Win/Loss ratios

It does show the strongest demis at the top tho, especially sedna and erebus.

Both of which had exploits available to them up until very recently. It would be interesting to look at those figures again in say...4 months and see if there is a swing asway from Sedna and LE.

Expected Oak a bit higher and Sedna a bit lower, but I don't play MP anyway. They vary a bit too much for my taste, deviation of 10% would be awesome, in other words QOT 0.9 and LE 1.1. But balancing it that way is probably impossible. It also depends on what chars people want to play.

Quoting AmaZinG_HerO_DN,

reply 1

It does show the strongest demis at the top tho, especially sedna and erebus.

Not entirely true, Torch Bearer can farm them. If you know how

the exploit was fixed at around 10,000 games played per demigod.
the current figures are pretty accurate imo.

3 fastest demigods at the top of the list.

QoT = lowest stats per level up - peaks at lvl 10
TB = low stats per level up - ice tb not enough dmg, fire tb auto-attack bug ruins him
Rook = too damn slow - very easy for new players to die multiple times early game

The exploits mentionned about Sedna and Erebus had very little to do with their win ratios, first off Sedna's level 3 priests were more of a bug than an exploit, I'd bet at least 30-50% of the players didn't know about it, not to mention it really wasn't that significant. I guess Erebus exploits refer to the minions inside citadel thing which I've never even seen used (and I've played a shitload of games) so it must have been extremely rare. Drinking his own potion for gold exploit was almost never used too.

Funny that Erebus is the only Demigod to receive a nerf so far past release day, (You could say that removing Horn of Battle was a nerf to him also) and still has the best win ratio, by a considerable margin, almost 30% disparity which is too much. I'd like to see a nerf to swarm, maybe a small one, it makes him extremely annoying to kill, not to mention allows him to chase down low demigods who otherwise would have escaped. Coven should be nerfed down to 4/6/8.

Sedna's staying power is too good.

Regulus's win ratio would be a lot better if he wasn't so popular among noobs for some reason.

Queen really needs a buff, doubt we'll see one any time soon.

i want to see another nerf to bite.

it is better than sednas pounce + heal in one skill pretty much.

its the only reason he is so high up.

remove 1 part of it, e.g. the armor debuff, and *poof* he is balanced

just go play some games with TB and then some with erebus and note how much easier it is to take/defend/fight/down towers etc.

stats are just butter on the bagel at this point.

Quoting Busdude,

reply 6

The exploits mentionned about Sedna and Erebus had very little to do with their win ratios, first off Sedna's level 3 priests were more of a bug than an exploit, I'd bet at least 30-50% of the players didn't know about it, not to mention it really wasn't that significant. I guess Erebus exploits refer to the minions inside citadel thing which I've never even seen used (and I've played a shitload of games) so it must have been extremely rare. Drinking his own potion for gold exploit was almost never used too.

Funny that Erebus is the only Demigod to receive a nerf so far past release day, (You could say that removing Horn of Battle was a nerf to him also) and still has the best win ratio, by a considerable margin, almost 30% disparity which is too much. I'd like to see a nerf to swarm, maybe a small one, it makes him extremely annoying to kill, not to mention allows him to chase down low demigods who otherwise would have escaped. Coven should be nerfed down to 4/6/8.

Sedna's staying power is too good.

Regulus's win ratio would be a lot better if he wasn't so popular among noobs for some reason.

Queen really needs a buff, doubt we'll see one any time soon.

its all true........

Thanks for the post Cos, that's interesting.

j

I would like to see QOT get some buffs. I started playing her recently, and I really like the idea of her minion build, but they seam a bit weak.

I would also like to see sedina minions get a buff so that build is viable. Oaks/erbs minions are much more viable for one main reason. There is more of em. to be honest I dont think they are to easy to get at all, its the fact tht you can have tons of em, and so when you get buff for them it add up faster, as opposed to qot or sedinas.

I dont htink sedina/QOT should have more minions but rather make them a bit stonger.

I don't think it helps that Rook, QoT, and TB are probably the most challenging Demis in the game to play, and TB is quite popular among noobs.

The problem with these statistics is it's only really an indication of which Demigods are easiest to play well or popular; the easier the Demigod, the more players will play them, the higher their ratio. LE is sitting nicely on the top because of the Horn exploit that existed, however I've still seen QoT in proper hands dominate a game - she's just really difficult to play well. UB requires very little time to learn, and Sedna has the wonderful ability to never die (exagerated statement).

the easier the Demigod, the more players will play them, the higher their ratio

Regulus is played 1.5 times more often than Lord Erebus or Sedna, so you're plain wrong here. As I said, the sheer number of games in this statistic averages out different skill levels.

A good QoT is very micro intensive, nevertheless any mediocre Erebus player can easily defeat her (and most other Demigods). You also won't see any of the 3 lower Demigods in serious premade matches (see ESL ladders). You simply cannot deny these facts.

You quoted the wrong part

Quoting ZehDon,

reply 13

The problem with these statistics is it's only really an indication of which Demigods are easiest to play well ...

Is the part that provides context for the section you quoted. Regulus is harder to play well because of the foresight and situational awareness required. A Pure Erebus Minion build is pretty much stack HP, summon minions, rape face. Obviously a better player will do better, however the level of competency required, due to the ease of use of the minions, is lowered. It's not over-powered, it simply doesn't require the knowledge that other Demigods do, much like how UB operates - hence him also being in the top three.

Quoting CosMoe,

reply 14

A good QoT is very micro intensive, nevertheless any mediocre Erebus player can easily defeat her (and most other Demigods). You also won't see any of the 3 lower Demigods in serious premade matches (see ESL ladders). You simply cannot deny these facts.

