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Why did Microsoft kill PC gaming with it's own xbox?

By on October 18, 2010 12:46:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

     Yeah I know pc gaming isnt dead....but take away ports, and you don't have enough pc releases to sustain a monthy magazine review section. They couldnt be satisfied owning the software end of gaming (windows) they needed to own the hardware itself...the xbox.

     Windows has to be the largest user base in the world, why wouldnt Microsoft just utilize this and squeeze Playstation out of existence? The graphics would be better, not be limited to the constant state of the xbox/360 hardware.

     The situation is so dire that CPU magazine which is for PC power users, has to review xbox/playstation 3 games in their game section. What's the point of all these uber machines if we are just playing ports? Every game feels the affect of this, whether dumbed down, or graphics lowered down so they can run on the lower end consoles.

+19 Karma | 87 Replies
October 18, 2010 1:08:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The reason consoles win this war, is because the are uniform, standard.  If Elemental was a console game, it wouldn't have been so buggy, as the big problem was how varied PCs are.  That's the trouble with creating a new PC game, accounting for all the different Pcs out there instead of a standard console.  IMHO.

October 18, 2010 1:32:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Consoles are plug and play. With PC's there's a chance you might actually have to do something to get the thing to work. For the average idiot in America that's too complicated.

October 18, 2010 1:54:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Some consoles are really, really buggy.  You've never played anything by SNK.

 

Also, PC's are doing fine. 

October 18, 2010 2:24:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

To make more money.

October 18, 2010 2:40:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Cashing in on another market. Even IF the pc market gets reduced by 50%, if they can snatch 50% of the console market as well, they'll end up ahead.

October 18, 2010 2:47:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's not like the console market would have disapeared if Microsoft hadn't released the Xbox. It would just have meant greater market shares for the other console designers.

October 18, 2010 4:26:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

MS didn't kill PC gaming. Publishers who are incredibly tight-fisted now are trying to kill it. They only green-light console games first because they know they can be rapidly developed. Then they green light PC games, but only give a minimum amount of time to ship it. So we end up with good console games, and absolutely fucking terrible ports.

When publishers have driven the current gen of titles into the ground, and the products console gamers get offered keep sucking more and more (Read as: Medal of Honor), eventually someone with the purse stings is going to ask why they quit green lighting original PC development...and the cycle will start anew.

October 18, 2010 4:49:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
The reason consoles win this war, is because the are uniform, standard.  If Elemental was a console game, it wouldn't have been so buggy, as the big problem was how varied PCs are.  That's the trouble with creating a new PC game, accounting for all the different Pcs out there instead of a standard console.  IMHO.

If Elemental was a console game, it wouldn't have been made. You see a lot of 4X console games? The control scheme, severe system memory limits, lack of real update capabilities and lack of modding pretty much kill it.

 

 

Microsoft got into this market originally because the belief was that living room entertainment hub devices would take over from PCs in the home, and they wanted to be in on it. That in itself wasn't a bad idea, and you'd think with the platform similarities they could leverage their influence in both markets to make some really great cross-platform stuff happen. GFWL was based around that idea, and the concept of letting PC gamers and Xbox games play against each other (and thus create a larger pool of games and let you play with your friends regardless of device) is a good idea.

Unfortunately the corporate culture at Microsoft is a total mess and there's no real firm direction. As has also been seen with their phone offerings (particularly the massive failure of the Kin project), they suffer from constant direction changes by whatever whim the department manager has right now. GFWL was designed by the Xbox guys without serious input from the PC guys at Microsoft... and then they made the first game to use it Vista only for no reason except to try and drive Vista sales. When that bombed in spectacular fashion, the whole thing was thrown off the rails.

Right now they alternate back and forth between caring and not caring about PC games, and the mixed messages have just further confused things. But don't worry, by all accounts they've screwed up nicely with Kinect too (hence the $300 million marketing campaign).

October 18, 2010 7:05:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Right now they alternate back and forth between caring and not caring about PC games, and the mixed messages have just further confused things. But don't worry, by all accounts they've screwed up nicely with Kinect too (hence the $300 million marketing campaign).

Interesting, I've now heard three different numbers for how much they're spending on marketing Kinect; $300, $400, and $500 million. I don't see why spending that amount of money indicates Kinect will fail. Given their past with phones, as you mentioned, I would think that if they see Kinect as a failure they would quickly drop it and try to sweep it under the rug. They could be trying to hype it up to the point that everyone has to have one, but I don't get that sense.

