Queen of Thorns - Number of Games Played

My personal observation is that in a game with equally skilled players, the team with a QoT always loses in lategame.

That's probably why so few people play her, I actually only know one guy who is good with QoT and even then chances are high to lose in lategame.

Well i play QoT alot recently. Most games dont end up being long games though, and in the early game she is fierce. I think most people dont like her because she isnt exactly easy to learn. When i first tried using her i was squished like a lil bug. But thats the same for every demigod.

Part of the reason i like playing her is that not alot of poeple seem to like her. Most darkness players use Eberus or UB. Having a QoT on your team opens up alot of strategy options. It lets you knock towers down earlier than usual, for instance. Plus gives you and your teammates alittle more leeway early game to chase the enemy down through thier towers and get a kill. Gold early on makes all the difference

Its a shame not too many people like playing as QoT i think she is a right powerful demigod if you know what you're doing.

In my experience, offensive QoT (taking the aoe spikes) is meh, but a good defensive (shamblers/shield/consume) is pretty much unkillable. I've fended off multiple DG's at a flag mid game often, and it's not out of them being bad, I've just stacked a lot of mana, have nice big shields and shamblers i can eat for damage and really good heals (12+ anyway). At 15 with a 2500 that's nearly instant, and shields that are instant, my creep will wear most people out before my mana dries up. Only problem is going for the kill, you need so much mana stacked that it's tough to end up with any good white damage, but if you get some slows or work with any other DG you're at a huge advantage.

Offensive queen is just too weak, killing creep is fun and a nice advantage early game and for working down towers , but the lack of direct damage at the gain of AOE is not very good for taking out DGs. Especially not late game. And given most people dont want to rely on others for kills, you tend not to see a lot of them in Pantheons/Skirmishes because I think people tend to assume they're better than whoever they're going to be with so they'd rather be a DG that can do all the work like UB or Erebus.

I like defensive QoT and can usually take an otherwise lackluster partner and work around/with them to keep them alive and score some kills. But if you've got a total noob for a partner then you're best off just putting points into Uproot and taking out the map yourself, as you can usually survive toe to toe with towers from like lvl2/3 depending on your gear.

I did see a lot of QoT last pantheon when I was on light, but I haven't seen many this time around on darkness unless it's me. So I'd say the stats are probably not padding QoT to make her feel better about herself. That's what her boobs are for.

Of all the Demigods, I've used QoT the most. -Pod- is right. Her role as support is not to be underestimated. I typically go for the minions + ground spikes build to get Goddess of Thorns late game. In a team battle, ground spikes not only gets rid of all the creeps from their side, it also damages and reduces the armour of the entire enemy team (if you've positioned her correctly). Minion builds are weak against AoE enemy Demigods though.

She definitely needs to be a lot more cautious and defensive late game, or be secretly blitzing another lane while the rest of the enemy team is distracted.

ive seen in another post that her base stats r the lowest out of all other demigods from level 1 to lvl 20. I think a few demigods need a base stat change.

ive used qot before quite a few times ... she can be fun to use but she cant really hold her own. ive been thinking about it, and i think her skill tree needs to be changed aswell as how some of the skills work.

quoting post

This is a personal observation and therefore it is not accurate for all of Demigod games played, but to me it seems that almost nobody plays the QoT. Approximately in 1 in 10 games (mostly with 6 players) I find another guy/gal playing the QoT, which is in plain contrast to this official statistic:

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/demigods/graphs/

(Filter by All, Graph by Games)

According to these numbers, one should encounter a QoT in almost every 2nd 6-player game (to be exact, the probability is 43.5%).

How are your perceived percentages of QoT players and which strategy do they usually play?

The AI stats are recorded as well.

That makes up for the high usage because the AI seems to choose the character completely random => 1/8 of all AI matches.

Pod!

A.I. stats seem to be part of the explanation, thanks, but I'll ask my question once again, since nobody is giving me a straight answer:

How are your perceived percentages of QoT players and which strategy do they usually play?

E.g. in 2 out of 5 6-player games you encountered one QoT player (30 players -> 2 QoTs -> 6,66%)

Btw, I know all about the QoT, I play her myself all the time.

QoT is seriously gimped skill wise... You need to be a good player to make her strong (she is a v.good demigod imo) but you also need a good team on your side even if you are a good player. Her AOE/building killing skills are insane and her support is excellent but without a good team... she is so gimped as she relies on her teammates to do the tanking/damage. Compared to Sedna who at late levels is practically unkillable (huge +hps and priests), the QoT is uber squish.

I will not go QoT unless I am stacking completely or I know the other players on my team are competent. I have seen other queens go minion build (I myself go a more aggressive shield/thorns build) but this is still gimped late game. In late game, any 1v1 encounter I have I just run off.

Please buff/balance/tweak QoT a bit. Her skills are very lacking.

I think i've seen 3 this tournament, though all 3 of them were flipping amazing.

I think you just don't see her much in public game due to the fact that she's a support character, and thus requires teammates for maximum effectiveness. Most players would prefer to count on their own skills instead of someone elses. Examples of this are why it's so hard to find Medics in TF2 public games, buff/heal priests in Ragnarok Online, and heal-specced priests wandering around in WoW.

Sorry, I am not sure how I can ask my question any more explicit. I'll underline the important part:

How are your perceived percentages [%] of QoT players and which strategy do they usually play?

Please do not post how strong/weak/imba/whatever the QoT is, just post the percentage, thanks.

I've played 8 or 9 games in this pantheon, and have only team up with a QOT once (it was IA by the way, so we horribly lost)

Finally.

Thanks gnanyop.

Mmm. I've played with a couple...Maybe in 15% of my 2v2 games? They're really, specacularly rare.

