The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

FPS Genre: Is It Going Downhill?

Thoughts?

By on December 8, 2009 10:11:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

From what it looks like, FPS games seem to be going downhill. Many "modern" FPSes seem to be oriented around a very basic singleplayer campaign and "extensive" online multiplayer, where one is supposed to primarily play. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing necessarily, but I would prefer a more balanced approach between singleplayer campaign/"instant action" and LAN/online multiplayer.

Another trend that seems to be appearing is that FPSes are starting to become more and more of a "wreak wonton violence and destruction" and "kill everything in my way" games. I'm not saying that certain games that are like this are necessarily bad (sometimes it IS fun to kill everything in one's way or wreak wonton destruction upon the other players (or even the map)), but when that is the ONLY thing that EVERY (or almost every) game is based on, it is a problem.

On the flipside, other games, like action, adventure, RPG, RTS, 4X, etc. etc. seem to be getting more complex, deeper, more "open-ended" gameplay that immerses the player in multiple avenues of objective completion. As opposed to the "kill everything" approach of most mainstream FPS games.

Not all FPS games follow this pattern (older Battlefield titles, and others are an example; older Battlefield is also the golden age of EA you could say), but many modern and upcoming titles seem to be going this route more and more.

Thoughts?

+58 Karma | 64 Replies
December 15, 2009 5:05:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Luckmann,
Was it ever uphill?

Yes.

More innovative FPS is going down-hill. Console multiplayer FPS is definitely going uphill. Think about it, three years ago (before the 360 which came out sometime 2006) playing a console FPS online wasn't such a common thing. Now, you'd be crazy not to get into the craze. The console FPS games (and all console games in general) are starting to become more and more like PC games with their features, and this is pretty much what console developers profit off of. The blatant rehashing of tried and proven formulas for PC, then selling it to the younger audience nets them millions. Fortunately for the developers, most of the people playing MW2 and Halo 3 online are too young to have experienced arguably better FPS games of the past generation, and therefore do not know what they are missing.

On the flipside, other games, like action, adventure, RPG, RTS, 4X, etc. etc. seem to be getting more complex, deeper, more "open-ended" gameplay that immerses the player in multiple avenues of objective completion. As opposed to the "kill everything" approach of most mainstream FPS games.

That is arguable. Almost every blockbuster these days are sequels or spiritual sequels, and many "new" series often borrow heavily from tried and true formulas.

December 15, 2009 6:20:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Stalker is, by far, my favorite FPS. If Deus Ex and Stalker had a baby, I would make a small large shrine in it's glory, but never play, for am I not holy enough.

I would make a pilgrammage to your shrine.

I think for a FPS game to avoid a date with boredom, it has to invest in story. A sense of meaning is what separates half-life, deus ex and the like from hard-boiled marine makes corpse pyramid. Stimulate the players imagination and you inspire...fail to engage it and you have succeeded in creating a chore simulator.

December 15, 2009 9:39:50 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It was already mentioned, but Mirror's Edge comes to mind as a FP game that tried to do something different with the genre, and didn't exactly succeed: fantastically fun game, first person parkour is a blast, and the "runner vision" system meant that you were rarely, if ever, stuck on what to do next, but it was a little "too" innovative. A lot of people apparently had trouble with the fact that you couldn't tell exactly where your feet were, and the infamous "roll landing" caused a lot of headaches and nausea.

I don't think that FPS's are going downhill, but I do think that a certain kind is reaching ascendancy: the fast-paced, run and gun multiplayer shooter is basically being polished to a mirror finish. As for Single-Player experience. . . well, the F.E.A.R. series did pretty well for me (by pretty well, I mean kept me up late at night holding a large stick hoping that a little girl in red wouldn't come to pull out my bones.)