Mind you, I still think Kinect will fail, but because it is overpriced. It's a pretty cool piece of technology, and it wins points over Move for not being a shameless copy of the Wii, but $150 is just too much. If Microsoft agreed with me on this, though, I don't think they would be planning to spend so much marketing it.

Anyway, to get to the point of the OP, I don't think Microsoft (willfully) tried to harm PC gaming. Consoles in general just have more advantages that make them more attractive (not to say PCs don't have advantages, they just aren't as big in comparision).

Xia already mentioned uniformity, and this is huge. On consoles, developers don't have to spend a lot of time and money making sure their games work on a wide range of configurations, and players don't have to worry about meeting any sort of minimum requirements. Some will argue that is just console gamers being lazy and stupid *coughMylescough* but when most people just want to blow something up/kill something/raise an empire/etc they don't want to bother making sure their graphics card is compatible, or that their drivers are updated to the right version, or that their brand of mouse is compatible with the game (I've had a problem with a game where it didn't recognize the scroll wheel on my mouse, so I couldn't zoom). Consoles make everything easier; PC gamers are just used to it being hard

The next big advantage in favor of consoles is price. Yes, PCs can be used for more than just gaming, but that doesn't change the fact that they are more expensive. Look at it from the prospective of a parent (ie, the people buying games without doing significant research) buying for a kid's birthday/Christmas/whatever; you can buy them a $700 PC or a $200 Wii. Which would you choose to buy for your kid? It doesn't help that consoles are slowly adding capabilities that were previously exclusive to PCs, like streaming video from Netflix or other places and surfing the web. Throw on a printer, word processor, and a keyboard and you could do pretty much everything with an Xbox 360 that most people use their PC for.

Again, all of that is not to say that PC gaming is inheritly inferior to console gaming or that PCs do not have their advantages. It's just that from a developer and publisher standpoint, the advantages of consoles (low price, uniformity, stability) outweigh the PC advantages (modding, openness). Modding is great, but except in very rare cases it's not going to move units of a game very significantly.

None of this would change if the Xbox had never been released. Microsoft is not (and was not) trying to kill PC gaming, but it hasn't done much to help it either.

October 18, 2010 7:13:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Consoles and PC Gamess appeal to different markets.  Consoles are for people who don't like to mess around; they just want the games!  PCs are for people who don't mind tinkering, or who actually enjoy tinkering.  Consoles being so successful is a product of the ease of development and the controlled environment; I can make a PC Game and pour hundreds of thousands of man hours into making it work on as many PCs as possible, or I can make a game for the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 that will work on every console.  Piracy also plays into this somewhat, as Piracy on the PC is as simple as Googling "[Game]+Torrent" where as on the consoles it requires third-party physical modification.

October 18, 2010 8:17:51 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'd say Microsoft is indeed interested in eliminating the PC game market and replace it with consoles only. After all they sell the 360s, not the pcs.  They are not interested in Windows as anything but a business productivity base, not a gaming one.  They don't benefit from windows PC games being sold, unlike 360 consoles and games sold.  They get lots of earnings licensing the 360 to console game makers. Not so with PC game makers.

October 18, 2010 8:29:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd say Microsoft is indeed interested in eliminating the PC game market and replace it with consoles only. After all they sell the 360s, not the pcs.  They are not interested in Windows as anything but a business productivity base, not a gaming one.  They don't benefit from windows PC games being sold, unlike 360 consoles and games sold.  They get lots of earnings licensing the 360 to console game makers. Not so with PC game makers.

DirectX would like to have several words with you.

You wanna know what would drive the PC market into Apple's corner the fastest? Ignoring the potential of PC gaming on Windows. You still have to wait for Mac ports and most games rarely bother with that. MS has a monopoly on PC gaming...and its not the type to squander a monopoly. They've just had several, mostly unsuccessful attempts, to do the same thing to PC gaming that they did to standard OSes. Games For Windows Live is dead, and has died once before this already. Right now MS is trying to find a way to bring the same level of control to PC gaming as they have with consoles and the OS market. But the nature of a PC under cuts that, because unlike consoles, PC users have options. Lots and lots of options.

If they can develop a platform that people view as indispensable as their OS when it comes to gaming...unfortunately for them, they're several years behind the curve on the PC side of that.

October 18, 2010 8:39:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Microsoft is looking at different avenues with the PC Gaming scene.  PC Gaming is no longer the focus of the industry and won't be again.  This is simple evolution.  One of the better things of recent years from Microsoft is the continual development of the XNA Framework, promoting independant developers and assisting them with tech that works on both the Xbox 360 and the PC Platform and handles a lot of the crap that trips up most aspiring developers.  I feel that Microsoft is treated as the bad guys more often than they deserve.

