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Disciples III: I'm Gonna do you all a favor!

By on June 24, 2010 3:27:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

::UPDATE::

I've scrapped this first post and am replacing it with a copy and paste of what I just posted on the Kalypso forums at at Chip's behest. It's a more refined version of the first two pages of this thread.

Thanks for reading! Also: here's hoping the formatting holds up between forums...

Given the... less than stellar reaction from Russian gamers when Disciples III was first released, I was understandably hesitant about buying the game. In the end, my love for Disciples II pushed me to purchase the game through Impulse.

I'm going to share my reaction to the game for people who, like me, may be on the fence, or who haven't been able to find much info (in English, at least) on the game. This review is primarily aimed at people who are familiar with the series, but I've included some basic info in the hope that newcomers will also find it useful.

Let's begin simply: I like it. The rest follows in no concrete order.

Preface:
There are some diversions from the Disciples II mechanics, as you no have heard. These, mainly, are the switch from the old "front-line/back-line" combat to the hex based tactical combat style used by the Heroes of Might and Magic and King's Bounty series, and the removal of plantable rods. I'll talk about these changes more below.

Despite these changes, I honestly have to say that Disciples III is amazingly true to the series' formula. The units, unit progression, town management, spell research and list, overall theme and artistic direction have all been, by and large, carried over intact. Disciples III feels like the true sequel to Disciples II. It feels strange to have to say that, but the tidbits I had heard from across the iron-curtain gave me the impression that Disciples III was not true to the series, and I have to respectfully disagree.



Game-Mechanicy-Stuff:



Buildings/Capital:
The mechanics are identical to DII. You can build one building a turn, whether they be unit progression buildings, ore one of the three utility buildings, the Magic Tower (allows spell research/casting), the Temple (allows healing/reviving units for a fee, or the Guild (allows thieves). Your capital is still guarded by a very powerful unit.

A nice addition, though, is that your town contains a shop with some basic items and a few accessories. This saves you from searching out shops when you want to sell things, and allows you to load out parties before they leave.

Units:
At this point, I've only played with the Imperial faction. The units are the same as I recall from Disciples II, with a squire, an archer, an apprentice, an acolyte and a "large" unit, the titan. (I seem to recall an angel fulfilling this role in DII, but perhaps my memory is failing me.) These units perform just like they did in the previous game.

Units also progress in the exact same way, where you have to choose a career path for each class by constructing the corresponding building in your capital. A squire, like before, can become a knight or a witch-hunter, depending on which upgrade building you chose. While these career paths will fulfill largely the same role, they have enough tactical flavor that you will develop personal favorites.

For instance, each of the squire's possible paths deal with doing damage to single enemies, and protecting your weaker characters from taking damage. They do this through better armour, hit points, and attack damage. Your first choice, along this path, is whether to upgrade to knights or witch-hunters. Knights are essentially just a tougher squires with a new ability, but they lead to stronger units later. The witch-hunter, on the other hand, isn't as tough, but deals more damage with two attacks. And he looks cooler. A later unit, the Angel, retains all the hp and armour of the class, but has a ranged lightning attack and can teleport. They all have the same overall role, but achieve it in different ways.

Another example is the acolyte. Fans of the game will know that you largely choose between two paths with the acolyte. One can heal a single party member for a large amount, the other heals all party members at once, but for a lesser amount.

A quick note on neutral units: All the old ones I remember are there, and have the same feel. Peasants, thugs, those advanced-thugs, goblins, orcs, trolls, wolves, men-at-arms, zombies, etc, along with some that I don't recall, like Earth and Air elementals, shambling treant-like beings, unicorns, spearmen, giant spiders and more. Also included are some units from the races that were not included in the game (but I am betting will be in upcoming expansions...)

Leaders:
The leader's lineup sees some changes, but overall remains the same. You still have the Ranger, Archmage, and Fighter, and Thief leaders (the fighter is now a "Warrior Nun"), but with the removal of rods you do lose the Rob Planter leader. Leaders have all the usual fantasy attributes (Strength, Dexterity etc.), and statistics covering leadership, strategic and combat speed, as well as 6 resistances tied to magic system. All of these can be increased in one way or another as the game progresses.

Leveling up and customizing your leaders has changed, but in my opinion it is better system. When you reach a new level you have two sets of points to spend. First, you receive points to spend on your leader's attributes to make them stronger, tougher, less likely to be hit, etc. Second, you receive points to use unlocking new bonuses and special skills. Disciples III uses a new grid-based system, which I find to be very similar to the system used, I believe, by Final Fantasy 11 (Or whichever one had Vaan and the jungle-dwelling, barely-dress bunny women).

It works like this: Each leader has a grid, the contents of which are based on their class. The grid isn't entirely square, and has a few holes in it, just to make it more interesting. Each square or tile in the grid has some sort of bonus on it, from the mundane (+2 strength, +2 combat moves, +10% fire resistance) to more useful abilities and unique skills (+1 leadership, multi-attack, revive dead), Working from roughly the center of the grid, you spend a point to unlock an adjacent tile, which, in turn, gives you access to its neighbors. The better skills are located around the edges of the grid.

