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First time playing in 4 months..

By on November 26, 2009 5:17:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So the 1.2 finally comes out... First game I play, someone on the opposing team drops and every gets a desync error and the game quits 5 seconds later...

too late for a refund?

0 Karma | 16 Replies
November 26, 2009 6:04:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Email [email protected].
Maybe try playing more than one game before posting?

I always find these threads interesting, because I've never seen this. Ever. Not once since release day.

November 26, 2009 6:22:29 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


So the 1.2 finally comes out... First game I play, someone on the opposing team drops and every gets a desync error and the game quits 5 seconds later...
You should play more than one game.

 

too late for a refund?
According to Stardock's policy, yes.

November 26, 2009 8:42:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
Email [email protected].
Maybe try playing more than one game before posting?

I always find these threads interesting, because I've never seen this. Ever. Not once since release day.

Well, you've only played 50 games since the stat reset, and the critical gamestate error was implemented in a hotfix to 1.1 which came after the stat reset.

So yeah, that doesn't really impress me much?

 

November 26, 2009 9:01:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I always find these threads interesting, because I've never seen this. Ever. Not once since release day.

Stop saying this already, ZehDon. It is really annoying

Everybody who plays demigod often, gets the Invalid error. Since you dont play at all, like abuggeredhedgie said:

Well, you've only played 50 games since the stat reset, and the critical gamestate error was implemented in a hotfix to 1.1 which came after the stat reset.

You cant talk so much about the game's problems.

Invalid Gamestate Error, is one of the game's most critical issues

November 26, 2009 9:03:59 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

people clearly hallucinate when they see invalid gamestates.. Zehdon is the only sane person in this game.

November 26, 2009 9:15:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RAWRRRR,
people clearly hallucinate when they see invalid gamestates.. Zehdon is the only sane person in this game.

Yes!

Or all demigod players in the world have shitty internet connection, except ZehDon.

Also, ZehDon is right, and you guys are wrong, listen to him, he has played like 80 games

Eat that!

November 26, 2009 9:37:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

LOL Mikhail!

But yeah you are right.

I think i have even played about 30 games in a row without an error. and sometimes i get the error maybe even 3 times in a row, so yes it is a matter of luck, or better say, how many hackers are playing when you are.

All in all, i think that about 5-8% of games i have played have ended with an Invalid error. Thats not bad actually, but not good either.

Its an "acceptable loss", kinda

November 26, 2009 9:59:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

As I constantly need to explain to people here, I play mostly over VPN's rather than play Public games. I usually play three games a night, every night of the week. The roster changes daily, and I play with a random selection of around 20 people who have access to our VPN. The issue may effect a percentage of the player base, however that percentage is disporportional to the percentage not effected by it. Of the 20 or so people I play against, no one has ever seen this issue. Ever. I'm not saying it's not real - I'm just saying it's not as bad as the OP likes to pretend it is, and the fact that there are no less than 3 threads currently covering this exact issue on the front page should be more than enough. Post in one of those.

November 26, 2009 10:06:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

INVALID GAME STATE IS NOT AN BUG. It is either a very very rare incident that is core to the nature of p2p(but you should only see this once in 10.000 game or whatever), someone having some very computer issues(but again not a fault in the game engine) or most likely Someone is trying to cheat.

November 26, 2009 1:04:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ZehDon - you might be onto something the programmers need to know.  If it doesn't happen on VPN, and, believe me, it DOES                happen on the net, maybe that will help in the diagnosis.  If there's something about the VPN connection that eliminates the problem, maybe that helps find the flaw in the programming/bug/irritant.  And there still needs to be another solution when somebody doesn't figure he should take a loss, so he exploits the game and induces an 'invalid gamestate'.

One of my teammates lost his internet, in game, last night.  Took a couple hours for him to get service back.  But the game did it's job.  It counted him down, and replaced him with the AI.  We took a loss for it, when the remaining player and I could not overcome the other 3 guys.

I've posted in multiple threads about it, PRECISELY BECAUSE I'M HOPING SOMEONE WILL FIX IT !!!!!!!!!!!  I have seen no recent feedback in this thread or any of the other threads from Froggy or Stardock that they are working on it.  There was a report in the 1.2 patch that something in the game was fixed to prevent it, but maybe that was another instance.

Oh, and ZehDon, please post a forum guide to every noobie that he should read every freakin post ever made before he posts for the first time, so he doesn't repeat something you've already seen.

Now that i've vented, ZehDon and all of you have a great Thanksgiving and Holiday season.

November 26, 2009 1:40:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
As I constantly need to explain to people here, I play mostly over VPN's rather than play Public games. I usually play three games a night, every night of the week. The roster changes daily, and I play with a random selection of around 20 people who have access to our VPN. The issue may effect a percentage of the player base, however that percentage is disporportional to the percentage not effected by it. Of the 20 or so people I play against, no one has ever seen this issue. Ever. I'm not saying it's not real - I'm just saying it's not as bad as the OP likes to pretend it is, and the fact that there are no less than 3 threads currently covering this exact issue on the front page should be more than enough. Post in one of those.

