Exile: The Worst Map

By Krazikarl on June 12, 2009 11:12:45 PM from

The reason this map is terrible is that there is only one way that leads to the enemy citadel. That path is easily cut off and right next to their health crystal. I'll explain why this is HORRIBLE map design in story form:

The teams:

My team was Reg, Rook, Erebus, Oak

Their team was Reg (Mine/Snipe), Erebus (hard to kill assassin variation), UB (Spit), and TB (fire nuke)

My team absolutely was crushing the other team. We had at least twice as many kills as them, had giants, were pushing into their base, had all flags capped (except the one right at the entrance to their base and we got that eventually), were up war rank 10 to war rank 3 (!!), had an average of a level advantage on them, had a few creep upgrades (armor, damage), and were reasonably well item'd (I had a Mageslayer at level 9 for example).

And we lost. Badly.

They turtled at the chokepoint into their base. We couldnt really push into it very well. If we did we would hit mines and instantly be focus fired. Even if you lived you were going to get pegged with a Snipe too as well as nailed by the Erebus on the way out (and wouldnt get him in return due to all his evasion skills). It was nearly impossible to kill any of them because they were barely beyond their crystal (and most of them were attacking from range so they were really close to the crystal and an erebus right near a crystal is impossible to kill with his skills). While we had slows, we didnt have many stuns.

And this point the Reg just threw mines as quickly as possible into the choke (he might have had cooldown reduction stuff). Mana wasnt a problem because the health crystal is a short walk away. The TB was AoEing the creeps too, while the UB and Erebus were just focus firing us if anybody wandered in. It was impossible to approach without taking a mine, which meant you were slowed already (by that and maim), then you got grasped by the UB and you were quickly dead (either a Snipe or Erebus would finish you if you got away, and the Erebus is impossible to kill that close to their crystal).

We literally couldnt get any XP because our giants would kill their creeps before they got to us. They racked up HUGE XP and gold by AoEing at that choke. This means that they were gaining 4 levels to our 1 with ungodly gold. Eventually we pulled back figuring to let them out. No dice. They just kept sitting at that choke happily getting XP and gold while we got no XP and gold only from the gold ticks. There was no motivation for them to leave that choke and they werent stupid. Eventually they got up 5 levels with godly gear and my team (understandably) rage quit because it was just so stupid.

So yeah, that choke into the enemy base area is completely stupid and can be shut down WAY WAY WAY too easily by opposing DGs if they have the right builds. Mine Reg at that choke is just stupid if defending.

Basically I really recommend not playing this map since its just so poorly designed with that single choke right next to a health crystal design. I can think of a few basically unbeatable strategies on that map if you wanted to be really lame and the other team was foolish enough to buy catas and giants. Of course, I dont know how you are going to end a game on that map without buying giants if they are competent with that stupid crystal placement and the choke.

+8 Karma | 43 Replies

Crucible is a worse map than exile.

I've had the same experience on Exile. It was an awful game, but that can be avoided by skipping reinforcement upgrades in the future. The assymetric flag arrangement around the center is also pretty questionable, but it's quite possible to have your whole team swoop in suddenly and take the more distant crystal flag if that's the one you've gotta have. I really dislike the map, but don't think it's broken.

Crucible on the other hand...

Eventually they got up 5 levels with godly gear and my team (understandably) rage quit because it was just so stupid.

I totally forgot:

Hand that over to your team.

wow, just wow...Krazykarl + 1 for maintaining your cool in the face of so much snark..

I really enjoy the way this forum works. Someone makes a dumb post and 20 people jump on his face. Someone makes a smart post and the same 20 people jump on his face.

This is a smart post, people, stop jumping ^^

Two options -

1. Bottleneck maps are broken. Exile is a bottleneck map. Exile is broken.

or

2. The devs intentionally designed Exile to

a. Strip out dynamic strategies like ninja portal caps
b. Reverse winning team momentum
c. Negate the value of map control
d. Make every game with experienced teams a grind

And I'm seeing alot of the comments here pointing to option number 2? Are you people serious? Let's take giants out of the equation - You telling me it's all WAI when one team can sit in their base for 30 minutes with no map control, no flags, no grunts, no nothing but a health crystal, and not *necessarily* lose the game as a result? That's really a "the other team needs to learn to play" situation for you?

