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Of proxies, NATs and more.

By Frogboy on May 22, 2009 12:59:33 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

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I recall someone saying that it would take many months for someone to develop, from scratch, their own client/server proxy system and even then, the publisher couldn’t do it because it would require changes to the game.

+912 Karma | 22 Replies
Reply #1
Deepjay
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May 22, 2009 1:11:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

quoting post


In your faces!


 

 

Reply #2
phatmike
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May 22, 2009 1:11:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

want a medal for making the game playable?

Reply #3
Nullzero98
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May 22, 2009 1:12:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sweet!

Now give us that 50% coupon so I can invite my friends to play with me!

Reply #5
carpwrist
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May 22, 2009 1:48:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i wish the TF2 updates hadn't gone live this week, i'm very torn between games now

 

Reply #6
Protocept00
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May 22, 2009 1:57:05 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting carpwrist,
reply 4
i wish the TF2 updates hadn't gone live this week, i'm very torn between games now

 

Heh, know what's funny though? Demigod works great for me and TF2 (since the new spy/sniper update) isn't working at all.

Anyways, Great job Stardock and Frog as well as GPG. Keep it up guys, being a college IT student, I'm beginning to understand how complex networking really is. You guys are doing great, keep your heads up, and learn form the experience, so that when Demigod 2 comes around it will be perfect.

Reply #7
Colonel_Jessep
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May 22, 2009 1:59:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So when are the proxies available? Already or in the next few days, any ETA? Thanks.

Reply #8
hoogamaphone
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May 22, 2009 2:08:15 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The proxies make a huge difference. I've played 3 games so far, where people had to use proxies. I also like that I can see ho people are connected.

Reply #9
MooglesRcute
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May 22, 2009 2:15:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Appreciate your hard work and honesty about the situation frogboy

Reply #10
glasfod
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May 22, 2009 2:24:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i can still connect like not at all...

why worked everything fine before patch 14/5 and after that not at all...

even when i open ports remove my router and turn off firewall i get "can not connect to NAT".

ohh yeah and the proxy thing does not work aswell i get the error even faster with that option on tho... when i can not connect i guess i can not connect to any numbers of proxy servers because the way u connect to them is the same...

Reply #11
StiL ReY
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May 22, 2009 2:25:36 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Love the proxies. It allowed me to play with one of my friends that I haven't been able to play with yet.

Reply #12
Teseer
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May 22, 2009 2:43:20 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

8 games in tonight! Good work

Reply #13
lokideath
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May 22, 2009 2:51:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You really need to to do something about bad pathfinding and the don't move/don't attack/don't cast bug.

Reply #14
Frogboy
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May 22, 2009 2:58:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You really need to to do something about bad pathfinding and the don't move/don't attack/don't cast bug.

We've reported that to GPG.  But once you're in that lobby, our part is over.

Reply #15
keokio
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May 22, 2009 3:03:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i've been connecting with people i haven't been able to connect to before. Keep up the good work

Reply #16
tkossak
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May 22, 2009 4:38:56 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

great job! thanx, now we're gonna rule the multiplayer world

Reply #17
Gabberkooij
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May 22, 2009 4:52:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great job, will 'test' this today

and ofcourse a wish :
Would be nice to be able to set commandline parameters within Impulse

Reply #18
Vashan
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May 22, 2009 5:41:05 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

the program is still using more ports then I configured in ImpulseReactorOptions.exe

only workaround for now, is for me to open ALL ports to my internal IP.

Please fix that, and everything would be fine. Opening ALL ports should normally not be necessary....

[05-22-2009 11:34:57 156] Connected to facilitator at 209.124.63.249:6004.  My External: 92.227.119.116:10592  My Internal: 192.168.1.2:6002 (CONNECTION ACTIVITY)

People do connect to my external IP Adress right?

Vashan

Reply #19
PhXDragon
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May 22, 2009 6:15:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I recall someone saying that it would take many months for someone to develop, from scratch, their own client/server proxy system and even then, the publisher couldn’t do it because it would require changes to the game.

To do it properly it could take several months, because now it is STILL NOT WORKING AS IT SHOULD!!! As before, almost everyone can connect to me, but I still have difficulties to connect to other players, even with proxies. And if I don't put the /serverproxyonly, he doesn't seem to take the initiative to do it himself.

What remains weird is that I can't use the impulsereactor configuration, because he can't find the NAT facilitator if I do!

Where can I send my log files to investigate or where can I get a refund?

PhXDragon

Reply #20
Rocah
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May 22, 2009 8:33:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Vashan,
reply 17
the program is still using more ports then I configured in ImpulseReactorOptions.exe

only workaround for now, is for me to open ALL ports to my internal IP.

Please fix that, and everything would be fine. Opening ALL ports should normally not be necessary....

