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In urgent need of Cowbuttwisdom

(Oculus-related)

By on December 26, 2010 9:56:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dlarimit

Join Date 10/2010
+20

How do you play your Oculus, Cow? Skill progression, items, etc. Uberfix/no uberfix possible changes. You know the drill.

In fact, I'd ask Shane the same question, but I'm afraid of him!

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December 26, 2010 9:20:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Lol talk to me on vent some time.

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December 27, 2010 12:35:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Np, I'll try to catch you there

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December 27, 2010 12:38:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i took a quick look for his old thread, but couldn't find.  Didn't cow post a build in his consolidated thread?  Just curious in case its already out there for u. 

mcshane's and cows occ differ a bit in playstyle.  Builds... not quite that much, but play style, yes. 

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December 27, 2010 12:48:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No, he has only assassins + pseudo-assassin Oak here.

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December 27, 2010 6:16:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Judging by the replays, pro Occ Cow/Shane style is BotF, Chain Lightning, Blast Off, Brain Storm. Is it possible to take King of Minotaurs to compensate for hp loss and Cloak of Night to secure double Blast Off damage? Or not viable?

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December 27, 2010 7:16:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'd ask Shane the same question, but I'm afraid of him!

Lol

Is it possible to take King of Minotaurs to compensate for hp loss and Cloak of Night to secure double Blast Off damage? Or not viable?

I usually prefer to play with cloak of night, but because we were mirror matching every game I had to use a different style.  I used cloak in the first one and we lost because I was too cautious about jumping into the middle of the action with my low HP.  Those replays though aren't what you'd normally see because I got currency 3 both games, only because I assumed it would be a long game and knew my amazing teammates would take advantage of it (90% of teammates won't). So even with blood I had to play defensively but it gave me enough HP for the important fights. In a pug game I'd almost always go cloak and gank constantly.  Early brain storm isn't a huge priority when there's no uberfix so more King of Minotaurs might be nice.  The games against zen_gods team are how I like to play, most Occulus' go blood no matter what the situation though. 

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December 27, 2010 7:24:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 Thanks a lot Shane, that answers a lot of questions! I'll watch the replays vs Zen_God's team to see your usual style.

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December 27, 2010 12:31:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My fav. occ build:  BotF  (cloak can be nice but it affects staying power)

  1. Blast off
  2. chain
  3. KoM
  4. chain
  5. bs
  6. blast off
  7. chain
  8. blast off
  9. hold
  10. chain + blast off
  11. BS

After 11 you can either go with more KoM or lightning.  The balls are pretty good when max leveled but pretty much suck before then.

  1. monks
  2. scaled + banded
  3. plenor
  4. unbreakables
  5. vlemish
  6. nimoths or hauberk (i tend to get hauberk if there is an aoe on the other team that takes out the monks)
  7. bishops
  8. hungarlings (replace vlemish) - best purchased when opposing a rook.

 

 

 

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December 27, 2010 12:59:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks, Jon, that's helpful.

About those balls... Any special tactics to their use? Yes, I understand the benefit of maxing this tree out by lvl 15, but how do I use those exploding balls efficiently?

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December 27, 2010 3:51:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG__IN1,
Thanks, Jon, that's helpful.

About those balls... Any special tactics to their use? Yes, I understand the benefit of maxing this tree out by lvl 15, but how do I use those exploding balls efficiently?

With the level 15 ability, when the balls hit the ground, they detonate. I'm not sure if they still detonate if they are destroyed by damage or not, but that's generally not an issue (as you likely have hauberks and no one is direct targeting the LB.  Anyway, you can force the detonation by summoning another set of lightning balls.  Once you resummon then, its about 1 second until the original balls hit the ground and detonate.  Then its just rinsing and repeating.  So, if possible, summon them just before you go into battle.  Get them where the conflict is going on, and resummon immediately. 

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December 27, 2010 4:58:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good stuff. I just started playing Occ, too. I’m finding he only has one spare point to be used before level 15. It’s either level 1 KoM or Brainstorm. This gets your Exploding lightning balls and electrocution right at 15. KoM is cool to buff you up a little bit especially early game. That 500 extra mana is good but I find myself saving the point for brainstorm. I really like getting in both level 15 skills in at 15 so it’s either one or the other. I may add in KoM at 3 and push back electrocution to level 16 but this is what I’ve been toying with so far: 

  1. Chain/Blast
  2. Blast/Chain
  3. Save (or get your KoM 1 and push back your electrocution to level 16)
  4. Chain 2/ Blast 2
  5. Brainstorm
  6. Save
  7. Chain 3/ Blast 3
  8. Save (You can start your level 1 lightning ball here but…why?)
  9. Save
  10. Chain 4/Blast 4
  11. Lightning ball (LB) 1 & 2
  12. LB 3
  13. LB 4
  14. Save
  15. Electrocution/ Explode
  16. Whatever… Brainstorm KoM

I don't even use the lightning balls untill 15. I'm going to see if they are any good before that. It says they add rate of fire increase but I havent really looked at it.

