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DotA vs Demigod

By on May 23, 2009 10:57:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Aroddo

Join Date 04/2009
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In all honesty: DotA looks like Zelda 1  when compared to Demigod on video. I thought Warcraft III looked better, but yuck, you can see it's engine's age.

 

I never played DotA, so I can't judge where the one loses and the other scores, but from that little that I know about DotA, their heroes have relatively few tactical choices on how to spend their experience points when compared to DG. Max 6 skills or so ?

Ok, but then there are loads of heroes as opposed to mere 8 Demigods, which is plenty for starters in my opinion.

 And the creativity of the skills/heroes/DGs ? On DGs side, we have all kinds of damage skills, buffs and debuffs for DGs and minions. The invincible Mist of Erebus is something more unusual, as well as the towers of Rook. The godawful reach of Regulus' Snipe isn't too commonly seen in other games either, I think, as well as being able to eat buildings (Rook again). Last Stand looks fresh too, making death count for more than just a suicide bomb.

DotA has the big fat Undead with the chain dragging enemies to you, which seems pretty original. Anything else which is cool and unusual?

So, apart from the multiplayer issues Demigod is better by far. And I doubt DotA started with 100 heroes either.

 

 

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May 23, 2009 11:06:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'd avoid threads of this nature, as well.. as you can imagine. You're not the first to post them. A simple Forum Search would have yeilded that truth.

Here is a simpliar topic, but with the title reversed. Perhaps you should amend to it, unless it was locked for being a dead-end-topic.

Demigod vs DOTA - Started December 8th 2008.

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May 23, 2009 11:29:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You know you're gonna open another pandora's box with this thread...

I think it's hard for you to present a reasonable case for comparison when you've already claimed that you've never played DotA in the first place.

Just for the record, many skills and concepts in Demigod are clearly inspired by those in DotA. Also, while the Warcraft 3 engine is dated, it is far more scalable than the Moho Engine; Warcraft 3 can run on rigs older than it's time, allowing for a wider audience of players.

Comparing heroes with Demigods, one can see where the inspiration may be drawn from. Just to name a few:

* Main structure as game objective, Citadel => Throne/Tree of Life

* Morale skill tree => +2 per stat in DotA

* Regulus => Dwarven Sniper + Goblin Techies. Dwarven Sniper has the snipe ability and range increase, while Goblin Techies had mines.

* DotA has a very rich variety of buffs and debuffs too. Several DotA heroes can summon minions too.

* Erebus's Mist is akin to Sand King's Sand Storm.

* Unclean Beast's Inner Beast => Ursa Warrior's Overpower

* Oak's Penitence => Holy Knight's Penitence

 

Things cool and unusual in DotA yet seen in Demigod:

* Stealth based characters

* Displacement based skills (Swap, Meat Hook, Lightning Grapple, Toss, Portal, etc)

* Replication based skills (Juxtapose, Wall of Replica)

 

That said, many ideas in DotA can hardly be called original either, and we know that Demigod is definitely different enough to be its own.

It's no use saying one is better over the other because the two are different. It's more a matter of taste. That said, I definitely have a taste for both.  

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May 23, 2009 1:13:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why do you feel there is a need to compare the two and say Demigod is better? You have never even played DotA so you don't really have the credibility to compare honestly. DotA has been around for a long time and before that coming from maps like Aeon of Strife and has a crazy player base history. DotA after all this time also has mass amounts of heroes, and a lot more complex gameplay. I mean it is probably top 10 most hours played game per day and it is a custom created player map!

If you are trying to hype Demigod you definitely don't want to come at the angle Demigod is better the DotA, because flat out it is not "better", the convenience of battlenet and solidness of blizzard is almost impossible to compete with. If you want to hype Demigod I would say that if you liked DotA you will love demigod, both games are equally fun. The edge Demigod has are really nice graphics look feel and amazing audio. Also a fresh new game, people have been playing DotA since I think 2002. I started playing DotA when the first map was released, have been saying that I wish someone would make a modernized dota style game for a long time. There are plenty of people that will be ready to move on to demigod and it will grow over time.

That said if you have never played DotA and play demigod, go pick up a copy of warcraft 3 for cheap and play some DotA, both very enjoyable games.

