If you think a player is being an ass, post about him here.

One of the best tools for detecting assholes is the lobby chat.  Just strike up a conversation and see what happens.  Often people will just start argueing or trash talking for no reason, these are the people to kick.

Hmm

I would seriusly prefer new players not to join my games. If u are new let someone know. U not only didnt say nothing but u also was trying to tell me how to play.

Most of the game u were getting out there just to get rape. Playing rook with no speed items at 3000HP wtf were u thinking?

Seriusly is it so hard to write in lobby "are noobs welcome here"? is it so hard to check stats to see who you playing againts?

But yeah why bother lets fuck up someones game...............

oh and in case anyone's curious about the skill buld

1 - tower

2 - arrows

3 - hammer

4 - save

5 - boulder + light tower shoulder upgrade

6 - hammer 2

7 - god strength

8 - treb

9 - hammer 3

10 - boulder 2

I don't think I got over lvl 10 in that game, but from there I usually chase hammer, god strength, stat, stat, poison arros, dizzying force and final boulder roll

according to http://www.demigoddb.com/ I had 4350 hp at level 10 about 3600 at level 5, or possibly 2900 briefly before i made it to the shop to buy boots and trade my armor in (by that point I had died the same number of times as you)

As the ub that trashed you so bad I felt I would just put in my two cents

From memory you did several things wrong, first of all you pushed our towers too hard too early and this was a big mistake. Rook can't just run in bash a tower a few times and run out, he's too slow, you have to wait until the front is firmly at the enemies end (i.e.  you have back up, you have godl adavantage and are simply stronger than there demigods etc) otherwise you are jsut an easy target for a tele (or even just a walk).

Secondly you didn't health stack enough, but you probably had no gold.

Also consider going tower rook, esp in a situation liek that where you had an ooze UB enemy who realies heavily on close melee combat and hence can easily be scared away by a tower farm. There are some good guides on the forums, you shoudl chek them out.

I've been playing with/against irek tonight. He isnt a bad guy. Though im not a noob so i dont think he had any problems with me. However, i think he was just frustrated with a teammate who was underperforming his expectations. Happens to all of us, alot of us get frustrated when theres just one player hadicapping the whole game.

Now, since you use the forums and probably have ventured towards the strategies section i am going to assume you gain a decent amount of skill.

Having said that, Irek played in a noob friendly room, aka i dont kick you on my team or not for being a noob and just deal. He got a guy who never played a game before on his team one game and i got him the  next time. He never complained about irek so im guessing all was well and he went 0-7 the game he was on ireks team. Why wasnt there a big deal, well he said im new, and he was willing to be given advice. I noticed after awhile the new guy always was with the sedna at all times. smart strategy when dealing with new players.

Now a newb rook... that can be the most terrible thing ever. And if you were slow/low hp rook you are nothing more than a walking gold farm. And i'd put more emphasis on the low hp than slow because rooks always slow if you ask me. If end game you only have 3000hp as rook you are playing him wrong. Even juggernaut speed stun slam rooks get a decent 4.5 health plus armor. If you go towers at all at least get towers 2 yes it makes a difference. Then you can go slam stun all you want otherwise dont get them at all because tower 1 wont even be a factor late game except maybe for team ninja ports but honestly those towers will drop in seconds.

Rooks work best with other demigods aswell. Say team up with a UB for the instant 2 second stun and then you slam... well squish.

I've played rook several times. You can either build him as a camper or a tower basher.

Being a camper means investing as much as you can in towers (and slam + shoulder towers + boulder roll) and building huge tower farms. That way you can easily secure a lane as no enemy in his right mind is going to even attempt to attack you in the middle of your farm (without shitloads of minions or at least a sedna/oak nearby). In this build, your tactic will be to mana and health stack.

Forget speed or attack strenght (you can invest in godstrenght for that). You need mana to maintain your farm. You start off by going for the health flag (very good move on your part for realising that) and then camping there constantly farming creeps and building towers.

Leave flag capping for your team mates, just hold that lane. Once you gain a few levels, start moving your farm uplane and start pushing, destroying towers etc. Be sure to have a flaglock if things get nasty. As long as you keep pushing and not retreating, you will have a huge advantage. Remember, pushing a lane is better than holding two.

Tower basher is pretty much exactly as it sounds. Invest in structural transfer, godstrenght, slam and shoulder towers. You should be a tower eating machine by level 5 or so. Hope this helps .

Oh man you're absolutely right, i remember seeing that in the forum somewhere.  Now that changes half of my previous post lol.  Perhaps i should play rook some so i can know what i'm talking about lol

Wogrim, we're all noobs at everything at some point. 

