Frogboy

Yeah, but it's not really "LAN play" because you happen to be able to play it on a LAN. If you remove the LAN and connect everyone directly to the Internet, you can keep playing. If you remove the Internet and keep the LAN, you can't. It'd be more accurate to call it "Internet play" that happens to continue to work if people are sharing the same Internet connection.

I said earlier it doesn't bother me a lot, and I mean that. But it's disingenuous for anybody to call it LAN play, particularly given how badly Blizzard got ripped in the PC gaming forum here on this same site for doing the exact same thing. Actual LAN play is something like Civ 4 where you can play so long as you can ping the other computer, no Internet required.

As for the 2:1 thing, it was something specifically offered up in Sins (and I believe Demigod), as a player-friendly feature. I really liked that if someone just dropped in, and it's a shame to see it disappear.

We have a differing of opinions on what LAN play is.  Let's just leave it at that.

I didn't know Sins had that feature, but then again I couldn't ever get anyone to play that.  Maybe I can get a buddy to check that out, now.

The sad part is, the pirates will find away around it regardless. It's not like it would be a huge concern for them. We're here asking because, I assume, most of us intend to actually pay for the game, want to know what the limitations are physically and within the terms of the EULA. I know the game is 99.9% SP, but god it would be nice to hear some nice things about the game from the multiplayer camp other than we support LAN, not really, and up to 16 players on our servers.

And just in case you are still around Brad, even if some of think the DRM free claim is a stretch, that doesn't mean it's bad DRM or that you're anywhere close to Ubisoft levels. You'd still right in the neighborhood with true DRM free titles compared to the other crap out there.

When I was into LAN parties it was in a shed, where the best connection was 56K over a hundred meters away...

Not only that but most of the people didn't have that much money and mostly used pirated games. I was one of the few (only?) who didn't and actualy put lots of money into games and hardware (I provided all the interconectiveity, even some LAN cards with on site upgrades heh).

"LAN" -> Local Area Network. If two computers can ping each other, they can play. No authentication. That is a LAN game, not something that is phoning home. The system you are describing is no different than a bunch of people playing in the security of their own house and connecting to eachother in an Internet server. 

I understand that some systems take advantage of this (Hamachi/Gameranger) but if you aren't bothered by the 99.9% of players who are pirating the game to play single-player, I don't understand why you'd be bothered by the .1% of players who pirated to play with their friends. 

:shrug: all I know is that if I can't LAN it locally with friends (using one license) I won't be able to convince my friends to buy it. That's all it is. 

It's my computers (not theirs) that I'm installing it on and they are only using it temporarily. I promised them LAN (because I do OFTEN throw LAN parties. My current house has six computers, 3 which are 2 years or less all connected to one router), and this is typically what happens: 

1- I throw a LAN party for a new game, they play it 

2- They either like it or they hate it. If they hate it, we never play again and I play it myself, or online

3- If they like it, then they'll buy it, and play it at their house so they can be good at it 

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If I can't do step one (DoW II, Supreme Commander II) then I can't go to step 3 without making them watch me play it and convincing them I like it (or letting them play single-player on my computer as I watch them...). 

Ultimately, catering to a 2:1 or 3:1 is a positive revenue generator because of people like me (not 15:1 and you can always say in the EULA that you have to won the computers that it is installed with, really, the EULA just has to be "tweaked" to remove the restriction of operating the game on multiple computers as once, then bam, you have a legal 2:1). 

The problem I have is that you claim to support LAN games (that is, no phoning home) where in reality, you don't, and are hiding it behind the excuse that it allows quick balancing of XML without having to release new builds. 

If you said you didn't have LAN functionality, and that is how multi-player worked, I wouldn't have this problem. A LOT of games have removed LAN functionalities and I would sigh and move on, and accept that my friends won't buy this game. I'm upset that I was made a liar. Because I made a promise based on expectations (that this game was LANable) and now I either need to pirate it or hack it to get it to work in a LAN, or disappoint my friends. 

