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Blood of the Fallen vs Mard's Hammer (Excel inside)

By on June 10, 2009 7:44:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Aroddo

Join Date 04/2009
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First, BotF is very good, especially for it's price. But how good is it really when compared to a strong starting dps equipment?

I was curious about how BotF would measure up against dps items and calculated around a bit with the help of the demigod calculator.

I used a level 1 UB as calcuation base and compared the different starting equipment variants.

Items used: Scale Mail, Banded Mail, Gaunlets of Brutality, Blood of the Fallen (Favor), Mard's Hammer (Assassin Favor)

Mard's Hammer: +40 damage, +5% attack speed
Blood of the Fallen: +800 life, +5 hp per second

Here's the result:

BotF = Blood of the Fallen & Scale Armor & Banded Mail
Mard = Mard's Hammer & Scale Armor & Banded Mail
MGS = Mard's Hammer & Gaunlets of Brutality & Scale Mail
MGB = Mard's Hammer & Gaunlets of Brutality & Banded Mail

As you can see in the last two tables the Blood of the Fallen equip outperforms all Mard equips. The result would shift even stronger in favor of BotF if you calculate the +5 hp regeneration it provides. That's even more impressive if you consider that BotF costs 200 favor points less than Mard.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Mard is useless when compared to BotF. Sometimes you just want to make damage quickly - health be damned, e.g. taking down towers before reinforcements come.

But in a duel the choice is clear.

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June 10, 2009 9:48:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why do people always compare vs beast?  Beast has the highest starting armor in the game, so gets the greatest advantages out of HP boosting items.  Compare, say, Reg to Reg too, or rook to rook.

 

Also, why the additional items other than the base item? Just because they are common? I don't think it is bad info per se, but you should at least include a pure blood vs pure Mard's.

 

Lastly, and I do like to bring this up a lot, but Attack bonus' are always more valuable in asymmetric (your advantage) warfare. Against a fleeing opponent, the extra chunk of DPS from the hammer is huge. A ranged user vs a melee user, same thing.

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June 10, 2009 10:05:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Zechnophobe,
Why do people always compare vs beast?  Beast has the highest starting armor in the game, so gets the greatest advantages out of HP boosting items.  Compare, say, Reg to Reg too, or rook to rook.

 

Also, why the additional items other than the base item? Just because they are common? I don't think it is bad info per se, but you should at least include a pure blood vs pure Mard's.

 

Lastly, and I do like to bring this up a lot, but Attack bonus' are always more valuable in asymmetric (your advantage) warfare. Against a fleeing opponent, the extra chunk of DPS from the hammer is huge. A ranged user vs a melee user, same thing.

Those are good points but the OP still did a good job. It would be very productive of you to do the research yourself and add it to a cool thread. Otherwise you should at least give the OP some more credit for some good research. If you don't do that you look rather petty.

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June 10, 2009 10:27:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Excellent information, I'll certainly keep it in mind. However, Mard's has several benefits that aren't counted in a spreadsheet, i.e., it's wonderful on Reg because he can kite you to infinity while dealing 40 extra damage a shot (as we know, a good bit of damage earlygame!). +1 for the excel though.

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June 11, 2009 4:17:40 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually, i beg to differ here.. early game, that 40 damage / hit might be good, but late game its usefulness quickly diminishes. Sure +40 damage always comes handy, but i've played without it and quite frankly, i do not miss it at all.

HP + Armor + Speed. That is survivalability and the ability to outrun your opponent when you flee or chase. These are the keys to kill other demigods.

Blood of the fallen is great because it adds lots of HP and some passive HP regen as well and as such it fits nicely with the survivalability requirement of success.

Swift Anklet adds a big speed boost, which helps you a lot more than extra DPS you can not use because the enemy just runs away whenever he wants.

I also find Heaven's wrath to be quite good, as you can throw it anywhere on the map. So if you see a demigod being pounded on the other side of the map, and he manages to get away with 200-300 hp, the shoot. If he gets below fog of war then tell your regulus to watch out and fire where you think he might be. If you catch him, not only do you deal damage, but you clear the fog of war long enough so the friendly reg can get a snipe in, which will possibly finish the job.

Let's not even talk about an arranged team of well coordinated demigods who each have HW at their disposal Thats 500-1000 damage (depending on the number of players) every 45 seconds anywhere on the map, starting at level 1.