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May 23, 2009 1:48:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sydaemon:  Wouldn't a demigod that functioned along the odd lines of Phantom Lancer, Templar Assassin, or Undying be awesome to see?  I for one would love something like Earthshaker, since him and a blink dagger is my favorite hero in DotA.  Nothing quite like blink -> echo slam -> fissure -> enchant totem -> refresher orb ->echo slam

 

Edit:  Edited to reply to Aroddo's question about unusual heroes in DotA.

 

There's the ones I mentioned above off the top of my head.

Phantom Lancer is based around creating illusions of himself that carry 25% of his damage and are under his control, that can also generate more as well up to a cap of 5 currently.  Combined with one of the mana burning items in the game, he destroys spellcasters that can't do an aoe stun or blink away, and is a perfect counter to the hero Leoric, since without mana his best ability (refered to as an ultimate in DotA) is useless.

 

Templar Assassin is a very short range ranged character, who is all about causing splash through damage on her attacks, going invisible in a spot and then popping out to do extra damage + armor reduction, and placing traps around the map that slow opponents when they're activated.

 

Undying is a zombie like guy who can sap the strength from opponents and give it to himself temporarily (more hp and damage for him, less hp and damage for them if they are strength based), he can heal/hurt someone with a spell that has greater effect the more enemies/friends that are around, he can raise an obelisk that spawns temporary zombies that slow the person they're hitting, and he can turn into a giant flesh golem for 30 seconds, which debuffs all enemies around him into moving slower and taking more damage, along with anything dying near him healing a % of his max health.

 

Rooftrellen is a giant treant that can give someone an armor buff that also increase their hp regen rate, he can place wards on trees that are permanent and see invisible in their sight radius (there's a number of ways to remove them via items or skills), he can make someone invisible for a while as long as they stay near trees, and he can make roots sprout out from the ground around him and grab everyone nearby and hold them in place for 3-5 seconds, doing damage and preventing them from attacking (they can still use spells though).

 

Or probably the best example would be Meepo.  He's a kobold geomancer, who can toss a net that holds you in place for 2 seconds, has a passive slow that also does damage over time on his attack, and can teleport to a copy of himself, doing damage where he leaves and arrives.  His ultimate generates copies of him, that have the same abilities at the levels he's got, and similar stats.  By the end game there will be four of him total.  However, if any of them die, they all die, and the copies only get a copy of his boots itemwise.

 

Some of the demigods in here are easy to sum up with mentioning a hero or two in DotA, but not all of them.  Regulus or Unclean beast is easy, Regulus as mentioned above is Dwarven Sniper with some Techies mixed in, whereas Unclean Beast is Pudge without the hook combined with old Naix and Caustic Finale from Sand King.  Rook, on the other hand, well.. there isn't anyone quite like Rook.

 

I second picking up a copy of Warcraft III for checking out DotA, though I will warn you that people on battle.net are pretty elitist jerks when it comes to people starting out.  However, if you do decide to get it, I'm totally willing to help show ya the ropes and everything, and to answer any questions you might have about it.  I've got a ridiculous amount of math/info about that game stored in my head.  Hell, if I needed to for some reason you could give me a damage number and an armor number and I could tell you how much damage it would actually end up being without having to look up the formula

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May 23, 2009 2:03:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Stupid thread is stupid. This is my first post and a drunken one. Just could not leave this be. Two entirely different games, which happen to be surprisingly similar. I have played very little Dota and that was when waiting for Demigod. Bashing the other for the favor of the other is just stupid. I like Demigod more, because of the camera and controlls. Many must like Dota because they have accustomed to it.

 

(sorry for grammar. english not my first and im drunk)

 

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May 23, 2009 2:21:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Meikkis: I like DotA because it's fun for me.  I also like Demigod because it's fun for me, and I have high hopes for it since it's a DotA style game that my friends might be willing to play with me due to it having an easier learning curve (imo, and that's a good thing) and it being a heck of a lot prettier.  Plus, you can play as a walking castle!  That's just pretty damn sweet.

 

I think bashing either is pretty dumb, as it doesn't accomplish anything.  In my case, I like what currently is in Demigod, and hope to see some more unusual Demigod styles come up as they add more or add more to the existing ones (btw how cool woudl it be if they continued to expand the current demigod's skill trees?  I'd be all over that).  I'm also excited over the clan wars idea that Frogboy mentioned a while back, as I'd love to get into some competitive play on this.