Thanks for the tips jongalt, I don't think I've got enough favour for BoF yet, but am saving for it (it was my favourite item when I was playing erebus)

Knowing how the shoulder towers affect life steal, do you still think nameroth is worth while over bloodstone?  It's about 250 more HP and there's the HPS, so it's very worth while, but at 4k to buy it'd take a long time to get out... maybe something I should switch the bloodstone to?

The bloodstone was advice I got from some seasoned rookers who said getting it early gives me a fair bit more staying power in the lanes (and early staying power is really what my build needs)

If they tell me a better one then that's great.  If they do what you did and tell me to quit the game and stop playing then I'll probably ignore them, maybe have a bit of a cry on the forums.  Either way they're not helping me or themselves by being nasty.

Now that's something I hadn't considered, thanks for the pointer.

Using the item build I had above, to have banded & scale armor, bloodstone, vlemish and unbreakables I'd need about 6k.  That does seem pretty high, so how can I fix that...  Vlemish is probably overkill for rook, I usually notice myself running out of mana a lot which is why I go for it, but I never have to worry about mana after getting it, so maybe trading down to scaled helm, that saves me a bit over 1k.

I'm not sure what else I could do to get it below 4.7k, how about providing some more detail?  What's a cheap build and what's an expensive build?

I like the advice earlier about skipping scale at first level and going striaght to nimroth, but that puts the cost back up at 5.8k...

I guess the other thing I could do is change my mid-> late game build options, switch the slayers wraps for wyrmskin's and switch godplate for groffling.

I'm not aware of any rook builds that focus on early game kills, normally I play for assists, denial of creeps and tower pushing.  Given the advice above, that last one is a bad idea so I'll probably stop pushing towers and/or change my build to support tower pushing.

So you're recommending tower builds, as I mentioned above, I hadn't tried em yet, but will try in future, probably next time I play rook, thanks for the advice.

Nope, not me, I've only ever played under this account with this name, I tend to avoid substituting numbers for letters and letters for words, as I feel it makes u[sic] appear childish and uneducated.

Alright, everyone is probably going to shoot me down for being biased, as I frequently play with irek now. (Probably ~75% of games this last week).

Yes, he does get angry occasionally, and he does get impatient, esp if someone makes a small mistake that costs a kill/death. Typically, he'll be like "don't do XXX again". If you do it again, he'll be quiet. Do it a third time, and, yes, he will yell. Making the same mistake three times is 'bad'. Eg, in the First-Game Oak that Podi was talking about (I was the Sedna babysitting him that game) the Oak died about 3 minutes in on a 2v1.

Irek said 'no 2v1'. He said 'okay'. About 4 minutes later, he died again. The new player wasn't overextending (solo'ing towers, which is sounds like you were doing), just didn't know when to run. I told him to 'run on sight' of a 2v1.

He died again. And again. Both to 2v1. Irek got a little angry, sure, but the Oak FINALLY started listening at that point, and played better. So, yes, irek does cope with newbs as long as they listen and he can forgive a mistake or two. Just not 5 fatal mistakes.

Regarding your build:

I'm NOT a good Rook player (I don't have the patience for it), however, I've both played with and against several top-notch Rook players, such as Obscenitor who I think is held as one of the best Rook players who is active.

First: aggro Rook sucks. Until you have 2 second stun bolder roll, you won't be able to reliably hit demigods unless they are stupid and watch you hit them. Even the 1-second stun won't stop a Sedna player who is quick to Pounce if you walked even just 2 steps before you swung your hammer.

Out of all the recent games I've played, I can think of ONE good Aggro Rook player. ONE. They were using the -20% cooldown favor item on Cataract which meant they could spam Hammer + Roll every 5 seconds or so. They were teamed up with a UB who was spamming Grasp, so it worked like this:

- Rook rolls from long range, stuns me.

- UB walked up to me, grasps

- Rook slams for tons of damage

- I heal, try to get the hell out of there

- Rook rolls me just before I get out of range

- UB comes up to me, Spits, finishes the job.

-- repeat

Tower rook provides wonderful tele-ganking opprotunities for your teammates and is very powerful on Cataract. Like other players have mentioned, Rook is very strong on this map while pushing lanes. The Celerity flag + -20% cooldown favor item means you get to spam up towers every 6 seconds, so it only takes about half a minute to get a full complement of towers around you.

Serpant's Blade and Blood of the Fallen are both good choices, and I recommend starting wtih Blood then progressing to Blade then to the Staff of Renewel (+200 hp + 175 mana -20% cooldown). Blood is much more newb-friendly and keeps you alive until you learn when to run/teleport/chase/not-chase/attack towers/not attack towers, etc. Blade will give you a constant stream of mana once you have learned to not DIE, letting you not have to worry about Mana management so much. Finally, once you're pr0 and can manage Mana like a champ, the renewel gives you fantastic ability spamming on Cataract.

--

On items:

First, if you have a competent general on your team, they will probably send you a monk to keep you alive. This helps a ton (esp if you're not getting Blood). A lot of players are selfish and keep both monks next to them at all times, even though only one can heal at a time (though it's important to keep 2 if you're doing a 2v1 or a strong AoE Demigod like TB or if you're in a 2v2 situation). That said, a lot of players will get grumpy if you demand them to split monks. So... meet some friends, play a few games, let them trust you, THEN ask for them to split.

Second,

HP Stack. Like crazy. Tons. I'm not a rook player so I won't tell you what to do as the opening 1k of gold, but I an tell you some general info on items:

1. The cheapest items are almost always the most cost-effective. Specifically:

Scaled Helm, Scalemail, Banded Armor, Unbreakable Boots.

That's 3000 gold exactly and gives you 3500 hp (4800 mitigated) and 2500 mana., without a Favor Item at level 5. If you take into consideration +15% Mana or +15% HP flags, you're looking okay.

Therefore: UNTIL YOU HAVE NO SLOTS REMAINING you should have those 4 items. If you're having mana issues, sell Scaled Helm, get Vlemish. If you're havign HP issues, sell Scalemail and get Vanguard of Life.

Remember, selling items re-coups 80% of your gold. This makes a great deal. This also means sometimes it's better to get an inferior item with your spare-change to sell it back later, rather than have an empty slot. (Eg, Plate Visor or Guantlets of Brutality). That said, sometimes a Health Potion or Teleport Scroll is the better choice (and, frankly, I typically get these before. However, I play a very 'naked' build because I dump a lot of my early-gold into the citadel and typically have only 3 items until level 10 or so. I just play Sedna a lot which means I'm VERY good at staying alive).

2. Godstrength is not all that great. You actually just need to hit a certain amount of Weapon Damage to auto-gain cleaving. Godstrength raises your Weapon Damage by 50, at the cost of a skill point. Guantlets of Brutality gives you 25 dmg at the cost of...  400g and an item slot. Your skill points are probably better spent on :

- Towers if you don't have them already

- Passive attack structures

- Bolder Roll (DG's walk into tower farm, you roll they are stunned taking tons of tower damage).

- Hammer Slam

- Stats (gives you a small mana + hp bonus, which we have already established is good)

- Strutcural Transfer (though probalby no more than 1 or 2 points on this... it's not very good.)

3. Regarding the cheap life-stealing ring...

How this works is that you have 12 arrows firing every second. They do 12 damage, or whatever. Yous teal 3% of that which == 1 hp. So that equals 12 hps, and only when in combat. Really not that much. Of course, you'll also lifesteal off of your auto attack which will come out to about 8 health per strike which is 6 hps at level 5 (you have an attack time of 1.57). So, for 1750 gold you're getting 400 hp and about +20 hps while in combat.

Once you get your trubuchet and shoulder towers you'll get maybe 30 hps while in combat.

Compare this to Vlemish which is the same amount of gold:

+600 HP +10 hps

So, same price, but 200 more max-hp at the cost of ~1/3rd of the health per second rate... which is ALWAYS active. If you're spending more than one third of your time in combat (creeps or demigods... NOT counting your towers, btw) then, sure, you come out ahead in the hps avenue. And the 200 extra hp Vlemish provides probably isn't game breaking.

Or.. you could get Unbreakable Boots:

+600 HP +5 hps + 800 Mana... 1500g.

As you can see, the Ring is ... not really that good except maybe to fill the fifth slot. But, the fact is that priests for 1800g will get you WAY more healing that this Ring ever will. Still, the 4000g ring, Narmoth's is freaking awesome as it gives TONS of HPS (20) AND Health (750) AND lifesteal.

However, if you are willing to save a few thousdand gold (3750g).. you can get Orb of Defiance. Which makes you invincible for 5 seconds (combine with Cataract's celerity flag and the Staff of Renewel and you can spam this every 23 seconds, effectively meaning you're invinsible about 25% of the time, if you want to be. Get 2 Celerity flags and you can be invincible for 5 seconds every 20 seconds), and also gives you +500  hp and +500 armor. AND it goes in the Consumable slots, not the Item slots... which means you can keep your high cost-efficiency items for longer.

It works like this: You have your tower farm. I team up with my team mate to TAKE YOU DOWN AND GANK YOU.

You retreat back a little, we chase you. We start hurting you, shouting victory, while your towers do savage dps to me.

At about 2/3rd health (so I'm nice and engaged in combat), you hit this. Now, I am stuck, for five seconds in the tower farm... what do I do? I can leave... but then I have to walk through it again to get back to you, and by then I will have no hp. I can dps the towers while I wait for you, but you know what you're going to do? As soon as you are out, you're going to roll your bolder to stun me for 3 seconds, continuing to take tower dps.

Holy shit, that' 8 seconds of me taking damage and doing NO damage to you... and crap, you're going to roll your boulder at me again in 6 seconds. That'll make it 11 seconds. By the time that happens, you'll have your Orb of Defiance ready again. Then you're going to be invincible... I'll keep taking tower damage... oh shit. This is looking bad. Btw, while I'm stunned, you're eating HP potions, so I haven't even HURT you yet. Or, just regaining health passively. Also, while you're using the Orb of Defiance, your little stupid trebuchet is still firing even though the manual says you can't attack/move while this is active. Hacks.

You laugh maniacly.

Of course, this only works once. After that, they will slowly wittle away your towers instead of charging right in to you. But that's what you want. They are taking dps, they aren't controlling the map. All is well. Also, if you do this at the WRONG time (when you should be fleeing and you have no farm around you), it'll get you killed because you will have 3 demigods surrounding you counting seconds and then chain-stunning you.

4. Learn to adapt

So, you read the guides. Great. You played Single Player. Great.

You know your AWESOME BADASS UNBEATABLE BUILD from the website. Great..

Then you lose. Why? Because your enemies countered yoru build.

The fifth slot (esp) as well as your order of skill items should revolve on countering your opponents. They getting away all the time? Consider snares. They snaring you? Consider Boots of Speed or Wand of Speed (though not that great on a Rook ...) If they are packing up all together, buy lots of locks. When the gang comes, lock'n'leave. You will control the map since they can only be in one place at the time, but you're locking everyhting as the pack comes to gank you. (this doesn't work too well for Rook, but you should be in a farm anyway).

So, yes. I no longer have a 'killer' UB or Sedna build. I typically get certain skills at certain levels (Healing Wind II @ 5 for Senda, Grasp I for UB) just because they are REALLY GOOD and important. But some games I'm going

Heal - Grace - Pounce - Wind - Wind

others I'm going

Heal - Wind - Grace - Pounce - Wind

other I'm going

Heal - Pounce  - Grace - Wind - Wind

others I'm going

Heal - Wind - Grace - Heal - Wind

Case A: 'standard' first is generally strongest when I'm doing a lot of 1v1 for the HP flag and holding that lane (which, you're right. That flag is generally the most important one on Cataract. You did good... but irek knows that already )

Case B:

My lane is 2v2, I need Wind to keep my partner alive easier, then I'm getting Grace for indivisual survival + chase then I'm getting Pounce for the kill because we're winning. I'm probably also faking 'out of mana' by not healing for a while, letting htem chase me to my tower, then getting Blood of the Fallen last second and healing. Meanwhile, my teammate has been whacking away at them, and they now have no health and have to retreat back to the crystal now.

Case C:

See a regulus with very low HP. I get Cloak of the Night (I don't pick my favor item until about 3 minutes into the game), call out a snipe for my reg teammate, he snipes, I blink + Pounce then the Reg is at 800 hp. Few auto attacks later and then a heaven's wrath... First Blood 3 minutes into game

Case D:

The game is mostly 3v3 and I'm basically heal-botting and keeping my team alive. Not going for kills, just passive Autoattack here-and-there and then keeping our tanks alive.

---

As I'm sure you can guess, it gets progressively more and more complicated. Am I teaming up with a UB a lot who is spamming Spit + Grasp? I should get Presense so he can do it faster. Am I heal botting? Spec heal. Are they using a lot of slows and other debuffs? Get Heal III ASAP to counter that. Do I have Cloak of the Night + a good reg on my team? Spec Pounce and do Blink + Pounce + Snipe for the sudden 1800+ damage. They going really fast? Get Grace or Wyrmskin Gloves (no one expects a snare on a Sedna). Am I too poor to buy a lot of Teleport Scrolls, maybe I need Boots  of Speed so I can run faster. Am I spending a lot of time away from one of my allies? Get better monks, split them so I can be healing in two places at once. Am I fighting a lot of Generals who got Bishops + Priests early? Get anti-healing wind and laugh as they just wasted 2700 + 1800 gold. Alternatively, playing ONLY assassings, who are depending on Priests to heal. Get anti-healing wind and deny them that satisfaction and dependency.

---

Finally, if you just can't do well with Rook... change it up. UB and Sedna are both very newb-friendly as UB is one of the more strong demigods inherently so he's more forgiving (esp with Blood of the Fallen+ a monk). Sedna, of course, has the wonderful heal button and crazy HPS, though with this char you're more likely to get teammates yelling at you for not making them invincible

So yeah... just my opinion on this. And don't diss my team mate again. > I think I just re-paid any debt you feel he owes you, because I just gave you a ton of advice and that's what you created this thread about: irek yelling at you and not giving you advice. So, here I am, irek's partner (ish), giving you advice.

I hope PlayerTrack will be usable with Demigod soon, so we can DNP people like irek1988.