Which only further proves my point - QoT is simply harder to play well. I've seen, more than once, a QoT dominate an entire match - first game that pops into my mind was QoT and team mates against an Erebus, Sedna and Oak. I was the Erebus. Any Demigod is an incredible force in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.

Pretty much every game i've gone with good teams there is always always a sedna and a ub. Plus the fact that most of the good players would say thier best demigod is A) Sedna Unleashed Beast C) Erebus not everyone but yea i think these statistics are dang honest.

TB, ice at least, needs good teammates, he isnt the dps guy he's the stun/silence guy. Fire, well thats a different story but i havent seen to many good fire TB's and they usually arent able to hold thier lane against a sedna, ub, or erebus.

QoT is just hard to play. And if you get behind too far in levels/gold it almost feels hopeless depending on your build. Plus shields pop after 3 hits late game.

Rook... well everyone knows he's a new players favorite and they, already at a disadvantage in experience, dont always know when to run away as rook and being extra slow are easy kills for good players.

Thats how i feel about them. Everyone, i think, knows QoT needs a buff at least.

Pretty much every game i've gone with good teams there is always always a sedna and a ub

That sounds fair in my experience as well. I always have a sed/beast in 2v2, but am not always for it in 3v3 (on cat, for instance). QoT needs a buff IMO.

Honestly, though, I find myself gravitating to 1 of the top 3 characters noted here in most games. What I find even more interesting is that the list in OP pretty much covers my list for preferable Dgs exactly. I rarely play queen anymore (not just due to Zechnophobes build).

Quoting pacov,

reply 17

Pretty much every game i've gone with good teams there is always always a sedna and a ub

That sounds fair in my experience as well. I always have a sed/beast in 2v2, but am not always for it in 3v3 (on cat, for instance). QoT needs a buff IMO.

Honestly, though, I find myself gravitating to 1 of the top 3 characters noted here in most games. What I find even more interesting is that the list in OP pretty much covers my list for preferable Dgs exactly. I rarely play queen anymore (not just due to Zechnophobes build).

2v2 - Sedna\LE should almost always win a sed/ub team if both teams have experienced players.

All I know is when 2 teams of equal skill play one is UB,Seda,Erebus and the other team is not that combination, the team that is not UB,Sedna,Erebus WILL LOOSE.

Seperately I don't find them OP. Together its a different story.

Quoting Cowbuttzex,

reply 19

All I know is when 2 teams of equal skill play one is UB,Seda,Erebus and the other team is not that combination, the team that is not UB,Sedna,Erebus WILL LOOSE.

Seperately I don't find them OP. Together its a different story.

- You forgot Oak.

- What do u mean seperately?

Thing is, if a certain demigod is hard(er) to play well, isn't that a balance issue in itself? You can say "well if you play <demigod x> well then it's just as good as the rest" but if it's very hard to play it well then you have a balance issue just the same imo.

That depends on how you define balance, really. Most multiplayer games assign balance according to how a character functions at the skill cap. As an example, Pyro's in TF2 are frequently used by newer players and can dominate public games, but are actually not deemed nearly as powerful as scouts, soldiers, and demomen, who can be absolutely destructive at the skill cap. The same can be said for endgame heroes in DotA (versus earlygame heroes).

Another problem is that many people feel that DG's actual skill involves learning to play as a team with other people; in this case, the balance of an individual Demi matters much less than your ability to cooperate and strategize with your team. Characters like TB and QoT are not effective soloists, whereas UB and Sedna can be. Does this mean UB and Sedna should be worth less in a team fight than TB and QoT? If so, would people still play them? Balancing can be harder than it looks.

You can't take into consideration the 'skill' level of your player base when balancing a game... unless you planning on marketing the game to blind Tibetan monks with unmeasureable reflex response times, in which case you might want to lower your standard a little bit.

Balancing around a particular 'skill' level places any player not playing at that exact level at an advantage or disadvantage. In this case, it's the lesser of two evils.

One of the biggest problem with the QoT I had when I tried playing her is when there are alot of creeps/minions all packed up in a fight, is finding the shambler and munching it. Also I find munch becomes effective too late in game. Further the form switching makes her micro even more advanced. Bramble is great but thats about it. She definitly needs a review.

Rook should get a move like JUMP, so he can get away more easily, like the new Occulus thingy

Oak, UB, regulus are fine.

Torchbearer should get higher ice damage, very few people play ice.

Erebus: I always have the feeling he takes too little damage for some unknown reason, I can't say way. Nerf coven to 4/6/8 is should work. Also the negative armor should be fixed.

One thing about the Erebus - an Assasin erebus is almost as powerful as a minion erebus. The other team has a crapton AOE, a TB and a mine reg or something, the erebus just goes pure assasin, and with batswarm/bite/mass charm, any TB or Reg that comes near an erebus alone is dead. Sedna and UB might be able to take it 1v1, but the amazing escape ability of an erebus makes up for a lot.

Sedna is simply essential in any good team. Sedna + UB/Ere/Oak vs any twosome without a sedna? The sedna side wins.

Frankly, the surprising statistic, to me, is that Reg does as well as it does. I've only ever played with one reg worth bothering with. Once a game comes down to flag locking portals, a reg becomes almost worthless, since it can't stand in a fight against anyone. Kiting isn't very helpful when all someone wants to do is lock a flag and leave. The complete and utter lack of stuns/interrupts does not help this at all. This is one of the main reasons you'll never see a fire TB or a reg in a serious premade game. Sure, you can get away with it as long as you have two tanks to hold lanes (for cataract) but it's a disadvantage. If you don't win the game before it comes down to portal locking at the end, the reg/fire tb side should lose.

Reg vs a UB with spit? it's not even funny. Reg vs Assasin erebus? That one actually is funny, because the assasin erebus ganks him all day long. The fact that a good team will have at least one of those? Not good for reg.

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