Demons and Minotaurs : A Testimonial

By Sevenix on November 21, 2009 6:22:23 PM from

Sevenix

Join Date 04/2008

+16

Introduction
So I've been playing some games now with the new demigods, and I got to say they are great. The feeling you get of executing a warp area with Demon is awesome, And the fact that you can restore your allies mana with Oculus Brain Storm is great. There are however a few bugs around and I do have a few thoughts about the demigods overall.

Bugs
-The two new demigods have no on death gameplay effect, such as rook deals 100 dmg when he crumbles etc.

-Oculus Blastoff does Not throw smaller units off the map(as stated it should in the tooltip), not reinforcement grunts anyway which is the smallest units I can think of.

-Demon Assassin seems to have a problem with his warp abilities at times, preventing him from responding to commands for a second or two after executed.

-Oculus animation seems to bug when he uses a teleportation scroll, he starts jumping up and down really fast.

-Demons Warp Area does not target air (Angels)

Thoughts
-Demon Assassin is a dead end, if not impossible to play, then at least damn hard.
You need mana to use his abilities, and lots of it.
You need Weapon damage to deal any kind of decent damage in melee
You need HP in order to not die instantly, he got no escape mechanism so all he can do is make a decent run for it.
You need slow/speed or you wont be able to chase at all, you can warp strike but once done the enemy runs ahead again.
All this means that if you fail to go heavy on any of these points, demon assassin quite obviously fails in any given situation. And as you only got 5 slots for items. As such I believe some of these points need to be included into hit talentree more.

-Demon Assassin appears in a gold texture in both his unit icon and the select hero screen/ animated hero icon ingame, A bit weird since he never has those colors otherwise, a problem with lightning perhaps?

-Oculus Brain storm is a great concept, but it seriously Screams! for an allied mana bar. Chirmaya got it all right with https://forums.demigodthegame.com/369526 , Please implement it/something similar.

-Shadow Swap: Great ability, Seems quite well balanced as well, didn't get to try it at rank III though, 25 yards almost sounds too good.

Suggestions
-Give Warp Strike a secondary effect(for example) giving 10%/20%/30%/40% increased attackspeed/movement to the Demon for 3 seconds. This allows him to perform his "fast in, fast out" attacks much better.

-Warp Area is really cool, but it turns out its randomness makes it quite useless against other demigods. It does get much better though at lv10 when it hits 8 times which means you have a decent chance to hit any demigod that is in the area. My suggestion though would be to increase the amount of his on the rank I from 4 to 8, since the damage at this rank is just 250 the difference isnt that extreme and it lowers the big jump you get from rank I and II as

Rank 1: 250*4=1000 damage
Rank 1 suggestion: 250*8=2000 damage
Rank 2: 500*8=4000 damage

Notice that this change would change the increase in strength of the skill from rank I --> II to 2x , instead of currently huge 4x.

Remember that since that each unit only can get hit once, its a max of 250 dmg to 8 units in the area, Compare to Oculus blastoff which deals 200 dmg to ALL units in an area already at lv1. at lv7 blast off deals 500 dmg to ALL units, its by then already better then Demons warp area will ever be!

-Warp area gets confusing, once executed it is very hard to get any idea where your demigod actually is, I would suggest that the warp area is ended with the Demon warping back to the position he started at, that way to can just keep your focus at that position and you know exactly where your demigod is.

-Combine Demons Passive Dodge talent with the Passive movementspeed talent into a new "Demons Quickness", Both talent on their own are quite crap, combine them into one instead adding movementspeed and dodge. Perhaps lower the bonuses to compensate, even though I dont think that would be needed.
To Compensate for the lost tree , create a new one, I get a feeling something like Rooks "Gods Strength" would be very welcome for this demigod. increasing his main weapon damage at lv 3, 7, and 10 by 25 each, adding up to a bonus of 75 damage at rank III.

This was actually really useful since I don't have DA currently (along with damn-near everybody else) and it gives me an idea as to how he is and how he can be approved and such. for you

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Been playing with him too.

