Civilization V

After we had played 100 turns or so it was time for bed so the host of our multiplayer game went to save the game. UH OH! No Save game button. Apparently there is an auto save game button or something like that when you are starting the game but we didn't have that checked, so we lose our game. Seems like that should definitely be put back into Civ V. It was there in IV.

Thanks for pointing this out, was going to play a sessions with some friends tomorrow and it would have been annoying to find that we couldn't save our progress. I'll put the autosave frequency at every turn.

Quoting FadedC,

reply 25

Quoting wilebill, reply 21Kael is rumored to be porting Fall From Heaven to Civ 5. Oodles and gobs of magic then!

Kael has also made two cool mods for Civ 5 already. Added the Celts and the Legions mod. Unfortunately, neither mod will download and install for me. They are working on it.

FFH for Civ 5 would be amazing. His legions mod baffles me though as it removes the one unit per hex rule which is one of the best things about Civ 5 and which the whole military based game is based around. I guess it's interesting to note that it's possible to remove it in a mod though. I really hope he doesn't do something like that for FFH though.

I'd like to see the number of units per hex based off of tech/civics choice/perk/...

Not an unlimited cap, but say once you research 'Formations' you can have 3 units per hex, then you research 'Mil Tradition' you can have 5, ...

I'd actually like to see this in Elemental as well instead of the unit sizes getting bigger, but we'll see how the revamp of combat in elemental changes things.

Quoting shadowtongue,

reply 27

Quoting FadedC,
reply 25

Quoting wilebill, reply 21Kael is rumored to be porting Fall From Heaven to Civ 5. Oodles and gobs of magic then!

Kael has also made two cool mods for Civ 5 already. Added the Celts and the Legions mod. Unfortunately, neither mod will download and install for me. They are working on it.

FFH for Civ 5 would be amazing. His legions mod baffles me though as it removes the one unit per hex rule which is one of the best things about Civ 5 and which the whole military based game is based around. I guess it's interesting to note that it's possible to remove it in a mod though. I really hope he doesn't do something like that for FFH though.

I'd like to see the number of units per hex based off of tech/civics choice/perk/...

Not an unlimited cap, but say once you research 'Formations' you can have 3 units per hex, then you research 'Mil Tradition' you can have 5, ...

I don't know, right now there's a nice balance between units. Range units are very strong but vulnerable to cavalry charges that run around the front line and take them out. If you could just stack your ranged units on top of melee units the entire game would need to be rebalanced.

i agree with everyone about how amazing this game is...just amazing..i have friends new to civ that i got into it and they are learning it much easier then any of us did back in the old civ days lol.with civ 5 f1 2010,new champ in league of legends,big global agenda patch....yesterday was like a baby in a room full of boobies......but civ had the best rack

I have a 5 year old computer (dual core AMD - so basically minimum specs). I have everything set to medium graphics level. Game looks and plays great. Do not miss this game for some unreasonable hatred of Steam or loyalty to Elemental. You are not hurting Stardock by playing Civ 5 provided you have more than $50 in disposable income. CIV 5 definitely subscribes to the KISS method. I love when complexity manifests itself as opportunity costs without unnecessary encumbrance. CIV 5 is the best game I've purchased so far this year.

Before I get flamed, Elemental doesn't count I bought it in 2009

Quoting klaxton499,

reply 30

unreasonable hatred of Steam

Oh no he didn't.

quoting post

I been hearing a lot of problems are going on with Civilization V. I am curious if that game will be judged by the same merits that Elemental was judged?

What do you guys think?

Yes. If you compare Civ 5 at launch to Elemental at launch, it goes something like this:

- Civ 5 is having crash issues for some people in DX11 mode. Dropping to DX9 and/or updating drivers seems to fix it. Elemental had similar problems, but they were more widespread (30% of users according to a post from Brad). To date no reviewers have delayed reviews of Civ 5 because of alt+tab crashes or general unplayableness.

- Civ 5 has ugly rivers. Elemental didn't have rivers, or fully random maps (and Civ 5 has quite a number of map scripts).

- Civ 5 has a very strange design choice where you can't manually save in MP. Elemental had no MP at launch.

- Civ 5 has no animations in MP. Elemental has no AI players in MP (today, obviously it had no MP AI at launch since it had no MP).

- Civ 5 is tied to Steam. Elemental is tied to Impulse. This is a minus against Civ 5 if you care about that, but the overwhelming majority of users don't (especially since DD just passed retail in sales in the US, and Steam is by far #1).

