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The speed stacking, no mana, and no HP Oak build

By on February 12, 2010 9:35:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Katana posted his build, so here is mine. This is my favorite Oak build. Lest you think it crap, it is playable and competitive. I've beaten Tier 1 players with it. I'll play no noob games with noobs on my team and it has carried me to wins. Here is my build, which took me a while to figure out:

1. Raise Dead Ward

2. Morale

3. Save

4. Ward 2/Morale

5. Shield 1

6. Morale

7. Ward 3

8. Morale

9. Save

10. Ward 4/Morale

11. Shield 2

13. Shield 3

14. Surge of Faith I

15. Surge II

Favor:

Ring of Divine Might is necessary without question. It's AoE allows easy farming of creeps, up to priests. The damage is fantastic as well. Horn of Battle got hit with a big nerf, so it's not that great anymore.

Items:

Priests

Gladiator gloves

Level I Minotaurs

Level I Seige Archers

Scaled Helm (We're going to sell it soon, so it doesn't count as a mana item.)

Forest Band

Boots of Speed

Ironwalkers

Wand of Speed

Gloves of Fell Darkur (Sell Scaled)

Cap locks

Combat mana potion

Side note: These item choices may not work if your opponents also stack speed or if your opponents have a snipe regulus. Adding in a few health items works well. In fact, you can stack all heath items and tank very well. This built is meant to take down towers in the fastest time possible. Adapt the items to your playstyle.

 

Playstyle

It's your job to destroy every single tower on the field. Early game, you will have to stick close to your flag. When you get a full complement of spirits, fling them at a tower along with your idol minions. Resummon and repeat. Stay out of direct contact of any Demigod, as they will kill you 1v1. By level 4-7, you should be able to use your minions to control a flag. Weaken a Demigod to about half health, and then confront him, especially if you have Shield I. You should also be fast enough to escape ganks when necessary.

Minion armor is a beast. Ironwalkers got reduced in price, and it is really good! Along with Forest band, you will be able to take out two or three towers with ONE minion wave at levels 7-10. If you are able to set up a Ward next to enemy towers, your creeps will get an additional 400 armor at level 7 and 500 armor at level 10. One creep wave will devastate multiple towers at this point. Morale provides a lot more armor, too. AA damage from towers will be pathetic.

You should prioritize your tower targets based on who your teamates are. Always take out the lane towers next to flags first. If you have some demigods that are good at ninjaing portals, then you should take out the side towers. If you have a TB, get him to freeze the towers in front of the citadel while your minions demolish them. After that, start flinging waves of minions at the citadel.

If you don't want to prioritize towers, that's fine. Stack HP gear with maybe 1 or 2 minion items. Your opponents will be burning sigils trying to escape your horde. It's hilarious and satisfying to watch them sigil from my measly lil' minions.

If you notice, this build only uses basic idols. The high tier idols are expensive and only improve 6 total minons. I would rather use that gold to invest in items that will make all of my minons superior. I can resummon idol minions frequently enough that I do not mind the fact that they die easily. Level 4 minotaurs, demolishers, and priests are sort of my "artifact" items.

Also, spam Ring of Divine Might. It does a fantastic job of farming until late midgame.

When not to use this build:

Don't use it against Ice TB or QoT. Ground spikes, Frost Nova, and Rain of Ice will wreak this build. Luckily, these are among the least used Demigods. Fire TB is maneagable. My minions are fast enough that they can usually skirt by Ring of Fire.

Don't use it if you're the only general (maybe). You aren't meant to tank or provide monk support early game. It's your job to knock shit down. It's much harder to use this build if your allies rely on monk support.

Where this build will own:

Any Demigod without significant AoE will get schooled by this build. That consists of everything besides the two Demigods above. The only caveat is making sure your teammates have monk support.

Another Oak may decide to copy you midgame. He likely won't have the Ring of Divine Might or Morale. He probably stacks health and mana items as well. These make him a pansy Oak. You will shred his towers faster than he shreds yours. You will be able to push him off flags with your minions and take his flags.

What I want you to do:

Start up a 1v1 on single player and use my items as shown. Set the starting level to level 10 and set starting gold on high. Buy as many items in my build as you can. Fling minions at towers, and see if they fall as fast as I say they do. Once you see the ownage, I think some of you may use this build. Happy razing!

+38 Karma | 39 Replies
February 12, 2010 9:36:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
February 12, 2010 9:50:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When I posted a build similiar to this people said it sucked oh well it really is a great build ^.^

February 12, 2010 10:09:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This will not work in PUG games. If you're playing with people and they know exactly what you're doing, it should be viable, but probably not the best build.

