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I feel bad :(

By on June 17, 2009 6:58:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

woca

Join Date 02/2008
+21
it hurts me to illegally download music and i don't mind dishing out the cash right now. so what do you think the best service is? I want to get a decent amount of music so i was looking for a monthly subscription fee one but I don't know how that works for most of them. Apparently Zune's you can pay for 15 bucks a month but once subscription ends you lose the music. I'm guessing that's how most work. Then you can also buy songs to keep but I'm guessing that's the same as Itunes 1 dollar per song. I don't know how rhapsody functions


TL:DR
feel bad, want to pay for music, don't want to lose songs, want a good deal

 

 

any suggestions?

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June 17, 2009 7:31:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is never gonna happen. Record companies are reluctant to innovate and pretty much wanna keep sucking us dry. And with the money they have for lobbying they will be able to do that long after we are dead. Don't feel bad to download music. I will probably get flamed for this, don't care. The music business needs a revolution, and till they see that we are on the losing end.

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June 17, 2009 7:46:11 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

My post seems to have been eaten by the forum pigeons, so I'll paste it from my cache.  My apologies if this turns out to be a double post...

 

Oddly, I've been looking into downloading music lately as well.  Albeit for different reasons.  I don't illegally download. 

I have, however, tired of having to go through CDs and DVDs at the store only to find that what I'm looking for isn't available, has been sold out or is misplaced somehow.  That or buying one online and having a scratched item arrive weeks after I was expecting it.  CDs and DVDs are also bulky and slow.  It takes some effort to rip everything to my MP3 players so I can have my music with me.

Looking through the online maze, it's not easy to swim through all of the offerings and find a service that fits.  So many are offering free MP3s, but the value vs. cost is about right for those.  Some appear to want to bundle trojan DRM within the downloads.  Nice.

I'm leaning heavily toward Napster.  Evidently, at $5.00 per month, you get 5 downloads and can buy more along the way. That might put the price at a slight premium, since most of the songs I want go for less than $1.00. On the other hand, they include "unlimited" streaming so you can try before you buy.

That's in theory though.  I haven't tried them so I can't say that they'll deliver what they promise.  Time will tell before long, though.

Perhaps someone who's familiar with Napster can chime in?

 

Edit - Napster claims to now be DRM free.  This is evidently after having dealt with DRM and finally rejecting it.  Anyone with experience care to comment?

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June 17, 2009 7:57:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Pandora's a nice one, if you're not looking for specific songs and just want to hear something good. The system is pretty hit-or-miss, but they have just about everything.

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June 17, 2009 8:12:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The two services that I could recommend as alternatives to itunes are 7digital and amazon.com. I use 7 digital and the main thing I like about it is that almost all its MP3's are high quality(320k). The other good aspect about 7 digital is that you can re-download your music. Unfortunately you can only re-download it 3 times before having to buy it again(I think thats how it goes). Then for amazon.com their music service works the same way, however you only have 1 download per purchase. I haven't used the amazon.com music service, so I can't comment from experience on it. However I've heard good things about the service from people who have used it. I also don't use subscriptions services to buy my music, so I also can't comment from experience on them. Well I hope what I've said has helped and good luck finding good music.

ps: Sadly I do agree twifightDG. Unfortunatly record companies are trying to suck us dry with generic bad. I also find it really idiotic that I can only download a song I purchased a limited number of times. Having DRM in music is also a terrible idea, because it's just cumbersome and doesn't work. Overall I think the music industry is in need of a huge wake up call, and the only way to make them listen it to make them feel it in their pocket books.

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June 17, 2009 8:15:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i'm leaning towards sending doantions to the band and just illegally downloading then

 

i dont want to pay the middle man at all in this and apparently there is no good system

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June 17, 2009 8:31:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sometimes, I'm so very glad that I'm an unscrouplous pirate. I've never even considered "legitimate" sources and from the sound of things, I wouldn't like it. I'm opposed just to digital downloads overall just because "that company may possibly maybe tank one day sometime" - the idea of paying money for something that will forever be gone if I format or change computer or, arguably worse, stop subscribing is just.. completely alien.

And then they wonder why people become pirates.

