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Star Wars The Old Republic: Great, or Horrendously Awful

By on June 23, 2009 3:42:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsExternal Link

I'm sure many of you have heard of the eagerly awaited Star Wars: The Old Republic, a MMO created by BioWare and LucasArts, which claims to bring a new element to MMO gameplay. Story.

So they say. Now, I don't know if I'm the only one, but has anyone else noticed the creative bankruptcy of this game?

The clone, sorry, Republic Soldiers. The Clone Wars Era Nu-Class Attack Shuttle, no sorry, I meant the vehicle used by the Sith to attack the Jedi temple. The evil Imperials! ...who came 3000 years before the Galactic Empire, which suceeded the Old Republic. The Pellaeon Class Star Destroyers, whoops, I meant the Sith Battleships.

 

Even the story:

Those gol-durned sith are back! We gotta go kill em again! Which we already did only a couple of years before! And a couple of yeasr before that! And a couple of years before that! Oh wait, they attacked Coruscant? Again? Again? And guess who's blockading! That's right, those cursed Mandalorians! Who got almost annihilated as a culture a couple of years ago, after kicking the crap out of the Republic! The Republic apparently decided those silly mandalorians learned their lesson, and let the society that glassed multiple planets be unmonitered. That makes sense. And the Republic also decided to leave Corusant unguarded because, well, after all the Sith are meeting at Alderaan for peace, and those Sith are so trustworthy! They're definitely people of their word, so let's leave the GALACTIC CAPITAL unguarded! Oh yes, and the Jedi Temple gets razed. Again. And apparently they decide to rebuild it looking the exact same way it did before it was destroyed...?

Cases in point:

Clones/Republic Special Forces

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a Star Wars: Old Republic Era
Republic Special Forces Trooper

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are clone troopers. Obvious?
I understand their are only so many ways to make full body armor.
But seriously?

 

Old Republic Sith Battleships

 

Legacy Era Pellaeon Class Star Destroyers (Legacy era is approximately 100 years after the movies.)

 

 

So there we are. The reasons not to be excited about star wars: the old crapublic.

Oh right, don't forget about Mr. Darth Malek ripoff.

 

+13 Karma | 62 Replies
June 23, 2009 10:42:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I really hope the combat is similar to KOTOR's with all those cool block/parry/attack animations.  I don't want an attack to hit me, do no damage, and have the word "block" appear above my head.  That's boring and overdone.  Hell, I wouldn't mind if this were a multiplayer KOTOR.  I just don't want this be a WoW ripoff.

June 23, 2009 10:45:34 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@thingamabob: UNfortunately, the problem with Star Wars is that the movies are a tiny, tiny bit of the entire Star Wars culture and story. The EU is the actual meat of the franchise, and that's what fills up all of the main money making of Star Wars. Granted, it's mostly tied into the movies in that the same characters from the movies are occasionally in them, but really, Star Wars started out as a movie franchise, but it has transcended that. Sometimes I feel as though LucasArts has forgotten that fact. I'll admit that I'm a Star Wars geek, I have every piece of Star Wars literature produced on my computer, and I could answer any question put to me, which leaves me as a bit of a Star Wars purist. But really, when LucasArts tries to rehash similar ideas in order to lure a wider audience in, it's doing itself a disservice. We've had Jedi Outcast, Jedi Knight, Tie Fighter, X-Wing, and many other games that have some links to the movies, but they are only superficial and are never part of the story. The entire Jedi fillintheblank series was based around Kyle Katarn, who was unheard of. A brand new character, a brand new plot, and brand new story. There are precedents of LucasArts branching out and trying new things. For something as massive and new as a MMO (or would it be an MMO, it sounds better that why, i guess), it's surprising to see them sticking themselves in a rut, and not trying a new thing, based on their already enormous and loyal fanbase, as well as the previous resounding success of Star Wars: Galaxies (which unfortunately they dropped).

I guess it all comes from being spoonfed I suppose. Instead of allowing new ideas and letting the consumer decide, LucasArts seems to prefer to handfeed us their idea and treat their fans almost as ignorant and lure them along by the nose.
And I should probably be less judgemental of the continuity errors.

Oh and also, the problem with your idea with the Pellies, is that the Legacy era Empire has no relation to the Sith whatsoever, until the Sith took it over, which was long after the introduction of the Pellaeon class, so it is highly improbable that a Jedi sympathetic and actually good Empire would try and use Sith influences (considering the fact that their ruling family is almost certianly descended from the Fels and the Solos, and because their ruling family are Jedi. Well, Imperial Knights, but same thing.)