December 16, 2009 2:46:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting vindKtiv,


More innovative FPS is going down-hill. Console multiplayer FPS is definitely going uphill. Think about it, three years ago (before the 360 which came out sometime 2006) playing a console FPS online wasn't such a common thing. Now, you'd be crazy not to get into the craze. The console FPS games (and all console games in general) are starting to become more and more like PC games with their features, and this is pretty much what console developers profit off of. The blatant rehashing of tried and proven formulas for PC, then selling it to the younger audience nets them millions. Fortunately for the developers, most of the people playing MW2 and Halo 3 online are too young to have experienced arguably better FPS games of the past generation, and therefore do not know what they are missing.

 

You pretty much nailed it.  What we're seeing now is a resurgance of the 'Doom-clone' era, only it's the 'Halo-clone' era now.  For a while, that's all developers spit out on PC; medoicre FPS' desperate to get in on the gravy train.  Then gamers smartened up and released most of these games were terrible, and the overflow of FPS' slowed down to allow quality to seep through again (Duke Nukem 3D, Half-Life, etc.).  Lazy developers are just doing the same on consoles these days, and it too will eventually cause a backlash as people get sick of the genre.

December 16, 2009 9:21:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting lbgsloan,

Lazy developers are just doing the same on consoles these days, and it too will eventually cause a backlash as people get sick of the genre.

Most of the intelligent gamers I know have been sick of the FPS genre since the mid 90's. There are very few shooters these days that have any quality.

Lets take an example of a newer FPS that has tried to bring something slightly new into the genre. Borderlands...

My wife has been playing Borderlands mostly for the last month or so since I picked it up. I lost interest in it within the first few days after I bought it. Why did I loose interest in it? Because within the first few minutes of installing it and playing I noticed a few things. A: The physics in the game sucks and is almost non-existent. B: Interactivity with the environment is Non-existent. In the first town you start in you find boxes and barrels and all kinds of things really. I saw a beer bottle on top of a barrel and thought "hey, target practice", and then I shot it. At first I thought I missed because nothing happened, so I got closer and shot it again. Then I unloaded a entire clip directly into the little glass bottle sitting on top of the barell...and nothing.

So they put all that work and all that money into making a game with a great loot system just to kill the game by having no interactivity with the environment. I thought that was extremely lazy of the developers and it just killed the game for me. The only things in the game that you can have any effect on are the enemies. Everything else in the environment is static. That just doesn't cut it for me in a shooter these days when we have computers capable of putting characters into living interactive worlds. Worlds where shooting glass will make it shatter differently every time you shoot it. Worlds where if a target is standing behind a wooden door or wall you can still shoot it because , NEWSFLASH, bullets go through wood. Borderlands has nothing even remotely close to these aspects, yet Half-Life 2, which came out years ago, has all of them. Farcry has these environmental effects too, as does Halo to some extent. Crysis and Crysis Warhead have the best environmental and physics effects I've ever seen in a shooter.

How come that kind of love and detail and attention to the surrounding environment weren't put into Borderlands? Lazy Developers...which is surprising because 2K Games usually puts out good work.

The "long story short" of it though is that the FPS genre is by far the one area of gaming that is still, in my eyes at least, stuck in the stone age. The whole genre needs a serious injection of innovation and love put into it if it's going to make a serious come back.

Btw, Halo was a Doom clone too, so technically we're still in the Doom clone era. Then again wasn't Doom a clone of the original Wolfenstein? Not sure which of those came first now, it's been too long, but whichever it was, all Fps's can be considered clones of it.

December 16, 2009 10:33:04 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

well, not every FPS would be a clone of Doom/Wolfenstein. I'm pretty sure my beloved Battlefield series (even though EA is pure evil; it is good that DICE makes the Battlefield series, and EA only markets it, though EA has nearly ruined it with the draconian DRM) isn't a clone (Battlefield was probably one of the most innovative FPS games of its time IMO).

One thing I do like is interactive environments (probably one of the few features I liked in MW1). This is one of the reasons I have simply fallen in loved with Epic's UDK. The potential to create the perfectly destructible environment. Not just interactive, but perfectly destructible. It would be simple perfection to craft a beautiful (in terms of quality that is) map/landscape, and then let loose some crazy players with the most destructive weaponry possible to rapidly place in game, and watch the ensuing carnage.