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December 28, 2010 1:05:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks, Pacov! I guessed I am supposed to suicide the balls non-stop, since otherwise their performance is really sub-par.

Thanks, Brasher! Yours is a Uberfix-only build, though, as Electrocution does not work w/o it.

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December 28, 2010 1:09:35 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks, Pacov! I guessed I am supposed to suicide the balls non-stop, since otherwise their performance is really sub-par.

exactly - spam at level 15.  The faster the better.  Folks generally don't see or plan for the extra ball damage so its a pretty big op at level 15... well, as much as big kill ops occur at lv15 anyway in a reasonably matched game.  On the bright side, occ can level pretty quick and get to 15 before most dgs if you play it right.  That said, as you likey won't have summoned a single ball lightning until lv15, you have a brief surprize available.  The only other dg I pay close attention to their level in a competitive game is ub (well, pretty much i always watch the other teams ub so I'm aware the second they hit 15). 

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December 28, 2010 1:34:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, yeah, but the ultimate lightning balls are just nice, while Acclimation is simply game-breaking. I don't think I've ever won a single match with a UB-less team vs a UB-enhanced team, unless our team had a smashing advantage before the UB hit level 15. I'm talking about skilled matches, of course.

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December 28, 2010 1:42:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I don't understand how on Earth UB-only players don't ever get bored (especially the good ones: Iz, Kira -- well, okay, Kira is 50/50 UB/TB...). I know for a fact that Renz and doggu are usually quite annoyed when they see they are forced to pick UB. I think the only situation when I can justify picking a UB for a pro player vs a UB-less team is playing with one or two newbies on a team.

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December 28, 2010 10:26:40 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG__IN1,
I don't understand how on Earth UB-only players don't ever get bored (especially the good ones: Iz, Kira -- well, okay, Kira is 50/50 UB/TB...). I know for a fact that Renz and doggu are usually quite annoyed when they see they are forced to pick UB. I think the only situation when I can justify picking a UB for a pro player vs a UB-less team is playing with one or two newbies on a team.

Well, I don't know how someone could avoid getting bored just playing the same dg over and over period.  Guys like paint used to love play reg and only reg - jon loved oak and only oak.  Took those guys hundreds and hundreds of games to branch out and start using a diff dg.  That would bore the crap out of me. 

That said, if you could only play 1 dg that fits in just about every combo, ub certainly works.  Acclimation is strong, no doubt, but I've never felt it fits as being game breaking or crazy op.  I don't think you must have a ub to counter a ub, though.  Its all a bit situational really.  If you are against oak/erb/ub then you very likely want a ub.   But vs other combos its not always necessary.  But then again, I enjoy my random assassin games where I end up fighting 3 ubs as reg/tb/da.  Just because a level 15 ability is quite strong certainly wouldn't make me choose ub.  I think that sometimes folks see a ub and decide they must have one, without taking into account the talent level of the players in game.  Kind of a knee jerk reaction like WIP would make in the past where he'd refuse to play if someone on his team choose a dg that he felt made the team a weaker combo.  Anyway, bottom line - sometimes you have to take a ub to counter, but I'd argue that its not necessary 100% of the time in a fairly matched game. 

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December 28, 2010 11:01:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_pacov,

Quoting OMG__IN1, reply 15I don't understand how on Earth UB-only players don't ever get bored (especially the good ones: Iz, Kira -- well, okay, Kira is 50/50 UB/TB...). I know for a fact that Renz and doggu are usually quite annoyed when they see they are forced to pick UB. I think the only situation when I can justify picking a UB for a pro player vs a UB-less team is playing with one or two newbies on a team.
Well, I don't know how someone could avoid getting bored just playing the same dg over and over period.  Guys like paint used to love play reg and only reg - jon loved oak and only oak.  Took those guys hundreds and hundreds of games to branch out and start using a diff dg.  That would bore the crap out of me. 

 

because you lack love for your demigod pacov! When you love your demigod, you need no other!

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December 28, 2010 11:10:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting brasher_01,


Chain/Blast
Blast/Chain
Save (or get your KoM 1 and push back your electrocution to level 16)
Chain 2/ Blast 2
Brainstorm
Save
Chain 3/ Blast 3
Save (You can start your level 1 lightning ball here but…why?)
Save
Chain 4/Blast 4
Lightning ball (LB) 1 & 2
LB 3
LB 4
Save
Electrocution/ Explode
Whatever… Brainstorm KoM

I don't even use the lightning balls untill 15. I'm going to see if they are any good before that. It says they add rate of fire increase but I havent really looked at it.