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June 17, 2009 8:33:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I hear there's stores that sell CDs still..that's like a disc with the music on it and you can do w/e you want with them!

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June 17, 2009 8:36:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah... I always yell at my parents for doing that, and when I ask for an album they'll say they've already got it downloaded... (not illegally, but it still feels like it's wrong somehow) *sigh* that makes me sooo irritated...

Anyway, as for suggestions, look up your friends and see if you  can burn any of the CD's they already have.

 

Koda0 (^)

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June 17, 2009 8:43:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i'd just like to reward the musicians, but i'm also not trying to go broke

 

 

as for the smartass replies, i'm not paying 10 dollars for a cd when i only want one song

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June 17, 2009 8:49:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting woca,
[...]

as for the smartass replies, i'm not paying 10 dollars for a cd when i only want one song
Down boy, down! How're we supposed to know you only want one song out of an entire album? I tend to prefer whole albums, myself.

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June 17, 2009 8:54:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Luckmann,

Quoting woca, reply 9[...]

as for the smartass replies, i'm not paying 10 dollars for a cd when i only want one songDown boy, down! How're we supposed to know you only want one song out of an entire album? I tend to prefer whole albums, myself.

now you know

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June 17, 2009 9:00:37 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In that case Itunes and Amazon allow for one-song downloads for 99 cents. I use both, but I like Amazon's better because it just downloads the mp3, and Itunes goes straight to the Ipod format.

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June 17, 2009 9:05:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Pirating and sending donations to the band may make you feel better but what your doing is still illegal (as is speeding). lol. The band will never know what your doing unless you tell tham and that would be idiotic.

So pirate away and forget those donations

Me...i cannot afford buying cds (10-15$ a pop * 100+ cds will break you eventauly unless of course money is not an issue)

However bands that i really like that release albums that i really like i will buy them (Slipnot and A7x are good ex here)

Check this site out: www.bmgmusicservice.com You can get albums REALLY cheap and legaly. However their selection is not too great...

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June 17, 2009 9:11:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Derek06,
Pirating and sending donations to the band may make you feel better but what your doing is still illegal (as is speeding). lol. The band will never know what your doing unless you tell tham and that would be idiotic.

So pirate away and forget those donations

Me...i cannot afford buying cds (10-15$ a pop * 100+ cds will break you eventauly unless of course money is not an issue)

However bands that i really like that release albums that i really like i will buy them (Slipnot and A7x are good ex here)

Check this site out: www.bmgmusicservice.com You can get albums REALLY cheap and legaly. However their selection is not too great...
Yes, but donating and not donating is the line between immoral and just plain illegal. Everything that is illegal isn't de facto immoral. By "illegally" downloading music, you're doing something technically illegal - but by donating money, you "de-immoralize" the action.

Arguably, of course.

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June 17, 2009 9:24:40 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

WARNING: LONG POST

Sorry if it sounds like an ad; I tend to get a little excited when I'm explaining things.

I've been a member of eMusic for a few years now, and have generally been pleased. They offer a subscription service where you pay a certain amount of money each month for a limited number of downloads, with an option to buy "booster packs" of additional downloads. The new "Premium" plan is 50 downloads for $20, which works out to be about 40¢ per song; much lower than what iTunes and Amazon charge. The downloads don't roll over, though, so you lose any that you don't use within 30 days.

All songs are in unprotected MP3 format; quality varies but it's unusual to see anything below 128kbps. Their catalog is fairly large, too. It's exclusively indie-label stuff, but that's a plus for some people.

Unfortunately, they're doing a big service downgrade in July in exchange for access to Sony's 2-years-and-older back catalog. It's not as big a deal for new customers, as the biggest change is to kick the company's most loyal customers out of their older, cheaper plans, but they're also limiting the ability to re-download stuff you've bought. I also happen to think that the mere presence of Sony's crap on the site is a negative, as it adds the hassle of double-checking everything with the RIAA Radar, but if you're looking at Napster and the Zune thing then you probably don't care so much about that.

Amie Street is another option. I haven't used it yet, but it looks like another mostly indie-label site with an interesting business model. All songs on the site start out free, then rise in price (up to 98¢) as people download them. Their support FAQ says you're allowed to download up to 80 free songs in an 8-hour period, so you could theoretically grab huge piles of music as long as it's stuff no one else has found yet. (There's a way to browse only free stuff, too. I just checked.) They also let paying customers "REC" (recommend) a song and give store credit if that song gets popular and goes up in price.