BotF and Anklet are more useful on the long run of course, as they are both passive abilities which help fleeing just as much as killing.

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June 11, 2009 8:28:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ChromeWeasel,

Those are good points but the OP still did a good job. It would be very productive of you to do the research yourself and add it to a cool thread. Otherwise you should at least give the OP some more credit for some good research. If you don't do that you look rather petty.

Thank you, I was already asking myself if I did something bad.

Nevertheless keep in mind that while BotF seems superior on paper it doesn't show the whole truth. Everything is situational.

For example, if the BotF player is fleeing because his hitpoints are low for some reason, then it doesn't matter in the slightest how many hitpoints he can have when at full strength.
But it matters bloody well how much damage per second you can do when you are chasing the aforementioned bugger.

 

Btw, I made some quick calculations regarding BotF vs Furious Blade: Even if you assume that you trigger the 35% attack speed bonus permanently, BotF wins. This ratio changes with later levels, true, but this shows again how useful BotF is.

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June 11, 2009 10:13:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Aroddo,



Quoting ChromeWeasel,
reply 2

Those are good points but the OP still did a good job. It would be very productive of you to do the research yourself and add it to a cool thread. Otherwise you should at least give the OP some more credit for some good research. If you don't do that you look rather petty.


Thank you, I was already asking myself if I did something bad.

Nevertheless keep in mind that while BotF seems superior on paper it doesn't show the whole truth. Everything is situational.

For example, if the BotF player is fleeing because his hitpoints are low for some reason, then it doesn't matter in the slightest how many hitpoints he can have when at full strength.
But it matters bloody well how much damage per second you can do when you are chasing the aforementioned bugger.



 

Btw, I made some quick calculations regarding BotF vs Furious Blade: Even if you assume that you trigger the 35% attack speed bonus permanently, BotF wins. This ratio changes with later levels, true, but this shows again how useful BotF is.


The good thing about furious blade is that the speed boosts makes your other items proc faster. furious blade + slayer wraps is very nasty dps.

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June 11, 2009 11:40:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

not to forget that a sudden burst of base dmg because of the 30% extra attack speed can surprise some dg's

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June 11, 2009 2:19:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Health almost always beats out armor and damage. The only way the hammer beats the blood is if you start to increase you attack speed more so you can take advantage of the extra damage.

 

Another Example: TB Botf vs TB MH

Level 1  favors only: time for Botf to kill MH = 14.8 seconds, time for MH to kill BotF = 17.4

Level 10 favors only: time for Botf to kill MH = 13.5 seconds, time for MH to kill BotF = 14.4

The gap starts to close because they both are gaining damage and speed both of just benifit MH.

 

By no means does this mean the rest of the favors are useless(though most of them are) it all depends on how you play. When I play TB I usually grab the staff of renewal because I'm all about my spells. Do dyou need mana?, ranged damage? speed/teleport? Do you parnter with someone the whole game? Someone who can heal or shield you? There are so many variables to every game that you can't just say X is better than Y. With that said, you can't go wrong with the blood though.

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June 13, 2009 7:48:00 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

+30% attack speed on Rook = lol

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June 14, 2009 6:12:18 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pseudomelon,
+30% attack speed on Rook = lol

It's +30% damage either way. In fact, it's possibly more useful on Rook, because I think there is an attack speed cap (I may be wrong) and he's unlikely to hit it.

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June 14, 2009 9:19:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I wasn't saying it's useless. It just looks rediculously funny.

Edit: Something even funnier? Try putting all the +speed items on Rook.

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June 14, 2009 9:37:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

When I play TB I usually grab the staff of renewal because I'm all about my spells.

Why not blade of the serpent?

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June 14, 2009 11:58:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If stats wise offensive items were as strong as defensive items noone would pick defensive items.  I mean why bother when you can just kill your enemy faster and move onto the next thing?  Also in a team situation with focus firing everyone with offensive items is benefiting from their items while only one hero is benefiting from the health items.

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June 15, 2009 6:16:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

maybe somewhat offtopic, but with my ub i still prefer poison blade. for me it is ten times better to have some seconds more beating on my opponent before i get in reach of the enemy towers, early to mid game of course. i tried it several times with another favor item, but i lost many many kills because they could flee.

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