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May 23, 2009 2:23:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

of course these 2 look graphically different. look how old war3 is. Also as stated abov few posts war3 was made that way so it could run on lower end pcs.

I played all war games but never got into war3 that much.War3 graphics are to toony for me atm hence is why i stopped playen wow.

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May 23, 2009 3:15:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Looks like Demigod still has plenty of ... inspirations to draw from.

And the engine used for DG is quite likely capable of running 3D maps, too. But right now I like the stylized, artificial duel maps. It makes the game feel more ... esoteric ... godlike, if you will.

When they finally decide to make 3d levels then I'd like to see one take place on a globe.

 

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May 23, 2009 3:17:10 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

If you've never played DotA, why the fuck post this?  You have nothing to say.

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May 23, 2009 3:18:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

If demigod wants to compete with the playerbase of DOTA, they really need to step up the number of heroes. 8+2 (that are planned) simply does not cut it for replayability. So far the number of maps in demigod have offered some variaty, but in 2-3 months time when people have played all heroes with all reasonable builds they prolly wont be coming back for more.

 

Explansions would be cool, I woul definately pay for 8 new heroes and maps

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May 23, 2009 4:38:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You're bashing the graphics?  The graphics mean nothing.  TF2 is not a better looking game than more recent FPS' but it's a hell of a lot better game.

Demigod heroes are like several Dota heroes smashed together.  The item system is much simpler, on the other hand.

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May 23, 2009 4:56:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Who cares what games look like, especially a strategy based game?  I love demigod and I play it more these days than DOTA, but DOTA is a classic, I have been playing since pre-Frozen Throne.  If you have never played it, please don't try to criticize it.  If you care for other noteable differences, DOTA has a system where certain items can only be gotten by combining others.

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May 23, 2009 5:09:54 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Ahye, graphic of Demigod kills it though ^^

Playing DotA for over 3 years now, bought Demigod today. Unfortunately, it doesnt works online kinda ... sth with ports or wtf...WHY THE HECK I HAVE TO OPEN THIS SH.. TO JOIN A GAME? It should be only needed for hosting .... No Comment. Due moving I have a o2DSL Router now, its a mess to open any port there and there is no chance of chosing UDP / TCP/IP...

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May 23, 2009 6:57:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

 

Quoting Salvo,
If you've never played DotA, why the fuck post this?  You have nothing to say.

 

Why the fuck not ?

 

 

Quoting TeacHa-,
Ahye, graphic of Demigod kills it though ^^

Playing DotA for over 3 years now, bought Demigod today. Unfortunately, it doesnt works online kinda ... sth with ports or wtf...WHY THE HECK I HAVE TO OPEN THIS SH.. TO JOIN A GAME? It should be only needed for hosting .... No Comment. Due moving I have a o2DSL Router now, its a mess to open any port there and there is no chance of chosing UDP / TCP/IP...

 

 

actually it works without forwarding ports. at least it should, according to stardocks.

they are working on it.

 

Quoting themadmanazn,
Who cares what games look like, especially a strategy based game?  I love demigod and I play it more these days than DOTA, but DOTA is a classic, I have been playing since pre-Frozen Throne.  If you have never played it, please don't try to criticize it.  If you care for other noteable differences, DOTA has a system where certain items can only be gotten by combining others.

If a game looks like good AND plays good, then it's preferable to the one with the outdated looks. Especially for new players that haven't played either game before. 

I can criticize what I see. And I'm interested to hear what makes DOTA superior to Demigod in your eyes.

But just "it has 100 heroes" doesn't cut it if the heroes don't offer you a unique game experience each.

I think, diablo 2 was the first game that did it right. Truly different heroes ... not just superficial differences like in D&D games, where early Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, etc. were basically the same with minor differences (minor compared to Diablo II class distinction).

Demigod does that well, too, although the generals play too much alike in my opinion. At least if you go for a minion build for them.

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May 23, 2009 7:05:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

add the proxy only parameter...sigh

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May 23, 2009 9:13:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Aroddo,
 


Why the fuck not ?


Because your basing your opinion on nothing at all. Doesn't really make for a credible opinion.