All their music comes as unprotected MP3. Quality varies by album, but they claim to offer 256kbps VBR whenever possible. No idea how big their catalog is, though. As I said, I haven't used the site and only heard about it recently.

The place that's got me really excited, however, is Magnatune. They're the most artist- and consumer-friendly music store I've ever seen; it's downright stardockian. You have to buy full albums and the catalog is relatively small (they're actually a sort of non-exclusive record label), but there's no DRM, you can listen to the entire album before you buy, you can download files in multiple formats (MP3, OGG, lossless FLAC, cd-quality WAV), and the prices are low. Actually, the pricing is variable; you can pay as little as $5 for an album, but you can choose to pay extra to help support the artist. (They get half the money.)

They also offer a few subscription services. You can get a Streaming membership for $5/month that gets you unlimited music streaming and access to "exclusive podcasts", whatever those are. (You can actually stream every album for free, but they add a "You just listened to..." message after every track.) A Download membership costs $10/month and gets you the streaming stuff as well as unlimited downloads. You can also pay $250 for a lifetime download membership if you're rich/crazy/addicted to music. 

They also explicitly permit you to share 3 copies of anything you buy from them, because it helps bring in more customers and they can't really stop you anyway. You can also buy licenses if you need a soundtrack for a game or a film or one of those awful anime mashup videos that are always clogging up the u-tubes.

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June 17, 2009 10:12:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Luckmann,

Quoting Derek06, reply 13Pirating and sending donations to the band may make you feel better but what your doing is still illegal (as is speeding). lol. The band will never know what your doing unless you tell tham and that would be idiotic.

So pirate away and forget those donations

Me...i cannot afford buying cds (10-15$ a pop * 100+ cds will break you eventauly unless of course money is not an issue)

However bands that i really like that release albums that i really like i will buy them (Slipnot and A7x are good ex here)

Check this site out: www.bmgmusicservice.com You can get albums REALLY cheap and legaly. However their selection is not too great...Yes, but donating and not donating is the line between immoral and just plain illegal. Everything that is illegal isn't de facto immoral. By "illegally" downloading music, you're doing something technically illegal - but by donating money, you "de-immoralize" the action.
Arguably, of course.

 

what luckmann said. i'm donating cause i want them to get something for their work. i jsut ahve a problem with the 1 dollar per song, thats a ton. someone should sue ipod, allowing 30,000 songs on some ipods is suggesting that either every user has $30,000 or they are allowing a device to be filled with illegal things

 

of course thats unrealistic  and kinda doesnt make sense

 

but i guess my problem is i dont want to pay all the money, 1 dollar per song is a ton, but is it really? i pay 50 dollars for a game and hope to get at least 20 hours, usually around 100 if it was worth it, so thats a range of $2.5  for an hour of entertainment to $.50. then if i play 50 hours which is pretty good, thats a dollar per hour.i ending up paying $.40 for wow/hour with all fees, so that was good

so i'll round that to $.50/hour of entertainment because i think that seems to be a good value. with a 4 min song i can listen to it 15 times per hour. so .50 / 15 is roughtly $.03 to listen to a song once. So if i listen 100 times, its $3, which actually makes $1 a good deal. but cost also represents production costs. how much does it cost to make a song and how much time per person compared to a band? should that be included or should entertainment count. are games more entertaining, id say so. so maybe it should be 5 cents per hour instead of 40. music is also a bigger medium for most bands if everyone paid.

 

i need more info!!! anyone know so i can see i

 

 

so are songs really worth $1? who knows?  i say no.

 

are these comparisons legit? i don't know.

 

 

 

all i got out of this huge post was i dont know how much i should pay for a song

 

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June 17, 2009 10:40:31 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

i'd just like to reward the musicians, but i'm also not trying to go broke

In that case, do what matters most;

They don't expect a reward, they are recording a PRODUCT for sale.

If the price is too high then it means you can't afford it.