Well, still doesn't impress me. Surprise, surprise, I never get invalid gamestates whenever I play PM v PM or with my friends, only when I'm pugging or playing against pugs. Why? Because hackers do it. The fact that none of your trusted 20 friends are hackers impresses no one and means that your expierence is purely anecdotal and has no actual similarity with the actual condition of Demigod. I would assume you would be able to realize that you trust the 20 people of your VPN enough they wouldn't be cheating (plus, as the game isn't recorded in the first place, there is no point in desync'ing either) that they wouldn't do it and you wouldn't try to be all 'lol, doesn't happen to me!'

Thanks. See yeah 'round.

November 26, 2009 6:11:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Mikhail,
...If there's something about the VPN connection that eliminates the problem, maybe that helps find the flaw in the programming/bug/irritant. And there still needs to be another solution when somebody doesn't figure he should take a loss, so he exploits the game and induces an 'invalid gamestate'.

The difference is marginal, the main source of the desync error is human or connection based. People exploit the way in which Demigod can use real-time LUA files, and people often over-estimate their connection and computer's performance and as such blame the game for the repeated error. All of this can be minimised, but I'll be interested to see how the LUA file exploits are handled by GPG and Stardock as, with my limited programming knowledge, it wouldn't be an easy thing to correct.

Quoting Mikhail,
Oh, and ZehDon, please post a forum guide to every noobie that he should read every freakin post ever made before he posts for the first time, so he doesn't repeat something you've already seen.

Repeating an issue is fine, it offers an insight into multiple cases for the QA team to use which speeds up the process for solving the error/glitch/bug, etc. Making a post consisting of 34 words, offering no details of any kind - no system specs, no connection info, no log files - and bitching about a well known issue isn't.
Just to condense that into Post-It note form:
Reporting = Ok.
Bitching = Annoying.

Quoting Mikhail,
Now that i've vented, ZehDon and all of you have a great Thanksgiving and Holiday season.

Although I'm not actually American, please enjoy your holidays! I hope your Turkey isn't dry!

Quoting abuggeredhedgie,
Well, still doesn't impress me. Surprise, surprise, I never get invalid gamestates whenever I play PM v PM or with my friends, only when I'm pugging or playing against pugs. Why? Because hackers do it.

Congratulations, you've figured out a 6 month old issue. Welcome to the fold. Now, suggestions on how to prevent real-time file manipulation in engine designed to allow it without requiring pre-cacheing a read-only state of the entire game into a user's RAM?

November 26, 2009 6:27:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I get the invalid gamestate errors on average every 30 games or so. I haven't had many, and I've played over 200 games. They are there, but IMO the game is worth playing. It has some crashes, glitches, and lockups, but we can help that by submitting good bug reports. As a developer, the better the bug report, the easier the job was to do, and the easier it was to do, the faster it got done.

If you get an invalid gamestate you can email all the relevent data to support, including your LastGame.DGReplay file so they can hopefully see the state of the game before the desync occurred.

November 26, 2009 10:35:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My God, ZehDon you are really annoying!

I have see you post in other threads, saying that the Invalid error happens only when people have connection issues or a computer problem.

Now you are acting like you "know" it is an exploit, by people who dont want to get a loss. You just dont want to admit that your argument:

because I've never seen this. Ever. Not once since release day.
is total BS, since you dont play ranked games online, and like abuggeredhedgie said:
The fact that none of your trusted 20 friends are hackers impresses no one and means that your expierence is purely anecdotal and has no actual similarity with the actual condition of Demigod. I would assume you would be able to realize that you trust the 20 people of your VPN enough they wouldn't be cheating (plus, as the game isn't recorded in the first place, there is no point in desync'ing either) that they wouldn't do it and you wouldn't try to be all 'lol, doesn't happen to me!'

So yeah you play with some nice people who are not jerks, and they dont try to exploit/hack the game.

What does that have anything to do with the rest of us?

Also, since you do know that it is jerks who cause this error in order to avoid a loss (finally you have figured it out), and you are so smart knowing exactly how it happens, why dont you try to help SD/GPG to find a way to avoid these exploits?

I am not trying to look smart, dumb, annoying or whatever.

I am simply trying to say that me and other people who have spent a LOT of hours playing, and have a lot of games online, have seen more Sh!t in this game than most people. I am not saying just me, but many people who have played over 700-800 games total, since the infamous Invalid gamestate error first appeared.

 

November 26, 2009 11:35:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting morpheas768,
Now you are acting like you "know" it is an exploit, by people who dont want to get a loss. You just dont want to admit that your argument ... is total BS, since you dont play ranked games online...

