purity has too low of a life bonus.

It also does break silence which is really nifty

Purging negative effects is great, but if you need to worry about those, you need to worry about life more.

Ultimately you need to stay alive:
Blood is better
Cloak of Night is better

Sedna has her own purge, so the person who might get use out of it doesn't need it.
Oak sorta does, but as a frontline fighter Blood and Cloak are better
Queen always needs more life, so Blood is her only option.

My opinion is that if it had 400 life, it would be a GREAT item. 1/2 Blood life + purge = useable

In the next version of CrazyTown coming up soon.

Purity has 400 life

Also, ditto on all the above for Furious Blade

If it had a 400 life bonus as well, it would probably be a fantastic item.

April 13, 2011 3:58:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Added small update.

As for Symbol of Purity. If I can remove 1500 damage dealing spit + 800 damage + 60% slow dealing mark of Regulus + 30% slow dealing mines + tracker of Regulus, so he couldn't snipe after + Queen's armor debuf with spikes + slowing spikes and after all this survive the death just by running away... I think it is better than additional 550 hp, which would lead me to crucial and certain death. Against some combos, however it is completely useless.

June 30, 2011 12:43:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just wanted to say that I appreciate guides+discussion like this, especially when it includes Uberfix andCrazyTown comparisons as I enjoy both of those mods.  This one has definitey given me a solid perspective on a DG that I have often ignored for my own play.

Thanks again.

December 31, 2011 11:49:26 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

excellent writeup.

January 5, 2012 5:20:06 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Add an update on AA only TB!

January 9, 2012 5:41:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

aa only? Please explain what you ment by that?

January 9, 2012 6:16:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Most people don't know that Frost TB is the only demigod that can use Cape of Plentiful Mana outside of Leviathan

The reason being is the 12.5 mana per second perma frost provides.

Level 10 TB
Mana Regen: 7.7 mana / sec
Permfrost 3: 12.5 mana / sec
Vlemish: 15 mana / sec

Cape of Plentiful Mana
400% mana Regen / 10 seconds

TB Mana Bonus Ice Form
50% /15 seconds


35.2 mana /sec
450% for 10 seconds

1584 mana (basically you regen 1 plenor battlecrown in mana)

So, the second time you do this in the field, you are ahead of the game.

Cape's 400% regen also regenerates your allies who are within 8 radius of you when you fire the effect.

eg: If they have Vlemish and you have permafrost 3, they'll get 900 mana out of the regen.

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