I'm a fan of this system. I like that I can see all my options, and this helps me plan towards specific goals. If I'm feeling underpowered, I can head work towards unlocking a leadership boost so I can include another unit in my party. For my archmages, I like trying to grab all the intelligence bonuses to increase my damage. It's a very easy system to get into.

You still choose the profession of your main character from the classic three: Warlord, whose parties regain some HP each round, Archmage, who can cast two strategic spells per turn and has access to better spells, and Guild Master, who collects more resources, and whose Thief leaders are more powerful. There isn't a lot more to say about that, as it is also unchanged.

Magic:
As far as I have seen, the mechanics behind spell research and casting, as well as the spell lists, are the same. You still need to build a Magic Tower to allow spell casting, you still can research one spell a day, and you can still cast one spell (two for Archmages) a day. The spell lists depend on faction. The Imperials get the usual line-up. Level one, for instance, includes a heal spell, an armor spell, a weak damage spell, a weak summon spell (living armour) and... one that I don't recall (sorry!). It's the same list as DII. I haven't looked into the other races, but I expect the same to be true.

A new addition, though, is that you can now create magic runes based on the spells you have researched. Despite the name, these are essentially scrolls from any other game. They are single-use versions of your spells which can be used in combat. There is a little more to it than that, but it gives you an idea.

Strategic Map:
The Strategic Maps, or World Maps, work just like they did in DII. Your party travels around the world expending movement points, looking for enemies, treasure, random goodies, and magical sites which can grant temporary or permanent bonuses, heal your party, or refill some of your movement points, allowing you to explore further. Neutral enemies usually guard treasure, special sites and main paths. For an old Disciples player, this is all familiar.

Oh- and the neutral enemies are all familiar.

There are a few additions to the map, the first is in the form of dungeons. Dungeons are like other combat encounters except that they are refreshed every 10 turns, so you could return and fight its inhabitants again.

The second addition are Nodes, which have replaced the Rod mechanic of DII. I'm not a huge fan of this system, but I can see some of the benefits of using it.

Rods/Territory:
This is the first real difference between DII and DIII. Instead of a leader who can plant and remove rods, which allow you to lay claim to territory, the game now uses Nodes. Nodes, by-and-large, act like rods, but have a fixed location.

If a player captures a nod, it begins spreading their territory outward from it. When mines and other such resource generating locations pay out to whichever player controls the territory in which they reside.. Each race's territory has a different visual style. In Imperial territory the trees are a lush green and the ground is covered in grass. In Elven territory, the land is in a constant state of autumn. The trees are all orange red and brown and the ground is covered in fallen leaves.

Once a node has been captured, it becomes host to a guardian spirit. This spirit becomes more powerful and gains new abilities over time, and must be defeated if another player wishes to capture the node for themselves.

Combat:
This is the main departure from the series. Combat now takes place on a tactical hex-based maps, very much like in Heroes of Might and Magic and King's Bounty. Your party members can now move around during combat, to try and gain an advantage against enemy units, or to sneak around and attack weaker enemies hiding in the back.

These tactical maps contain two types of special features. The first are objects such as logs, stalagmites, and boulders, which are impassible and break up the map. The second are tiles which grant a strong bonus to either ranged, melee, or magical attacks (and healing spells). Using these tiles will make battles much easier to handle. Letting your enemy use them is a bad idea. In some tougher encounters attacking from bonus tiles is the key to victory.

As I mentioned earlier, units are largely the same as in DII. And, while the tactical combat has changed, the unit roles and strategies have not. Parties that were viable before, like my old favorite "assassination squad" with a ranger, assassin, and two melee units/one large unit, work just as well as before.

You do have to put some more thought and effort into it though. You have to work harder to protect your support and ranged units, or work at circumventing your enemy's melee units so you can strike at their support. Many units, now, have special abilities. Titans can cause an earthquake which damages all enemies, Imperial Assassins can poison, some daemonic units have life draining attacks, etc etc. These can all be used in place of a unit's standard attack or heal.

A new mechanic is "Cover." When a unit which can cover (namely, front-line units) stands next to another friendly unit, he is covering that unit. Should that unit be attacked in melee, the covering unit (if within reach) interrupts the attack with one of his own, possibly killing the attacker before they can do damage. If the attacker survives, it carries out its attack, only against the unit which provided cover, not the original target. This rewards you for careful placement of units, and allows you to better protect your weaker support units.

There are some combat options I enjoy. The first is auto-combat, which will play out both sides of the combat in real-time, and can be toggled, so you can jump back into control at any time. The second is resolve combat, which will finish the combat in a matter of seconds, but still follows the same combat mechanics. To clarify, some automatic resolutions in games don't play through the combat using the same mechanics as manual combat, but instead use different systems which are easier to compute. DIII doesn't take that route, for which I am glad.