If Civ 5 was being compared to the version of Elemental we have today? Elemental's scores would go up 10 or 15 points now that the technical issues are largely resolved and it's a better question. But the release version of Elemental was lousy, to put it kindly. Against that standard, Civ 5 is a straight up better game.

Melamine - I said unreasonable. You may have a valid reason to hate Steam.

Lot's of negative posts over at CivFantics. Mostly gameplay stuff and the "dumbing down" of the game. Plenty of crashes too though.

Not a smooth launch at all.

Quoting bonscott,

reply 34

Lot's of negative posts over at CivFantics. Mostly gameplay stuff and the "dumbing down" of the game. Plenty of crashes too though.

Not a smooth launch at all.

Hmmm...

I dunno about that. The posts at CF are not nearly as horrific as the ones here at launch, and there are lots of people playing and posting AARs, something that I've yet to see for Elemental.

Though it does depend on what you mean by 'smooth', but for all intensive purposes I think this launch was as smooth as any for a 'cutting edge' PC title.

Quoting klaxton499,

reply 33

Melamine - I said unreasonable. You may have a valid reason to hate Steam.

I am a Steam skeptic. I use Steam regularly and I understand the appeal of the platform. However, I consider the platform flawed and I am disturbed by the disproportionate praise it receives from gamers.

Refusing to buy Civ V, based on its use of Steamworks, is a valid reaction. I am a principled individual who acts on his concerns. More offensive to me is the person who dislikes Steamworks but buys Civ V because he hasn't the willpower to deny himself a major release.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 32

quoting post
I been hearing a lot of problems are going on with Civilization V. I am curious if that game will be judged by the same merits that Elemental was judged?

What do you guys think?

Yes. If you compare Civ 5 at launch to Elemental at launch, it goes something like this:

- Civ 5 is having crash issues for some people in DX11 mode. Dropping to DX9 and/or updating drivers seems to fix it. Elemental had similar problems, but they were more widespread (30% of users according to a post from Brad). To date no reviewers have delayed reviews of Civ 5 because of alt+tab crashes or general unplayableness.

- Civ 5 has ugly rivers. Elemental didn't have rivers, or fully random maps (and Civ 5 has quite a number of map scripts).

- Civ 5 has a very strange design choice where you can't manually save in MP. Elemental had no MP at launch.

- Civ 5 has no animations in MP. Elemental has no AI players in MP (today, obviously it had no MP AI at launch since it had no MP).

- Civ 5 is tied to Steam. Elemental is tied to Impulse. This is a minus against Civ 5 if you care about that, but the overwhelming majority of users don't (especially since DD just passed retail in sales in the US, and Steam is by far #1).

If Civ 5 was being compared to the version of Elemental we have today? Elemental's scores would go up 10 or 15 points now that the technical issues are largely resolved and it's a better question. But the release version of Elemental was lousy, to put it kindly. Against that standard, Civ 5 is a straight up better game.

Very good post and you certainly know more about both games than I.

I guess how I see it in my mind.

Elemental had/has problems, got bad reviews (most were correct). I was able to play at launch, not good, but I could play.

Civ 5 has problems, has great reviews. But as you said is a better game at the end of the day. However I am still seeing a number of sites and new reports stating that the game has it flaws. And seeing several sites that posted 90-98 (out of 100) points on the game and then seeing 1up give it a C, gets me a tad bit confused on who or what to believe.

Quoting Saryk,

reply 37

Civ 5 has problems, has great reviews. But as you said is a better game at the end of the day. However I am still seeing a number of sites and new reports stating that the game has it flaws. And seeing several sites that posted 90-98 (out of 100) points on the game and then seeing 1up give it a C, gets me a tad bit confused on who or what to believe.

The reviews don't confuse me. I've learned the following:

New players will enjoy Civ 5 (assuming an interest in strategy games)
Existing Civ fans will find Civ 5 shallow (compared to Civ 4), but enjoyable
Civ fans who expect a game that has evolved in depth since Civ 4 (as Civ 4 did compared to its predecessor) will be disappointed
TBS fans looking for rich diplomacy options will find their options limited

TBS players are a demanding crowd. They are some of the most "hardcore" people in the PC gaming universe. Critics have noted that Civ 5 attempts to appeal to a wider demographic at the expense of pleasing these TBS fanatics.

It's true Civ 5 is less complex than Civ 4. You can almost feel the console influence. I enjoy the new combat system the most. I used to spend hours playing Panzer General and this combat is similar. Maybe that is why I'm glad the rest of the game gets out of the way. You still prioritize your efforts but you are not forced to micro-manage. The new city-states are a nice improvement. Ironically this is where diplomacy works the best.

