Flag locks

Go to their base and do the same thing, just keep a DG on defense.

Every action/play/move has a counter...

Kind of an odd post at the end there. You say there is no counter, nothing you can do, then list exactly the correct counter, and exactly what you are should do....

When you are facing a matched opponent, the goal of the end game becomes flag locks. Nothing else.

This is absolutely correct and I think it makes the game very anti-climactic. I wouldn't shed a tear if flag locks were removed completely if if they only worked on flags which are contested at the start of the game.

People love the flag lock strategy though so I woudlnt' expect a change. It's just a bit boring for me to have the game shift from countering DGs to stopping flag caps right at the point that you get your final powers.

Really though it's just a map issue. When you play a fair variety of maps it's not so bad, as ones like Zikurat, Exile, Crucible (though that has plenty of other faults) etc. the backcapping isn't such a dominant aspect of the game. It's mostly just Cataract that's disproportionately focused on it.

Even maps like Leviathan aren't that bad since those flags have proper tower cover and are close enough to the base/crystal for attacking them to not be a joke if they're left unsupervised for a moment.

Ever tried to use cap-locks yourself? Or do you spend those money on "Graveyard" citadel upgrade?

somone cap locking = free flag kill imo. Pay attention.

Oh yeah dude, when a rook wanders on to your flag, sets down a tower, and preps a hammer slam on top of your teleport it's going to be a real cake walk for you. Or if it's Sedna or EB with a big pile of minions on top of it.

This advice falls into the category of "dude, just kill the enemy DGs whenever you see them and you'll totally win."

Who in their right mind doesn't think you'll win if you kill the enemy DGs any time you see them? The complaint the OP has is with how flag locks shift the focus of the game, which isn't something you can argue against, as it's a matter of personal preference. Some people see flag capping as fun, some don't, neither can be right or wrong.

Right.. becuase you can't watch to see if hes raising his hammer and recast on a nearby tower? If he's SKIPPING towers to cap lock, the solution is simple, pin him down and kill him. If he escapes you're a blasted idiot. A rook tower? Honestly? You're afraid of a rook tower? Your whining about flag locks as if they are the holy grail of this game.

It's possible to win without them. Are they good? Yes, but easily counterable if you're PAYING ATTENTION. I don't see how my advice falls into the category of just kill them. The point of my post was map awareness but, that obviously flew over your narrowminded rant about me disagreeing with the OP's rant.

Coordinated defenses stops silly moves like single man portal locks with ease. Now if were talking a team push, thats a whole different story all together, and really has nothing to DO with the portal lock, but you not being able to kill them.

Right.. becuase you can't watch to see if hes raising his hammer and recast on a nearby tower? If he's SKIPPING towers to cap lock, the solution is simple, pin him down and kill him.

If you read the OP you'd know that we're talking about games where giants have hit the field which means players have the armor and damage to make sipping towers more trouble than it's worth. Also the map on which this is the largest issue and the one the OP's probably talking about is Cataract where there are no nearby towers once the two up top are gone. Also the point is to prevent losing the flag so it can't be capped, remember? How well is that going to work when you're cancelling ports and redirecting? You're on a on a VERY short time limit.

You're afraid of a rook tower?

Free hammer slam on the port, 1-3 towers ready by the time you arrive, autoattack, independent weapons, and the knowledge that boulder roll will be ready to go to set up the second hammer slam. Man, what an idiot I must be for worrying about that kind of stuff.

Your whining about flag locks as if they are the holy grail of this game.

They ARE the holy grail on Cataract. I already stated that I don't find them out of whack on other levels.

The point of my post was map awareness but, that obviously flew over your narrowminded rant about me disagreeing with the OP's rant.

Yes, it was about map awareness and it glosses over the fact that just finding the person capping your flag in time doesn't mean you can stop them, you have to be able to react in time and you have to be able to drive them off. You act like being able to do those is a foregone conclusion when quite frequently you're short on health/mana, you're in combat with someone already who will interrupt your port, or you're simply not the right DG to easily drive that player off in time to prevent losing the flag.

Coordinated defenses stops silly moves like single man portal locks with ease. Now if were talking a team push, thats a whole different story all together, and really has nothing to DO with the portal lock, but you not being able to kill them.

I disagree because multiple players who move onto a portal flag are going to flip it before you can TP over there. The more players who participate in the attack the less important being able to win the fight becomes. It's about flipping, locking, and TP'ing back in time to relock, which can be done even if you die. The game is hardly about fighting at that point, it's about ceaseless scouting and staring at your minimap constantly, which I don't find as compelling as the 10-20 minutes prior to that part of the game.

On cataract the game changes dramatically when players get giants and I don't find the hide-and-seek routine especially compelling, and I think that's what the OP was getting at, though maybe that's just me.

quoting post

Someone walks right through the base, ignoring towers, etc. Gets the flag, and locks it. Game over.

It is the winning move. No counter, nothing you can do.

Pay attention to your portals, always keep a teleport scroll and a lock in your inventory, lock them yourself before someone else gets them.

This was pointed out already, but the bold and underlined portions of your post directly contradict one another.

If you read the OP you'd know that we're talking about games where giants have hit the field which means players have the armor and damage to make sipping towers more trouble than it's worth. Also the map on which this is the largest issue and the one the OP's probably talking about is Cataract where there are no nearby towers once the two up top are gone. Also the point is to prevent losing the flag so it can't be capped, remember? How well is that going to work when you're cancelling ports and redirecting? You're on a on a VERY short time limit.