October 18, 2010 9:13:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

why are people saying the Kinect will fail?  I for one plan on purchasing it?  Too expensive? please... the vaulted wii forces you to pay over $100 alone just to get a wii fit.  You do not see people having issues with that...in fact when it came out stores could not keep it in stock.  The long term price of a Kinect and xbox device and the wii are very similar when you start looking at the add on devices for the wii.  It will come down to perceived value...I think the price matches the value but others may not...we will see but I for one think it will be huge this hoilday season.

October 18, 2010 9:25:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GCFL,
why are people saying the Kinect will fail?  I for one plan on purchasing it?  Too expensive? please... the vaulted wii forces you to pay over $100 alone just to get a wii fit.  You do not see people having issues with that...in fact when it came out stores could not keep it in stock.  The long term price of a Kinect and xbox device and the wii are very similar when you start looking at the add on devices for the wii.  It will come down to perceived value...I think the price matches the value but others may not...we will see but I for one think it will be huge this hoilday season.

What it is worth depends on the games that use it, and use it well. Currently there is only one game series that might use it in away that the other controllers cannot do just as well, and it has been awhile since a game was released for it. It was also a series of PC game. The series I refer to is the Black and White series.

October 18, 2010 9:25:40 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Nenjin,

I'd say Microsoft is indeed interested in eliminating the PC game market and replace it with consoles only. After all they sell the 360s, not the pcs.  They are not interested in Windows as anything but a business productivity base, not a gaming one.  They don't benefit from windows PC games being sold, unlike 360 consoles and games sold.  They get lots of earnings licensing the 360 to console game makers. Not so with PC game makers.


DirectX would like to have several words with you.

You wanna know what would drive the PC market into Apple's corner the fastest? Ignoring the potential of PC gaming on Windows. You still have to wait for Mac ports and most games rarely bother with that. MS has a monopoly on PC gaming...and its not the type to squander a monopoly. They've just had several, mostly unsuccessful attempts, to do the same thing to PC gaming that they did to standard OSes. Games For Windows Live is dead, and has died once before this already. Right now MS is trying to find a way to bring the same level of control to PC gaming as they have with consoles and the OS market. But the nature of a PC under cuts that, because unlike consoles, PC users have options. Lots and lots of options.

If they can develop a platform that people view as indispensable as their OS when it comes to gaming...unfortunately for them, they're several years behind the curve on the PC side of that.

 

I knew someone would mention directx.  I skipped it to see who.  DirectX's latest iteractions have had really less than stellar mainstream numbers. DirectX on the pc has been lately research for the final target which is the 360.  Afterall, the original name of the Xbox was the DirectXbox.  I say they are only interested in pushing for more console gaming, since it's a closed system they can control.  The only thing they could do for PC gaming, in a very Microsoft way would be to buy another PC gaming distribution solution, like Steam.

October 18, 2010 9:40:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Buying Steam is the most logical thing anyone has mentioned MS doing. I think Gabe wouldn't sell though; not unless MS offered him a billion or so.

I guess my point is though, MS already has the PC market cornered through both the OS and intermediaries. And as was said, the industry loves a standard, even if it's an imperfect one. Short of someone else developing a DirectX replacement that doesn't work for MS....they don't have to worry. \

October 18, 2010 9:45:53 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Nenjin,
Buying Steam is the most logical thing anyone has mentioned MS doing. I think Gabe wouldn't sell though; not unless MS offered him a billion or so.

I guess my point is though, MS already has the PC market cornered through both the OS and intermediaries. And as was said, the industry loves a standard, even if it's an imperfect one. Short of someone else developing a DirectX replacement that doesn't work for MS....they don't have to worry. \

DirectX could do with some competition in the 3d programming interface.  Anyone remember when games ran best and only best when running with Glide?

October 18, 2010 9:56:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting coreimpulse,

DirectX could do with some competition in the 3d programming interface.  Anyone remember when games ran best and only best when running with Glide?

To get the level of access need to have a graphics library that comes anywhere close in preformance to DirectX, you have to pay Microsoft to get the licence to use the needed API; therefore it does not really matter to Microsoft. And DirectX if free so it would be hard to compete if you charge for the library, and if you do not then there is little incentive to try competing.