Quoting Aroddo,
If a game looks like good AND plays good, then it's preferable to the one with the outdated looks. Especially for new players that haven't played either game before. 

I can criticize what I see. And I'm interested to hear what makes DOTA superior to Demigod in your eyes.

But just "it has 100 heroes" doesn't cut it if the heroes don't offer you a unique game experience each.

I think, diablo 2 was the first game that did it right. Truly different heroes ... not just superficial differences like in D&D games, where early Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, etc. were basically the same with minor differences (minor compared to Diablo II class distinction).

Demigod does that well, too, although the generals play too much alike in my opinion. At least if you go for a minion build for them.

 

Looks are a bonus IMO. I want a game that plays well, if it looks good thats fine, but I really don't give a shit what it looks like. What WC3 does have going for it like all Blizzard games is you can play it on anything. You can get our your Atari and it'll run. That opens the playerbase to levels other games can't even dream about. Thats one of the chief reasons WoW has the playerbase it does. You can play it on any pile of shit computer you may have.

 

100 heroes is one of the reasons people love DotA so much. But its one of its biggest draw backs too. thats 100 heroes to learn, each with 4 skills thats 400 skills before you even start looking at items. The shitty part of that is everyone will always have those same 4 skills on that hero, no matter what. I think DGs heroes are superior in that you can play them different ways because you cant have it all. In DotA a hero has the same potential in every game he shows up, items are what build them differently. In DG they've got the potential to be different from the get go and items only add to that.

 

What makes DotAs items better imo is that you have to build them (which is a huge draw back to new players) but to build X item you need different components and those components give you a slight advantage mid game till you finish the item. In DG you just buy whatever and shitcan it once you want to get an artifact. You hardly ever sell an item in DotA unless you fuck up and buy something you didn't mean to. Otherwise late in the game you might finally sell that wraith band you've been holding onto to make room for something else but only after all your other slots have been filled with big items.

 

And if you don't think those 100 heroes play differently from eachother you've got a shitty source on your info. They all play differently. If you try to play Chen like PA you're on some harsh drugs and in for quite the ass kicking.

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May 23, 2009 11:16:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

100 heroes in DotA is terrible. its not good game design. its just a fetish for new heroes that drives it, it adds nothing to the play experience. the simple fact is that only a handful of those heroes are good enough to play competitively anyway. 

 

i far prefer demigod's take which is to have fewer heroes but greater depth for each hero. 

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May 24, 2009 12:46:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

...Lol, Why focus on the hero aspect. 100 Heros with some kind of ranged attack, a debuff some passive stuff etc.  Its a basic formula with some fancy names and some fancy WCIII effects

DoTa has had the same Map and layout for years. . . Thats probably the most boring part of it.

Demigod is a fresh professionally developed game by 2 vasty talented groups.  Im not short chaning the Dota / AOS creator...but there is no comparision, Demigod is vastly superior in many ways.  The gameplay may be the same but to be able to talk about depth when, as I said, the map has been the same...and you build items?  Lol Who cares.  It's time to move into the next decade and stop fapping over something that's been phased out ages ago.

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May 24, 2009 1:54:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I really don't get this "greater depth" for each hero spiel that you guys love to sprout. Demigod is currently constrained by limited item selection and skill trees.

DotA is successful because of several factors:

Low requirements to entry (hardware, bandwidth, connectivity, monetary).

Extensive community involvement (VCK, meaningful ladders)

Focused gameplay with variety.

Well supported platform (WC3 TFT, responsive controls, clear graphics)

 

The main problems Stardock needs to address in Demigod are in my opinion:

User interface:

Sure the GUI is pretty and shiny but most of it has no use. A box with the basic stats, skills, and items would easily replace the GUI as it is now while providing more utility. If you want to attract advanced players, provide an interface that lets us accurately judge the situation instead of making encounters guessing games. In addition to more comprehensive allied and enemy hero stats, the creeps are presented abysmally. SupCom had this flaw too: We had the ultimate strategy game, but no one could tell their unit's stats at a glance and I believe that turned a few people away from the game. Give us creep stats, please.

Player communication is a serious issue too. We have no way to signal (please don't make it the lame-ass one that they threw into SupCom: it was tied to the sim thread and thus too slow responding) like players could in DotA. The rotating camera is a problem too since maps are symmetrical and saying "left" or "right" quickly becomes meaningless. Add a compass overlay or something similar.

