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Cheaters/exploiters/losers

FrenzyMax and Sharinganx3 exploit erebus on Crucible. Still possible?

By on December 19, 2009 5:49:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When these two lovely children start losing they resort to batswarming over the chasm into our base on Crucible. BTW I thought this was fixed in a previous patch. DO NOT PLAY with FrenzyMax and Sharinganx3. Losers/griefers/all around A-holes. Also, switched character to erebus last second before match started. Usually not a problem, but it reminded me of pre-nerf erebus bullshit, I should have known it was a bad sign. Obviously set up for the exploit. It didn't happen once before it was obvious they were losing, clearly signifying they knew it was a last resort exploit. Also, premade without warning, but we knew it going in.

0 Karma | 38 Replies
December 19, 2009 6:27:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Warping over the gap on Crucible or Exile was not "fixed" and is not considered as an exploit, at least not by everyone.

December 19, 2009 12:01:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"Also, premade without warning, but we knew it going in."

 

sounds like u had warning then.  Also, they're not a good premade anyway so what does it matter?  Just a couple friends playing together... "I HATE IT WHEN PPL PLAY WITH FRIENDS ARGHHHHH... IT REMINDS ME OF HOW I DONT HAVE ANY ARGHHHH"

December 19, 2009 6:27:53 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I was Spongematt's partner in this cheatfest.

 

We knew they were a premade. We were beating them in War Score 10-7 and kills 12-6.  We were at the front of their base, all towers in the middle down, all towers in front of their gold flag down.

All of a sudden, they have our portal flag locked. WTF!

From then on, it was just bat swarm, lock, port out, repeat. There was nothing we could do but tell him to stop and continue on.  I was wondering why he went with a 5k health spec with Erebus... and now I know.


Cheaters should be banned, flogged and ridiculed. If you can't win at this game without cheating, don't play. I mean, not only are they a bad premade, they have to cheat to beat 2 random people.

December 19, 2009 6:35:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Again, this is not cheating.

On crucible, you simply have to watch your own portal flag, if you play against Erebus or someone who uses the warp stone. I have played a very similar game to yours too once. Me as Rook and a Sedna against 2 Erebus. It, was a long, drawn out game, where we gradually overpowered the enemy more and more. Of course they started to try to capture our portal flag, but they never got it, since one of us simply teleported back and killed them (or fought them away). And the reason why it was drawn out was simply because one of them always misted the creep lane later on, which slowed down the creep waves significantly. It was futile in the end of course .

Anyway, just remember to watch your portal flag on Crucible and don't forget to invest on a few more tower upgrades too and not just the first ones. I can understand that you are frustrated about such a loss, but it does not justify this extreme rant about "Cheaters/exploiters/loser".

December 19, 2009 6:40:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's cheap and it shouldn't be possible to do, but it's not a cheat.

December 19, 2009 7:35:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Again, this is not cheating.

If you are going to play crucible, keep a port on you at all times and have a watchful eye. 

December 19, 2009 8:02:24 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

or just don't play crucible  I personally can't stand the map specifically for this reason (well.. and it's so easy to draw out for everrrrrrr)

December 19, 2009 8:07:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting HorseStrangler,
It's cheap and it shouldn't be possible to do, but it's not a cheat.
we might as well call every strategy outside character builds cheap than.

December 19, 2009 8:08:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RAWRRRR,
or just don't play crucible  I personally can't stand the map specifically for this reason (well.. and it's so easy to draw out for everrrrrrr)
just think if da didnt have to target to warp

December 20, 2009 11:30:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You can buy a Warpstone or get the Cloak of Night and do it right back. Gotta do it near the middle flag though.

Edit: But I do agree, it's gay as hell.

December 20, 2009 2:39:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It doesn't look like an 'exploit' to me, but it's annoying enough to make the game not fun any more.  So I don't play vs Ereb on Crucible, and if i host a Crucible game I put 'no Ereb' in the label.  I know, lame, avoiding what I don't like.. but it makes the game more fun.  

December 20, 2009 4:51:01 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think we're losing track of the point of this post. This game was clearly set up to exploit erebus' batswarm on the map. The last second switch to erebus right before launch proves it. The playing public should be aware that these two players are planning on pulling a bait and switch.

