Skills That Need Buffs

Beastial Wrath - An iffy one. Is it useless or not? Needs discussion.

its terrible

Ok nice ppoints but uhhh...

a Sedna without Yeti's is stronger than one without.

And i wouldnt say Rook's transfer skill is lame.

If used correctly you can stay on the field like forever

also when you have the time ( not getting an interrupt ) you just tear down towers with it.

my 2 cents.

Beastial Wrath is a weird one. If you ever played long enough to get decked out with artifacts then clearly it's amazing, but I really can't see myself skipping spit or ooze to get there and still have room in my build for it.

That being said I suppose you could just take only one rank of claws and grasp and have room to max it out at 20 along with ooze, putrid flows, and acclimation. Come to think of it that's probably what I'll start doing after having been stuck in an hour long exile match. If you buff it to be so useful in the early and mid game that it's a contender for spit or ooze then it's going to be balls-out insane late game and probably unfair. 65% weapon damage really is pretty crazy.

a Sedna without Yeti's is stronger than one without.

I think you meant with on the first one. Anyway it's not true, as you would have heal, healing wind, pounce, inspiring presence, or whatever in its place. The only way you're better off with yetis is if you view morale as the alternative.

And i wouldnt say Rook's transfer skill is lame.

It really, really is. The only time it's a really good idea to take it is when you have the other team sorely overmatched or when you're being whittled down with something like snipe. As a combat heal it's really just awful.

Fixed the Sedna line. I meant Yeti's suck basically

Beastial Wrath is a weird one. If you ever played long enough to get decked out with artifacts then clearly it's amazing, but I really can't see myself skipping spit or ooze to get there and still have room in my build for it.

That being said I suppose you could just take only one rank of claws and grasp and have room to max it out at 20 along with ooze, putrid flows, and acclimation. Come to think of it that's probably what I'll start doing after having been stuck in an hour long exile match. If you buff it to be so useful in the early and mid game that it's a contender for spit or ooze then it's going to be balls-out insane late game and probably unfair. 65% weapon damage really is pretty crazy.

thats true you can actually get about a 2-5k dps going but you need slayers ashkandor and mage slayer which is only posstible one crucible on other maps the other team probably already ahas giants and your screwd.

Well here's my basic build:

Spit
Ooze
Save
Spit+Oooze
Foul Grasp
Save
Spit+Ooze
Diseased Claws
Save
Spit+Oooze
Inner Beast
Inner Beast
Inner Beast
Save
Putrid Flows+Acclimation

So by the time I'm ready to start choosing stats, max diseased claws, or whatever, I have a pretty good idea of whether or not we're going to go into overtime with artifacts. Previously I used to just take diseased claws instinctively but now that I think about it I really ought to be taking BW at 16+ becuase stats are such a minor percentage of my total HP/Damage at that point and Diseased Claws is nice but most people have such high movement speed late game that such a weak snare has very little impact.

Also UB can tear up giants with just ooze, a girdle of giant strength and a mageslayer.

Also UB can tear up giants with just ooze, a girdle of giant strength and a mageslayer

im just talking about a wrath build not a hybrid.

Quoting Maccilia,

reply 8

Also UB can tear up giants with just ooze, a girdle of giant strength and a mageslayer
im just talking about a wrath build not a hybrid.

I don't follow. What build would ever have only wrath by the time giants hit the field? Just pure wrath+stats? Maybe Wrath+Post Mortem+Claws?

I agree those types of builds wouldn't work but honestly I don't think spit works particularly well in that kind of setup either. It just really seems like UB revolves around ooze.

I don't follow. What build would ever have only wrath by the time giants hit the field? Just pure wrath+stats? Maybe Wrath+Post Mortem+Claws?

Thats what i mean

Meh, like I said I don't even think spit+post mortem+claws stands on its own. It's better than wrath would be in its place, but still not that great imo.

UB - I've tried Wrath Builds before using Heavan's Wrath to level quickly. You can use Wrath to break Grasp which is somewhat useful but only if you're playing demigods without any stuns to just stun you back (Sedna, Oak, Queen, Reg) and therefore you just burned your mana for it...

Only an effective very-late game (then it's crazy...) but you won't get there unless you're playing newbs.

Sedna - Yetis

Oak - Last Stand should give some sort of passive buff, similar to how Poison Blood is.

Queen- Compost + Uproot. Uproot is just terrible. Shamblers would be better if they just fixed the horrendous targeting and pathing they have (issue a comman to them to walk to the middle of a creep wave so you can mulch them... yeah. It won't work 90% of the time). Most Level 15 skills.

Reg - all level 15 skills, pretty much. Fine other than that though.

Rook - Transfer... some good players get it butI've never considered it particularily good just because you hurt yourself more than you heal if you do it to the wrong place. God Strength seems useless with Rook's low attack speed and then he gets Cleave/Throw-back if you get his weapon damage high enough anyway.

Erebus - All good, Poison Blood is sorta weak, I s'pose but most people get it for the very high HP regen anyway. And the fact it's a fear-tactic.

TB - all good

--

that said, in general a lot of the Level 15 skills seem lacking:

UB - Foul Grasp III (and II, really)

Sed- the <30% hp== +50 hps one. End game if you're at 30% hp, you are dead within seconds, unless you have a sigil on (raised to an Aura possibly, maybe make all abilities cost 0 mana or very little mana). Pounce's level 15 isn't useful either, since ... no one uses minions on Sed. If Yeti's were made viable, it might become better. Yeti's final skill... but it's yetis so.

Rook - Strut transfer, 150% mana only after using a skill isn't much... TB has +200% regen AND +15% pool as his level 15

QoT - Tribute... Violent Siege

So by the time I'm ready to start choosing stats, max diseased claws, or whatever, I have a pretty good idea of whether or not we're going to go into overtime with artifacts. Previously I used to just take diseased claws instinctively but now that I think about it I really ought to be taking BW at 16+ becuase stats are such a minor percentage of my total HP/Damage at that point and Diseased Claws is nice but most people have such high movement speed late game that such a weak snare has very little impact.

The cool thing about the last rank of BW is that your movement speed cannot be reduced while in that state. Pretty sweet.

I think structural transfer should grant a rediculous armor buff for 10 secounds on use. Like 1000-2000 armor, this would help deal with the stun problem. With the armor jacked up you would still be able to GTFO or tank the tower your raping even better.

Part of the problem of structural transfer is that it doesn't scale well. The first point is by far the most effective, but you never 'arrive' at a strong point later on. I think if structural transfer 2 through 4 each gave -2 seconds to the channel duration, but the same total health, it'd be pretty awesome. At level four you'd channel for only 4 seconds, and get 2000 health, not a bad snack mid combat.

Yeti's need to do significantly more base damage, and have a bit more starting health. Later levels should cost less mana. Sedna is very mana intensive, as she does little Auto attack damage, and often uses idol minions. There needs to be either more synergy, or cheaper costs to her hybridding into Yeti's.

Bestial Wrath I think could cost a little less mana, and that's about it. I think the idea of the skill is sound, but it loses out on a damage per mana scale so very easily compared to his other skills. That said, Beast already has an amazing layout of skills, so it is hard to truly suggest giving him another amazing option.

Last Stand is fine I think. I'm fairly certain that this is one of those abilities that sits around looking awkward until the metagame cycles over to it... and then it rocks. Only thing I could think of would be to make the 'death' animation before it a little faster. People already consider it an 'unfair' ability in some cases with fortress victory condition. Hard to not think there may be a similar path with a citadel.

that sedna line is still wrong +P

God's Strength is quite useful, imho. It gives your attack quite an extra kick, and helps you get that nifty splash damage faster

Quoting Zechnophobe,

reply 15

Part of the problem of structural transfer is that it doesn't scale well. The first point is by far the most effective, but you never 'arrive' at a strong point later on. I think if structural transfer 2 through 4 each gave -2 seconds to the channel duration, but the same total health, it'd be pretty awesome. At level four you'd channel for only 4 seconds, and get 2000 health, not a bad snack mid combat.

Yeti's need to do significantly more base damage, and have a bit more starting health. Later levels should cost less mana. Sedna is very mana intensive, as she does little Auto attack damage, and often uses idol minions. There needs to be either more synergy, or cheaper costs to her hybridding into Yeti's.

Bestial Wrath I think could cost a little less mana, and that's about it. I think the idea of the skill is sound, but it loses out on a damage per mana scale so very easily compared to his other skills. That said, Beast already has an amazing layout of skills, so it is hard to truly suggest giving him another amazing option.

Last Stand is fine I think. I'm fairly certain that this is one of those abilities that sits around looking awkward until the metagame cycles over to it... and then it rocks. Only thing I could think of would be to make the 'death' animation before it a little faster. People already consider it an 'unfair' ability in some cases with fortress victory condition. Hard to not think there may be a similar path with a citadel.

I agree.

In addition to that, I think the QoT Skill 'Tribute' and Regs 'dead eye' need a serious overhaul. Tribute should be replaced with something that enhances shambles more and Dead Eye should either heave a higher stun chance or a longer duration.

Definitely agreed. Reg and QoT both need some serious buffing anyways.

Reg needs buffing ?

regs level 15 skills are all that needs addressing imo.

Yeti's?

Quoting DalzK,

reply 22

regs level 15 skills are all that needs addressing imo.
Yeti's?

Yeti's what?

Need buffing?

Hard to know context of replies without quotes sometimes

I thought he meant the only thing in DG that needs adressing is Regulus's level 15 skills.

Quoting DalzK,

reply 24

Yeti's what?
Need buffing?

Hard to know context of replies without quotes sometimes I thought he meant the only thing in DG that needs adressing is Regulus's level 15 skills.

It was a grammar joke. "Yeti's" made no sense there.

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