Party sizes are generally the same, and can be improved a little as leaders level up.  Not a lot to say here, it's essentially the same as before.

Overall, I feel the tactical combat is interesting and fits, but suffers from a lack of polish and some poor combat AI.

The combat log doesn't scroll properly, and as a longer battle continues, current info either isn't added, or is properly brought to the top, and you are left with outdated messages.

There is a real lack of information that you would expect in combat. While you can look at whether a unit is buffed or debuffed, you can't find out what the actual buff or debuff is. Likewise, there is no description or tool-tip in regards to special abilities for enemy units, (or units you don't have access too/haven't yet recruited). Likewise, this holds true for abilities on a leader's skill grid. You won't know what it does until you "purchase" it.

Also, I feel that the spell casting units are underpowered a bit. I haven't used the higher-level ones, but the apprentice and it's next two upgrades leave me underwhelmed, and I wonder if the imbalance continues throughout the class.

There are some bugs with the combat, namely inconsistent AI. Enemies like to focus on a specific target and will generally continue attacking that target until one of them dies. Unfortunately, this means enemies are prone to ignoring units they could kill, if only they would switch targets. Also, if there is no path to their preferred target, will sometimes just stand in one spot until an opening presents itself.

In Auto combat, I have noticed some of my ranged characters don't seem to be attacking every round. I need to test it a bit more, but I think I'm correct. This is a big annoyance.

In a funny reverse of that problem, I have noticed that one of a story-line character's skills does nothing when I use it manually, but does work during auto-combat...

That's a lot on combat, so lets move along.

Visuals:
 Disciples III is a good looking game. It's not amazing, but modern 3D combined with the dark, somewhat Gothic, art style of the Disciples games combines too create a game easy on the eyes. Oddly, though, the game lacks some standard options such as AA. The game doesn't need it, it's pretty clean, but I do notice a difference when I force AA through my gpu.

The world map has some nice touches, such as swaying trees, day/night lighting, and, in Elven territory, falling leaves that I can only describe as pleasant and calming.

Character models are pretty fleshed out, and certainly have their own character and style.

I do have one complaint, though, and that is that the color pallet used in the game is a little too limited. This is a result of the series' visual style, as a whole, which has largely focused of grey, white black, silver, brown, green and red. Other than the trees and grass, almost nothing in the game is "vibrant." Again, I think this is a conscious choice on the part of the developers, but I would have appreciated a little more colour, especially in characters.

All-in-all, though, I think the art team did a fine job translating a 2D game.

Interface, General UI:
While the art is great, and the interface looks nice enough, I find it, at times, less that intuitive. The lack of tool-tips and general info I mentioned earlier is a problem that extends to this portion of the game.

The area which lists your leaders only has room to display 3 at a time, and it isn't readily apparent that it scrolls through them. Add to that the fact that, for humans at least, each of the leader portraits are very similar, causing me to look twice in order to tell which hero is which.

Additionally, the mini-map doesn't display everything it really should. It will display cities, parties, and nodes (and territory), which are the bare minimum in my view. I'd like, at least, to see resource buildings, shops, and recruitment sites to be included.

Not that it is all bad. I'm pretty sure the buttons that lead directly to the build and research screens are a new addition, and I'm thankful for them.

Gameplay-Contenty-Stuff:

Tutorial:
While the tutorial has some neat features, I felt its... tutoring... to be too indirect, and this combined with some bugs in the help menu really spoiled my first impression of the game.

The tutorial, while heavily scripted, only makes use of the in-game help menu to teach you basic concepts. This menu is pretty cool in that it gives you a short video along with each topic, but the list contains maybe 20 topics, and doesn't include any sort of glossary, or information on anything beyond the most basic concepts (How to move, how to end turn, how to use items, how to save and load, the basics of combat etc.). Also, the written text is pretty damn brief. The manual goes into more, but not nearly enough for my tastes. Back on topic, though!

The tutorial is designed so that as you proceed through the little map, the help menu pops up, open to the topic that is relevant to your situation. When you first run out of movement points, it opens to the topic telling you how to end your turn, and so on. Unfortunately, when I ran through the tutorial, this didn't work properly. Every time the help page opened, it displayed the last topic I was looking at. So while I could guess what was happening, some people will only see a help page popping up once or twice a turn for no reason at all. Even I was annoyed.

Campaigns:
Disciples III really recovers after the tutorial. There are three campaigns, one for each race (Humans, Elves, Daemons), and while I haven't tried the other two, the human campaign so far has been great. The story is pretty typical of any fantasy game, but the individual maps/missions are put together really well, offering great balance, pacing, and plenty of side quests/missions to mix things up. A high degree of work and polish went into the campaigns.

I have been very happy with this portion of the game.