I meant you can use the back tower for teleporting to avoid that "omg hammer" that you're so worried about. Yes on cataract its the largest issue, im not debating that, but you should have good knowledge of where the enemy is heading, and be able to be there or cut off behind them if you're using your totems properly. It's not really that big of a deal if they get the flag and die, its now a 2v3 in your base, that is entirely defendable. If he res-> tele for flag lock, you should be able to stunlock him on the second try.

Free hammer slam on the port, 1-3 towers ready by the time you arrive, autoattack, independent weapons, and the knowledge that boulder roll will be ready to go to set up the second hammer slam. Man, what an idiot I must be for worrying about that kind of stuff.

No such thing as a free hammer slam, and you should already know where he was going if you have true map awareness. Clearly the problem for you is not proper scouting the field, which comes back to awareness.

They ARE the holy grail on Cataract. I already stated that I don't find them out of whack on other levels.

No they aren't, not by a long shot. visibility is.

Yes, it was about map awareness and it glosses over the fact that just finding the person capping your flag in time doesn't mean you can stop them, you have to be able to react in time and you have to be able to drive them off. You act like being able to do those is a foregone conclusion when quite frequently you're short on health/mana, you're in combat with someone already who will interrupt your port, or you're simply not the right DG to easily drive that player off in time to prevent losing the flag.

If their team is splitup, you shouldn't be low on mana, or health, and you should have the advantage to lock them in an undesirable position. This is a team game, not I are soro everything.

I disagree because multiple players who move onto a portal flag are going to flip it before you can TP over there. The more players who participate in the attack the less important being able to win the fight becomes. It's about flipping, locking, and TP'ing back in time to relock, which can be done even if you die. The game is hardly about fighting at that point, it's about ceaseless scouting and staring at your minimap constantly, which I don't find as compelling as the 10-20 minutes prior to that part of the game.

On cataract the game changes dramatically when players get giants and I don't find the hide-and-seek routine especially compelling, and I think that's what the OP was getting at, though maybe that's just me.

This is nub play is what im saying, good players don't hide and seek unless you're doing a minion run.

I've already had these type of close games last over 50 minutes. Without flag locks who knows how long 2 skilled teams playing each other could go.

Cataract is a small map, and therefore the games end abruptly once you hit warscore 8 or even 10. That is the nature of small maps.

Try this strategy on Zikkurat, and tell me how it works out for you.

Zikurat is the same thing, once you get cats if your team keeps the side portals locked you win the game.

Wickedbear looking at your game history you almost exclusively pub stomp with premades without even the slightest implication in your game titles that good players only should join, so I don't really think that calling reasonable people's concerns "nub play" is especially insightful criticism.

You have a very skewed perspective of how normal games play and I appreciate your perspective but I simply disagree with you. Scouting is important, map awareness is important, but to perpetually know exactly where the enemy DGs are at all times requires map dominance, which you're not going to have all the time in real fights, which you (not "one," but YOU specifically) rarely see.

31-1 looks nice on the stats page, but it shows you're not playing any challenging games at all.

Oh, so you concede the arguement based on your opinon of my playstyle? You clearly win, heres a cookie.

Edit: (I'll be nice, since you changed yours) As any premade team will tell you, no matter what title you put in, the challegers will be crappy. You don't increase your chances of a good game by putting somthing like "pros" in the title. Don't let yourself believe otherwise because only the biggest retards claim themselves as pros half the time.

Lol nice edit, clearly changed the entire point of your post, next time ill quote you.

You don't need map dominance to have visibility, theres these great insta cast totems for 50 gold that give you visibility! Try one today! So you're going to go with the fact my normal games are such dominence that we hardly ever don't have map control? We'll sounds great on paper, but thats just not true. We've had our fair share of borderline games, just wish I was running fraps back then ::sighs:: the last couple of days has been abbysmal.

Lol nice edit, clearly changed the entire point of your post, next time ill quote you.

I apologize if some of my edits are dramatic, I'm used to other forums with a preview option... many times when I hit the post button I see that what I've written didn't come out right, is incorrect, doesn't make sense, or is riddled with errors like the wrong homynyms, broken tags, or whatever and I try my best to fix it.

I do proofread before I post, but the [quote ] [/quote ] tags, manual html tags when my browser's being obtuse, and a number of other things make it very difficult to catch all the mistakes before hitting the "Post Reply" button, as the final post looks much different than it does in the diaglogue entry field, especially when there's multiple quotes and the post itself is one big mess before the tags are processed.

You can always lock your own flags...

I too agree that flag locking is far too powerful and really the only thing you need to do end game.

You MUST defend against portal flag locks and you must aim for them likewise.

If they'd just introduce a "Key" item you could buy for 500 gold then everything would be fine. Or remove locking altogether, I don't see it as a desired game mechanic.

Theres nothing wrong with cap locks, they're a strategic addition that prevents people from flag tossing back and forth. The game is not over if you lose a flag. The game is over when you're team lets them KEEP that flag.

Its really only a problem on cataract, there should be more towers near those portal flags.

On other maps I never had a problem with capture locks.

Never had any problem with it. If you have flag control, there is little someone with a Cap lock can do to you. It does make taking a flag back harder, but if they are that distrbuted, you should be able to snag them each on their own as your teammates stick with you. Take back each flag one at a time and lock them. Once you reach the third flag, have each of your DGs take position using teleport scrolls.

The Flag locks are fine.

I have to agree with Obscenitor and InfiniteVengeance. I find the whole flag-lock routine boring. Compound that with 4 portals of Giants, and it's really the only thing worth doing late game.

Flag lock was the only thing that saved me in my game were my team mate and i had ourselves against a wall. every time they pushed i would teleport back to lock the portal they were planning on taking. ended up winning the game due to that strat and getting giants before they did.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.