[05-22-2009 11:34:57 156] Connected to facilitator at 209.124.63.249:6004.  My External: 92.227.119.116:10592  My Internal: 192.168.1.2:6002 (CONNECTION ACTIVITY)

People do connect to my external IP Adress right?

Vashan

Your router must be setup with Symmetric NAT which causes a port to be randomly picked (10592 in your case) when it leaves the router. I don't know if demigod trys to connect back to this port for its direct connection attempt (instead of the open range 6000-6200 for example). I suspect it does, as I had a router that was doing as yours was and had to forward all ports to get demigod to work 100%.

I have since swapped out my Symmetric NAT router for an older one i had that i think is using CONE NAT, i now get the same external port in the impulse reactor log as my internal port. With this router i only have to open the 6000-6200 range to connect without problems.

Perhaps demigod should send the port the internal client is listening on within the connection packet, and ignore the external port number the router has allocated (to take advantage of people forwarding ports). If a direct connect on this port fails, then try doing a NAT punchthrough via the port from the router.

Reply #21
dolynick
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May 22, 2009 12:45:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Rocah,
reply 19



Quoting Vashan,
reply 17
the program is still using more ports then I configured in ImpulseReactorOptions.exe

only workaround for now, is for me to open ALL ports to my internal IP.

Please fix that, and everything would be fine. Opening ALL ports should normally not be necessary....

[05-22-2009 11:34:57 156] Connected to facilitator at 209.124.63.249:6004.  My External: 92.227.119.116:10592  My Internal: 192.168.1.2:6002 (CONNECTION ACTIVITY)

People do connect to my external IP Adress right?

Vashan


Your router must be setup with Symmetric NAT which causes a port to be randomly picked (10592 in your case) when it leaves the router. I don't know if demigod trys to connect back to this port for its direct connection attempt (instead of the open range 6000-6200 for example). I suspect it does, as I had a router that was doing as yours was and had to forward all ports to get demigod to work 100%.

I have since swapped out my Symmetric NAT router for an older one i had that i think is using CONE NAT, i now get the same external port in the impulse reactor log as my internal port. With this router i only have to open the 6000-6200 range to connect without problems.

Perhaps demigod should send the port the internal client is listening on within the connection packet, and ignore the external port number the router has allocated (to take advantage of people forwarding ports). If a direct connect on this port fails, then try doing a NAT punchthrough via the port from the router.

I have seen some odd ports being used in my Reactor Log as well.  Enabling a specified port range in ReactorOptions, even if it's just the default range, stops that behavior.  A software setting like that wouldn't stop the router using random ports as you suggest above as the router would just do it's own thing regardless of what the software did if that was the case.

That being said, even when I stopped it from using those random ports in the logs, it still would not connect properly both ways to some people.  Forwarding all ports, ie being in a DMZ, would also not resolve connectivity issues with some people.

I will say though that the proxies do seem to be working fairly well as a band aid over the remaining underlying connection issues.  Aside from a little lenghty fallback period (if you're not forcing them), they seem to perform quite well and better than I was expecting for the added intermediary connection.

-dolynick

Reply #22
Rocah
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May 24, 2009 4:39:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have seen some odd ports being used in my Reactor Log as well.  Enabling a specified port range in ReactorOptions, even if it's just the default range, stops that behavior.  A software setting like that wouldn't stop the router using random ports as you suggest above as the router would just do it's own thing regardless of what the software did if that was the case.

That being said, even when I stopped it from using those random ports in the logs, it still would not connect properly both ways to some people.  Forwarding all ports, ie being in a DMZ, would also not resolve connectivity issues with some people.

I will say though that the proxies do seem to be working fairly well as a band aid over the remaining underlying connection issues.  Aside from a little lenghty fallback period (if you're not forcing them), they seem to perform quite well and better than I was expecting for the added intermediary connection.

-dolynick

As i understand it, unlike TCP, the UDP "connection" (a connection in as much as the router storing a pass through for a specific port) has to be done on both sides, so you opening up all your ports (DMZ) will mean that anyone will be able to connect to you. However you may still have issues connecting to others to the reasons i gave above. The direct connection that demigod does in some cases (people with symmetric NAT routers) is really doing a NAT punch through without the facilitator. I still think it would be better if demigod attempted to connect to the internal port if it is different than the external to see if that user has forwarded ports, as at least my other symmetric NAT router was very glitchy when forwarding udp packets back to my internal client when recieved on the random port its just sent data out on.

It may be all moot soon anyway if Frogboy proceeds with proxying every connection.

Reply #23
Ciber
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May 24, 2009 5:16:55 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Are there many proxies in europe? Sometime other players in europe have 300 ping when on proxy which would indicate that they might be using a proxy on another continent. It works great even with high pings so it's just curiousity.

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