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Demigod Overlay Updates

By on September 29, 2009 1:14:50 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1478

ImpulseOverlayScreenshot

I was so hoping to have this to the public this week but there’s various doublebyte vs. unicode issues that have to be dealt with that is total grunt work but has to be done to make sure this works on all languages.

Anyway, this isn’t a mockup but you can see what we’re going for.  In the lobby you’ll be able to learn a bit more about other players from within the game.

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September 29, 2009 6:16:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,

Yes because frogboy has this awesome mind control power and can tell people what to think about premades right?


Shiro - It's a simple point.  Brad indicated that these new features are coming about because "[he] just got stomped by one too many premades so my contribution is being a whiney manchild."  Of course we can extrapolate that his decision is based on community feedback (I'm sure it is).  However, if he was on a premade team, he'd probably see the other side of things as well.  You can disagree with that if you want unless I use my mind control power on you. 
I wasn't disagreeing with you i was making a sarcastic remark about what poly said.

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September 29, 2009 6:41:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Polynomial,

This is a good point. Playing as a premade isn't all bells and whistles. For a game that Frogboy supposedly said was designed for premades they sure get a lot of hate.

Well, I think premades (and I am one of them) have a justifiable reputation.  The bottom line is that this game just isn't made for people that want to play together.  I wish it were, because the games can be fun, but it is not.  There is just no viable match making system - for teams or individuals.  I am happy that this feature is going in, even though it means premades will be a thing of the past.  It just is not right that new / noob / individuals are cluelessly joining a game labelled "3v3" when its a 3 man premade with a 90% win record.  That would chase me from the game pretty damn quick.

 

 

 

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September 29, 2009 6:49:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I wasn't disagreeing with you i was making a sarcastic remark about what poly said.

Sorry, Shiro - I've been on a bit of tear today. 

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September 29, 2009 6:50:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

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September 29, 2009 6:58:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

Bingo.

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September 29, 2009 7:11:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

Sweet crackers!  You just earned Karma +350. 

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September 29, 2009 7:46:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 29
I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.



Sweet crackers!  You just earned Karma +350. 

 

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September 29, 2009 8:25:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This game is past the point of "people quitting because of noob bashing by pre's" game is old. Pre's have been around. noobs have been stomped. The damage is done. Only thing now is to make sure the game can survive another 6 months before everyone leaves. My grip being, that at certain times of the day, there's only 1-2 games to join and 5 pw protected games.

 

Either way, this update is an improvement, thanks for making it happen.

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September 29, 2009 8:36:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

 

If this is what you're going for it seems more intuitive to me to release a change that is going to make it much harder for teams to get any type of game going whatsoever closer to the time when team match making will be released.  Obviously it already takes a frustrating amount of time now, otherwise you wouldn't see this many people voicing this concern here.  Whether or not this change makes it so much worse that teams stop playing remains to be seen, if that's what happens however, the time frame we're likely looking at for team match making to be live is too far out to bring those people back.  I've read that team match making is targeted for next year (if that's not accurate by all means set me straight) and by that time all of these people will have found a new game to play. 

Further, teams quiting will have a snowball effect.  If only premades will play against other premades, and some of them stop playing because it takes too long to get a game going, it will then take even longer to get a game going which in turn will cause even more teams to stop playing.  I would advise caution in deciding when to release this feature, I don't want this game to go away.

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September 29, 2009 8:58:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

 

Sweet crackers!  You just earned Karma +350.

+352..

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September 29, 2009 9:10:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've had 2 "pros" tonight jump into my game, wait until its full and then say PREMADE and leave.  The other side of this nonsense is going to be heard.  They were trying to help defenseless noobs (FYI THEY DID NOT CHECK STATS) and had to join for the sole purpose of ruining our game.  These are the some of the victims you'll be helping.  I'll make a post on the other side of this issue soon... jeeze. 

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September 30, 2009 1:41:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Are you guys serious?

 

You are upset that people that don't want to play against pre-mades will find out that... you are... a pre-made.  And this new update... will allow them to easily discern that you are not someone they want to play against.

It is bad that players know the truth?  

Yes, yes, we need team matchmaking modes.  But, crying about people finding out that you are a pre-made and wanting the developers to encourage obfuscation over that fact is ridiculous and juvenile.

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September 30, 2009 1:48:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Your avatar's fancy glasses mean nothing to me.  Check over here, read if you have the time, and respond.  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365479.  Its not bad that players know the truth.  Read on. 

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September 30, 2009 1:57:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If the Demigod community was strong, with thousands of games starting every hours and tens of thousands of players online at any time, I would agree that this feature would be useful. In the end, I fear it will completely kill the game. I expect after this patch, premades won't be able to play a game together anymore and they will leave which I believe will be 50% of those that remain.

I think Stardock and GPG should be spending the time to get people to come back to the game by doing things such as fixing crashing, being able to rejoin a game if you did crash, new demigods and maps, in-game voice chat, etc... Once these things are in and we have a large playerbase again, then we can see things like this update.

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September 30, 2009 2:15:11 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting generalkazar,
If the Demigod community was strong, with thousands of games starting every hours and tens of thousands of players online at any time, I would agree that this feature would be useful. In the end, I fear it will completely kill the game. I expect after this patch, premades won't be able to play a game together anymore and they will leave which I believe will be 50% of those that remain.

Sorry, I mustn't have received your survey about the communities feelings on premades in my Private Message Inbox which you've obviously used generate this figure. Could you please send it again?

Helping to identify organised teams to non-organised players will force the organised teams to play against other organised teams as they'll no longer be able to trick people into their games for easy wins so easily or be mistaken for random players. If Team Matching where in, it would create a similar situation to what this will create.
If people think this change is so horrible that they feel the need to leave the community, then they were only here to stomp all over other players for easy wins rather than participate in the community a whole. I'll be happy to see the back of them.

Quoting generalkazar,
I think Stardock and GPG should be spending the time to get people to come back to the game by doing things such as fixing crashing, being able to rejoin a game if you did crash, new demigods and maps, in-game voice chat, etc... Once these things are in and we have a large playerbase again, then we can see things like this update.

All of which have already been addressed. Considering this update is entirely of Stardock's making, as Gas Powered Games are busy working on other Demigod and non-Demigod related things, I think it's a great use of their man-power given the limited scope of the changes that they themselves can create.

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September 30, 2009 2:54:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
Sorry, I mustn't have received your survey about the communities feelings on premades in my Private Message Inbox which you've obviously used generate this figure. Could you please send it again?

Note that I said, "I believe" which means I am giving my opinion, which I am entitled to give. If your opinion is different, that is fine, and you are too entitled to it. If you want to see actual numbers, go to http://www.demigodthegame.com/opengames.asp and see how many games are taking place at any given time.

Quoting ZehDon,
Helping to identify organised teams to non-organised players will force the organised teams to play against other organised teams as they'll no longer be able to trick people into their games for easy wins so easily or be mistaken for random players. If Team Matching where in, it would create a similar situation to what this will create.
If people think this change is so horrible that they feel the need to leave the community, then they were only here to stomp all over other players for easy wins rather than participate in the community a whole. I'll be happy to see the back of them.

I accept your opinion (I am not a jerk about it), but I have my own to counter with. A lot premades don't care if they play a premade or a pug. You can see this by reading most of the posts in this forum (since you obviously need hard numbers and won't accept opinions). If I can't play with my friends, this game gets boring. Especially since playing with pugs more often then not, unfortunately means you have to interact with people that are not courteous and play as a team. I don't really care if I play against pugs or premades, I just want to play. Right now, if you start a game that says "premades only" it can take a really long time to get someone to play with, usually since you need another premade that has the same number of players. So the only option left is to start a game and hope to get players.

If people start joining games, checking records and then leaving, I will spend more time in the lobby then actually playing the game. I love this game, but I don't want to sit around waiting. This is why I said if there were more people playing, then this would be fine as premade vs premade would be easy and quick to form.

If you look at my record, I play mostly with friends and I am only 50% so premades vs pugs doesn't mean the pugs lose.


Quoting ZehDon,
All of which have already been addressed. Considering this update is entirely of Stardock's making, as Gas Powered Games are busy working on other Demigod and non-Demigod related things, I think it's a great use of their man-power given the limited scope of the changes that they themselves can create.

If that is the case, then at least dev time isn't wasted, but if my fears are correct, demigod won't have much of a community left after this update, so new maps and demigods might be too late.

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September 30, 2009 3:51:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting generalkazar,
Note that I said, "I believe" which means I am giving my opinion, which I am entitled to give. If your opinion is different, that is fine, and you are too entitled to it. If you want to see actual numbers, go to http://www.demigodthegame.com/opengames.asp and see how many games are taking place at any given time.

Sorry, I'm still not seeing how you're coming to "50%" of players are going to leave because we have will soon have a mechanic to identify organised teams out of a crowd of random players to ensure that Random Players aren't penalised for not playing exclusively in Teams. If organised teams were serious about being organised, this wouldn't be an issue at all because they would welcome any mechanic that ensures more organised teams are playing as a team against other organised teams.

Quoting generalkazar,
Right now, if you start a game that says "premades only" it can take a really long time to get someone to play with, usually since you need another premade that has the same number of players. So the only option left is to start a game and hope to get players.

I play with organised teams every night over LAN, Hamachi and through the offical server browser. You simply need to put your feelers out there and make contact with other teams in your time zone and get organised. That's the primary reason why have an offical set of forums - this isn't just a place to give your opinion.

Quoting generalkazar,
If that is the case, then at least dev time isn't wasted, but if my fears are correct, demigod won't have much of a community left after this update, so new maps and demigods might be too late.

Not to be rude, but the only reason you're fears could come true is if every organised team existed for the sole purpose of crushing random, disorganised players which simply isn't the case. If it was the case, then - as I said - I'm looking forward to them leaving the community so the rest of us can enjoy the game. The demand for this change is a result of Premade Teams stomping disorganised, random players again, and again, and again.

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September 30, 2009 5:00:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
Sorry, I'm still not seeing how you're coming to "50%" of players are going to leave because we have will soon have a mechanic to identify organised teams out of a crowd of random players to ensure that Random Players aren't penalised for not playing exclusively in Teams. If organised teams were serious about being organised, this wouldn't be an issue at all because they would welcome any mechanic that ensures more organised teams are playing as a team against other organised teams.

Are you really having a hard time understanding? I said I believe that it would be 50%. I never said that it will be. My concern is that I believe premades make up half of the players, and as Frogboy even said, the game was designed to be played with premades. Pickup groups work but it is a lot more fun to play with people where you can work together, usually through a voice server. The reason I expect these premades to stop playing is because they will spend long periods of time waiting for another premade to roll along that is compatible with their game options (which I said in my last post).

To spell it out, say I have 3 friends that want to play, I start a 4v4 premade game. Normally it takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes to get another 4 players. Now lets take away half of the players, since they don't want to play with a premade. It would now take twice as long to form a game, so 10-30 minutes since only premades will play against us. But we also are looking for a 4v4, so a 2,3 and 5 person premade can't play with us, so it could even take longer.

If it only took 30 seconds to form a game today, then 1-2 minutes to find a premade would be ok. But the demigod community is very small right now.

Quoting ZehDon,
I play with organised teams every night over LAN, Hamachi and through the offical server browser. You simply need to put your feelers out there and make contact with other teams in your time zone and get organised. That's the primary reason why have an offical set of forums - this isn't just a place to give your opinion.

I can't speak for other premades, but the people I play with change every day and the times we play change. We are in a sense a pickup group in a ventrilo server that then plays demigod. We do play with the same people a lot, but it is not something that is organized. I am not about to spend time to try to find other groups to play with. In fact, when we get more 6 or more players, we just play against each other, since we don't really care who we are playing, we just want to play.

If a game needs people to post on forums and do a lot of leg work to play, the game will fail. The game needs to have a mechanic for doing this and the player base. Try League of Legends if you want to see how premades can be done right (the game sucks, but the lobby system is much better then Demigod), or even a game like Left 4 Dead.

Quoting ZehDon,
Not to be rude, but the only reason you're fears could come true is if every organised team existed for the sole purpose of crushing random, disorganised players which simply isn't the case. If it was the case, then - as I said - I'm looking forward to them leaving the community so the rest of us can enjoy the game. The demand for this change is a result of Premade Teams stomping disorganised, random players again, and again, and again.

This is a very narrow view of the issue. I don't disagree that premades that like to crush noobs won't like this system, and I agree, I would rather see them leave. But my concerns for the time it takes to form a game can easily get most of the premades to stop playing since they can spend the same amount of time that it takes to play a game looking for a game. Would you be ok with sitting in a game lobby for 30 minutes waiting for people to join, or would you move onto another game?

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September 30, 2009 5:36:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting generalkazar,
Are you really having a hard time understanding? ... To spell it out, say I have 3 friends that want to play, I start a 4v4 premade game. Normally it takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes to get another 4 players. Now lets take away half of the players, since they don't want to play with a premade. It would now take twice as long to form a game, so 10-30 minutes since only premades will play against us. But we also are looking for a 4v4, so a 2,3 and 5 person premade can't play with us, so it could even take longer.

If it only took 30 seconds to form a game today, then 1-2 minutes to find a premade would be ok. But the demigod community is very small right now.

I understand your point - however I don't feel it's valid. Your basically saying you're now unable to play against Random players when you're a premade - the point of the system is exactly that. My question is this:
If the system being introduced prevents other pre-made teams from playing random players and thus makes them play against other pre-made teams - read: you and your friends - rather than stomping random players, would this not increase the likely hood that they will join your game as they are unable to crush disorganised players?
And my recommendation still stands; I'm a member of the Australian Demigod community - a very small percentage of the community as a whole - and I have never had an issue getting a game together. Being as we've never played together, I can guess that you're not an Australian gamer, and thus have a larger percentage of players that make up your community. Track down players that you enjoy playing with, and that enjoy playing with you, and get together a small sub-community and play that way. If you'd like I'd be more than happy to play along a Beta Invite to the Stardock's Ready to Play program to make this easier?

Quoting generalkazar,
I am not about to spend time to try to find other groups to play with. In fact, when we get more 6 or more players, we just play against each other, since we don't really care who we are playing, we just want to play.

If making a post on the forums with your time zone and play times requesting other players to play with is too difficult - while you're on the forums, no less - then I have nothing further to say on this issue.

Quoting generalkazar,
If a game needs people to post on forums and do a lot of leg work to play, the game will fail. The game needs to have a mechanic for doing this and the player base. Try League of Legends if you want to see how premades can be done right (the game sucks, but the lobby system is much better then Demigod), or even a game like Left 4 Dead.

I'm currently Beta Testing both LoL and HoN, as well as several other games. While their online feature list is better than Demigods, there gameplay is miles behind it. I'd rather take 30 minutes to play a good game than 1 minute to play a bad game. This is my personal opinion, however. If other games are more appealing, play them instead. What more would you like?

Quoting generalkazar,
But my concerns for the time it takes to form a game can easily get most of the premades to stop playing since they can spend the same amount of time that it takes to play a game looking for a game. Would you be ok with sitting in a game lobby for 30 minutes waiting for people to join, or would you move onto another game?

Again, I'm sorry, but I still don't understand how ensuring Premade Teams are playing only with other Premade Teams is a bad thing, when you say 50% of all Demigod players are organised into Premade Teams. Will they not now join or create Premade Team Games which the other Premade Teams will have to join to play?

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September 30, 2009 8:51:02 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,

I play with organised teams every night over LAN, Hamachi and through the offical server browser. You simply need to put your feelers out there and make contact with other teams in your time zone and get organised. That's the primary reason why have an offical set of forums - this isn't just a place to give your opinion.

Unfortunately it has never been that easy. The only place to really check is IRC and no one ever responds. And people should not resort to playing over Hamachi.

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September 30, 2009 2:02:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZehDon,
I understand your point - however I don't feel it's valid. Your basically saying you're now unable to play against Random players when you're a premade - the point of the system is exactly that. My question is this:
If the system being introduced prevents other pre-made teams from playing random players and thus makes them play against other pre-made teams - read: you and your friends - rather than stomping random players, would this not increase the likely hood that they will join your game as they are unable to crush disorganised players?
And my recommendation still stands; I'm a member of the Australian Demigod community - a very small percentage of the community as a whole - and I have never had an issue getting a game together. Being as we've never played together, I can guess that you're not an Australian gamer, and thus have a larger percentage of players that make up your community. Track down players that you enjoy playing with, and that enjoy playing with you, and get together a small sub-community and play that way. If you'd like I'd be more than happy to play along a Beta Invite to the Stardock's Ready to Play program to make this easier?

It is intersting that you think that because I play in a premade I am going to "stomp" my opponents. If you look at my record, and teh record of most of the people I play with, I only win 50% of my games. I think that a couple of noob stompers have given premades a bad name and now you are trying to pidgeon hole us into one category. If they just showed the win/loss percentage, I think that would be enough. People would enter a game and see that the other team are all 90%, and would realized they would get stomped. If the whole team is 50%, who cares if they are premade, you can still beat them (and I have joined pugs before where we were against a premade and still won).


Quoting ZehDon,
If making a post on the forums with your time zone and play times requesting other players to play with is too difficult - while you're on the forums, no less - then I have nothing further to say on this issue.

Posting on the forums is only a small part of it. It would be about finding another group of people that can play at the same time, and then scheduling both groups to play. Most people don't work that way. When I feel like playing Demigod, I check my vent server and see if anyone else is playing. If they aren't sometimes I wait. When I finally get someone to play with, we go in game and play. It isn't something that is scheduled.

Quoting ZehDon,
I'm currently Beta Testing both LoL and HoN, as well as several other games. While their online feature list is better than Demigods, there gameplay is miles behind it. I'd rather take 30 minutes to play a good game than 1 minute to play a bad game. This is my personal opinion, however. If other games are more appealing, play them instead. What more would you like?

I have played both as well and agree, the games suck, but I am talking about the part that doesn't suck, which is the part we are talking about now. And my point has always been that this patch can/will make a lot of people leave the game, and now you say "if other games are more appealing, play them instead" which is what I expect a lot of people to do.  I want to see the community grow, so I want to see updates that bring people back to the game.

Quoting ZehDon,
Again, I'm sorry, but I still don't understand how ensuring Premade Teams are playing only with other Premade Teams is a bad thing, when you say 50% of all Demigod players are organised into Premade Teams. Will they not now join or create Premade Team Games which the other Premade Teams will have to join to play?

I gave my reasons. Yes, it can be done, but it would take twice as long, which will cause premades to stop playing which will reduce the community even further.

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September 30, 2009 3:03:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
I think the solution isn't to discourage pre-mades but get TEAM matching in which is the long term goal here.

Of course that is the solution, but hazarding a guess, team matching is not close to being implemented.  I think we can all agree that, rightly or wrongly, premades will be getting fewer games after this patch.  With that being the case, what keeps premades around and playing?

Quoting ZehDon,

Helping to identify organised teams to non-organised players will force the organised teams to play against other organised teams as they'll no longer be able to trick people into their games for easy wins so easily or be mistaken for random players.

I agree the change needs to go in, but I don't think you understand how hard it is to get a premade game going.  First off there are different types of premades - 2 mans, 3 mans, 4 mans, and in some outside cases 4 mans.  2 mans do not want to play 3 mans who do not want to play 4 mans, etc.  I play in a 2 man.  I'd play against a 3 man if the game intelligently matched a competent 3rd player to the game - but it doesn't. 

So after the patch, what do I do as a 2 man premade?  I can't join PUG games, even if it's a 4v4 (likely to get kicked based on record and premade status).  I'd play against a 3 man if I could find a competent 3rd - which depending on the day may or may not be possible.  I'd probably not play against a 4man because having 2 pickups would make it very difficult.  So the chances I can get a quick game (i.e., use my time efficiently) is probably unlikely.  At that point I have three options, wait it out to get a game, game Pantheon to play my two man, or play something else.

I guess what it all comes down to is a plea to put match making into Pantheon a priority, but I fully agree that bad PUGs should not be tricked into playing premades.

 

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September 30, 2009 3:53:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I just wish we had a bigger screenshot, I can't read a thing there

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September 30, 2009 3:54:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting playgroundlegend,
This game is past the point of "people quitting because of noob bashing by pre's" game is old. Pre's have been around. noobs have been stomped. The damage is done. Only thing now is to make sure the game can survive another 6 months before everyone leaves. My grip being, that at certain times of the day, there's only 1-2 games to join and 5 pw protected games.

 

Either way, this update is an improvement, thanks for making it happen.

6 months is that when supcom 2 comes out?

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September 30, 2009 3:54:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ZehDon, you have my support!

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