Presentation aside, the GUI just doesn't feel responsive. WC3 had simpler graphics but I really think that was a strength; with all the bloom and ecetera cluttering the screen, cursors can become lost in a sea of brown and greys. Ignoring that issue, I feel that commands are not accompanied by strong enough acknowledgements. Give us stronger auditory response to user commands.

One last question: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SHIFT KEY? I want my command queues back.

Overall, Demigod's interface has nearly every weakness of the SupCom interface minus the benefit of strategic icons. SupCom was never designed for quick action and it shows: units bumped around awkwardly, commands were sluggish, and voice response was nonexistent. Simply put, the WC3 engine allows DotA to have a better presentation that gave new players useful information and experienced players greater control.

Networking: I know this is beating a dead horse but...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fzoo.cs.yale.edu%2Fclasses%2Fcs538%2Freadings%2Fpapers%2Fterrano_1500arch.pdf&ei=7dwYSqK2L6KUMq6rnZoP&usg=AFQjCNEVNTUK3LoS9-K31ecXyBCpU8Ql-A&sig2=heMQU7dPfuLWAezTFXybqQ

Ensemble Studios guys did something right with their p2p model. I could play massive 8 player games on a 56k connection back when MSN Zone still hosted Age of Empires 2. They did something right; let's find out what.

Heroes and items:

Ok, here we go. Goddamn does every single hero have to move around like they've recently come out of a coma? It seems like Hero speeds were designed for the smallest map and then never looked at again. There is something wrong when the best strategies nearly always involve anklet of speed, boots of speed, and wand of speed.

Again, feedback is a weakness. The red, green, and white damage indicators are nice and all, but experience and gold text for creep and hero kills would be nice. Maybe group the creep kill text so only one would be up at a time.

 

Ok game started, ganna stop writing now.

 

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May 24, 2009 1:42:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In regards to gameplay differences:

DotA (at its current refined level of gameplay) requires more precise skill then DG. Denies, last hits, careful watching of the minimap and enemy movements, preparing and avoiding ganks are all either non-existant in DG or much less defined.

However, DG has a more strategic feel to it due to the flag and warscore system. Citadel upgrades and more complex DGs make it so there are more strategic decisions involved in building your DG and choosing what to buy. A standard "build" needs to be much more flexible in DG than in DotA.

I believe that as the players improve, the level of gameplay will improve as well, and become more skill based. With its current interface, I don't think DG will reach the level of play skill needed to compete at DotA, but I do think it will achieve a higher level of balance and retain a greater focus on countering opponents (even though DotA is good at this already).

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May 24, 2009 2:36:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Dota has a horrible community. Also when I played it I could completely bash out the enemy until he got some item that made him pretty much impossible to kill. So I wouldn't call dota a game where you need skill. You just need to know what items to get and you'll win anyway.

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May 24, 2009 2:46:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Syltman,
Dota has a horrible community. Also when I played it I could completely bash out the enemy until he got some item that made him pretty much impossible to kill. So I wouldn't call dota a game where you need skill. You just need to know what items to get and you'll win anyway.

If you think you can win just by getting the right items then you just don't know how to play DotA.

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May 24, 2009 2:52:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well, have a ton of Hero's makes random actually meaningful. It also allows for strange variations on teamwork.

Don't get my wrong, DemiGod is an awsome game, but to say DOTA is not worth playing is like saying Mario 1 sucks because Braid is better. It is the difference between a classic and a newer variation.

Again, Demigod reminds me of pre-Frozen Throne DOTA. Few heros, simple items (which is not nessecarily a bad thing).

In the end, they are different games, lets not waste time bashing one or the other. I personally like to see if a game can live up to it's own potential as a game, not if it compares to other games. If a game does what it does right, then it is a good game IMO.

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May 24, 2009 3:02:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

WE HAVE NEVER DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE.

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May 24, 2009 3:29:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I never played DotA

please, please, think more before you post.

DotA and DG are two completely different animals dispite thier similarities.  There is no reason to compare the two aside from both are an AOS, Team based multiplayer game, and fun to play.

ya know they have WC3 rpg's... you want to start comparing those to FFXI, WoW, and everquest?

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