How Qot should be...

By gkrit on October 25, 2009 4:01:36 AM from

Theres been plenty of these posts but i just cant help myself.

As it is now...

Bud form
- increased armor
- increased health regen
- increased mana regen
- hit multiple targets with auto attacks

Open form
- nothing

>> This in itself encourages the user to go bud form. Free buffs! who wouldnt?
But i dont understand why bud form gets all the benefits. If im in open form, im kind of being pressured to go bud again for the benfits.

How it should be...

Bud form
- grants vampiric effect on auto attacks
- increased health regen
- increased mana regen

>> While playing more reserved to regen, bud form would be more beneficial to me at that point in time.

Open form
- increased armor
- increased attack (20% increase)
- hit multiple targets with auto attacks

>> If it were like this, ill know that itll be worth my while to switch to offense since i know ill be slightly more durable and able to pressure an opponent.

Compost Idea (similar functionality to what it is now but grants a diff effect)
Depending on how many nearby corpses, your attack dmg and attack speed increase by X% for X secs.

>> This will now have nice synergy with Spike wave and Ground spikes. Open form looks much more fun now.

Uproot Idea
As it is now PLUS, target tower deals 20%/30%/40%/50% less dmg and stops tower health regen while uproot is active.
Can be used on an allied structure, healing it for 400/800/1200/1600 health over 10 secs.

>> Its mana cost would now be worth it. And now it will be able to compete with spit in regards to taking down towers.

Entourage Idea
As it is now PLUS, when a shambler dies you recieve 15% (across all lvls) of its max health in mana.

>> Shamblers are useless other than the fact you can heal from them with mulch. So now if a shambler dies before ur able to mulch one you'll still get a minor mana benefit, making qot more mana sufficient (coz her skills are very costly atm). This will also allow her to shuffle through minions with more ease.

+32 Karma | 47 Replies

Bud form
- increased armor !

Open form
- increased armor !

i'm pretty sure its an unintentional mistake.

Compost Idea (similar functionality to what it is now but grants a diff effect)
Depending on how many nearby corpses, your movement speed and attack speed increases by X% for X secs.

hey, it was my idea! But also increased damage of normal attack with it.

Uproot = good idea, but still it could be something more

yeh .. i did make a mistake but i just thought of a 3rd effect for bud form which ill post.

as for uproot, i didnt wanna do much more since reducing the amount of dmg it deals would be quite useful when team mate are there to help. im thinking the violent siege effect would be a nice throughout all the levels of uproot but that would require a new skill function for the lvl 15 slot.

uproot is still useless I fear. If I can take a tower down in 8 secs, all the buffs in the world will not make me choose uproot.

I actually like closed form having so much buffs; open has better skills, although I'd like a small damage increase.

of course open has better skills but unfortunately as squishy as she is, your forced to go bak to bud form to defend yourself which usually leads to having to flee the scene coz ur out of mana.

Thats the synergy between open and closed.

what is?

Quoting gkrit,

reply 4

of course open has better skills but unfortunately as squishy as she is, your forced to go bak to bud form to defend yourself which usually leads to having to flee the scene coz ur out of mana.

The synergy is you have to go back into bud form. She's not torchbearer. There isn't 2 pure builds and a hybrid. There are several variations but it requires you to use both forms. If you spend the majority of your time as closed that right because even me as a QoT player I find that closed is more useful in multiplayer games. Now in 1 on 1 i find myself buffing before battle in closed and running into battle in open popping my burst and switching to closed to rebuff and reburst. It requires both builds. I play under the alias XaviorIronFist stupid stardock wouldn't allow my username longer than XaviorsFist.

how about change uproot to be able to cast it on a friendly tower to heal it?

Quoting XaviorsFist,

reply 7

Quoting gkrit, reply 4of course open has better skills but unfortunately as squishy as she is, your forced to go bak to bud form to defend yourself which usually leads to having to flee the scene coz ur out of mana.

The synergy is you have to go back into bud form. She's not torchbearer. There isn't 2 pure builds and a hybrid. There are several variations but it requires you to use both forms. If you spend the majority of your time as closed that right because even me as a QoT player I find that closed is more useful in multiplayer games. Now in 1 on 1 i find myself buffing before battle in closed and running into battle in open popping my burst and switching to closed to rebuff and reburst. It requires both builds. I play under the alias XaviorIronFist stupid stardock wouldn't allow my username longer than XaviorsFist.

are you saying ive created a synergy between both forms in my suggestion?

even if i have which i think i have, its all for the best anyway. but what im trying to encourage here is that offensive form needs its perks which it doesnt have right now. thats y i have suggested passive buffs in open form and some tweaks to her offensive skills. Shes just no threat to an opponent in her offensive form.

The transition time between open and closed forms is way too long and ur skills are delayed by 2-3 seconds. If you're trying to be both offensive and support qot chances are ull just miss out on a brambles on a team mate reulting in their death just because the transition took too long. Sedna rapes qot in the hybrid-use department as she can heal then pounce instantly afterwards and its a nice strong burst of dmg also.

before i couldnt do the update and i started playing qot...i gotta say i think shes pritty good if u play her the right way, just like any demigod pick ur build player ur strat. u start to loose when u start playing the opponents game and not ur own.

Quoting MixMagic,

reply 10

Read this, she was my first character ever used, my favorite still, and I still go back to her.

Anyways we all know less vines would be nice.

I never noticed QoT hitting multiple enemies in bud

Quoting synnworld,

reply 11

I never noticed QoT hitting multiple enemies in bud

open your eyes...

anyway. @op i would not underestimate shambler as they add quite an amount of dmg and they continue even if you retreat. they give you your wanted 20% dmg increase but in any stance.

wow ... i cant believe so many ppl support her.

ive vsed many qots and each qot ive vsed (me being diff demis each time), im able to push them bak with ease, without them having much of any effect on me watsoever. and its due to all the reasons ive stated in all my above posts.

TBH, she is fun to use but she cant stand on her own 2 feet in any heated situation. Just try it in any game with ppl that have a win % of 50 and above.

There is no "you have to play it the right way" coz any experienced player in this game has a fair chance at winning. If you argue there is a certain way you have to play her, then why are we limited to that certain play style?

but PLZ CONSIDER MY SUGGESTION IN MY OP. is there anything there you disagree with?

I half the suggestions.

Personally with spike wave there I think Uproot should either

1. Cause a tower to stop working and take damage for 10 seconds

2. Be able to heal your own towers (someone elses suggestion not mine, cant remember whos)

3. Not exist! Replace it with something more useful

I also think Compost should be a passive ability that can call on using extra corpses and I think that the Shamblers should have their range increased, their health and armoured buffed and have their mana cost reduced.

But those are only ideas

gkrit, i agree with you except for the Entourage Idea.

So if a shambler has 1000 hp and it dies you get 300 mana what the hell? so if all 4 shamblers die then 1200 mana. that is more than a free summon shambler spell. maybe if a shambler dies a temporary boost in damage in your qot would be nice (lets say 5% more damage for 10 seconds).

Quoting gkrit,

reply 9

are you saying ive created a synergy between both forms in my suggestion?

even if i have which i think i have, its all for the best anyway. but what im trying to encourage here is that offensive form needs its perks which it doesnt have right now. thats y i have suggested passive buffs in open form and some tweaks to her offensive skills. Shes just no threat to an opponent in her offensive form.

The transition time between open and closed forms is way too long and ur skills are delayed by 2-3 seconds. If you're trying to be both offensive and support qot chances are ull just miss out on a brambles on a team mate reulting in their death just because the transition took too long. Sedna rapes qot in the hybrid-use department as she can heal then pounce instantly afterwards and its a nice strong burst of dmg also.

I'm saying thats how it is now. With your way bud form would be more favorable just because the vampiric effect. No way would it change my decision while in battle to be in open form. Plus your idea contradicts what you want. Taking that AoE form closed makes it so now in battle you'll be forced into open just to fight and then be forced back to closed to regenerate health. This closes all other builds. Why give the 2nd highest AoE character more AoE in her AoE mode. It makes no sense to me. Now open you get to kill everything around you and then damage one opponnent with your area attack? And unless this armor bonus doubles your armor then it won't make a differance against this health stacking enviornment. Give her higher base health if you want her to last against other demigods in open. WHICH ISN'T what the designers intended.

Quoting _Golgoth_,

reply 14

I half the suggestions.

Personally with spike wave there I think Uproot should either

1. Cause a tower to stop working and take damage for 10 seconds

2. Be able to heal your own towers (someone elses suggestion not mine, cant remember whos)

3. Not exist! Replace it with something more useful

I also think Compost should be a passive ability that can call on using extra corpses and I think that the Shamblers should have their range increased, their health and armoured buffed and have their mana cost reduced.

But those are only ideas

This is all thats needed to fix QoT. Sorry for the double post. This is all thats needed. Shambler buff make spike wave a little better and either replace uproot or make it more powerful than it is and make is scale better to endgame.

How Qot should be...

naked

xavior ... so you saying even with wat ive suggested ull still stay bud but then you say why give offensive mode more area dmg, suggesting that would be OP. in one respect i guess ive achieved what i planned for then, which is to make her offensive side more appealling if the bud side outshines the offensive side in all aspects.

im not sure you understand where im comin from or ever understand for that matter. id really like to vs you at some point so we can prove each other wrong.

i think it is right that she does aoe aa in closed form, because it is more logical (and was intended that way) cause she 'cant see' in that form (she is in bud = blind), just 'randomly hit targets' or to say better: she is imprecise with hers attacks therefore hits multiple targets, BUT also (in that form, because of things just mentioned) she SHOULD dish out smaller damage with normal attacks than in open form! So, increase aa(=normal) damage in open form but left without aoe effect, and in closed form (maybe better!) aoe effect, but (little) smaller damage.

because it is more logical (and was intended that way) cause she 'cant see' in that form (she is in bud = blind)

logic like this is irrelevant in games like this (unless ur being sarcastic). balancing is not based on realism.

having aoe aa in closed form just promotes closed bud even more which is what im trying to change. Bud form is defensive so why is she awarded with a powerful aa in closed form. open form is meant for offense and would make more sense that she'd be able to dish out more dmg while open.

u can say it was "intended to be that way" all you like but that applies for everything. re-adjustment occurs after monitoring the effect of the skill and judging whether it needs a boost coz its UP, same goes if its OP. and based on my observation and experience using the character i have come to a conclusion that she is UP.

TBH, Qot would be used more if she had SOLID multiple purposes. She does alrdy but its just not efficient. Unlike tb, you can either be full ice, or full fire, or even a hybrid build and if hybrid build is used and built correctly it will work well in any circumstance.

edit: qot is basicaly fine but scales bad past mid/late mid game

i find qot qoute good. she gets in troulbe at late mid-game or later as she does not scale good. one of her main problems is that her active dmg abilities consume far too much mana and later on she cannot use them as she cannot not afford the time to switch between stances.

i would give her a higher amount of basic armor, not from the start on, but a better increase with each level. and additionally a slightly better hps (and or hp) increase with levels. her mana costs of her active damaging abilites should be reduced a bit for higher ranks and the cd for switching stances should be reduced.

the highest rank shield (and maybe the previous one) should absorb a bit more dmg without increased mana, but not much more.

i would to one of here talents something similar to sednas priests buff, meaning that qots priests should gain the abilitity to heal abit better. not as much as sednas priests but some improvement would be fine.

i think this would be enough to make her on par with the most other demigods.

p.s. there is still some modifications left lor ike the odd level 15 money skill.

p.p.s: i again contradict the ops oppinion about shablers as they are one of her most important abilities. if you think she lacks dmg, take shambler and the idol minions. with her possiblitiy to deal dmg at range she gets quite dangerous. you dont play reg in melee, why you want qot to melee ub and others? she is a ranged dd with range dmg dealing minions. play her supporting your team like a sedna, but keep her out of melee range as she is not so tough like sedna that must be in melee to contribute to dmg.

hm, everything you said now - you said true (except maybe: 'logic like this is irrelevant in games like this' - there always must be some kind of logic (and if i may add as well that they were probably thinking: giving Qot aoe aa in 'open' would be unbalanced, because in open mode she already have (or at least should be having!) devastating (aoe) abilities/skills, but not in closed*; so should be buffed a little with aoe in closed but not in open; just like xavior was trying to point out (if i got him correct)), and i so understand you and Qot should be buffed, but i think that it doesnt necesserily need to be by giving her aoe in open instead of closed)

I would also like that she is not used mostly in closed, but again i wouldnt change the aoe in closed. Therefore i say (& said) - increase dmg in open (so that its 'visible' increase) or do it by increasing att speed(!) while in open, but in closed she should have lesser dmg (but with aoe of course).

*i just thought of another (lesser) reason why aoe in closed; because closed should keep her alive, so with aoe it will be easier for her to clear away creeps, and even minions; & because you cant expect her to kill dg's in closed anyway, generaly speaking (> lets not talk about mulch now /or high dps aa late game), but to keep her alive.

(also: /Quote/:'balancing is not based on realism' - True, but it tries to be within its(of realism) borders)

and off the main topic (about tb):

or full fire, or even a hybrid build and if hybrid build is used and built correctly it will work well in any circumstance.

but that requires good teammates and is much harder to pull off, so you still see pros mostly ice build.
I personaly think that tb should be buffed in fire mode.

P.S. - was responding to gkrit

at CelMare

you also gave good point & suggestions, except i dont agree that you must rely on shamblers and idols just to keep up with others dg's base dps (compare oak with minions -he's killing! even without penitence, same for erebus + minions). I think she should also be good dps dealer with her minions even without using ground spikes.

But, i must say i havent play much games with her to know how good dps dealer she is with her minions, but i would bet to say weaker than oak or ereb.

for Entourage - maybe it would be good idea to give +1 gold with each point of skill !!? So max +4 or +3 (if tribute totally canceled) but that would not be the only feature it has. (i just have checked the meaning of that spell )

Compost should give BOTH her and her minions bonus damage and health(regeneration?!) & mov & att sp, but all in small numbers.

...oh, and extra mana regen. would be a nice buff for compost too!

... and bigger armor buff in closed form (+10% is not much)

edit: it just got to my head that even with the buffs celmare suggested it wouldnt help her that much late game. imo. (but sure, bring it on!)

Bobek_XY: i never said qot should be that way that she only can du acceptable damage by relying on their minions. i said that this is actually the best way to play her. of course it would be nice if she would have alternetive ways to play her while maintaing her usefullness.

but qot is not the only DG that only has one best playstyle. take sedna for instance. basically there is only one way to play her right: focus on heal and healing wind - secondly pounce. yetis? lol. although they get quite tough later they are still nothing compaired to what you lose spending skill points into yetis.

the buffs i suggested are tweakable. you can tweak how they increase on alter levels, this includes even her AA Damage. Thus you can repair her main problem: her scaling at later levels. what i wanted to point out is that she is not broken by design! it is more or less only her scaling. of course there are some design flaws like many other demigods have too.

p.s. regarding your oak-qot compairision: don't forgett that qot is ranged. if you improve her scaling of defensive and offensive attributes she will get on par. don't underestimate her support-features! her minons are far more usefull themselfs like the oak minions - oak minions basically only buff his dmg. qots best playstyle is something in between erebus minon build and sedna healing supporting build, with a split of oak mixed in.

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How Qot should be...

How Qot should be...