Just bought "Death Magnetic" from Metallica at 15.99$/CD (without *any* regrets, i must add), two concerts are scheduled for Montreal in September (Both were sold out in a matter of hours). Thing is, they too perform in studio (which most bands rent, btw) & on stage (the logistics necessary are mind staggering!). And they really were at the spearhead of the anti-plagiarism controversy by MP3 downloads for years. Times have changed since, but that doesn't mean any musicians can't at least receive some minimal money for their work.

The middle-man argument(s) may soon disappear by bandwidth feeds -- numerous solutions exist today -- which can very easily match consumers' needs. I-Pods are no cassette players or FM walkman anymore. Even at a tiny dollar per pop, who's to prove Cyanide (formatted to compression worst than digital mastering, in fact... which is playing right now in WinAmp on my PC) delivers a mere dime directly to Metallica, a quarter to some online service(s) and the rest to Warner for packaging & manufacturing?

The problem is not from artists, it's caused by organizations & companies created to exploit these talents for supplemental profits.

Value your music as much as you want, the reasoning and the song remains... the same.

Money in, money out.

 

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June 17, 2009 10:49:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you are saying they are selling a product and if i cant afford, too bad, but then say the problem sint the artist.

 

so why should they be punished that i cant affford if it's not their fault?

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June 17, 2009 10:51:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I would stick with cds which are dirt cheap now esp if you look at the weekly sales at HMV (atleast here in Vancouver). I like the artwork, lyrics, having physical collection, you don't lose your songs and I like listening to the album as a unit in the order that the artist chose (which is usually for a reason). Also, I prefer the sound quality.

I also buy songs online but usually these are the one good song on an otherwise crappy album so I don't want to pay for the whole thing. In these rare circumstances I use itunes because I was given a giftcard.

Ideally, I would like to buy a physical cd from the artist directly but I don't see too much of that.

Well, I doubt that helps you much but I find it a fascinating topic so I piped up anyways

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June 17, 2009 10:54:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Zyxpsilon,
i'd just like to reward the musicians, but i'm also not trying to go broke

In that case, do what matters most;

They don't expect a reward, they are recording a PRODUCT for sale.

If the price is too high then it means you can't afford it.

Just bought "Death Magnetic" from Metallica at 15.99$/CD (without *any* regrets, i must add), two concerts are scheduled for Montreal in September (Both were sold out in a matter of hours). Thing is, they too perform in studio (which most bands rent, btw) & on stage (the logistics necessary are mind staggering!). And they really were at the spearhead of the anti-plagiarism controversy by MP3 downloads for years. Times have changed since, but that doesn't mean any musicians can't at least receive some minimal money for their work.

The middle-man argument(s) may soon disappear by bandwidth feeds -- numerous solutions exist today -- which can very easily match consumers' needs. I-Pods are no cassette players or FM walkman anymore. Even at a tiny dollar per pop, who's to prove Cyanide (formatted to compression worst than digital mastering, in fact... which is playing right now in WinAmp on my PC) delivers a mere dime directly to Metallica, a quarter to some online service(s) and the rest to Warner for packaging & manufacturing?

The problem is not from artists, it's caused by organizations & companies created to exploit these talents for supplemental profits.

Value your music as much as you want, the reasoning and the song remains... the same.

Money in, money out.



 

Except that the band you mentioned is the biggest supporter of keeping those record those fat cats' pockets lined.   Mostly because they believe they should continue to get paid for having played one song once.  

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June 17, 2009 10:54:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Here's a mind-blowing concept; just because you can't afford it/don't want to pay for it, doesn't mean you get to steal it. 

/smartass enough for ya?

 

As for an actual useful reply, I would pick Amazon's service over iTunes any day.

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June 17, 2009 11:44:32 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Long post ahead, you have been warned.