He does have an exhorbant mana cost, which really limits his effectiveness compared to UB. However, he has incredible single-target burst so that's a nice thing.

DA does have an escape mechanism: you can use Warp Strike on an enemy creep. Though this isn't the most effective use of this ability, it does have it's place. Alternatively, Warp Area does give you 8 seconds of invulnerability. Sure, you'll still die but at least it'll take 8 seconds

The low damage output of DA is fine: I think it's intentional and I didn't notice a huge issue with it.

For DA's movement + passive I think you could always give it a +5 mps bonus, to make it:

- Compete with Sedna's Inner Grace

- Help with early-game mana issues

- Not suck in general (+15 mps (this gets to be +22 if you get Plenor) and +15 movement speed is pretty nice for three skill points, and allows you to spam everything else)

I think that the DA's dodge bonus passive could have a movement speed proc when using Warp Strike (+2/+2 Attack Speed/Movement Speed after using Warp for 10 seconds / 5/5 / 8/8 )

So, at level 15 you could be pulling movement speeds of the order of +43% on top of a high dodge. It's nice synergy and I like it. Esp since it's currently hard to tell how effective his dodge passive is.

I do think that Warp Area is pretty much useless except maybe to use immediately after Shadow Swap so you can't get ganked horrifically. Which is a pretty damn good use, you must admit

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Introduction
So I've been playing some games now with the new demigods, and I got to say they are great. The feeling you get of executing a warp area with Demon is awesome, And the fact that you can restore your allies mana with Oculus Brain Storm is great. There are however a few bugs around and I do have a few thoughts about the demigods overall.

Bugs
-The two new demigods have no on death gameplay effect, such as rook deals 100 dmg when he crumbles etc.

Another post has their effects listed. They are in there though.

-Demon Assassin seems to have a problem with his warp abilities at times, preventing him from responding to commands for a second or two after executed.

I too noticed this. Click multiple times every time you land. I also had 1 game where his warp strike, the animations were ending early ( at the level for 3.2, he finished the warps in like 1 second ), and would just stand there the rest of the time...and was not invincible during the inactive time. Might have been a glitch that 1 game though.

Thoughts
-Demon Assassin is a dead end, if not impossible to play, then at least damn hard.
You need mana to use his abilities, and lots of it.
You need Weapon damage to deal any kind of decent damage in melee
You need HP in order to not die instantly, he got no escape mechanism so all he can do is make a decent run for it.
You need slow/speed or you wont be able to chase at all, you can warp strike but once done the enemy runs ahead again.
All this means that if you fail to go heavy on any of these points, demon assassin quite obviously fails in any given situation. And as you only got 5 slots for items. As such I believe some of these points need to be included into hit talentree more.

I do and don't agree here. He is pretty hard earlier on, but later starts to kind of run the show. ( when not stunned. CC seems to be his bane. ) A Hungarlings makes a world of diff for him, and so can an all fathers if you get that far. My latest build attempt was a passive auto-attack ( to really use his crit line ). I had duelists, slayers and ashkanador for the crits and damage, as well as lifetap. Then, from the artifact I had All Fathers Ring and Girdle of giants ( to make all attacks AoE ). Add in bracelet of rage, unmaker, and cloak of elfkind for usables. ( I'm testing builds, so running high gold atm. Will work out better equip paths later ). I was hitting for a minimum of 1k, and saw over 6k several times. I also have over 9k life.

Enough with gear, cause I'm sure theres better set ups than that...for skills, for level 20, I went with all of Warp Strike, Attributes, Precision, and Shadow Swap. The last 2 I put to the run speed.

Strategy wise, I use a hit and run. Try standing back behind your own lines, and watch for an opening, rather than charging straight in. If you see someone turn to run out, THATS when you swap. Someone at half life, does not want to find themselves behind enemy lines. Now warp in on them. This way, the fight is where you are already safe. If it isn't going well, you can just walk away, no escape needed.

-Shadow Swap: Great ability, Seems quite well balanced as well, didn't get to try it at rank III though, 25 yards almost sounds too good.