I expect Elemental to have more replay value; although, I'm glad I have an enjoyable diversion while Stardock works on patches.

Quoting klaxton499,

reply 39

It's true Civ 5 is less complex than Civ 4. You can almost feel the console influence. I enjoy the new combat system the most. I used to spend hours playing Panzer General and this combat is similar. Maybe that is why I'm glad the rest of the game gets out of the way. You still prioritize your efforts but you are not forced to micro-manage. The new city-states are a nice improvement. Ironically this is where diplomacy works the best.

I expect Elemental to have more replay value; although, I'm glad I have an enjoyable diversion while Stardock works on patches.

I haven't really felt that playing Civ was any less complex then playing Civ 4. The combat is much more complicated compared to the very simple stack of doom combat of the previous game, and the new culture and city state rules add extra complexity to the game as well. So far it seems like a genuinely deeper game, although obviously I haven't had it for very long. It's unclear to me what complexity people consider to be removed. I'm doing all the same things I did in Civ 4, only now I have more details to pay attention to and strategies for gameplay.

I guess you don't have to manage happiness for each individual city any more, but I'm not sure that this was any more complicated then managing empire wide happinesss. Civ 4's happiness rules were fairly simple and user friendly as well, compared to previous versions where you had to check every city every turn to make sure it was not about to rebel. I guess the loss of religion marginally reduces complexity, but it is more then made up for by any number of other things.

people are confusing less microing with dumbing down...all they did was remove tedious tasks that just weren't fun.the stacks were very annoying and this system is just alot better.people think that if a sequels UI is cleaned up and more readable its automatically dumbed down console crap......its always comical to see stuff like that.

Quoting blix2006,

reply 41

people are confusing less microing with dumbing down...all they did was remove tedious tasks that just weren't fun.the stacks were very annoying and this system is just alot better.people think that if a sequels UI is cleaned up and more readable its automatically dumbed down console crap......its always comical to see stuff like that.

I honestly haven't even noticed that much of a reduction of micromanagement, at least compared to civ 4. I'm doing about the same level of economic micromanagement as before, and now I'm doing much more military micromanagement (but it's fun so I don't mind).

but for all intensive purposes

FYI, it's "for all intents and purposes." It's a common eggcorn.

I just started my first game of CivV. I am a rabid fan of Elemental and have the utmost faith in Stardock. I cannot make the determination as of yet whether CivV is dumbed down or has some issues with mechanics. But what I can say is that the game is polished to a blinding sheen. It is highly intuitive, which is why I think a lot of people think it is dumbed down.

The UI is highly responsive and unit/UI alerting and highlighting is rather innovative. Your eyes are immediately drawn to what is active, and the turn does not end without all units being addressed, which is different from Elemental's mismanagement of the end of the turn.

I am not saying that CivV is a better game by any stretch of the imagination. Both games are going to find a substantial shelf life on my hard drive. But out of the gate, CivV does have the edge as far as you can tell that they took great care at addressing the little things, and when you take care of the little things, it is obvious that the developers care deeply about their product. This does not mean that Stardock doesn't, it's just not obvious until you come to the forums and read their posts.

Quite a few formerly loyal Civ fans don't like being forced to use 3rd party software to play.

Civ 5 has problems, has great reviews. But as you said is a better game at the end of the day. However I am still seeing a number of sites and new reports stating that the game has it flaws. And seeing several sites that posted 90-98 (out of 100) points on the game and then seeing 1up give it a C, gets me a tad bit confused on who or what to believe.

Now that I got some hours into Civ 5. I agree with the 1UP review. The AI needs work, diplomacy is weak, and I hate that when I pick a policy I am stuck with it forever. Hopefully the policy system can be modded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the game (combat is great fun), but it's going to get old with the dumb AI and crap policy system.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 32

quoting post

I been hearing a lot of problems are going on with Civilization V. I am curious if that game will be judged by the same merits that Elemental was judged?

What do you guys think?

Yes. If you compare Civ 5 at launch to Elemental at launch, it goes something like this:

- Civ 5 is having crash issues for some people in DX11 mode. Dropping to DX9 and/or updating drivers seems to fix it. Elemental had similar problems, but they were more widespread (30% of users according to a post from Brad). To date no reviewers have delayed reviews of Civ 5 because of alt+tab crashes or general unplayableness.

- Civ 5 has ugly rivers. Elemental didn't have rivers, or fully random maps (and Civ 5 has quite a number of map scripts).

- Civ 5 has a very strange design choice where you can't manually save in MP. Elemental had no MP at launch.

