Thundercles

I agree with everything in this post. QoT's definitely a liability late-game if the other team is lined with top-tier DG's. No matter how well you play her, in her current state, she cannot keep up with other DG's late-game. You'd only beat top-tiers using her if your team has the better teamwork. But then, you'd beat the other team anyway, since it's all about teamwork in the end. With 'evenly matched' teams she just doesn't scale well late-game as compared to other DG's.

I have a theory that can make QoT much better without doing much.

That theory is to switch the skills Shamblers and Mulch, so mulch is on the closed skill tab with shield. 

The whole "Build army when closed and destroy armies when open" doesn't make much sense to me either.

It should be Defense & Offense mode.

As for other crazy ideas I've toyed with in a mod that may or may not be popular.

1) It wouldn't hurt to give Queen (and Sedna) 6 minions instead of 4.

eg: 1: summon 1 / max 2
2: summon 1 / max 3
3: summon 2 / max 4
4: summon 2 / max 6  

2) Compost could give a & health or mana steal when active.

When open you get health per hit

When closed you get mana per hit 

This will help with staying power in the lane if you want to play her like a tank.

3)  Spike wave

 When a DG is impaled and under the affect of ground spikes a hit with a spike wave should interrupt item usage (not skills) and should prevent item usage for a few seconds.

This will go a long way in preventing the laughable "wow, I almost got killed by QoT, but I teleported away, or used a pot, or cast sigil lol" etc... and all the other things that prevents QoT from getting a kill when she deserves it. 

4) Entourage should pass some damage to minions *get a count, pass a % based on that count so more minions in play = more damage reduction), because they are willing to take the bullet for their magnificent goddess. (If you have no minions you take full damage)

If you slug out a QoT 1on1 with any other DG past level 12, they can usually take you with 25% life remaining. QoT also has no defense against a Hammer / Boulder Rook which will go through her shield every single time. This would help in that regard,

Thanks for reading.

I pretty much agree with everything said in this thread.

What I need are ideas that I can take to GPG that can be done in less than 30 minutes. Often times, the suggestions involve major rework and that's just not going to happen unfortunately.

My personal preference would be:

1. Bramble shield gets a major late game buff.

2. Ability to repair towers.

3. Ability to wipe out towers buffed big time.

I personally see qot as a siege unit. Very good at tearing down enemy defenses.

thats the thing, if qot is a siege unit, then she is next to worthless in a proper 3v3 fight. in 3v3 fights you need damage first and foremost, control (stuns and the ooze debuff) are also very good, but shield just wont make enough difference if you have 3 dgs pounding on one dg, that one is fleeing, his one ally is hitting back, and the qot is plonking her autoattack with an occasional ground spike, that is just negligible damage.

even the lowly regulus can do more damage than that with mines and mark of the betrayer.

torch bearer is also lowest tier demigod i would say along with qot and reg. but atleast TB can do massive aoe + decent single target damage on top of that.

damage is what counts in serious games. not shield. damage is what makes the other guys doubt their attack and retreat and qot simply cant do enough damage nor does she have any kind of control over the fight.

spike wave or ground spikes needs some buffing indeed. either increase damage, or add interrupt effect like mentioned in other posts. 

anyone who takes uproot with qot or structural transfer with rook deserves to lose the fight since taking those skills makes you useless in a real fight.

She is, ground spike is amazing at enabling towers to be destroyed by your minions at levels 7+. 

Buy the 3 level 1 minion idols, gladiator gloves and maybe 1 point in morale. Then apply a level 7 ground spike to a tower with level 1 health upgrade. Why would you put points in uproot after watching this carnage?  You should be pumping skills that allow you to push enemy DGs out of their lane so you can actually attack a tower... it's hard to apply an uproot, if say there is an Oak inbetween you and the tower... but the above listed items are useful in removing the Oak obstacle too 

me n trouser were just chatting about qot: here u go:

TrouserSnake: people keep bitchin about queen, but tbh she is deadly in the right hands at later levels. early game she is shit tho
pacov: you... uh... have that backwards
TrouserSnake: but TB and reg need something to be more viable characters in high lvl play
pacov: late game she is crap
pacov: that's the main problem
pacov: he can keep herself alive to some degree....
TrouserSnake: nah, lvl 4 ground spikes=almost instant death, esp with multiple people in a fight
pacov: you need to play qot more
pacov: seriously
pacov: late game is truly what ruins her
TrouserSnake: and at lvl 15, it gives you damage reduction
pacov: seriously
pacov: SERIOUSLY
pacov:
TrouserSnake: i dont even have to close sometimes at that point
TrouserSnake: i'm being serious...mofo
TrouserSnake: lol
pacov: i know... but think high level game.  take u me n kalel... can a qot on the other team possibly win?
pacov: its not because she was weak early game
TrouserSnake: with the right teammates
pacov: its because we can eat her
pacov: right
pacov: high level game
TrouserSnake: a queen with the same items as anyone else is unkillable
TrouserSnake: they're playing her wrong if they get into that shit
pacov: you are nuts
TrouserSnake: hehe, maybe so
pacov: let's even play a so so game against each other... we do a 3v3 with u on the other team with a qot
pacov: if its reasonably balanced, you will lost
TrouserSnake: most people think you dont need to stack any hp as queen but you do
pacov: no
pacov: i know what u mean re: hp
pacov: its just that her shield becomes useless late game, she can't interupt shit... she's naturally slow... and she can crush structures, but no focuses on that because of her other abilities
TrouserSnake: the fact that she can heal and shield herself at later lvls makes her more unkillable than a sedna
pacov: the heal is HUGE
pacov: but the shileld is a joke late game
pacov: I can pent once and shield = gone + 1 hit
pacov: or spit
pacov: or fireball
pacov: or
pacov: whatever
pacov: it needs to scale more
pacov: i still say just give her ground spikes interrupt ability... now she's fing op
pacov: end of story
TrouserSnake: yeah, shield is not a substitute for health, that's the point tho, that damage would be taken normally, but you gottta do that damage plus her hp to kill her. then she can shield again and you have to do the same amount of damage.  plus once she takes some damage while unshielded, she can heal it right back
TrouserSnake: why you dont rely on the shield, just use it as a boost
TrouserSnake: plus she can dish out a lot of damage with the ground spikes
pacov: change your thinking... say in a game with u me n kalel using erb, beast, rook... what would the qot need to win or be viable
TrouserSnake: esp if you got a wave of creeps with you
TrouserSnake: i admit alone she's not as vialbe as say an erebus or beast, but mix her with a beast, oak, or erebus and she's a much better partner than anyone
TrouserSnake: the amount of damage they take after ground spikes is ridiculous, and add on  the extra damage from a penatence or a bite and it's almost an instant kill
pacov: you are missing it... she WILL lose in the combo i mentioned... are you suggesting she doesn't need a buff?
TrouserSnake: late lvl ground spikes btw
TrouserSnake: i say she does need some sort of buff, but i think they're looking at the wrong things most of the time
TrouserSnake: esp with the minions
TrouserSnake: i mean, wtf/
TrouserSnake: ?
pacov: ok... what buff then?
pacov: I say late game shield increase for 1
TrouserSnake: well uproot needs a buff, doesnt do much more damage than a spit but it only works on structures instead of everything
TrouserSnake: and yes, shield needs a little buff for late game
pacov: i like frogboys idea about qot healing structures, but that's really a nice way of saying you are useless in a fight, but here's something you can do.
TrouserSnake: and she needs some sort of buff for being in open mode
pacov: what would you do to uproot?
pacov: what do you mean?
pacov: what would u do?
TrouserSnake: closed mode gives you extra hps, mps, and armor, but open mode gives you nothing at all
pacov: i'm so posting this shite, btw
pacov: suck it
TrouserSnake: i say give her increased attack speed and damage while open
TrouserSnake: go for it, idc
pacov: minor buffs?
TrouserSnake: yeah, about the same as the armor and shit while closed
pacov: what do you think about her movement speed?
TrouserSnake: thought about that too
pacov: i think buff
TrouserSnake: yeah
TrouserSnake: just slightly tho
pacov: agreed
TrouserSnake: much rather have the attack damage and speed
TrouserSnake: makes sense
TrouserSnake: close=defensive. open=offensive
pacov: what i think is strange is that she naturally has low hp... and this is to compensate for her shield... but its supposed to be a support ability
pacov: I say... make her stronger early game and make shield scale better
TrouserSnake: indeed
TrouserSnake: i say she should have the same hp as sedna
TrouserSnake: i mean, she's support
pacov: even if they f it up... wouldn't it be great to see all the top level players trying to play good qots
TrouserSnake: lol, yeah
pacov: right... not nerfed because she can shield
pacov: just dumb imo

pacov: I say... make her stronger early game and make shield scale better

THE SOLUTION for the queen:D

Off the top of my head:

Bramble Shield:

1. Give Bramble Shield the Tower of Power treatment: 1/2 mana cost at rank 4. This would let her transition from defensive play to offensive play the way half mana cost towers allow a late game tower rook to transition from pure tower spamming to hammer slamming and boulder rolling. This would also improve QoT's HP significantly by letting her focus a bit less on mana late game (ignoring the fact that she can choose to just use spikes to burn that extra mana)
   
2. Perhaps add 10 health per second to each rank of Bramble Shield? Right now one of the biggest advantages of the shield is that you can cast it before a fight, this would capitalize on that advantage and force a team to extend further than they otherwise would if they want to stop the heals. I know it may not sound like much, but that level of HP/S would add up quickly.
3. Is there any way at all to shift Goddess of Thorns around a bit? What if it buffed all friendly units inside the Ground Spikes animation area (I think it's about 10 yards? I'm sure someone has the exact figure) with the reflective damage effect and then threw the reduced damage effect onto whoever were the target of Bramble Shield? This would give the skill some parity with Heal's armor-based scaling, and it would be unique in that it would affect skill damage too (which would justify it having a lower modifier than the %40+ you get from armor at that level). Because Shield is instant, this would also give her more reliable defense than depending on an open form ability with a cast time to get her 15% damage reduction.
   

Now when it comes to making her a better siege character, I don't know if that's necessary... Max rank Ground Spikes reduces armor by 1500, which makes a character do a whopping 250% damage to towers. It's a crazy amount already and yet she's not all that popular. I think the problem is that most games just don't focus around sieging all that much. Generally players avoid double towers until around 10 and then they just steamroll them if they're left unguarded.

Whatever siege improvements she received would need to come before level 8-10 to really be useful, because by that time specific siege functionality will often be overboard or unhelpful (since winning the fight at the towers is more important than the battle with the towers themselves since as they'll fall quickly if abandoned anyway).

Whatever siege buffs you want to see on her shouldn't really come in the form of making her a more effective siege character, they should focus on making it easier to justify using the already effective siege tools she currently has. Adding a heal functionality to Uproot would do exactly that.

Another idea which may be brilliant or idiotic, you decide, would be to cannibalize the level 15 Uproot ability and just stick some AoE damage onto each rank of the ability. If QoT could use Rook's towers against him to AoE in the lane he's holding, or if she could repair a friendly rook's towers and give AoE support at the same time, that would be a very useful, albeit kind of a niche ability which may or may not be fair with/against rook. Ignoring the obvious benefits of working with Rook though, it would give her the ultimate anti-minion tower defense ability.

What would replace Violent Siege at rank 15? I dunno to be honest, I hadn't thought about it much, but something like stunning affected towers or hastening/adding armor to towers which get healed might work.

Lastly it'd be interesting if Entourage gave shamblers a very small range upgrade. Scope goes 2/4/6, so perhaps shamblers could get 1/2/3? That would have two effects. First would give Shamblers siege utility after rank 2, which would be in line with your wishes to buff QoT's siege capacity. This would do it in a way which would enable a defensive QoT to terrorize structures a bit without giving her auto-win on fortress mode. Second it would allow a skilled QoT player to micro her minions to do damage more on par with Nightwalkers and Spirits via the increase AoE range.

So there's my spiel. I *think* those changes could all be done within a day and would cover your three main goals:

• mana cost reduction makes maintaining shields much less of a burden and replenishing quickly depleted shields more practical
  
• % damage reduction provides dependable scaling defense
• HP/S buff makes shields useful between fights and makes them useful if their damage protection isn't fully consumed or consumed at all

• Uproot's more versatile functionality means good players might actually spec it, which means more siege capacity
• shamblers can safely attack towers after rank 2 Entourage
• reduced mana cost on Shield means more spikes and uproots, aka more siege

I do like Obs' way of dealing with Shield. I've always considered shield useless after level 7 or so. If you make Shield IV halve the mana cost then at least it's a CHEAP useless

I think the best way to buff Uproot is simply increase the range obscenly. Uproot + Compost can do 1100 damage to towers at level 2 for 350 mana. Thing is that it is rarely safe to get close enough to use Uproot nowadays. Esp if youare using your mana to shield (probably should). Maybe not make it able to target from the flag but something close to it?

I love this idea. This gets my vote.