I've tried, and it is definately powerful. In crucible, if the target is at the wrong spot, you can warp them across the gaps, into serious trouble. Warp Strike has the same range at max, which also allows you to warp into these places.

A possible bug I found seems very interesting. If you start casting swap with someone just before they teleport, it will continue casting...and warping you to wherever they teleported. On Crucible, this once put me inside their base, and them inside my defenses. I capped their flag, and did some damage before they got in to take me out.

I'm going to hold off on any changes until I've tested stuff out more, but for the most part I agree ATT.

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Bugs
-The two new demigods have no on death gameplay effect, such as rook deals 100 dmg when he crumbles etc.

Yes they do. They were both mentioned in another thread. DA gives nearby allies a move speed increase and Occulus leaves an LOS marker for a short time.

-Oculus Blastoff does Not throw smaller units off the map(as stated it should in the tooltip), not reinforcement grunts anyway which is the smallest units I can think of.

This is only supposed to apply to Level 4 of Blast Off (last I knew). The tooltip is wrong.

-Warp area gets confusing, once executed it is very hard to get any idea where your demigod actually is, I would suggest that the warp area is ended with the Demon warping back to the position he started at, that way to can just keep your focus at that position and you know exactly where your demigod is.

This is kind of funny actually, because I suggested the same thing.

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Uhm...so how exactly are you playing the new Demigods? They are greyed out.

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@ Sorian

why is DA "orange" coloured in the hero select sreen and animated hero icon ?

its an ugly colour, looks like DA took a bath in orange-juice

ingame, DA's "silver-grey" style looks much much better !!!

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Quoting xclavex,

reply 5

Uhm...so how exactly are you playing the new Demigods? They are greyed out.

https://forums.demigodthegame.com/369721 here ya go:)

Quoting DemiCom,

reply 6

@ Sorian

why is DA "orange" coloured in the hero select sreen and animated hero icon ?

its an ugly colour, looks like DA took a bath in orange-juice

ingame, DA's "silver-grey" style looks much much better !!!

He had that picture taken back in the 60s...hes not very proud of it either, but just hasn't had time to get a new picture, what with all the assassinating hes needed for atm:)

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I modded DA into my game (see mod sub forum) and played 2-3 games with him. First game took blood favor item thinking he needed health. Ran into a mana brick wall and had to make many round trips. Next game i took the assasin's first favor item (serpant blade) and it made a world of difference.

With that i really got into the hunting mode and used my teleport scrolls whenever anything went for a flag on my side of the map. Usaully tele to a tower or to a middle flag and give them no way to retreat. After the fight i would go back and wait for a creep wave then use the serpant blade plus warp strike and I was back in business mana wise.

From my post on the mod forum:

Not sure if we should talk about demon assassin here or in the strategy forum, but man is he something else. Very fun to play and very easy to get kills with.

The evade + speed line leading to a proc ultimate is a waste in my opinion. Evade alone later in the game is good. Abilities as with most builds are not really a priority. The rest of the tree is very good. With humans I think warp swap would be higher on the priority list.

He uses mana crazy fast but with blade of the serpant (first assassin favor item) he can stay out there a long time. With that favor item stack items on health regen or damage. Without that item i found stacking mana regen was not near enough to keep him going, so either need a lot of potions or another plan.

I am used to generals, so found pushing towers very hard, but you can use his tail attack on them if needed. Later with maxed crit he can take them down easy enough.

I found early game the crit line (precision 4), tail attack (spine attack 4), and warp attack (warp strike 5) are very effective.

I go spine -> precision and work warp strike in as a low priority mainly use to get spine back in range. With its ultimate warp strike becomes more mana efficient and killer as well.

Mid game add in Warp area which can get back a ton of mana with blade of the serpant activated. Warp area only needs 2 skill points to max as the ultimate only adds knocking small units around. Thats a ton of damage with 15 points.