- Civ 5 has no animations in MP. Elemental has no AI players in MP (today, obviously it had no MP AI at launch since it had no MP).

- Civ 5 is tied to Steam. Elemental is tied to Impulse. This is a minus against Civ 5 if you care about that, but the overwhelming majority of users don't (especially since DD just passed retail in sales in the US, and Steam is by far #1).

If Civ 5 was being compared to the version of Elemental we have today? Elemental's scores would go up 10 or 15 points now that the technical issues are largely resolved and it's a better question. But the release version of Elemental was lousy, to put it kindly. Against that standard, Civ 5 is a straight up better game.

Probably one of the fairer comparisons I have seen so far between the two. I mean we are talking about launches here. Is it possible Elemental will be the better game in a year or two, maybe. The Stardock fans say it is so. I don't know. I didn't get GC2 until after the first expansion, and I wasn't impressed with how the current launch was handled. I'm still playing the demo, and cant' decide if I care for it. Something feels "off" to me, but my sister is all but throwing me out the door to go get it to play with her. WTH is up with no manual saves on MP!?

Well having played a few games of civ 5 I would say that in some ways its more shallow and in others its more deep. Hexes and Combat are definetly deeper than any other civ, this is panzer general reborn and is the way everyone who does tbs should do it. There is simply not a discussion around the 1 military 1 civilian per hex rule, remove it and you lose all the tactical options that you have in the current system, I simply don't understand the legion mod. Stack of doom combat and square hexes have plagued civ for awhile.

I like the social policies but definetly miss religions, in some ways its more of an immersion breaker than a reduction of complexity, much like the removal of the full globe view zoom out which I miss purely for how it added that "it's a globe" immersive factor. Money/Research/Happiness/Culture are all "simplified". I have yet to determine if this is more a removal of needless micro or "dumbing it down". I have been progressivley playing up through the difficulty and I think at higher levels the same type of "micro makes a better civ" civ 4 type gameplay will emerge.

Elemental failing is almost that its too close to civ. I was expecting vast tracks of empty land to adventure into and instead the map fills up like a civ map with sprawling cities, evenly placed, and expanding borders. I wanted random maps which produce "the river of tears, copperspike mountains, forest of lost souls, etc" you know like a fantasy rpg map. I thought it would have epic fantasy types of battles between armies and commando like small parties journeying into enemy territory. I thought combat would be robust with neat mechanics. I thought spells would be meaningful to the global game as well as combat. I thought it would make you make tough and interesting choices that directly affected your success in the game.

Right now its Civ 4 without a true random map generator or good ai.

I do dislike steam its works much like Vista... hates dial up or anything as slow could work much smother.. but thats just Steam, I dislike steam but that hasn't stopped me from Buying it.

The DLC seems more of a money grab then anything else. at least this game has LAN shame elemental hasn't.... oh well gonna get back to elemental when its first Xpack comes out.

Having played considerably more I do still feel that the gameplay mechanics are deeper and better then the original. However I've also come to suspect that 1up may have had a point about the AI. I haven't played quite enough to get a great feel for it, but I've seen it do a disturbing number of completely boneheaded things in it's wars with me. It seems to handle economics fairly well (including when I automate my workers and things like that) but it may not be able to handle the new military complexity.

How much this matters will vary by person to person. Anyone who is a huge MoM for example obviously isn't a big stickler for AI. But for me bad AI is a big deal. Time will tell how this all turns out.

Been playing and largely enjoying Civ 5.

High points:

Great level of polish.

The Civ's bonuses have been tweeked, but so far seem pretty balanced. They are also more interesting by far than the bonuses in Civ 3 and 4.

New hex maps and tactical combat are awesome.

The mechanics in general seem more refined. Culture, boarder growth, etc work well.

Game feels a little more dynamic with city-states and all they entail.

Low points:

I have a fairly high-end computer (GeForce 260, i7 2.7GHz chip, 12 gigs RAM....), and on almost highest settings I find the game chugs. Talking heads/Diplomacy screens with freeze the game for 10-15 seconds, and stutter for another 10-15 before they're working. If I reduce the video settings to minimum, I get a smooth experience, but when my computer exceeds the reccomended requirements by an order of magnitude or two, and still has issues with the game at medium settings....

Too few Civs

No scenarios. I suppose these will have to fall under "mods," but they could have easily shipped the game with a few set-pieces, like they have done in previous versions.

A real pain in the ass to alt-tab out of. I like to switch between games and other applications, but Civ V hates handing the reins to any other program while it's running.

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