October 18, 2010 10:21:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GCFL,
why are people saying the Kinect will fail?  I for one plan on purchasing it?  Too expensive? please... the vaulted wii forces you to pay over $100 alone just to get a wii fit.  You do not see people having issues with that...in fact when it came out stores could not keep it in stock.  The long term price of a Kinect and xbox device and the wii are very similar when you start looking at the add on devices for the wii.  It will come down to perceived value...I think the price matches the value but others may not...we will see but I for one think it will be huge this hoilday season.

The Xbox 360 market more then any other console is driven by "core" gamers. Kinect is extremely poorly suited to making games that core gamers like. Nobody wants to stand for hours to play something like Forza... especially a version where you can't shift gears because there's no button for that. The Kinect games that have been showed that aren't minigame collections or dance games are all on rails (like the Forza demo where you could steer but there's no input mechanism for the accelerator or brakes).

As a technology, it's interesting. As an input method for serious games, it's terrible. It's aimed at a market that the Wii already dominates and they have to convince people to spend a lot more money to get something that does the same thing... and have to compete with Sony doing it at the same time.

October 18, 2010 10:24:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Though console gaming hurts pc gaming, it wont kill it without a lot of changes.  There are types of games that just wont work on console unless you dramatically dumb them down as to fit the console controllers.  I mean really what PC gamer doesn't die a little inside when they see a game they were waiting for with hit PC and X-box or PS3?  You know you will see a game striped down to fit consoles and the controls will be terrible.

October 18, 2010 10:37:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Delmoroth,
Though console gaming hurts pc gaming, it wont kill it without a lot of changes.  There are types of games that just wont work on console unless you dramatically dumb them down as to fit the console controllers.  I mean really what PC gamer doesn't die a little inside when they see a game they were waiting for with hit PC and X-box or PS3?  You know you will see a game striped down to fit consoles and the controls will be terrible.

In the recent past (this year) there was one exception; Divinity II: Ego Draconis. It was made for the PC and ported to the XBox... resulting in the XBox version being the worse version of the game. The default control settings on the PC were not perfect, but with some tweaks it played well (making it so all the quick access slots could be accessed without moving my hand on the keyboard, and assigning the weapon slots to the mouse wheel).

October 18, 2010 10:44:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Microsoft could end PC gaming as we know it, if they just released a keyboard / mouse controllers for xbox.

Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering, but all pc advantages go away next round of hardware, especially if they allow you to hook up your mouse/ keyboard of choice, and monitor and your off.

October 18, 2010 10:49:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Lets take a step back and look at the social-economic aspect of all this. We're in a recession with high unemployment and a gaming industry which is making too many mistakes due to business bureaucracy, poor game concept fundamentals, and bad design strategies. Sales are not as high as they should be for PC games in retail because it's starting to be offset by online sales and console sales has always been a thread.

Nobody is replacing the PC because as long as the PC is around its ALWAYS going to be a very viable gaming platform on it's own as more and more consumers purchase one for business, work, or pleasure. Why would Microsoft intentionally limit themselves to the 360 when almost everyone is going to have a PC at some point? Why wouldn't they focus on that? It's just not a solid business strategy especially when more powerful and viable PCs are getting cheaper, faster, and better each year.

Products and the economy works in cycles, they have ups and downs. The early 2000's was certainly an up time and now we're in the slump that follows.

Lastly, I'm predicting that Kinect is a success, not a failure. The whole package is expensive, yes, but you need to consider that it needs no peripherals or batteries like the Wii remotes or additions. It's got a higher up front cost but a lower long term expense. I think it'll break the Wii market trend for good because, personally, I don't think the Wii is making too many solid games compared to Microsoft and the X-Box.

October 18, 2010 10:50:54 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Kinect would never work for the ever-popular shooters that have arrived on the Xbox.  These are games which make the best use of the Xbox controllers, and sell a lot.

Additionally, if you could get two players going on that Star Wars game that was demonstrated, there's a good chance that while waving your lightsabers around you could smack someone in the face for real.

I'm not exactly thrilled with the controllers available right now, it always seems to me that the shoulder buttons are harder to push than anything else, with the result that I keep hopping in and out of the weapon or power menus in Mass Effect 2.  Gripping something that was designed for slightly smaller hands than mine leads to discomfort after a while.  So there is appeal with Kinect in that the gamer's hands will be relieved of the need to make small repetitive movements or hold onto something for upwards of an hour.  But those hands are capable of generating lots of different input information, and it's hard to see how Kinect will make up for the loss of two thumbsticks.

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