The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

mid player wants advice

By on January 28, 2011 11:42:37 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i_am_memory

Join Date 12/2003
0

hello all, especially those pwning me recently.

well, I worked feverishly for my first 150 games to get a good stat.  It was easy to do because I was a noob, better than other noobs, and I held a 60%.  Plus I got some advice from someone (can't remember who, but I think it was whoever I_htya was before the new account) about a good occ build.  I was such a good noob that someone accused me of smurfing (I had to ask what that was).  Thought I was ready for the mid-level.

I think 150 games simply means you have now earned the right to get pounded by those who are really good!   I was good enough that no one was kicking me from games, but not good enough to contribute well.  As evidence of the increased competition, now my percent has slipped to 50 and it is because some subtle nuances have eluded me.  And I can't figure out what they are.

I can maul nightmare, but who can't exploit the ai?  I have read all the strat guides, even those before the game balance or new dg's.  I have watched replays.  I practice and work time-tested builds.  I've picked the brains of those better than me.  But something is eluding me, and I don't know what it is.

Where else to look?  send me advice, plz.  Is it just a matter of more games (ie, a 200 game mid cannot hope to compete with a 2000 game mid, so play 1800 more and then we'll talk)?

Time to get away from occ?  like work on my oak/erb/ub skills?

Get on vent with someone?

I want to contribute more and dislike being the weakest link on my team.  And I don't want to slip below 50%!  Thanks in advance.

Locked Post 15 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 12:15:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

And I don't want to slip below 50%!

stop playing the game immediately!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 12:35:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Occ is still useable in high level games, but his lack of group-utility besides massive amounts of damage can hurt him without coordinated teams.

I would say start playing Ereb/Oak/UB/Rook more. Not just so that you only play them, but so once you play them then you understand how they move and their weaknesses a bit better. Know thy enemy? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 12:42:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmm... Vent really helps, but not so many people are online (well except at US time). And if you read most guides, watched replays, etc, I don't even know what more to suggest without knowing well how you play... Come play with me some games, and I might see some slight mistakes, etc. As about demigods, do you play only Oculus? He doesn't have  an interrupt, so it's a slight disadvantage (enemy can use pot in front of you or tp out if no teammates help).

Slipping below 50%... Well personally I don't care about this thing

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 2:02:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

MEMORY!!! Hey bud. I really like your Occ. You even came up in a talk I was having with I_htya’s old account about good newer people. You are improving at rapid rate. I would say stick with the Occ a little bit longer. I don’t have a whole lot of advice to give on the forum but I would say if you really want to improve 1v1 is where you learn the most. You might get stomped a little but it lets you focus on your skills without having to worry about everything else around you. It also gives you more time to chat. Usually the people that play the 1v1’s are more experienced and willing to help. Just let them know you want to learn.

Advice for Occ and some general advice--

Make sure you are killing grunts on EVERY creep wave. Try your hardest not to let them die to the tower and don’t ever walk away from them even if someone is yelling MID MID kill’um first then go capture mid.

If you are sharing a lane with someone let the creeps get closer in before you chain so you can share exp with your partner but you still get the money for the kill (I think that’s how it works. Still not sure exactly how the money works and I don’t feel like reading it again but that’s what I do haha.)

If you are in a solo lane trading off capturing exp flag and mana flag try to find the right rhythm where you can chain YOUR side of the creep wave while you are capturing mid. Just move a little forward and chain them then continue capturing mid. What this does is now when you go back to capture mana flag and your opponent trades to capture mid he will miss the entire creep wave because the grunts don’t have to fight each other at the flag they will just run straight to tower and die. Now if he stays there to kill the grunts and hold the flag he has to fight you and a creep wave so you can still overpower him. At the very least he can still sit by tower and get exp from them but you are still denying him money if he’s not able to attack the wave directly.

When a creep wave is running in by a side tower always try to hit the tower with your chain first and the rest will kill the creep wave. Little stuff like this adds up. I used to just hope the tower would get hit somewhere in there but now I focus that tower first as much as possible with chain (learned that in a 1v1 thanks buddy)

My primary goal early(maybe even the whole game) is to level up. If a kill comes it comes. I even hate having to teleport to save someone because that means I’m going to miss at least 2 creep waves. Just always keep it on your mind.

Learn your Double butt jump with blast off. It hits on the way up and on the way down. It’s very powerful and most people just ignore it or can’t help it because they have to come in and melee you. Learn when to use it and when to save it for escape. And also experiment with the range on it. You don’t have to be right on top of someone and jump straight up and down for it to double hit. You can actually jump a little forward or little back if you need to. I’m still playing with that a little not exactly sure about the range. It shows a double cast area ring around you when you are using it. Just play with it.

Fun stuff: Try to jump over boulder rolls. Well I think I’ve tried it a bunch and it may not be possible but what I did find out is that you can usually avoid some stuns by jumping slightly diagonally towards the boulder. It’s not really jumping over but jumping out of the way and if close enough you can still double hit rooks big ass.

Well that’s about for here. Forget our little competition. Hit me up in game sometime. We can play a game then watch the replay together and chat about it or somethin.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 2:05:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

I would say start playing Ereb/Oak/UB/Rook more. Not just so that you only play them, but so once you play them then you understand how they move and their weaknesses a bit better. Know thy enemy? 

This is great advice. Learn their cooldowns so you know when they can really hurt you and when they can't.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 2:21:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm a relative noob, too. Started in October 2010, a grand total of ~400 games on all accs combined. I was in your position. As a noob, I was amazing, then the mids started to beat the crap out of me. 