Crucible is less wrong than Exile because you can still ninja portals and the artifact shop isn't in home base. That said - both maps are broken, boring, and take too long to play. Carve some lanes in the face of Prison - give us another decent small map.

And devs, if you aren't seeing this inhouse (looking at average game times I feel like you have to be seeing this but w/e) please feel free to pm for a rousing set of 90 minute games on either map

Exile is broken. Artifact shop in your own base on a bottleneck map, wtf?

Yeah, at least Crucible doesn't have the artifact at the base. That's actually how we won after an hour of 2 Regulus spamming mines in front of their last fortress- they tried to get artifacts.

Kestrel; Very possibly. 2-The game is too much a game of king of the hill, a map that makes possible a turnaround is a good thing. 1-And stripping out portal control flags is not always a bad thing, having some opportunity to come back from an otherwise profound loss is important, In fact, it's lacking in most maps. 3-It did not negate the value of map control, honestly the losing team made poor use of their resources it seems to me. With both gold flags capped, it shouldn't have been much of a task to get a warpstones and attack from the rear. 4-A grind? I'm not sure what you're saying in your fourth point. A good team shouldn't have to fight hard like the defenders are in defending when in a losing situation? Or is it something else?

_Shadow: Probably to facilitate the possibility of a comeback.

@ ubersmurf - gonna edit your post a bit so I can address each point.

Kestrel; Very possibly.

1-The game is too much a game of king of the hill, a map that makes possible a turnaround is a good thing.

2-And stripping out portal control flags is not always a bad thing, having some opportunity to come back from an otherwise profound loss is important, In fact, it's lacking in most maps.

3-It did not negate the value of map control, honestly the losing team made poor use of their resources it seems to me. With both gold flags capped, it shouldn't have been much of a task to get a warpstones and attack from the rear.

4- A grind? I'm not sure what you're saying in your fourth point. A good team shouldn't have to fight hard like the defenders are in defending when in a losing situation? Or is it something else?

1. I'm absolutely in favor of shifts in momentum and turnarounds, especially between well-matched teams. Nothing makes me happier than sudden reversals and close games. But if the reversal isn't sudden, if the game isn't close, until a specific location in every match you play on a given map then you begin to suspect that it has less to do with your opponents suddenly gaining relative skill and more to do with the map.

2. interesting perspective - I would say portal flags allow crazy comebacks more often than they limit them. Any time I'm losing direct endgame confrontations on Cataract I'll be trying to ninjalock their portals instead - that option doesn't exist on Exile

3. Have you played Exile? I can't see this working, but I'm willing to let you try it

4. Grinding means that everything that happens is really slow. The OP is actually best-case-scenario - if teams are well-matched you can perpetuate this situation indefinitely. I've seen games on Exile and Crucible where the teams roll back and forth to each other's bottlenecks 5-6 times. The game never ends. As someone who prefers six 15 minute matchs to a single 90 minute match I'd like to see this fixed.

ok i had a 80 minute game on exile earlier, and that wasn't tne end of it... I had to catch a ferry. everyone had All Father's Rings. That really shouldn't be possible. Moving out the artifact shop is the least that needs to happen, though I do have to say I've had some awesome games on Exile.

3-Yes you can do it.

2-Unfortunately, most other players are aware of this too, when on the losing side of the match, are pretty conscientious about the portals, especially late game...or they are in my experience.

Given that levelling and gear are more determinants of your teams power and potential for victory, the way exile is set up, it's designed for a turnaround. No portal flags to be taken. Relics handy should you come to be able to afford them.

...

Quoting uberShade,

reply 6

Yeah, at least Crucible doesn't have the artifact at the base. That's actually how we won after an hour of 2 Regulus spamming mines in front of their last fortress- they tried to get artifacts.