If you want to have a drawn out portal-locking festival then say it in the lobby. DON'T just assume we have all come to a consensus that erebus is a well balanced character for Crucible, and expect a tit-for-tat locking game that I have to buy specialized equipment or favor items to combat. Yes of course it can be dealt with, I'm not fucking retarded, it doesn't mean I have to like it though.

The experienced players who have chimed in here seem to be agreeing that this mechanic sucks. I don't see how forcing players to deal with the unexpected (by the designers) and exploitable problems of a map and therefore reducing the number of balanced and playable maps even further helps anyone. In fact, I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed more. The number of playable maps is already anemic to the extreme. 

December 20, 2009 5:54:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Spongematt,
I think we're losing track of the point of this post. This game was clearly set up to exploit erebus' batswarm on the map. The last second switch to erebus right before launch proves it. The playing public should be aware that these two players are planning on pulling a bait and switch.

If you want to have a drawn out portal-locking festival then say it in the lobby. DON'T just assume we have all come to a consensus that erebus is a well balanced character for Crucible, and expect a tit-for-tat locking game that I have to buy specialized equipment or favor items to combat. Yes of course it can be dealt with, I'm not fucking retarded, it doesn't mean I have to like it though.

The experienced players who have chimed in here seem to be agreeing that this mechanic sucks. I don't see how forcing players to deal with the unexpected (by the designers) and exploitable problems of a map and therefore reducing the number of balanced and playable maps even further helps anyone. In fact, I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed more. The number of playable maps is already anemic to the extreme. 

Thanks for taking to flesh out your thoughts a little more here.  I understand what you are saying here.  You feel like 2 guys were being jerks, pulled a fast one on you with a last second change to erebus, followed by launching the game.  When they went for your base portal and started to cap it, neither you or teammate were prepared to port back to your base at the time.  So, then they locked it and kept locking over and over again.  Presumably you and your teammates had no interrupts or way to disrupt the other team. I'm guessing that covers that.

As you are aware, crucible is currently setup so that any general can port across using the cloak of night or erebus can batswarm across or any player can buy warpstone.  It is a mechanic that favors erebus (at level 5) because he can port across without any items.  It also favors generals as they can port across at level 1 with the CoN.  You can counter it without any special equipment by purchasing teleport scrolls and/or having a character that can interrupt a lock AND keeping a watchful eye.  Don't see erebus anywhere?  Wonder where he might be heading, etc. 

I personally don't have any problem with this mechanic and have to think that perhaps the developers had it in mind.  Actually, to me it seems pretty obvious that this was by design.  Even if it was slightly off, clearly a level 2 batswarm erebus would be able to bridge the gap without issue.  But as you can just barely get across with ALL of the teleport items, it seems intentional.  But, let's say its not.  They'd have to change it so that the distance between both sides is greater than batswarm 2.  That's about the only way to make it impossible.  And I don't think SD is going to shell out any money to GPG to increase the distance on both sides.  Hell, we've been asking for new maps for quite some time now and haven't even received alternate maps with just towers and portals moved.

I don't play much crucible.  Not because I have to watch my portal or what you consider an exploit, but because the distance between the crystal and waves of creeps is so short that, even with giants, good players can fight for an extremely long amount of time. 

Anyway, to me, it wouldn't impact me much if some jerk decided to make a last minute switch to erebus.  You might be dead right that these guys felt like it was some sort of exploit or that someone would complain if they chose erb.  Might I suggest a simple solution though?  Just host your own games on crucible if that's what you want to play and don't allow people with erb to play.  But, keep in mind that there are other ways to get across the gap, so keep a watchful eye on your base port and always have a tp scroll ready. 

Sure, you might want to see the map changed so that this isn't possible, but does anyone out there honestly think that's going to happen?  And if its not going to happen, then you need to just play with people that agree not to do this in advance or be ready to counter it.

 

December 21, 2009 3:30:50 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Thanks for the fleshed out response pacov, you rock!

December 21, 2009 3:35:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Teseer,
You can buy a Warpstone or get the Cloak of Night and do it right back. Gotta do it near the middle flag though.

Edit: But I do agree, it's gay as hell.
tried it, never worked for me.

December 21, 2009 4:00:43 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
zoom in on the other side when u wrap. Seriusly its noobish not to know that.
December 21, 2009 4:06:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting irek1988,
zoom in on the other side when u wrap. Seriusly its noobish not to know that.
Or maybe I simply don't bother to try and do every little thing that people consider exploits in game.  guess it's also noobish I nver bothered to learn how to play UB.