February 12, 2010 10:16:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good minion build epi.  Swift anklet works well for this build as well. 

j

 

February 12, 2010 10:16:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've won PUG games with this. You've just got to have another general on your team for monk heals.

P.S, Why can't I upload replays to gamereplays? It says that it's not a valid replay file.

February 12, 2010 11:08:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Shiro, why did people say it was crap? It's a great build. It just requires a higher level of situational awareness and microing.

Also, Split, I've been able to beat every other type of oak in my lane starting from levels 4-7. You just won't be able to participate in ganks.

February 13, 2010 12:00:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Splitshadow,
This will not work in PUG games. If you're playing with people and they know exactly what you're doing, it should be viable, but probably not the best build.

Yes, unlike Assassin builds, this will fall on its face if your teammates suck. This is a similar issue that Hybrids share.

Split, this is actually almost the exact build (different level 10+ skills) that I used in that one 2v2 game except I get Theugists Cap instead of Ironwalkers and I get Del-Fur before Wand.

February 13, 2010 4:01:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've updated it with two replays.

February 13, 2010 7:26:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Nice build, though I'm not convinced it will work against a balanced out premade it certainly seems fun!

February 13, 2010 7:36:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have never vs'd this build so can't really comment that accurately, but a few things I noticed:


1) no interrupt - the only kills you will be getting are vs noobs without tp's?

2) purchasing tower regen + tower DMG early may help counter the build?

3) a team should always have some form of AoE, whoever has the AoE can just teleport to tower and save it?

4) you will be worthless in team fights for your team? (no shield / pent / surge)

5) you will have a very weak early game? (= cant hold flag = enemy gets currency 1st)



I put question marks because I am not stating them as truth, merely theory.

I'll check the replays out at some point.

February 13, 2010 7:52:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is the general rule for minion builds:

The more enemies, the more there are in between you and the towers

The more enemies, the more likely AoE is going to be present

The more enemies, the more likely one of them is going to be able to make it to you and kill you in .001 seconds

The more enemies, the more they can rotate flag duties so you can't cap anything

 

1v1 and 2v2 Minions are abesolutely devastatingly effective. Even 3v3 Cata they are strong. However, say, 4v4 Levi... not so much. I'd say minions are practically "worthless" on 5v5 Zik because they would most likely have a Reg,  and there are about a million and a half towers between you and the citadel

Minion builds change the game. It's no longer a game of kills and dancing and taking enemy portals. It's "how long can I protect this flag so that I get warscore so that I get units first so that I can push your portals and take them because you're too weak to stop me". Most effective counters to minion builds are more expensive than minions themselves (Orb of Defiance, Nature's Reckoning, Armor of Vengence, Journeyman's Treads, Universal Gadgets, FS II/III, Health Potions, Teleports) which quickly makes up the fact you're getting Cur a few minutes later than your opponents. 

Good counters also take a fair amount of foresight. 2v2 Cataract minion builds are countered by getting Amulet of Teleportation, Swift Anklet or Blood Soaked Wand depending on your play style. You can't farm. You run around like a little bitch around flags (lots of yellow-denying as well) so that the minions can't attack you. Luckily, minion builds tend to be gold and xp poor since they can't mark creeps. They can deny you the same, however.

February 13, 2010 8:08:17 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

rofl I watched the 2nd game, you guys kept the pressure up SO much they weren't even able to kill a single tower

god damn those minions did a shit load of dmg lvl 7+, totally wrecking towers + demigods alike


it must be a similar build to those minion erebus builds i used to hate as my slam rook, with just bite + minions. they would stand there, spamming bite, all minions on me, rook can't run at all, i had 8k hp and 50% armor and they just chewed through it, tanked my slams, and even if you try to tp out, their dps is so high you die before it goes off


February 13, 2010 9:09:27 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That second replay you linked was painful .

As Hedgie says minion builds kinda break the game, since you spend most of your time/effort trying to prevent them from tearing down your base, while the summoning demigod just sits back out of danger.

Problem is you waste all your mana/hp/items/upgrades fighting minions and get nothing in return aside a ticket back to crystal, meanwhile minions keep respawning for near zero cost.

Maybe they should bring back gold/xp/sumthing in return for killing minions, though at a tiny amount, that way if you kill a shitload of minions you get something valuable in return. Mind you im talking about very very litle gold/xp/whatever per minion killed, so it would only be worth sumthing against real minion spammers, otherwise i understand assassins would have a reasonable advantage over generals. But then again, aren't generals better than assassins as of now?

Another thing that comes to mind is creating a Trinket/whatever that damaged the summoner demigod per each minions u killed, lets say 50hp per minion. This way you could at least counter minion builds if u dont have a Queen or Torch in your team.

Dunno, pure minion builds annoy the h*ll out of me .