I wasn't aware I was making an argument, I was stating facts: the Invalid Gamestate error occurs when the game becomes desynced - this means that one of the people playing reported a different set of events than everyone else. This occurs when a connection falls too far behind everyone elses, when data becomes corrupted travelling between players and when someone invokes the known exploit. How does my not playing in Public games effect the validity of these facts?
 
Quoting morpheas768,
So yeah you play with some nice people who are not jerks, and they dont try to exploit/hack the game... what does that have anything to do with the rest of us?

It has to do with the OP inferring that the cause of the desync was Demigod's fault, when I can quite honestly attest to the opposite. Demigod's netcode is rock solid, data corruption of any kind happens in so few cases as to be considered an abnormality rather than the norm, thus my playing with people not invoking the exploit stands as evidence that the players in the game have either bad connections and computers that do not perform to required level, or someone in the game invoked the exploit. As I play across a VPN - Virtual Private Network, also can be considered a WAN - I connect to everyone else via the Internet, not through Local Area Networks. If Demigod's network code caused the desync issues, I'd see them as the data has to travel identically - across the internet - in both cases.

Quoting morpheas768,
Also, since you do know that it is jerks who cause this error in order to avoid a loss (finally you have figured it out), and you are so smart knowing exactly how it happens, why dont you try to help SD/GPG to find a way to avoid these exploits?

Actually, I've been using my own example a VPN as evidence that the Desync issue is caused by third party interference rather than Demigod itself since the issue first arose; as I said, I've literally never seen it. Not once. Ever. Considering the netcode is the same regardless of which 'mode' you play, the issue isn't something as simple as improving the netcode: it's already rock solid.

What you're asking is for GPG or Stardock to find a way to prevent people from messing with the LUA files while the game is active, despite the fact that one of the benefits of the engine in use is it's real time file use - it speeds up change development immensley - and thus it would require a partial engine re-write. Do you have any suggestions? I can't think of any.

Quoting morpheas768,
I am simply trying to say that me and other people who have spent a LOT of hours playing, and have a lot of games online, have seen more Sh!t in this game than most people. I am not saying just me, but many people who have played over 700-800 games total, since the infamous Invalid gamestate error first appeared.

What you're saying is people experience an error frequently when playing with random players. What I am saying is that I have never experienced this issue when not playing with random players. The constant, or lack there of, and logical source of the issue: random players. This doesn't mean everyone uses the exploit - it means that either data corruption occurs, someone's PC or internet connection falls too far behind, or the exploit was used. I can rule out data corruption through logical deduction - leaving only shit connections and computers or assholes as the cause of the issue.

I've never once posted and said "HAHAHA FUCK YOU I DON'T GET THIS PROBLEM - SUCK IT". I've posted in numerous threads stating the fact that this issue isn't caused by Demigod; it's caused by random players and offered my own example as evidence to since. I've been saying this since a kind fellow PM-ed me the specifics of how to reproduce the exploit, which was shortly after it became an issue. I usually post this in threads such as these "ZOMG DEMIGOD SUCSK, ACCOUNT CANCELLED!11!!!".

How do you stop people from invoking the exploit when the engine was designed to allow it? Come up with a solution and email it to [email protected]. I'll be eagerly awaiting your solution.

November 27, 2009 12:15:01 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

What you're saying is people experience an error frequently when playing with random players.

First of all, stop saying things that i never said. Frequently = more than 50%. What i said is that i get the annoying error about 5-8% of my games. That is not frequently, that is rarely.

Secondly, Do we both agree that the error is caused by assh*les 90% of the times it happens, that dont want to get a loss?

Also, since you clearly know more techinical stuff than me about connections, how could I know a solution to this? I thought you did know something, but unfortunately you dont.

Third, I agree with most of the things you said, blah blah blah, but clearly you are avoiding my arguements about you not playing ranked games and thus, not having to deal with random jerks who exploit the game.

Since you are not playing with random players in ranked games how could you ever get the Invalid Error? Nobody from the 20 people you are playing with are jerks who are trying to desync the game, apparently. I am gonna say it again:

Invalid Error = 90% of the times an exploit/hack.

4th, if you want to make arguements about what i said, answer properly. Like when i said that what does playing over VPN have to do with a person playing a random PUG game that it is ranked. Or about everybody else who is playing Demigod for that matter. Btw, you didnt have to explain what VPN is, i think i have "heard about it" before.

Last but not least, I understand that the NetCode of Demigod is solid on that matter, and i remember saying in one of my posts a long time ago, that the Netcode is crap, which is not the case, i was wrong about that.

Is that what you are defending so much in every post you make? the game's NetCode? how Solid it is? I dont understand why you are fighting and defending it so much since people complain a LOT more about other problems/bugs, but this.

We can keep this up all day, but i am too tired to do it. Just state your facts, (you already did) tell us your opinion, and lets leave this post get buried like all those old demigod-has-issues posts before it.

Cheers,

 

November 27, 2009 12:17:38 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Double post sorry,

Forums Go Boom!

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