I think that Stardock is a good company, and you do a lot of things right and I hope that Elemental is a critical success. But that doesn't mean that I like it when you claim LAN support when you really don't ._. 

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Of course, all of this will be moot once the custom servers get released. 

Frogboy,

Please don't pay attention to these people - they just enjoy being negative.   The position that Stardock has taken on copy protection and on making updated archived disks available in the future is an excellent one and appreciated I am sure by the vast majority of your customers.

As far as playing mulitplayer on your servers - that sounds like a good service to me.

Thanks for all your hard work on the game.   Don't let a few always negative people get you down.

Xaltotun

I am talking to you on the forums, so yes i have internet. It sure is nice to able to play games though when the internet is not available.

You'd have to ask a pirate that question. I am not a pirate. I didn't realize though that you were using cloud computing to keep a part of the game away from players as an anit-piracy measure. That's interesting.

I already thanked you for that, though I had been hoping for an digital copy not something through the mail. Still pretty cool.

There's no current timeline, it'll depend on what customers want us to focus our resources on. The first thing we'll want to do is see how many people are playing MP in the first place.

frogboy,

like a couple of other posters, I would like the ability to show/play with a second person on TWO of MY computers in MY house on MY personal  Local Area Network without having to switch on the gateway router, proxy computer and internet modem, then have two accounts with different serial numbers set up to play,

AND I have pre-ordered and paid for  the limited edition AND also ordered AND paid for a standard version through a local supplier,

and while I do not have larger lan parties I have sold several copies of games for different companies that were sampled this way eg sins of a solar empireat least 2 copies other than the three that I own, locomotion at least two copies other than mine, transport tycoon at least two copies other than mine, just to name three.

and just for the record I have six computers that are of reasonable spec by current retail game specifications ie dual core2.6ghz  cpu or better, 3GB or more ram, 128mb dx9c or better VGA card gigabit lan 1280x1024 screen res OR higher, stereo sound or higher, 1 or more dvd drives.

and I OWN and built all twenty two of my computers and they are all set up in my OWN house on my OWN LAN that I had designed and installed.

sorry about the rant starting but theses are facts as I see them

harpo

Frogboy, please don't let the very few nay sayers get to you. I understand that some people may want things to be a certain way but it isn't going to be that way. I think it is great what you guys are doing and I would just ignore them because I guarantee that 95 to 98 percent of the people who will be playing this game really wont care about Lan or having to connect to the internet, etc. I for one don't and for those of you who do, perhaps this isn't the game for you after all.

From what I know, there are two reasons to use a LAN connection in most games.

1)  Near-zero latency.

2)  It's a guaranteed, no-hassle way of getting multiplayer to work for local players.  It doesn't matter if the authentication servers or down, or the internet is down, or somebody's wireless card isn't working.  As long as the computers can run the game and you have the cables, there's nothing that can stop it from working.

Since Elemental is a turn-based game, I'm guessing that number 1 is a non-issue regarless if how you're playing.  That means that the only reason anyone would be interested in LAN play at all is number 2, which ceases to apply once players need to be logged in to Impulse.  People aren't complaining because each user is expected to own their own copy of the game.  It just bothers them that the game is now being advertised as having LAN functionality when the enforcement of that rule (i.e. mandatory Impulse log-ins for all players) defeats the purpose of using it.  Once you've dealt with connection logistics to the point that all the players are online and logged into Impulse, what possible reason is there to bust out the LAN cables?  You could just play remotely through the internet to identical effect.

That's my understanding, anyway.  I don't think I've ever used a LAN option for any reason except to combine it with Hamachi in order to get online multiplayer to work with older games, so I'm not personally affected here.

 Does it even require you to be logged into the internet always or is it just a one time thing and than you can go offline and continue to play? Also, it seems that once they allow for custom games to be hosted on peoples PC's the internet should be a non issue when it comes to Lan. Also, in no way does Frogboy mention LAN as some of you seem to have assumed it. He specifically says "There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends.  Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle." I don't take that to be any kind of endorsement of LAN. Seems to me he is just mentioning a way it could be done where multiple people in the same building can play together on however many pc's.