Scenarios:
This is a bit of problem. Scenario maps, in DIII refer solely to single-player only, highly scripted maps, but not to general single or multiplayer "skirmish" type maps. This is not a distinction I had initially made, and I was dismayed to discover there was only two scenarios, and one was the tutorial! I'm hoping that there are more, and that they were only left out because of delays in localization...

"Skirmish" Maps:
I'd originally missed these, as they were located under multiplayer, which is, at the moment hot-seat only, though rumor has it Russian players have a beta version of network play.

There are 5 skirmish maps, 4 two-player maps, and a three-player map. Any of the races can be set as AI, so these maps work just as well in single player. Still, the lack of greater variety is a letdown.


Bugs and general issues:


Bugs:
One of my concerns was over how buggy it seemed the original Russian release was. I'm happy to say, though, that aside from the AI combat bugs (which are a real concern), I have only encounter 2, and both are minor.

First, the mouse will sometimes stick after a dialogue scene. Hitting Esc fixes this. Second, accessing the help menu during combat will distort the game's colours, rendering text in a fuzzy white, and turning the rest of the screen various shades of hot pink. If I close the help menu, it reverts to normal.

Otherwise, nothing. No CTDs, no game breakers, just inconsistent AI, one broken skills, and a glitch tutorial.

Voice Acting:
The narrator, despite doing a good job in Disciples II, and Kohan I & II, does a really bad job in this game. He delivers his dialogue in monotone, and varies the speed of delivery at odd moments. It's poorly done and really distracting!

Localization:
By and large it has been flawless. But there are a few minor issues, such as the Warrior Nun being referred to in some instances as "Girl Warrior," Node Guardians being referred to using 2 or 3 different names, and two separate and unique units with the name "Imp."

Old Problems:
Disciples III inherits one problem that has always bothered me in the previous games: secondary and tertiary (and so on) parties are difficult to train! This is more true in the campaigns than the skirmish maps, as the campaign missions (or at least the ones I have played thus far) seem to be balanced around your main party, which is a fair bit more powerful than subsequent parties, and which, frankly, kills all the early enemies and takes all the good loot before you can afford to get a second party going.

Like I said, this is an old problem, stemming from a limited number of weak, early encounters, a more powerful initial party, and the game's unforgiving combat. Disciples III has some changes that help relieve this, namely a greater number of, and easier access to, useful items, dungeons you can revisit, and recruitable mid-level neutral units. Still, I find training up extra parties to be a somewhat longer and more tedious process than running around being awesome with the initial party


TL;DR: Or Summary:


Disciples III is a good, solid game, that stays surprisingly true to it's roots while managing to update one of the series' more dated mechanics. In fact, it recaptures so well that which made Disciples II a great game that you will likely find yourself falling into old habits and strategies without noticing it at first. The campaigns are very well constructed and highly polished, but other game modes suffer from a lack of content. The new combat system suffers some definite bugs and a lack of polish, but shows real potential. If you liked Disciples II, you will almost certainly enjoy this. If you liked King's Bounty or HoMM, you may well enjoy this.

-Louist.

+12 Karma | 74 Replies
June 25, 2010 2:09:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I haven't had time to play yet today, but here are some thoughts I didn't get to post last night, many of which are more critical than yesterday's:

 

*The Node/Rod mechanic: While I have no problem with the new node mechanic, I do dislike how slowly your "territory creep" (to use a Starcraft term) spreads. There was a gold generating building pretty much JUST outside the my territory on turn one of my first mission, and it took 15-16 turns for my territory to actually claim it. This is one disadvantage over the old Rod system, where you could plant a rod next to anything you needed.

However, I do like that the nodes, when captured, protected by a guardian (actually referred to as a Rod in game). Enemies then have to attack and kill this guardian in order to claim the node instead. This guardian becomes more powerful the longer it's been in place, so later on it would take a well equipped, higher level party to take one out. (Or just hit it with a bunch of spells before combat?)

*Combat: I've learned that Apprentices and other spell casters actually do area damage, which is nice, but it takes some trial and error to figure out how large the area is. It isn't listed in their stats, and is only displayed in combat in a rather round-about way. I don't like that so much.

*Nuetrals: These keep true to the last game, with wolves, thugs, greater thugs, goblins, orcs, trolls etc making up a lot of the enemies guarding loot.

*Training up new parties: This was always a problem in DII. If you created a new party outside the early game (You know--when you could actually afford to!) they were so underpowered that I had trouble leveling them up without most of the party dying getting no xp at all. In DIII there are now dungeon buildings, which "reset" every 10 turns or so, which allows your weaker, newer, parties a chance at some combat more on their level. It's still not quick, my latest party essentially has a 6 turn downtime, then a turn for combat, a turn and a half back to town, and a turn and a half back to the dungeon to wait, again, for 6 more turns.

*The map doesn't let you zoom out very far, meaning you can't see too wide an area. It's a pity, and it does leave me feeling constrained.

*The graphics could use some AA. It's not terrible, but it's noticeable. I'm running a 260 card, i7 2.7gHz processor, and 12 gigs RAM, and I'd like to make use of that.

*Special locations, on the world map, are not necessarily easy to spot. Because of the art style, a lot of things blend in together, and I miss loot containers and such pretty often.

*This brings me to the minimap: It shows almost nothing! The only things on it are nodes, parties, and for some reason, Taverns (Which just give you a temporary stat boost). Loot isn't, mines aren't, dungeons, aren't etc etc. This is a real flaw.

*Shops, by default, filter your inventory based on what they sell. This isn't an issue if you know about it, but it's never mentioned. I went to three different shops trying to sell my valuable trinket before I took a closer look at the little buttons on the bottom of the shop window, and realized I could indeed sell my trinket, it was just being hidden from me.

*Potions and Dust: So far I haven't figured out how to use either! I have healing potions, and healing dust, but I can't seem to use them in battle, and I can't seem to use them on the world map! I'll have to check if Impulse installed a manual and give it a look. (Actually, I have had my revive potions working in combat, so it's not all potions....)

*Runes: These look like scrolls, and act like scrolls, but are called runes. They're single use versions of spells, and have become my go-to item for mid-battle healing, as some of these monsters are killer.

::EDIT::

*Unconfirmed yet, but judging by the UI, there may be a three leader/party limit. I'll have to create some more leaders and find out.

::EDIT 2::

*After a look at the manual, I see that I was on the wrong screen when trying to use items out of battle! Runes, I have learned, are combat only. However, there seems to be an arbitrary decision on which potions/powders can be used in combat and which can't. Healing potions and powders both are usable in combat, but while the endurance boosting potion can be used in combat, the endurance boosting powder can't. This isn't explained anywhere, and I had to figure it out the hard way.

*You can indeed have more than 3 heroes/parties, however, the UI only displays three at a time, and you have to scroll through them.

June 25, 2010 3:42:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

*The graphics could use some AA. It's not terrible, but it's noticeable. I'm running a 260 card, i7 2.7gHz processor, and 12 gigs RAM, and I'd like to make use of that.

Have you tried toggling forced AA in the video card control panel? Works for most games, but some have graphics glitches with forced AA.

June 25, 2010 3:56:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm in the same position as you. In NA and apparently slipped in my order while it wasn't setup correctly. So, I have the game available for download (though haven't tried yet). Your overviews have been very helpful and informitive - and appreciated. I heard there were many changes but wasn't sure how it would all pan out.

June 25, 2010 4:33:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Annatar11,

*The graphics could use some AA. It's not terrible, but it's noticeable. I'm running a 260 card, i7 2.7gHz processor, and 12 gigs RAM, and I'd like to make use of that.
Have you tried toggling forced AA in the video card control panel? Works for most games, but some have graphics glitches with forced AA.

I hadn't even considered trying force AA, but I will give it a shot nest time I load it up.

Quoting randomsense,
I'm in the same position as you. In NA and apparently slipped in my order while it wasn't setup correctly. So, I have the game available for download (though haven't tried yet). Your overviews have been very helpful and informitive - and appreciated. I heard there were many changes but wasn't sure how it would all pan out.

The changes (from DII to DIII) are certainly a lot fewer in number than I expected, given the bad reaction from Russian gamers. Could be that there is a significant difference from 1.0 to 1.6, or could be something else entirely. All-in-all, I feel that this is a more faithful sequel than most sequels have been. If you were really caught up in the old combat system, you might not like it, but I've found the changeover really easy.

 

Some last thoughts before I head off to do some actual work:

*Enemy Combat AI is a little weak. The individual enemies in combat like to focus on a particular target, which would be fine if it was executed a little better. However, the AI in this regard is a little inconsistent, and sometimes outright stupid. There have been instances were enemies will switch targets to get a killing blow (Good AI!), and there have been instances where the enemy has avoided switching targets to get a killing blow (Bad AI!).  Then there are the times when the enemy's choice target is unreachable, and rather than switch targets, they just stood there, waiting for a spot next to their target to open up so they could attack(WTF are you doing, AI?!). Some of this might be tied to difficultly level, but I have a feeling it is not.

*Campaign Mission Carry-over: Your main leader's stats, skill choices, levels, and equipment carry over. Some of his party's inventory carries over as well, but I'd have to test it to tell you exactly how the game decides what comes and what stays. His party either gets reverted to level 1, or you get a fresh party on the next mission. I can't tell, because I stuck with the starter party from the first mission, and the starter party is the same in the second mission with 2 added storyline characters.Other heroes/parties, researched spells, resources, etc do not carry over.

*Judging by the skill grids, leaders can command up to 5 units with the right skills, and possibly more with special items?

*I find spell-casters to be underpowered. Sure they can hit guys in an area, and this does come up often enough, but an archer type character does double or more damage to a single target, and I personally find it more efficient to focus on individual enemies first, rather than spread around the damage. I think they could use a boost of some sort.

*Bug: I've encounter another one, where a dialogue scene made my mouse disappear. Hitting Esc a few times fixes it, but still.

Ok, that's it for now, I've been playing too much and working too little.

June 26, 2010 2:43:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, I'm (I'm assuming) about 2/3rd finished with the second mission of the Empire campaign. Game is still running smoothly with no CTDs (I only mention this because beta 2b crashed every time I try to look at the Tutor unit).

I have found a new bug, I think, in that one of my storyline character's abilities does nothing. It claims to do damage, but when I use it, I see a nice lightning strike, but it's 0 for 5 for actually damaging anything. I don't even get the "miss" notification.

I've had a look at the Scenarios, and am somewhat surprised to see there are only 2. And one of those is the tutorial. I'm hoping that there are more, and have merely not finished localization (after all, the game isn't technically released for another 2-3 weeks), but we shall see..

Training up secondary parties, even with renewable dungeons, is hard work. I have to buff the heck out of them, and use a number of items in combat to keep them alive and kicking. This gets much easier once they hit their second tier, but this party is worlds behind, and as of yet, has no real purpose to serve. Hopefully this wont be the case in later missions.

The missions aren't too linear, and offer some side areas to explore and side quests to finish. That said, there is more than enough content per map to hit your main leader's level cap (5 on the first missions, 10 the second). My hero picked up two new abilities, a whirlwind attack that hits everyone next to him, and revive, which has been instrumental in keeping things running smoothly within his party. He's also picked up two more points in leadership, but the 2 new storyline characters are taking up those slots! I really wanted a party like this: Hero, Imperial Knight, Imperial Assassin x2, and a third-tier healer. Oh well!

I'm starting to notice the flaws a bit more, but I'm still finding it to be a solid game. The dialogue translation has been great so far with a few very minor exceptions. Gear you can purchase for the Warrior Nun is tagged as being for the "Girl Warrior," whereas the others are labeled exactly after their intended class, and the rod guardians are, depending where you look, referred to under a number of different names.

June 26, 2010 3:35:03 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmmm.... here's my initial feedback...

First, I think the game is going to be fun.  As in, looking forward to the expansions fun.

I'm just going to go rapid fire here...

Game starts... I lose interest almost immediately watching the intro movie.  They choose a really weak voice actor.  Guy sounds a little like leonard nemoy initially, but 3 seconds later, you realize it's not him.  Then you hear some guy ranting on in semi-monotone.  I couldn't focus long enough on what he was talking about, so weak was the voice acting. Seriously - if I ripped the audio, you could listen to this guy talk for 2-4 minutes straight and fall asleep at night. 

Now, I'm at the main menu.  I'm actually really impressed by the detail to graphics.  The menu screen is beautiful and very detailed... but you notice that its missing something.  Its like looking at graphics from years ago.  Highly detailed graphics, but dated tech... I think - I'll increase the detail settings in the options mode... there are no AA settings there.  It still looks ok, but seriously, we're talking something that MIGHT have been stunning 4 years ago. 

Ok. Main menu.  I choose normal difficulty (quick side note - I love disciples II - LOVE).  I choose the tutorial mode.  The game starts.  I'm greeted with a video tutorial screen.  In short, there are various movies you can click on via a help menu to learn how to play.  It covers a few things, but isn't super in depth... but not really a big deal.  Ok... here's where I start to get VERY disappointed with the game.  I watch several videos.  Then I close out of the tutorial window.  Now I'm playing in a "tutorial mission" or something to that effect.  Its alot like disciples II.  I'm digging it.  Randomly, the tutorial videos pop up again.  I'm like... ok, maybe I clicked on something wrong. I'm traveling throughout the kingdom by clicking my mouse on the map.. and the tutorial menu keeps popping up.  We're not talking a couple of times.  We're talking like 30 times over the course of 20-40 minutes.  I'll allow that maybe I was doing something silly (though this issue didn't happen again a single time once I exited the tutorial), but this is supposed to be a game that's been released and not a buggy ass beta.  I expect a reasonable amount of polish in games I pay opening day prices for.  And I'd just be going about my way and the help screen would pop up, seemingly randomly, always on the same tutorial page, doing nothing more than frustrating me.

And then I finally quit that mode and got onto the actual game.  I started having fun immediately.

So, a lot of that sounds negative.  And really, I think they messed a lot up in the parts I've played.  But the meta game is very much the same with better graphics than the original.  I'm looking forward to playing more - and if its short, I'm sure expansions will be inbound. 

June 26, 2010 12:22:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I had a bigger issue with the VA's pacing, he would speed up and slow down oddly, but I generally don't wait for narrators and merely skip ahead when I finish reading. Oh, I also looked it up, but couldn't find who the voice actor is for DIII. But since he sounds like the same guy who did Kohan, I checked who that was. Interestingly enough, the guy from Kohan also did Disciples II, so I think I got it right.

Tutorial- I think that that window is scripted to pop up at certain location, and each time show the next video (now relevent) on the list. I figured I'd glitched it out by going through them all the first time it came up, but maybe it is merely broken.

You are right, there are some polish issues, but so far I've also been enjoying the campaign, and I've found it to be really solid.

As for an expansion: I've noticed a number of dwarven units in the second mission, and there are bound to be more undead than just the zombies I've found. If they already have the assets for those two races made, it seems likely they pop up as playables in the next expansion.

June 26, 2010 1:55:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I had a bigger issue with the VA's pacing, he would speed up and slow down oddly, but I generally don't wait for narrators and merely skip ahead when I finish reading.

yeah... I noticed that too... somewhat monotone with random speeds... made it boring and a little confusing. 

Tutorial- I think that that window is scripted to pop up at certain location, and each time show the next video (now relevent) on the list. I figured I'd glitched it out by going through them all the first time it came up, but maybe it is merely broken.

I think what you described may have been the intent as well, but its simply a broken mechanic. 

You are right, there are some polish issues, but so far I've also been enjoying the campaign, and I've found it to be really solid.

I too am enjoying what I've played of the campaign.  I think the overall experience with the game will be fun and don't think its a bad purchase if you enjoyed disciples II. 

June 26, 2010 3:22:33 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Another thing I've noticed is for hotseat (and I'm guessing single player not campaign) there are only about 5 maps. I think it was four two player and one three player. My brother and I are trying the three player map and it feels really small.

June 26, 2010 4:21:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How are people playing this already? Unless they are playing the Russian version?  Is there a European version out?  The N. American version is not available until July 13, right?

June 26, 2010 5:24:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

How are people playing this already? Unless they are playing the Russian version? Is there a European version out? The N. American version is not available until July 13, right?

I honestly have no idea how things were released etc.  I live in the US and it showed up in impulse a new release.  I purchased it, but couldn't download it initially.  I even had my registrations sent to me on that day via the stardock support website... it indicated the following:

Product Name  : Disciples III - Renaissance

User Name     : My name

Download      : This product is not yet available.

Later that night, the game showed up in my games list.  At first, it wouldn't let me intialize the download... then later that night, it downloaded successfully and plays just fine.  I honestly have no idea as to whether or not it should already have been released in my region or what's going on.  Its all a little strange.  I re-pulled my registration today and it reads:

Product Name  : Disciples III - Renaissance

User Name     : My name

Download      : http://www.impulsedriven.com/impulse_setup.exe (Install Impulse and logon to download)

So, I guess its been released in the US then. 

 

June 26, 2010 6:38:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The same thing happened to me, more or less. I was able to purchase the game, but it didn't immediately show up in "My Games," and the product page said it wasn't to be released until mid-July. Later that night Impulse popped up and asked me if I wanted to install Disciples III, and I said "Yes please!"

These sorts of things aren't exactly unheard of. I've picked up a game or two pre-release or not yet released in NA through Gamers Gate in the past. I assume an employee made an error somewhere, and I am not too big a man to capitalize on that.

June 26, 2010 7:52:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Weird, now the availability of D3 is "only Germany" on Impulse.

I really hope they slipped a premature version through and that they're still working on the real localization versions with more updates and that the horrible horrible amateur VO's are placeholders.

Based on what I've seen so far I agree with some of the above posters that the game looks fun and feels like Disciples but could've still used more polish and tweaking. Especially the new tactical combat.

Art style and visuals are pretty awesome and I don't think they look dated for a game like this. The amount of detail is sometimes amazing, perhaps that is why there is no AA.

June 26, 2010 8:57:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've been using forced 18x AA, but without screenshots to look at I'm not sure that I really see a difference. Either way, I'm perfectly happy.

June 26, 2010 11:10:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I really hope they slipped a premature version through and that they're still working on the real localization versions with more updates and that the horrible horrible amateur VO's are placeholders.

I really doubt it.  Not sure why they'd have a voice actor record the audio in English at all if it wasn't the final version. 

I'm still overall pleased with the product... no crashes or weird behavior outside of the tutorial (no crashes anywhere btw)

June 26, 2010 11:13:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I really hope they slipped a premature version through and that they're still working on the real localization versions with more updates and that the horrible horrible amateur VO's are placeholders.

I really doubt it.  Not sure why they'd have a voice actor record the audio in English at all if it wasn't the final version. 

I'm still overall pleased with the product... no crashes or weird behavior outside of the tutorial (no crashes anywhere btw)

June 28, 2010 5:41:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think this will be my last real update on Disciples III. I'm, at this point, about half way through the third mission of the first campaign.

I'm enjoying it. It is a very solid game, and barring the change in direction of the combat, it is so very true to the series. I find myself slippy comfortably in my old Disciples strategies.

What I've played of the campaigns so far has been enjoyable. The storyline is, so-far, pretty standard dark-fantasy, neither spectacular or crappy. The pacing of the missions are done quite well, with very few wasted turns as you explore and follow your objectives. The maps are littered with little goodies and the odd powerful locations, such as healing wells and shrines that grant skill points. The maps also have a goodly number side quests and general exploration to flesh out the experience.

It's a good looking game. Not astounding, but a little above average for TBS game.

The game only comes with 1 single-player scenario, but I think someone above mentioned there were 4 or 5 multiplayer scenarios, which I haven't checked out yet. If those also accept AI, I can live with that number. Let's hope there are further additions to the line-up because right now it's underwhelming.

As you have read the narrator's VO is bad. It's not something I remember of his other works (Kohan 1 & 2, Disciples 2) so I'm not sure what that's all about.

 

...

 

I'd say if you liked Disciples 2 than you should buy it

June 29, 2010 1:51:42 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The people that slipped in who are in North America did so because of a glitch. It wasn't suppose to be available for us.

I'm enjoying it myself but I think it seriously needs more maps for multiplayer. Also, there are some small things I'm seeing that are probably more quality of life items but I think would make a really strong addition that are just missing or broken.

The battle log in combat (toggle) if turned on doesn't scroll properly. Eventually (quickly) the current events appear off the viewable area.

In multiplayer they seem to have removed any diplomacy options.

I haven't noticed any way to get information on the buffs & debuffs shown on units. You can see the symbol but not get any info.

No real descriptions on what most abilities do.

No indication of certain abilities gained upon level up. For example - Fighter leader who didn't have the ability to grant cover gains it. This isn't indicated on the character info page and only shows in combat.

There are other things like these but I dont remember them off the top of my head.

Also, the skills tree (or grid I guess I should call it) doesn't have the same cool feel as the Disciples 1 & 2 abilities picks.

 

Over all I'm enjoying it so far but I think it could have been much better.

June 30, 2010 2:23:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Do you guys know how to use the thief in DIII, now that its a hero can they still perform events such as stealing from merchants and sabotages.  If so can you explain how because they were so important and useful in the previous disciple games.  Thanks.

June 30, 2010 4:46:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@ You guys that had minor glitches that didn't happen again when you played.

This might be a stupid question, but after you downloaded and installed the game, did you do the customary "Restart" before going straight into the game? I know most apps and games today don't "Require" you to restart machine, but I do anyway and it tends to solve a lot of those kinds of issues.

June 30, 2010 5:43:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is one I might get on sale way into the future. The new Kings Bounty has priority. Thats real quality!!

June 30, 2010 6:47:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

@louist

 

That is a great writeup. You should post this over at the Kalypso website. They also have a bug report thread going.

 

http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=38

June 30, 2010 7:45:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Chip- I may do that, but likely not this week. When I do, I'll want to tidy it up and make it a bit more coherent. I'll also have to set up a forum account with them... not that it's a painful process, but I'm starting to get tired of creating credentials. I've got dozens and dozens, but I actively use only a handful.

Still, other things come first. Today was the last of my midterms, which means I get to veg-out, tomorrow is Canada day, and I've got baseball plans on the weekend. I detest baseball, but I enjoy the rest of the equation (beer+friends+sitting).

Raven- I admit I hadn't restarted until after my tutorial play-through. Part of me worried Impulse would notice its mistake and take the game away from me!

 

::EDIT:: Ok, Chip, I've posted over on Kalypso, and updated the OP in this thread with a copy of that review. I didn't want to do it, but I decided to get the hard part of posting it (ie: making the forum account) over with now so it wouldn't impede any review writing later. That somehow snowballed into jotting down a few ideas, which in became yet another fully-fledged stream of consciousness review. I know it's full of errors I could have edited out, and isn't as organized as it should be, but it took a lot longer, and a lot more out of me than I realized, and by the end I didn't really have the mental energy to edit it. I love to write, and I love to read. I get lost in either activity and lose hours at a time. It's just a pity I'm such a poor writer!

July 2, 2010 3:20:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ugh. I just spent a long time getting my Archmage to level 3 just to find out only Lambert carries over to the next mission.

What a waste of time. And why do they have shops with expensive equipment for Archmages if you always lose them. Do the secondary heroes ever carry over in the later stages? They did in D2. 

July 4, 2010 3:11:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree with synico.

Overall, I'm enjoying the game, but it definitely could be better.  Really disappointed with how stupid the AI is.  I would of preferred the D2 system with a better AI than this D3 system with a crappy AI.

 

I've been playing the empire campaign, and it's kind of silly how easy it is to get 90-99 armor (100 is not good because it becomes immune, and the enemy will never attack your hero).

While critical strikes would go through armor and do full damage, as long as you pump up your agility you'll be fine...

 

Hound:

From what I've seen, only your main hero carries over.

And any runes and artifacts he carries gets transferred to the next mission.  Not potions though for some unexplained reason.

But recall that in D2, you choose which hero your carry over, and you could only carry over a single hero

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