$1 per song is about what you pay for a CD, so i have no problem paying that for just the one or two songs I'd actually listen to on the CD if it gets me out of paying $15 for the whole CD.

someone should sue ipod, allowing 30,000 songs on some ipods is suggesting that either every user has that much or they are allowing a device to be filled with illegal things

I have one of the older 30 gig pods, and it's only about 25% full with 1500+ songs on it - nearly all of them legally purchased through iTunes or ripped from CD in my possession, with the balance ripped from CDs I had at one point and no longer have for one reason or another. What got me hooked is both the massive selection available and the actual service itself. Probably half of what I have is music I'd either never heard of or forgot about until their recommendation system pointed it out. The only real down side is the 30 second previews, but that's what youtube is for

As for the massive 80 gig drives, my brother in law has nearly filled his, with legal music at that. Keep in mind that 30,000 assumes *average* song lengths, and doesn't include podcasts, videos, photo albums, etc. In his case it is full length symphonies, personal recordings and thesis work - he's working on his doctorate in music. One sympthony can be more than an hour long and fill more than a gig by itself.

For those about to point out I could lose my music to iTunes going away, I point out that your full collections could just as easily be wiped out by fire or natural disaster; insurance covers your computer, not the data on it. A full collection of CDs is about the only true insurance, and even then good luck proving how many you had.

The middle-man argument(s) may soon disappear by bandwidth feeds -- numerous solutions exist today -- which can very easily match consumers' needs. I-Pods are no cassette players or FM walkman anymore. Even at a tiny dollar per pop, who's to prove Cyanide (formatted to compression worst than digital mastering, in fact... which is playing right now in WinAmp on my PC) delivers a mere dime directly to Metallica, a quarter to some online service(s) and the rest to Warner for packaging & manufacturing?

I'm not sure what the actual breakdown on this is, as I'm more familiar with print than music; I assume it is fairly similar. What Warner is getting money for is marketing and risk. Sure, for Metallica the risk is minimal; they could record the band reading an instruction manual and probably make money. For a new or less popular band, it can be substantial.

It costs money to support the band while they write and record songs, or an author while he writes. The publisher gives them an advance (maybe 30-50k for a book, probably more for music) and they get a contract which gives the publisher much of the proceeds from the sale of the book/album. Once the work starts selling, the publisher keeps both its share and the artist's share until the advance is paid back. After that, the publisher gets a percent of the profits and the author collects their share as royalties. The important thing to know is that (for books anyway) about 90% of everything published doesn't sell enough for the author to ever get royalties.

What this means is that the artist is getting most of their income up front, whether the work sells well or not. The publisher is taking the risk that the work doesn't sell well enough that they recoup what they paid the artist (the break even point is well below the point where the artist starts getting royalties, but not as low as you'd think). The artist benefits by 1) getting enough money to make the work to begin with and 2) getting an assured income off the work. If they attempted to self-publish, they could make substantially more money, or they could not sell enough to cover what they spent making the work. It is less risky for the publisher, as they are making the same gamble on many bands at once. Some may fail, but their bottom line isn't dependant on any one work selling well as long as enough of them don't fail to cover the ones that do.

And they really were at the spearhead of the anti-plagiarism controversy by MP3 downloads for years.

This is a pet pieve of mine. Plagarism =/= piracy. Piracy is when people copy music without paying for it. Plagarism would be someone selling copies of Metallica's work and claiming it was their own. I'm fairly sure Metallica is concerned with the first of those issues much more so than the second.

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June 17, 2009 11:56:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

hey -  I was in the same boat.  I had alot of music illegally obtained.  I decided I did not want to be like that. I think you'll find, like I did, that you CAN find a service with a monthly fee, but then you are tempted to rip those files... and still be guilty of a crime if you do (even if you justify it by saying I paid my subscription)... generally, once your membership expires, you aren't legally entitled to those songs anymore.  The solution?  Buy your songs.  I like Amazon (NO DRM!!!).  I think you will find that if you use a service like pandora (FREE), you can still get all that music you loved.  I didn't think it would be like that, but you might be surprised like I was.  There are SO many options out there for free music now.  I haven't bought a song in about 3 months and I still have access to the latest and greatest. 

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June 18, 2009 12:35:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting woca,
you are saying they are selling a product and if i cant afford, too bad, but then say the problem sint the artist.

 

so why should they be punished that i cant affford if it's not their fault?

Getting close to marxism here.

 

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June 18, 2009 12:38:12 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i'd just like to reward the musicians

if you want to reward musicians, go to their concerts. they get more satisfaction out of 50,000 screaming fans than the number of cds they sell. most of the money you pay goes to the retail businesses anyway.

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