February 13, 2010 9:24:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree. I think minions work really retardedly. I wont go on and on again, but I agree 100% nom.

February 13, 2010 11:18:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Minions should give some xp/gold like nomilarac said. Because lot of minions builder just send their minions when they are far away....like at citadel or in the middle of nowhere.

February 13, 2010 12:22:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Split, this is actually almost the exact build (different level 10+ skills) that I used in that one 2v2 game except I get Theugists Cap instead of Ironwalkers and I get Del-Fur before Wand.

Yes but we were on vent, you told me what you were doing, and you're good enough to pull it off.

February 13, 2010 6:59:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Minions should give some xp/gold like nomilarac said. Because lot of minions builder just send their minions when they are far away....like at citadel or in the middle of nowhere.

The only tweak that minions /really/ need is that they should be unable to attack the citadel. That would no longer make 2x pure-minion builds viable in a 2v2 Cataract game. One would be fine, but Two... :-/

The secondary tweak (which is debatable) is that minion ITEMS (not Favor or Skills or Morale) should not have an affect after a certain range (30-50 yards or so).

February 13, 2010 11:31:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting primz,
Minions should give some xp/gold like nomilarac said. Because lot of minions builder just send their minions when they are far away....like at citadel or in the middle of nowhere.

Problem with that is that they're still a skill -- nobody gets XP or Gold for surviving Fireballs from TB or Spit or anything.  Make 'em give gold and XP and using them could just give an advantage to the enemy who gets more stuff to kill.

February 14, 2010 10:51:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ah, the oak minion build.

 

so much fun in the right circumstances.  as mentioned above, vs teams without aoe you simply rock their face.

 

once they have aoe, which comes in the form of tb, ub, qot,reg...not so effective.

 

im a oak player, ill go m inion when im against a team who doesnt have these DGs.  it livens things up a bit from your typical hoss assassin oak build. 

those minions do hella dmg once you get going. 

February 14, 2010 10:55:46 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting cwsault,

Quoting primz, reply 15Minions should give some xp/gold like nomilarac said. Because lot of minions builder just send their minions when they are far away....like at citadel or in the middle of nowhere.
Problem with that is that they're still a skill -- nobody gets XP or Gold for surviving Fireballs from TB or Spit or anything.  Make 'em give gold and XP and using them could just give an advantage to the enemy who gets more stuff to kill.

6 of them are not skills, they are items.

You cannot cast a fireball back at your crystal and have it follow you do attack whenever you want.

February 14, 2010 11:01:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Teseer,
I agree. I think minions work really retardedly. I wont go on and on again, but I agree 100% nom.
you are just a minion hater >.>

February 14, 2010 11:02:53 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,


The secondary tweak (which is debatable) is that minion ITEMS (not Favor or Skills or Morale) should not have an affect after a certain range (30-50 yards or so).

Bull shit!

February 14, 2010 11:04:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting cwsault,

Quoting primz, reply 15Minions should give some xp/gold like nomilarac said. Because lot of minions builder just send their minions when they are far away....like at citadel or in the middle of nowhere.
Problem with that is that they're still a skill -- nobody gets XP or Gold for surviving Fireballs from TB or Spit or anything.  Make 'em give gold and XP and using them could just give an advantage to the enemy who gets more stuff to kill.

Me like this idea!

February 14, 2010 11:11:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting nomilarac,
That second replay you linked was painful .

As Hedgie says minion builds kinda break the game, since you spend most of your time/effort trying to prevent them from tearing down your base, while the summoning demigod just sits back out of danger.

Problem is you waste all your mana/hp/items/upgrades fighting minions and get nothing in return aside a ticket back to crystal, meanwhile minions keep respawning for near zero cost.

Maybe they should bring back gold/xp/sumthing in return for killing minions, though at a tiny amount, that way if you kill a shitload of minions you get something valuable in return. Mind you im talking about very very litle gold/xp/whatever per minion killed, so it would only be worth sumthing against real minion spammers, otherwise i understand assassins would have a reasonable advantage over generals. But then again, aren't generals better than assassins as of now?

Another thing that comes to mind is creating a Trinket/whatever that damaged the summoner demigod per each minions u killed, lets say 50hp per minion. This way you could at least counter minion builds if u dont have a Queen or Torch in your team.

Dunno, pure minion builds annoy the h*ll out of me .

And what makes a minion spammer? Someone who refuses to play like everyone else and treat every damn demigod like a efing assassin instead of an actual general?

February 14, 2010 3:55:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If the generals were all insanely weak and reliant on minions to deal damage it would be fair, but generals are just as good as assassins + they have minions that let them destroy everything while still being able to 1v1 you. The exceptions of course are UB and QoT.

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