The only way to get better is to play with/vs really strong players. Do not be afraid to be pwn3d, forget about that win %. One game with or versus, say, Zen_God will contribute much more to your evolution as a player than dozens of guides and replays. Do not neglect the theory and the math, of course, but remember practice >>> theory. The top-tier players are friendly as a rule, and will be willing to coach you. IMHO, Renz (renz0kuken/Defender___) is probably the friendliest and the most positive top-tier 'coach' you can find. Orcun is superb, too, but I never catch him online, so... Cow (OMG_ZEX) can also be great if you are US (he's also one of the two best Occ players around, so you might be especially interested in him). If you are EU, both Kira and ppapanek are great players and very nice guys. I'm sure they can give you some advice after the match.

Overall, the most important skill that distinguishes noob from mid from pro is not individual skill with any given DG, but map awareness, followed by game dynamics understanding (timing the upgrades, using momentum to the maximum).

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 4:26:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The biggest thing your probably having problems with is over all map awareness and late game mechanics.

Map awareness deals with know where everyone is on the map at all times, ask yourself questions like this.

  • Where are my teammates?
  • Who are my teammates Fighting?
  • Where is the missing guy on the other team I cannot see right now?
  • What flags do we have?
  • What HP's are my teammates at?
  • Can I teleport to my teammate to help them if they get in a bad situation?
  • Can I teleport somewhere to help my teammate kill someone?
  • Where are the enemy demigods located on the map right now?
  • Is that guy shopping or in the fog of war?
  • Does my teammate have a monk?

If your not constantly asking these questions your map awareness needs to be worked on.

Late game mechanics (after both teams have giants and you have tons of cash) are very unique compared to the rest of the game. Prioritize these things during late game.

  • Watch your portals like a hawk, if you lose one you lose the game
  • Portal pressure on your opponent, make him have to use Teleports and locks to defend the portal flags
  • HP flag
  • Buying J-boots, orb of defiance, or a cheaper artifact before citadel upgrades
  • pushing the middle of the map, do some AoE burst damage on enemy creep waves to keep your creeps pushing toward there citadel, after there middle is destroyed pressure there flag infront of there citadel.
  • Any opportunity to kill someone must be maximized. Atleast make them sigil or a teammate port in to save them.
  • If there seems to be a pattern going on or a rhythem that the other team has do something different to change the tempo of the match.
  • Pimp out UB, buy him bulwark of ages.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 5:21:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The biggest thing your probably having problems with is over all map awareness and late game mechanics.

probably the case.  Might be good to watch some of the replays from the last tournament to see what we mean by late game mechanics. 

And just re: the basic stuff - sort out who is getting cur1 and fs1 asap so its covered.  Generally not an issue in mid games, but communicating about that early is important. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 6:43:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oh and get your display mods if you don't have them. It's a huge help knowing what everyone on your team has as equipment/items and hp/mana levels. And especially handy with Occ and sed to know who needs that Brainstorm or heal.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 6:47:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Oh and get your display mods if you don't have them.

Agreed!

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399399

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 28, 2011 8:24:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The biggest thing your probably having problems with is over all map awareness and late game mechanics.

Wow! Great summary!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 29, 2011 12:57:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

To All,

much thanks for the advice.  I've already downloaded the mods, and they made a big difference in my knowledge of my team.  Still lost, but did better with the mods.  Judicious use of occ's brain power helped my oak and rook teammates a ton.  We were dominating. Invalid game state didn't record the win.  Then lost to I_Htya and Papa in next game!  But that was expected, and I played better than expected.

To Nooblet:

Quoting a_nooblet,

And I don't want to slip below 50%!

stop playing the game immediately!

I've set my new threshold to 47%.  lol

 

To Brasher:

thanks for your time on this post.  You gave me 30 minutes of your time, and I appreciate it.  Hadn't thought about working the lane like that.  Makes sense.  Hadn't thought about 1v1 like that, either.  Got the mods, thanks.  How about some 1v1 sometime?  I'll pm you.

 

Quoting brasher_01,
Forget our little competition.
 Well, I made the competition in order to set a high bar for myself.  It's a good goal, and entertaining.  And you're a good sport.

 

To In-1 and Zex:

Thanks much for the posts and time.  You are correct on both counts: my end game is futile right now (with uncertainty and indecision); my map awareness is less than it should be.  I had been spending on creep upgrades (bs, arm), but now will move towards arts.  Zex, thanks for breaking down your two suggestions; I will be re-reading these.

 

And Pacov, thanks for the executable.  Flawless.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
January 29, 2011 1:48:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You are correct on both counts: my end game is futile right now (with uncertainty and indecision) [...] I had been spending on creep upgrades (bs, arm), but now will move towards arts.

I had the same problem some time ago. It's not an easy mental shift to make, but yeah... in skilled games, after giants you are better off stocking on artifacts + monitoring portals non-stop. In noob matches, creeps will do the job for you, so it's basically 'giant rush' strategy. Remember, a victory on Cata is sometimes a matter of one successful enemy portal locking attempt, especially if the opposing team has Oak  Life's not fair

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 19, 2011 1:02:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting brasher_01,
 Little stuff like this adds up. I used to just hope the tower would get hit somewhere in there but now I focus that tower first as much as possible with chain (learned that in a 1v1 thanks buddy)

.

 

YOU'RE WELCOME =D 

 

Where've you been man? haven't seen you in a long time. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 19, 2011 1:23:53 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

yeah - brash has been a ghost for bit.  BOOOOOOO!!!!

You should at least come back for the occasional tournament (running them every 2 weeks now)

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #101114  walnut1   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000469   Page Render Time: