You're a ri-tard if you don't.....

By yeahneil on January 11, 2010 12:22:09 AM from

So, I know there have been a few posts a while ago about 'universal truths' or whatever, and if this is or gets redundant, just let it die-- anyway, here we go. An all random game inspired me to write this: we were sed, rook, da (i think, my memory is shot) against ub, ub, da. I assumed we were dead as long as they got priests out quick, but we stayed together and helped each other when needed and won the game. The interesting part was my rook (i think shiro) capped a portal and left like 6 or 8 towers and ported out- they couldnt push us out, so i stayed until his lock ran out uncontested, and then relocked, and tried to tp out, was watching our crystal, and my hp started decreasing?? Da had swapped me in the nick of time and he and the two ub's started dominating my face in the middle of the tower farm. I had the basic five combo (hauberk, Nimoth, ub boots, plenor, vlemish)-- nothing special-- and lvl 4 priests. Granted, right as he swapped me a full wave of creeps including catas came out and helped me, but i proceeded to kill all 3 of them by healing and using a sigil and healing, pouncing, etc. Needless to say I was amazed and surprised, as I'm sure they were as one of them raged.

Sorry about the wall of txt.

I realized that the only (or main) reason I survived 3v1 was because neither of the beasts had ooze!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Which is my point and question: is there a short list of things that in most games you SHOULD or MUST take? I know that it 'depends on demis and maps and situation etc. blah blah blah,' but in my opinion certain things should not be skipped 99% of the time. Again, pretty sure this has already been asked, but I was curious if a general consensus had been reached.

For example: Oak, lvl 3 shield. Beast, all of ooze (hybrid or pure, doesnt matter), DA lvl 5 swap (or just very early swap, and all 3 pts), erebus all bite pts, rook lvl 5 roll (or very early roll), etc.

Edit: P.S. I meant this question for fairly high level games only-- of course there are plenty of times/games when u can and should experiment or play a random/stupid/fun build.

+1 Karma | 20 Replies

monk on a general as first item is a given probably, especially new players should start with that as an obvious choice. To get more benefit out of any other item at the start of the game you need to really good imo and even than cant think of much that will help you and team more.

But than again ppl should be allowed to experiment

Quoting iokke,

reply 1

Queen laned against a Sedna on 2v2 Cata does better with Scaled Helm + Banded. Esp since Counter Healing @8 just nullifies monks anyway. The Queen can kite the Monk while still hitting the Sedna if she isn't position correectly. If she pulls back her monks, Queen can contest the flag because of shield and Sed can choose to oom herself with heal (and since the Queen has better regen AND a helm, that won't happen) or pull back her monks and risk Queen kiting them again.

Also, if you have 3 generals on your team you probably don't need 6 pairs of monks it is much better for one of them to go an Assassin build or just wait until tier II (1500 gold) before purchasing monks

Yup they were my towers ^.^

I don't think so hedgie. Getting helm on queen is stupid. Monks far outdamage and outheal those two shields you get from helm and probably are also better than Banded's 400 hp. 400 hp is like 10 hits from double monks anyway.

shiro.....how come we sucked it up 3 games in a row only winning one and then you go out and win a game without me.....and i was playing well

although the last game was unfair...we had toomany fing rooks

Shieldless QoTs and Oaks, Healless Sednas, Towerless Rooks, Oozeless Beasts, Biteless Erebi, Swapless Demons, Snipeless Regs, and non-switching TBs all suck, and should not be used outside of noob games, <30%. I can imagine ballless Ocks sucking as well.

Quoting The_Regicide,

reply 7

I've seen a minion build, shieldless oaks (aviper) that was very dangerous.

I've seen a very dangerous oozeless beast (ogham).

I've a dangerous icebearer (dxerg).

The build is only as good as it's user.

Ive never seen a bite less Erebus... Ok a Decent bite less Erebus. The one Im thinking of was just a joke

i've seen 3 regs winning against 3 beasts... well ok.. i dont but in my imagination its possible. nevertheless generally regs aint as good as beasts. so if you have seen an oozeless beast rockin then not because oozeless beasts rock but because in that special case the other team plain SUCKED.

Quoting Derog,

reply 10

1 reg is not as good as 1 ub.

3 reg vs 3 ub is something entirely different - I predict AoE is king.

Ive never seen a bite less Erebus...

Well before the HoB nerf i didn't get bite till lvl 7 .........................................................................................

its not different grimunk. perhaps early game its a bit difficult because of snipe. but the enemy are regs so the beasts just need teleportation scrolls or pots and there is nothing the regs can do. they just waste their mana. as soon as the beasts have reached lvl5 they have spit and inner beast lvl 2. that means one ranged attack for 800 damage and they are fast enough to get to the regs to stun them. also they propably have the basic mana/hp/speed equipment. at this point the regs are done.

and if the regs make it to the giant stage then the beasts should have lvl4 ooze which means the regs cant take them on 1on1 and all 3 beasts together do 400 dmg/sec by just standing around which is almost like one mine per second. do you know how fast a reg dies when three beasts spit (lvl4) and then grasp? well... of course only if the regs get in range. but if they dont they cant hold the flags... hm a dilemma...

Lol. SHieldless oaks? Shield isn't as hot as you think it is. I have beaten every assasin oak I've played and I consider a shield oak as plain inferior to a good hybrid. Sure it's awesome that you can't die after level 7. But you know what's awesome too? Mass spirits instagibbing towers, or 2vs1 with super surge healing. Assasin oak is just a remnant out of the time people though minions were bad. Guess what _shadow showed them wrong.

These universal truths are always bad. Sure I've never seen a working healless sedna no matter what Archon is claiming BUT a shieldless qot(or low shield) is a pretty good build dare I say much much better than shield builds. Hammerrook is no longer competetive in the metagame but I once used it and it certainly isn't as bad as people claim.

P.S. I do get shield later on though.

I play a hybrid build, and I always get shield III at level 7. I usually don't get minions until after level 10. I have heard that Assassin oaks that rank divine justice asap do a decent job countering minion oaks, althought I haven't tried it.

You get 70-80 from every spirit you kill. 3 hits from a spirits does a 100 dmg. Also the hybrid oak gets 80 extra weapon dmg.

I've been screweing around with a healless build. It's... fun but far from viable. The only tier 1 it can really do well against is Oak. It does decent against a Rook without towers but the second they have the towers up :-/

Loses against a heal-Sedna as well. So basically it just does well against TB/Reg. Sorta decent against Queen but she can typically shield/mulch away a lot of your pounces and if she goes open then your only option is to pounce the Ground Spikes or Silence it because if she does that in a creep wave you're going to get pushed back with no heal.

However, it is a very fun build and I try to get Journeyman's very quick (read: sell my items for it), then run around constantly capping capping portals. If they port in, you just run since they can't catch you and it costs them 250 gold. However, it is far from a "winning" build, just something fun to do.

Spirits pretty easily have 1k + hp. Against a minion Oak I get NR + DJ II by level 8. Between Surge and NR I'm typically cleaning up spirits pretty fast. You lose your pent, of course, but you arne't using pent much anyway against a Minion Oak... :-/

It does decent against a Rook without towers but the second they have the towers up :-/

But 99.9% of rook players start with ToL I.

Quoting Splitshadow,

reply 18

It does decent against a Rook without towers but the second they have the towers up :-/

But 99.9% of rook players start with ToL I.

towers take time to put up

Also. I don't know about you but I get Boulder Roll at Level 1.

I get Boulder Roll at Level 1.

Wat. [e digicons]8(|[/e]

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You're a ri-tard if you don't.....