Qot Only has 3 valid skills. It isn't surprising people don't use her very often. It doesn't take many players long to go "Hmm, I tried shamblers, and they didn't work, what else is there... oh my god, only spikes, spikes, and shield? Geez."

Rarely see 'em. The ones I do see seem to play a strategy called "run the hell away" unless they have good backup, then it becomes "add a bit of damage and try to look scary."

Playing against the AI before going online prolly dissaudes even more people from playing her when they realize that the sight of her sets off their internal "easy kill" alert no matter the situation.

Thanks, pseudomelon.

Zechnophobe, may I ask if you read what I wrote already 3(!) times in this thread?

If YES, why do you not understand my question?

If NO, why do you post here?

PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE IF ALL YOU DO IS WHINE. TYVM.

According to these numbers, one should encounter a QoT in almost every 2nd 6-player game (to be exact, the probability is 43.5%).

How are you calculating this? Your question is a little flawed IMO.

Those stats show, that demigods make 61006 total appearances in game.

Of those 61006 appearances, only 4285 are from QoT, a lot less than 10%. How did you work out that you should see a QoT 43.5% of the time?

There are no exact figures of exactly how many games there are, how many are 3v3, how many have DGs double, tripled, quadrupled up. So you cannot adjust for those factors. If you are making some quasi-statistical adjustment by dividing 61006 by 6 (players in game), then creating a percentage from that for the total of 4285 for QoT, then your math is very flawed! As the QOT figure would also need to be adjusted.

By that measure then there is an almost 100% chance that UB and Regulus will be in a match. I certainly have played matches without them.

The probability is fairly straightforward that a slot will be filled on average by the following DG :

Erebus	7508	12.31
Oak	7437	12.19
QoT	4285	7.02
Regulus	9776	16.02
Rook	7049	11.55
Sedna	7175	11.76
TB	7822	12.82
UB	9954	16.32
	61006

So each slot will have the probability to see a QoT take it 7% of the time. To actually calculate what that means for a 6 slot game is far beyond what I can be bothered to work out. However, you cannot simply say it is 6 x 7%. The probability is that you have 6 chances at a 7% outcome, likely meaning that you will not see it as often.

I have worked it out now :

You have a roughly 1 in 15 chance of seeing QoT in a slot. So with 6 slots you end with a 3861089 in 11390625 chance of seeing the QoT. This roughly makes a chance of 34% of seeing QoT.

However, this does not account that there is a trend that more recently less players have been using QoT, due to an established player base and she is deemed weaker so less players use her.

Wow, Sinzer. I really did not expect such a sophisticated response.

Thanks a lot for you expertise in probability calculations, it's been a long time since I learned that stuff in school. I simply calculated the average probability for a QoT per slot and multiplied it by 6, with the numbers from that day, thus resulting in 43.5%.

Still, a naive interpretation of your result means that you should encounter a QoT in every 3rd 6-player game, which seems much higher than my observed percentage. I thought about it for a while and your "trend" explanation seems to be true: Your calculated QoT percentage per slot (7.02%) is already significantly lower than my calculated QoT percentage from 3 days ago (7.25%).

I also think that everyone tests the QoT at least once (maybe against AIs) before choosing a favourite Demigod. Together with the random AIs in some games, this might add up to the official stats.

It's just that when you look at these graphs and see the QoT's bar is almost half as high as Regulus' bar or the Unclean Beast's bar, you get the impression that there should be much more QoTs around.

Those statistic assume that the presence of a QoT is mutually independent of what goes into the other slots. I am far less likely to take a QoT or Reg or TB or Sedna if my team does not not already have a tank of some sort. Further, for Pantheon games, QoT can only go into half of those slots.

Yes, but the data provided is based on choices people have made, so it's already been taken into account... assuming the majority of people aren't stupid.

Anyway, assuming the chance for a single QoT to be found in any one game (which means out of 10 slots too, which would be higher than 6 slots) is 7.02%, then the chance for a QoT to be present out of 6 slots is (using the Bernoulli probability formula):

k (successes) = 1

n (attempts) = 6

Probability(1 success out of 6 attempts) = (6C1) * 0.0702^1 * (1-0.0702)^(6-1) = 0.2927...

So, about 29.27%, assuming I didn't make any brain farts. That's the probability for only a single QoT to be found in one of the slots. The probability for two in one game is approximately 5.52%.

Quoting CosMoe,

reply 18

Thanks, pseudomelon.

Zechnophobe, may I ask if you read what I wrote already 3(!) times in this thread?

If YES, why do you not understand my question?

If NO, why do you post here?

PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE IF ALL YOU DO IS WHINE. TYVM.

I did read them, and I did not think it important to limit my input to the community by it. You may feel that being the OP somehow entitles you to some amount of control of the responses in the thread, but you would be wrong, and your constant need for validation by having people conform to your request seems petty, so I have unabashedly ignored it.

Am I coming in clearly? I do so hate it when I fail to communicate.

My observations of Queen of thorns from the last pantheon: Almost nobody plays her, and more than half of those who play her, don't have the foggiest idea how to use her. First skill shamblers or AoE thorns, and then going for the middle flag at level 1.. There might be some good QoT players, but they are rare. She is really strong support demigod, but alone she's pretty useless.

Zech, I don't think what Cosmoe is saying is petty at all. Hes just trying to focus the thread on its original purpose, which was to investigate a possible discrepency between recorded and actual queen usage. Theres something to be said for forum organization, so queen's effectiveness, or lackthereof, would probably be better discussed in its own thread. The view that "I can post whatever I want whenever I want!!!!" is childish. Certainly you can, but whether or not you should is another matter entirely.

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Queen of Thorns - Number of Games Played

A Personal Observation