December 17, 2009 10:57:52 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just used the term 'Halo-clone' as that's what this generation of kids know best.  They never played Doom in it's heyday, and can't understand what was so great about it.  Halo, even if medoicre by PC standards, was the first console FPS to be done really well.  The 'gold standard' of the current-gen consoles if you will.  And yes, some games deviate from the standard formula.  Unsurprisingly, these are the games that stood out amongst the crowd (Battlefield 1942, Unreal Tournament, etc.)

And while Wolf3D was first FPS, Doom was what got the genre really going.  Wolfenstein was neat, but playing the shareware version of Doom 1 as a kid (with PC Speaker for sound!) was pretty much .  Environmental effects?  Moving platforms?  High powered weapons that turned enemies into chunks?  Awesome enemies that scared the piss out of you? Holy crap, best game ever!

There is little incentive for developers to make a really great FPS when smaller ones are shovelling them out the door.  Especially when reviewers these days seem to be afraid to give bad reviews for fear of losing their jobs.  If Shootan' Guy 17 gets a 75/100, where's the incentive to make a 90/100 game?  Your sales among the masses aren't going to be that much better.  Things need to slow down before developers will bother to try again.

December 17, 2009 2:39:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That, and new techniques for making the games are likely part of the answer.

Most games today use several modelers/texturers/coders/ad nauseum to create and implement their content. But there are a few games out their that are beginning to see what I consider the wave of the future- procedural generation.

Procedural generation (not to be confused with "random" generation) is like a basic algebraic function "machine" at its most basic (procedural generation (henceforth- "PG") that is) iteration. You put a value/set of values in, and you get a result/set of results. If you put in different values, you get different results. But put in the same value, you get the same result EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Procedural generation is entirely code-based, and, if provided with a basic database of resources (basic people, ship/vehicle/weapon parts, animals, scenery components), could easily create an entire universe.

There are already several games that use/are going to use PG. The Elite series (probably the biggest space sim game of its day, and a major milestone of that genre) was initially going to have 282 trillion PG galaxies, each with 256 star systems. Big, ain't it? The in-development (public beta product released) FPS-type game ".kkrieger" (I believe that is how its spelled) is entirely procedurally generated. The upcoming Space Sim MMO "Infinity:The Quest For Earth" will use procedural generation. The Evochron Legends game also used PG for its planets (though I:TQFE will use it for an entire galaxy).

I do understand what you are saying. Developers and game companies simply need the incentive to make great games. And it just seems they don't have it anymore.

December 17, 2009 4:31:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

On a side note...how on Earth has no one made a ninja FPS? It would be thief on steroids, especially if you went the simulator route, having to find your mark somewhere in an enormous palace with only a sketched map, climbing claws for the outside wall, a handful of Shirikens so it didn't feel like 3d shinobi, single hit katana kills, aw man...the untapped goodness. It boggles the mind that no-ones made this game yet.

December 17, 2009 5:02:20 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

a ninja FPS wouldn't actually be an FPS, but an "FPx" or Action/Adventure game. That, and most games of that sort are usually 3rd-person (which is kinda cool but kinda not; an option to switch between 1st/3rd person view, like SW:Battlefront II would be perfect for that kind of game).

I think that that is an excellent idea though.

December 18, 2009 2:27:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ninja FPS would work well as a 'Hitman' style game IMO.  Basically you're given an objective, and it's up to you how to best use your skills and equipment to reach that objective.  Basically Hitman in feudal Japan

December 18, 2009 2:54:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

*drools at lbgsloan's suggestion* I like the idea. Ninjas FTW!

December 20, 2009 3:28:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Deus Ex 3 better be at least very good....

December 26, 2009 2:52:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree with the statement, the genre kinda hit the wall. Multiplayerwise i think they managed to lead the genre to its perfection almost ten years ago with the Quake 3, original Unreal Tournament and until today my personal favorite Medal of Honor Allied Assault. From there it was all about more or less succesful attempt to recreate the quality of those games - but for me personally, aside Call of Duty none succeeded. Even with better graphics i do not find newer games as fun as this trio. But again i surely did not play every single FPS, respectively not multiplayer.