It's also irking that even though their are fascinating unheard of eras in Star Wars, like the Hundred Year Darkness, which was a long existing time in which the Sith owned the Republic and everything was crappy (they even had a dark age), LucasArts decided to just make a whole new era from scratch, rather than flesh out preexisting eras with plenty of room for embellishment.

My fingers are tired. And me too, I've been up since 6.

 

June 26, 2009 4:09:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Would you want to use a revolutionary war musket, or an M16?
How about a Model T ford, or a M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank?

DUDE! I would totally go 1 on 1 against a jedi if you gave me a musket

June 26, 2009 4:19:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Ehh, I hate MMO's. But I expect this one will be above average, simply due to the fact that you really can't screw up starwars, short of trying to make the science work (midichlorians = )

June 26, 2009 4:24:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pseudomelon,
Ehh, I hate MMO's. But I expect this one will be above average, simply due to the fact that you really can't screw up starwars, short of trying to make the science work (midichlorians = )

LOL have you ever heard of Star Wars Galaxies....teehee

June 26, 2009 4:28:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Granolan2021,

LOL have you ever heard of Star Wars Galaxies....teehee

Yeah... believe me, you *can* screw up a Star Wars game... big time.

June 27, 2009 11:08:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah you can. Ever heard of Lego Star Wars? Best. Game. Ever. Lego Star Wars II was the best. Game. Ever.
Then they bundle them together and update the first game to make it awesome win too, and ONLY RELEASE IT FOR GAME SYSTEMS!
What about us computer people who can't afford a next gen console? Damn you! DAMN YOU!
Now I will never get my Lego Star Wars awesomeness.

 

Ah well, now I'm just ranting. And it *zziiit* just *ziit* triggered *ziiit* my *ziiit* OW *ziiit* shock collar *ziit*

 

 

 

*ZIIIIT*

June 27, 2009 4:45:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am looking forward to playing and enjoying TOR.   ...  Baaaaaaa

 

Seriously though...  I am.

June 27, 2009 5:23:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Eh.  I have a thing against MMOs in general.  I just don't like monthly fees, I guess.

 

That aside, here's what I think about TOR:

I agree with the people who said that it can't possibly have a good story because of the nature of an MMO.  Good stories (ALL stories that I can think of, actually) require two things to define it: a beginning and an end.  The stuff in between makes up the story.  MMOs can't have definite ends; that would be self defeating and a really stupid business decision.

And this whole "THE SITH HAVE RANSACKED CORUSCANT!!! O NOEZ!!!!" thing is just downright dumb.  The great thing about the KOTOR games was that it referenced specific goings on that actually either occured or could have occured in that given time frame.  I'm a Star Wars buff, so I'm pretty familiar with the expanded universe stuff (up to a point; I didn't really care for the Yuuzahn Vong stuff and beyond).  In KOTOR, when they mentioned Exar Kun and all that, I knew what was going on.  It made for a more immersive experience.  The premise for this MMO, by comparison, is just rediculous.

 

Oh well.  This doesn't really affect me, I'm not gonna get it anyways, evern if it was good.

June 28, 2009 12:23:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You no like Yuuzhan Vong SennKS? Why?

Quoting SennKS,

And this whole "THE SITH HAVE RANSACKED CORUSCANT!!! O NOEZ!!!!" thing is just downright dumb.  The great thing about the KOTOR games was that it referenced specific goings on that actually either occured or could have occured in that given time frame.  I'm a Star Wars buff, so I'm pretty familiar with the expanded universe stuff (up to a point; I didn't really care for the Yuuzahn Vong stuff and beyond).  In KOTOR, when they mentioned Exar Kun and all that, I knew what was going on.  It made for a more immersive experience.  The premise for this MMO, by comparison, is just rediculous.

I'm glad I'm not alone in my love for continuity and stuff in Star Wars fitting together.

 

June 28, 2009 1:53:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So I guess you hated the new Star Trek movie then.... what with the whole continuity thing getting totally FUBARed.   

Then again... maybe you hate Star trek because you like Star Wars.  Personally, I like both and I think that it's ok to recreate a franchise every now and then to keep it fresh.  That being said, I know alot of you are complaining that TOR is just a rehash of what has already been done.  But... ahhh... I don't really care. 

June 28, 2009 9:02:55 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I was SO excited about this game, right until I saw it was an MMO.

June 29, 2009 4:01:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting FrostMage,
So I guess you hated the new Star Trek movie then.... what with the whole continuity thing getting totally FUBARed.   

Then again... maybe you hate Star trek because you like Star Wars.  Personally, I like both and I think that it's ok to recreate a franchise every now and then to keep it fresh.  That being said, I know alot of you are complaining that TOR is just a rehash of what has already been done.  But... ahhh... I don't really care. 