I spend the remaining on evade to 3. I rarely see 20, but mess around with shadow swap at that point

I would expect to see warp strike timer lengthened. You can open an engagement: spine (1150) -> wap strike (700 or 75% chance of 1400) -> chase a little -> warp strike (same dmg) -> spine (same dmg) = usually dead target. Go hit a creep wave up with warp area (500x8) + blade of the serpant and hunt your next target.

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Quoting zechio,

reply 7

Quoting xclavex, reply 5Uhm...so how exactly are you playing the new Demigods? They are greyed out.
https://forums.demigodthegame.com/369721 here ya go:)

Great, I have the file now but have no idea where to put it. Irritatingly, there is not one thread in the modding section that I can find that tells you where to put files to mod (you'd think something like that would be a sticky).

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Put the folder in the mods folder. so, something like: C:/program files/demigod/mods/Random_EQ_New ( depending on where you installed demigod of course. )

Now, once you load up the game, it should show in the mod manager. Just enable it, and when you get in game select random assassin to play DA, or random general to play occ.

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Find your demigod install folder and extract the mod to:

Demigod\bindata\mods\

Create mods if it doesn't exist, but should already exist. You should end up with a 'Random_EQ_New' folder in your mods folder. Enable it in the mod manager in game and select the random demigod you want.

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Demigod is a game made for tanking, and DA isn't a tank. That's the main problem. Monks and healing are too effective against him. I'm not sure how to balance it. Sedna eats him for lunch, and there's nothing he can do about it.

Warp Strike is awesome, especially at level 15.

Shadow Swap isn't horribly imbalanced. It works well.

I concur that the speed movement and dodge should be combined into one without a reduction.

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Quoting zechio,

reply 10

Put the folder in the mods folder. so, something like: C:/program files/demigod/mods/Random_EQ_New ( depending on where you installed demigod of course. )

Now, once you load up the game, it should show in the mod manager. Just enable it, and when you get in game select random assassin to play DA, or random general to play occ.

Hmm...I tried that and found the item in the mod section in game, enabled it, but when I chose random assassin or general it just gave me one of the standard characters, not the new ones.

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You need to remove it from the zip file first.

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Quoting Epiphenomenon,

reply 14

You need to remove it from the zip file first.

I know that as it is what I did. I'll give it another whirl and see what happens.

EDIT: Ok, now it works, thanks.

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A few more thoughs that came up today

Forceful Blows: The Ultimate rank of warp area adds a throw-away effect to smaller units, Smaller units I belive are reinforcement archers and grunts. So lets think about this.

Rank 1 Warp area deals 250 dmg, hurts grunts and kills archers.
Rank 2 Warp area deals 500 dmg, kills grunts and kills archers
Rank 3 "Forceful Blows", Instant kills grunts and archers.

So.. looks like forceful blows is a giant waste of a skillpoint, unless you enjoy the effect of sending units flying a lot!

Perhaps after a few upgrades of reinforcement health, it may actually be that grunts gain something like 510 hp which means they would survive the 500dmg, and the forceful blow would actually have helped you.

Helped you to deal 10 more dmg.

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Quoting Sevenix,

reply 16

A few more thoughs that came up today

Forceful Blows: The Ultimate rank of warp area adds a throw-away effect to smaller units, Smaller units I belive are reinforcement archers and grunts. So lets think about this.

Rank 1 Warp area deals 250 dmg, hurts grunts and kills archers.
Rank 2 Warp area deals 500 dmg, kills grunts and kills archers
Rank 3 "Forceful Blows", Instant kills grunts and archers.
So.. looks like forceful blows is a giant waste of a skillpoint, unless you enjoy the effect of sending units flying a lot!

Perhaps after a few upgrades of reinforcement health, it may actually be that grunts gain something like 510 hp which means they would survive the 500dmg, and the forceful blow would actually have helped you.

Helped you to deal 10 more dmg.

Thank goodness I wasnt the only one who noticed this. The last rank of Warp Area needs changed because, bluntly, it sucks

Maybe making it 800 damage with a maximum of 12 targets?

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Demons and Minotaurs : A Testimonial

Sevenix