Gawd, I remember having a Conquest Crucible match that was prolonged to 50 minutes because the other team just had ONE Mining/Marking Regulus (and a Tower Rook). The only reason why my side managed to finally break their final line and end the game when it did was because I was somehow able to gank the Regulus and then make a beeline for their portal flag while he was dead. Interestingly enough, though, they didn't make nearly as much money as my side did, spending all that time farming Giants, because my side had the kills as well as all the gold flags for that same duration. And while I was worried about the Regulus pulling something off that gets him to the artifact shop (like using Warpstone to bridge the Crucible gap), now that I think about it, his absense from the frontline probably would've gotten us the win, anyway.

Still isn't a sort of match I'd wish to relive again, though.

Exile and Crucible are indeed terrible, they're more suited for Fortress than Conquest. (still not balanced since easy mode Regulus just outranges the fortresses)

I've had some fun matches on Exile, though they're usually only fun in the beginning and middle of the game, once it's time to push, it becomes an enormous pain in the ass.

They need to remove the health crystals from the sides which turn it into a flag lock spam-fest. Artifact shop should be moved somewhere in the middle.

I didn't even know that one side gets a +15 health flag and another +15 mana flag. This needs to be changed.

I think the range of health crystal healing should be cut in half too, just to make it so they have to walk a little longer.

I like the health crystal setup. They can be strong, but they can also be deathtraps. I've seen dozens of demigods go hopefully to their deaths because they thought they could hold the crystal flag. The only way you can pull that off is capture locks.

No way, the worst map by far is a tie between prison and cataract. Prison because it's too wide open, and cataract because it's too easy to take/lose your main portals.

I prefer to play this map on Fortress Mode. Now that is fun.

Quoting andpancakes,

reply 15

I prefer to play this map on Fortress Mode. Now that is fun.

Thats actually a good point. Exile is really only a bad Conquest map. But then again, almost all custom games are Conquest.

I actually happen to like Exile except for the stupid chokes (OK, the asymmetry is a little annoying, but I can live with that). I think that the middle health crystals are actually well designed since you can often trap people in those corners.

In any case, the Exile asymmetry isnt as bad as the Cataract asymmetry where one side has the Gold/HP flags on the same side of the map and the other has them on different sides of the map. Thats a big deal if you have rooks involved.

Although incredibly cheap, erebus can teleport over the pit. Do that, grab the flag, lock it and run.

As someone above mentioned, also use Oak's last stand cheese.

Exile is the coolest looking, but worst designed map - I agree. That's one of the few maps where you should really only get the gold/exp/damage/armor bonus on the creeps and the rest of teh gold goes towards powering yourselves up. One of the worst parts of the map is that on teh other side of teh crystal, on teh choke, it's close enough to get health. It's like having a healthstone right in front of your tower as opposed to behind it.

Also, if you're fighting a mine happy reg, don't forget that your oak can buy some crappy summons and just run them over teh chokepoint to clear it.

I've had some fun matches on Exile, though they're usually only fun in the beginning and middle of the game, once it's time to push, it becomes an enormous pain in the ass.

Hi all (first post, oops)

True, you can really get stuck at the chokepoint, and run out of steam. I try to hold back my reinforcements, let them (I usually fight 2 opponents on Normal) get Priests, while I hold back mine, until I can unleash at least all the way up to Catas, but preferably Giants too.

This does require you cleaning out both lanes up to the chokepoint, first - but then this strategy has so far been enough to steamroll successfully *any* opposition to beyond the chokepoint, even if you cannot joint the melee yourself, you can support with Mist/Surge and take the occasional bite out of a defender. (I play Erebus and Oak mostly).

It's actually great fun to sit out their Priest as long as you can, while clearing those lanes. Against 2 Rooks, that's pretty exhilarating work.

As a practice map, especially against 2, it's one of the best maps for me, so far. Only got the game last week, but I am tottally addicted already.

Hope they come up with a map editor soon, though - I've made/modded maps for other games in the past, so I am really looking forward to that.

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Exile: The Worst Map