 

I used to use this build but then started getting branstorm at 5 & 11 and kom at 3.  This puts off getting blast off II for an additional level but it really helps.

The KOM and brainstorm really help with mana management and provide a lot of staying power so you dont have to return to the shop as much. 

 

 

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December 28, 2010 11:17:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm going to have to look at that electrocution again. I am certain that I have seen +0's on regen when used on me. I still don't think I would change much. Exploding balls at 15 are awesome. KoM isn't really a game changer so I'm still having trouble adding it in there untill later. The 500 mana is great but the thing I don't like about KoM early is that you still have your monks get fried every few seconds. I can usually micro them pretty well and its even better when your teammate knows how to control them but sometimes they just die at the wrong time. If electrocution really doesn't work then I might save that extra point for BS 2. I've been using magnus rod and BS2 works great with it.  Or just KoM at 3 but definetly get the exploding balls at 15. Who else in the game can add a 1k+ nuke at 15. I just can't say enough about these exploding balls.............wait...............what?!!!

I'm pretty sure the LB deal damage as soon as resummoned, no waiting needed. Them dropping to ground is just the death animation but they are already dead.

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December 28, 2010 11:27:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_Jongalt26,


I used to use this build but then started getting branstorm at 5 & 11 and kom at 3.  This puts off getting blast off II for an additional level but it really helps.

The KOM and brainstorm really help with mana management and provide a lot of staying power so you dont have to return to the shop as much. 

  

Cool, cool. I do like the extra mana. I'll have to look at it again. I'm just on the fence now about KoM 1 at level 3 or BS 2 at 11. OK, you can only pick 1, you have magnus rod at BS 2, which do you choose?

Can someone link to a skill tree or something? I can never find them. What's the difference on BS1 and BS2 mana cost and net mana gain?

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December 28, 2010 12:37:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think that sometimes folks see a ub and decide they must have one, without taking into account the talent level of the players in game.  Kind of a knee jerk reaction like WIP would make in the past where he'd refuse to play if someone on his team choose a dg that he felt made the team a weaker combo.  Anyway, bottom line - sometimes you have to take a ub to counter, but I'd argue that its not necessary 100% of the time in a fairly matched game. 

Wip still has extremely strong feelings towards QoT I remember one game, where he got stuck with Darkliath as QoT #1 and... cannot remember whom, but it was an experienced player, as QoT #2 chosen via Random DG option. The remarks he made into the All chat for the first 5 minutes of the match really made my day

About UB vs. UB not always a necessity in a fairly matched game... Unless we consider Zen/Kira/Mith vs Shane/Orcun/Renz unfairly matched, the second match between those teams in this tourney is quite a conclusive evidence to the contrary, I think. UB can be a great way to balance things when the second team is weaker, though. I'm not a "NO UB, PLS" guy, by any means.

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December 28, 2010 1:43:04 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

About UB vs. UB not always a necessity in a fairly matched game... Unless we consider Zen/Kira/Mith vs Shane/Orcun/Renz unfairly matched, the second match between those teams in this tourney is quite a conclusive evidence to the contrary, I think.

Evenly matched games are not the same at all levels of play.  noob v noob, mid v mid, expert v expert.  All are different.  Just saying. 

UB can be a great way to balance things when the second team is weaker, though. I'm not a "NO UB, PLS" guy, by any means.

fair enough

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December 28, 2010 1:59:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG__IN1,
I'm not a "NO UB, PLS" guy, by any means.

I am. Him and rook are probably my 2 best DGs but I'm sooooo tired of playing them and I hate seeing them in every friggin game. I'm a "NO UB. NO ROOK, PLS" guy myself. heh

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December 28, 2010 2:37:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Evenly matched games are not the same at all levels of play.  noob v noob, mid v mid, expert v expert.  All are different.  Just saying. 

Well, we won't discuss noob v noob here: weird shit is happening during those matches. Most games and players I play with and against are mid+ by your US-centric taxonomy, I suppose That's perfectly all right, though a lot of them got much higher grades from Renz (was curious as to adequacy of my nooby impressions). However, some of the Russian guys (Dreamcatcher, Seawolf, Al-t, McLoover, Akumrise), Iz, doggu, ppapanek, renz are surely expert in my book. On that skill level (call it whatever you like), the same game flowchart I've witnessed in that second Zen vs McOrcenz match applies: the UB-less team is doing fine until late game, and can even have a good lead in kills and warscore, then the UB hits 15, and if he gets Bulwark - well, gg. If he doesn't, it just becomes harder, but still manageable. Good teams feed their UB items, though, so...

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December 28, 2010 2:54:52 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

As you like - I'd wager we are generally agreeing here, though. 

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