I haven't seen the new Star Trek movie, but I think the concept is great. I'm not a fan of Star Trek; I don't hate it, I'm just not interested, but this movie is doing a good thing: breathing life into a dying franchise.

The Old Republic is not revitalizing Star Wars. Star Wars is doing fine, unlike Steve Jobs (who is actually on the upswing), and doesn't need to be revitalized.

 

June 29, 2009 5:11:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, maybe Bioware aren't trying to revitalize anything.  They're just trying to make a cool game.

 

Just a thought...

June 30, 2009 12:55:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You no like Yuuzhan Vong SennKS? Why?

NOTE: If you're into this sort of stuff, there ARE spoilers for the NJO series, as well as stuff that happens later. You have been warned.

[Rant on]

1. By the end of the series, the Jedi were all like, "Eh, the ends justify the means." Retarted.  That's not how a Jedi is supposed to think.  It goes against almost everything a Jedi is supposed to stand for; separates them from the Sith.

2. They had Jacen Solo, who's a total WUSS, be the hero of the series by reaching "total Force balance." Um, wut? (He later became a Sith named Darth Caedus, and was still a huge wuss; which sort of, y'know, busts the whole "Force balance" thing)

3. (This was my biggest beef BY FAR) They killed Chewie.  FUCKING STUPID!!!!  Yeah, I get it, there's supposed to be losses and stuff, but you can't do that!  Kill off somebody else, like, say, Wedge Antilles; it achieves the same effect without being a huge asshole.  3PO said it best: "Let the Wookie win."

So I guess you hated the new Star Trek movie then.... what with the whole continuity thing getting totally FUBARed.

No, I saw the Star Trek movie and rather liked it.  But you see, that is completely different from what Bioware is doing to Star Wars.  The Star Trek movie was a reboot; it set up a completely different timeline from the originals and as such doesn't actually effect what happened in that universe.  It didn't "totally FUBAR" the continuity as you say, it created a whole different continuity.  The events surrounding TOR have been created for the sole purpose of creating this bumfuck MMO, not the other way around.  A good game serves the story it tells, whereas this "story," which is completely asinine, is meant to serve the MMO.  It is this fact that has already doomed the "story-telling" aspect of TOR that they're touting to suck.

[Rant off]

Whew.  I'mma gonna go make me a sammich.

June 30, 2009 6:31:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SennKS,

1. By the end of the series, the Jedi were all like, "Eh, the ends justify the means." Retarted.  That's not how a Jedi is supposed to think.  It goes against almost everything a Jedi is supposed to stand for; separates them from the Sith.

2. They had Jacen Solo, who's a total WUSS, be the hero of the series by reaching "total Force balance." Um, wut? (He later became a Sith named Darth Caedus, and was still a huge wuss; which sort of, y'know, busts the whole "Force balance" thing)

3. (This was my biggest beef BY FAR) They killed Chewie.  FUCKING STUPID!!!!  Yeah, I get it, there's supposed to be losses and stuff, but you can't do that!  Kill off somebody else, like, say, Wedge Antilles; it achieves the same effect without being a huge asshole.  3PO said it best: "Let the Wookie win."

 

1. Well, for the first part of the war the Jedi sat around with their heads in the sand imitating ostriches while the rest of the galaxy burned. They didn't even go to the rescue of their entire academy class when the praxeum was attacked! Since their method of doing nothing because we're too scared of being wrong got a few trillion killed, there was little else to do but fight back.

But they never thought that the ends justify the means. The entire subplot of Alpha Red raised that question, along with Zonama Sekot. With Alpha Red, they could've annihilated the Vong, but they felt it was wrong. In that situation, they did not choose the ends over the means, no matter the cost. Another example is with Zonama Sekot. They went there only as a last resort, and they didn't even try to pressure Sekot into helping them. They let Sekot decide, because they knew that again, the ends do not justify the means, and that forcing Sekot to end the war might work, it would corrupt Sekot and themselves.

2. Well, Jacen was a massive wuss in the beginning of the Vong War. He was way too critical and self destructive to be of any use. However, Traitor (Matt Stover, best Star Wars author) provided a very intricate and understandable evolution to Jacen's character, and it detailed and showed exactly what happened to Jacen and why it changed him so much, along with his view of the force. (Vergere is NOT a sith. God, why are many people so thick, especially authors!?)

3. Yeah, killing Chewie did suck. I always liked him, but his death did have a purpose. The purpose: Anakin. Without Chewie's death, and the resulting phsycological trauma inflicted on Anakin, he would not have become the hero and protagonist he needed to be. He needed the catalyst of Chewie's death in order to set him on the path to recognizing his own power and responsibility.

Oh and they did kill off others too. Borsk, Ganner, Anakin, almost Jacen, Coruscant, multiple species, you name it.