When it comes to singleplayer for me it is all about story and the dense atmosphere. The games i enjoyed most in this regard were old Project IGI and in fact not quite FPS - Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of Earth. The Modern Warfare parts of CoD series managed to close on the quality of the former (though i still have fonder memories fo IGI, for something like Cthulhu i am still waiting. But yet again i did never play the Shock games or Deus Ex, which perhaps share similar qualities { lot of talking, passages without weapon. therefore lot of running out of danger   and unprecedented feeling of fear in a game}

In short, i do not think there is much space for evolution and the possibilities to evolve are IMHO connected to the way the game is controlled, not the game itself.

December 26, 2009 3:03:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FPSs have largely always been about wanton violence----Castle Wolfenstein, Doom, etc...  usually chaotic deathmatch, and a linear storyline of wanton violence against sanctioned foes (nazis/demons).  Its been the rare FPSs that evolved that Team Deathmatch, and then even further to true team objective play (e.g. Enemy Territories).  So maybe the FPSs have been devolving lately (we still have TF2 though), but they haven't evolved up that long to really complain.

December 26, 2009 3:03:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think FPS is here to stay.   May not be improving that much right now, but it was just sooooo fun to begin with.   Nvidia's got their 3D cards coming out, and with better video and still better megabaud rates on the net, there's still more fun to be had.   With finer video resolution we might start seeing more snipers shooting from 500 yards out, and a big part of your challenge is just spotting them.    Plus now we've got 3-screen setups now, which spells peripheral vision.   Watching your 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock (and not on radar) is cool.   If reliability and baud on the internet keeps going up, I would like to start seeing some massively-multiplayer FPS.   How about some 500-on-500 capture the flag?

December 26, 2009 4:44:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

*drools at uber-long-range sniper shots, as games have too few sniper capabilities past 200 meters*

Seriously, like every game I've ever played, the snipers don't have the ability to truely "reach out and touch someone". I think the longest shot I've every done was a nearly-900m CoD4 campaign mission. And you couldn't open/close the range, you were locked at 897.? meters.

Though I saw a video of BF2142 where the shot was ~1000+ meters. The BF2 record is supposedly 977m (I doubt it), while the BF2142 record is 707 meters (apparently). What I think is terrible though, is that "250 meters" is a "long-range" shot.

An MP7A1 4.6mm SUBMACHINE GUN can hit you at 200 meters. An AK-47 can kill a man from 400 meters. A real sniper rifle kills at ranges of 800+ meters. NOT 707 or 977 or TWO HUNDRED FIFTY!

As for MMOFPS, 500vs500 CTF, interesting. I am not really an MMO guy (there are only THREE in existance I am interested in, and 1 hasn't even been to beta status yet! (they are: Taikodom (space sim MMO, marketed as "MMO social game"), OGame (MMO space strategy), and Infinity:The Quest For Earth (also MMO space sim, but better than Taikodom)), so I probably wouldn't be playing it.

And for 3-screen setups, not everyone's got one. I don't for one, and probably only 2-3 guys I know even have the ability to set one up. Most of the reason I am actually even interested in an extra monitor is because my current laptop's screen doesn't support a high enough resolution for a game I really want to be able to play properly (it runs, and all, but doesn't look right, and if I resize the windows, it gets horrible messy).

EDIT: this is the video I saw for the 707+ meter 2142 shot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hin3OJITAik

December 26, 2009 5:09:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

2-screen setup for a FPS sucks.   It's like you get the same forward-only view you had before, except now it's blown up and you get this big seam right down the middle.   It could still be made to work, though, if developers would dedicate one screen entirely to your frontward view and the other screen your radar, your ammo, your grenades, weapons on hand, health, etc..   But even that I would probably want some of that in my immediate view where I didn't have to look off to the side.