December 21, 2009 4:10:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Another counter, for everyone but espiecially if you're an Assassin is just the Teleportation Amulet. You don't burn ports, since they are free (if they port out, they ARE burning ports). And you can start porting from level one, and, most likely, a level 1 or 2 or 3 demigod is not going to be able to fight you if they got Cloak of the Night (even if you got Amulet) when you are standing right next to your portal and crystal. They most likely won't have monks, esp if 500 gold went to a port and lock.

December 21, 2009 4:14:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

(if they port out, they ARE burning ports)
They don't need to port out. Erebus can just mist when there is trouble and wait until his bat swarm is ready again and then warp out.

December 21, 2009 4:32:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"They don't need to port out. Erebus can just mist when there is trouble and wait until his bat swarm is ready again and then warp out."

... yes. that is what that "if" means.

Case 1:

- Pre-level 5 Erebus with Cloak or any General with Cloak

They can get across but cannot return for 45 seconds. If you port in, they have to survive for a very long time or port out. If they have monks (early game), they probably don't have a port. If they don't have monks, they can't fight, even if you're an assassin. Later-levels you have interrupts, and unless you're a level 7 Oak, Level 7 Ereb with Charm III and against a non-instant interrupt (everyone but Oak, Beast and Sed w/ Silence),  or Sed with Silence + Pounce you won't be able to safely port out.

Case 2:

- Level 5+ Erebus without Cloak

Batswarm - Bite - fight for a few seconds - mist for 8 seconds - Batswarm costs roughly 2.5k mana. That is a lot, and requires two helms. He's probably going to have to go to base. If he tries to batswarm again to your base before going back to the crystal, he will most likely won't have the mana to fight it out  or perma-mist unless he is fed.

Case 3:

Level 5+ Erebus with Cloak

CoN in - Bite - Batswarm , wait for 15 seconds... Batswarm. Okay, yes, blinky-bus will be a royal pain the freakin' ass and doesn't require two helms to maintain this so it's much easier. Anyway, best way to deal is have your partner break down towards him, then you port up to the middle with Amulet or whatever, so that you aren't kept out of the leveling lanes.

Amulet is still one of the best counters as an Assassin, however.

December 21, 2009 5:02:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Why would you go there at lvl 5 lol. its no point to go there till u get catas. so that is war rank 8 about lvl 11-15. By then most people have 2 helmets and 1500 boots = shit load of mana. So before someone sees u batswarm there 5 sec, port 3 sec so you actually need to fight for another 7 sec before batswarm out again if they stun you just tp away. 7 sec to kill 4000-5000 hp ereb with bite healing ability is not really much time. synnworld How many more times do you need to hear its not exploit, before it gets into ur head. Even tb on this map can throw fireballs across from crystal. Not knowing range of ur skills is seriusly proof of being noob. Besides ur game lists proofs it more then anything. I am just suprised that person who wins about 5% of their games got so much to say/teach other people about. Seriusly man its not chess if u played over 200 games and god knows how much single and still u cant keep ur winning rate over 50% (in ur case 25%) u better finding ursefl easier game. Try some of G rated games in impulse. Seriusly people like you Jagger and Zen should spend more time playin the game then postin here, to get some expierience and understand problems people are facing more deeply. This game is heaven for causal players but for most hardcore ones its just plain waste of time in current state.
December 21, 2009 5:07:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Clearly a map change is not in the works. This is obvious from numerous frogboy posts discussing the matter. But I think it could be simpler than that. Erebus' batswarm and other short, non-targeting, teleporting abilities need to be limited from crossing gaps. This would effectively eliminate any degenerate map-related exploits and would permanently put the issue to rest. The question is: Is the benefit (to the overall gameplay experience) of crossing chasms worth the destructive and easily exploitable side-effects? NO. Is the reintroduction of Crucible as a balanced and fun map worth the lack gap jumping? YES. Discuss.

December 21, 2009 5:19:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

An easy fix would be to put up additional Towers of Light and Archer towers around the portal and portal flag. This could even be done with a simple mod. However, Erebus will still have a big advantage, since he can still warp from his own base to the middle part and vice versa.

December 21, 2009 5:55:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
yup Good idea Thre is like 5 towers protecting portal on zik. We could have same on cruc. very easy to do too
December 21, 2009 2:34:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I like this. 

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