Rant Warning

And Legacy of the Force (LoTF, or as some fans call it: LOLWTF?) isn't too good of a character reference. Pretty much every single character in that series acted completely unlike themselves. It was like having a dyslexic ADHD child on meth write a fanfiction. Wait, bad example. All of Karen Travesty's books are fanfiction. The Jacen in LoTF is unlike any Jacen from the Swarm War, the Yuuzhan Vong War, the Corellian Trilogy, the Jedi Knights series; well, any other book that had Jacen in it. It's sad too, because he was such a great character who got raped TO DEATH in LoTF.

End Rant Warning

Star Wars really should have ended with NJO, and every other effort after the end of the series should have been devoted to fleshing out other, less touched on parts of Star Wars.

Come on, it's hard not to read the last few pages of Luceno "The Finisher"'s Unifying Force, and not have such a sense of finality and peace.

 

June 30, 2009 9:23:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

NJO just didn't do it for me really.  It lacked the Star Wars-ness that was present in the Thrawn books and the X-Wing series.  Don't get me wrong, it had some good parts.  I especially liked when Ganner went down like a huge badass.  It just seems to me that NJO was a turning point in Star Wars continuity; like it sent everything into a spiral.  It's hard to explain.  You're probably right when you said it should have stopped with NJO.  Seems like everything after was just kinda forced (pun intended ).

So yeah.  This MMO is gonna suck.

July 1, 2009 4:41:41 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hey, but if it does suck from the beginning, maybe there's a hope that the next batch of New Game Enhancements endorsed by Lucasarts will actually improve the title!

My next big hope in MMO genre is actually Mortal Online.

SW:TOR seems too much like a classic "done to death" MMORPG, with an abundance of scripting involved (and in my experience, overuse of scripting makes MMO worlds seem fake and small.

What would be great is a gameplay departure from the "tried and true boring" philosophy, such as complete control over your character (no combat rolls, just twitch fighting with maybe lock on feature). Think Jedi Knight II style combat with unlockable combos and abilities.

Add in a skill system where you can build your character according to *your* vision, not the vision of the developers, and you can limit the story to "It's Star Wars, go play!" as far as I am concerned.

But SW is too big of a cash cow franchize... the "please the uneducated masses" mentality is nigh impossible to get around in such cases.

July 1, 2009 8:19:19 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Star wars TOR will rock!!  baaaaaaaaa

July 1, 2009 8:46:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When I first heard about SW:TOR, I was ecstatic about the game, I loved both the kotors and I wanted to see what the post-kotor 2 republic would be like.  Then I looked at the game and found out it was an MMO .

I hope this game flops so bioware will actually make a kotor 3.

July 1, 2009 1:04:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I hope this game flops so bioware will actually make a kotor 3.

Agreed.  I want to know what happened to Revan when he went into the Unknown Regions to fight the "True Sith."

July 1, 2009 3:01:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Me too. They sort of left it hanging.

I'd have to say that the second knights was my favorite, although the first was great just for the laughs.

"Down you go!"

 

July 1, 2009 3:49:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd have to say that I like KOTOR1 better than the second, though the second was still stellar.  The second one would have been a lot better if it hadn't been rushed.  I hear that a lot of stuff got left out (a whole sidestory about HK-47, for instance).  This MMO could royally muck it all up...

July 1, 2009 8:57:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The MMO is set 300 years after those events... so how can it muck it up?  I don't see how you are comming to this conclusion.

July 2, 2009 5:35:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It can muck it all up the same way SWG managed to do it... you ended up with the "A New Hope" setting where you couldn't move from all the lightsaber fights breaking out in the streets.

It was the Force Sensitive fiasco which ultimately ruined SWG, not NGE. New Game Enhancements came only after Sony tried to bring back subscribers by opening the Jedi/Dark Jedi class to everyone... but prior to that the same unbalanced profession was the main source of complaints about the game. First it was too hard to unlock, then it was too easy and you had too many Jedi around, then they were underpowered because they couldn't kick everyone's arse in two moves, then they were overpowered... gah.

So the good thing about TOR is that at least it is set in an era where you really couldn't move from all the Jedi and Sith prancing about. They can still muck it up though. Plenty of ways to do that. They could box the player in too much, the storyline concept could cause an unintentional "moving on rails" effect, there could be the Mythic "ping-pong" effect with game classes, where the nerf/buff bat strikes classes in turn and never manages to make them balanced. And lets not forget that Jedi/Sith are going to be THE most numerous class... to the point of making it hard to find other classes for grouping.

I can already see the flamewars between the Jedi/Sith and the rest of the community over balancing. That, at least, is going to be fun to watch.

 

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