I'm sure 3-screen setups will be fairly common in about 12 months.   Just wait till the $100 video cards come out and people start keeping their spare 19" screens instead of tossing them.   It still needs some support from game developers, though.  Otherwise all you have is one big forward-only view with TWO big seams down the middle. 

December 26, 2009 7:57:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

well, I didn't mean that I would do multi-screen FPSing (multi-screen setup for a game is rather beyond me ATM).

Besides teh game with horribly high base screen for proper operation, the only other reason (a game as well) that I would get multiple monitors for my laptop is because the game will support multi-screen operations.

December 27, 2009 7:15:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Man, we do need a ninja game on PC.

As for FPS's these days I tend to look for my shoot-em-up experience in the mod world. Fallout 3 can be modded to become a decent FPS game (well, with roleplay elements of course ). For online play look no further than Battlefield 2 mod Project Realism, or if you fancy WWII action, check out Red Orchestra (mod turned standalone game). Definitely check those two out if you're sick of the run-and-gun FPS games. Project Reality has sniping across the map in some cases. You can't even see the guy if he's good. And if *you* are good, there's special satisfaction in sneaking for twenty minutes (matches often last for a couple of hours), bayonetting him and his spotter (if he's good he has a spotter buddy) and then nailing a few of his team mates with his own sniper rifle. That pisses them off real bad... 

Though you usually end up hunkering down in a building and calling in a chopper to strafe his ass.

Red Orchestra is the same thing only WWII. Forget COD series, this is for the big boys. Little boys log in, try to run-and-gun across a street and get picked off by my trusty Kar98 from so far away all I saw was a little speck moving. I never seem to get to grab a sniper kit...

December 27, 2009 11:32:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah, its a pity Red Orchestra is a Steam game. *DEATH TO EVIILLLL STEAM!!*

I have been looking at BF2 for a long time now (I have all the other titles using Refractor 2 (BF1942+Xpacks, BFV, BF2142+NS). Across the map. My dream for sniping come true! No FPS to date that I've played has truly satisfied my want for a long-range (500+ m would satisfy, but for true shock&awe, 1000+ m is a MUST) sniping (ironically, I do better with rapid fire weapons+explosives doing defense camping on the Titan in 2142, and the sniper kit was the 1st one I went through).

December 28, 2009 5:22:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It sounds like you would enjoy Project Reality then. I mean, you can pretty much expect realistic ballistics from every weapon. I had frags with assault rifles equipped with tactical scopes which would in any other game be called extreme sniping (for example I had to actually fire above the target to account for the bullet drop). One bullet usually kills, unless you got a medic around to stop your bleeding. Team play is an absolute must, however, but is actually very enjoyable because the whole mod is designed for it, there's very little ramboing going on. If you find yourself a squad which uses teamspeak, and most squads do, it can be a very cool experience.

Don't expect a gazillion frags though. You get more points for following orders than for fragging other players anyway.

December 28, 2009 8:32:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

*wishes I had a headset* Well, I hope I can type REALLY fast using the in-game chat.

Most of the time I get lots of frags is when I play mods (my current record- 1000+ on the BF2142 mod "Tofu Zombies"). Either that, or playing against unintelligent AI (I'm not really an MP guy).

January 25, 2010 9:03:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, they are. It's mostly the fault of the consoles. You can't have a tight, detailed shooter when your control scheme is as accurate as a drunken camel. There's only a certain number of things you can do well with a gamepad, and mindlessly blowing up everything in sight is one of them.

January 26, 2010 5:57:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Luckmann,
Was it ever uphill?
>>

Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108435  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000390   Page Render Time:

Stardock Magazine | Register | Online Privacy Policy | Terms of Use

Copyright ?? 2012 Stardock Entertainment and Gas Powered Games. Demigod is a trademark of Gas Powered Games. All rights reserved. All other trademarks and copyrights are the properties of their respective owners. Windows, the Windows Vista Start button and Xbox 360 are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies, and 'Games for Windows' and the Windows Vista Start button logo are used under license from Microsoft. ?? 2012 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. All rights reserved. AMD, the AMD Arrow logo and combinations thereof are trademarks of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.