Closed

Dude yea, the game is awesome...the developers are awesome....there is no god darn DRM on the game either. Its 100% pure awesomeness.

Now with a little more maps...and a little more Demigods...and ZOMG *orgasm*

While I question the justification for your acts of software piracy, I find it encouraging to know that Stardock's approach to their consumer base is yielding fruit. Many others would not have such a code of conduct though, which is just the reality of the human condition.

In any case, welcome to the game!

Please sue this guy, stardock.

Quoting SyDaemon,

reply 2

While I question the justification for your acts of software piracy, I find it encouraging to know that Stardock's approach to their consumer base is yielding fruit. Many others would not have such a code of conduct though, which is just the reality of the human condition.

In any case, welcome to the game!

Justification or not, I 'pirated'* this game to check it out and I bought it. I would never had bought this if I hadn't checked it out first. Even more ironically, the first time I heard about the game was in a post on a gameforum about how mucht this game has been pirated. The thing that caught my eye was the fact that the game does not have DRM on it. And voila, 3 weeks later I spent 40$ on it.

* the term pirate has become one of the most subjective words in existance today. 90% of my 'pirates' are like a glorified demo. The last 2 games I pirated I ended up buying.

Pirated it the day it leaked, played it on hamachi with a bunch of other pirates for a week, and then bought it.

I don't pirate DRM-free stuff. Ever since I bought spore, though, I'm not always so generous about the DRM stuff.

The biggest factor in me deciding to buy this game (as well as Galactic civilizations) was the lack of copy protection.

I will never pay for, or install DRM malware.

Quoting twifightDG,

reply 4

Quoting SyDaemon, reply 2While I question the justification for your acts of software piracy, I find it encouraging to know that Stardock's approach to their consumer base is yielding fruit. Many others would not have such a code of conduct though, which is just the reality of the human condition.

In any case, welcome to the game!

Justification or not, I 'pirated'* this game to check it out and I bought it. I would never had bought this if I hadn't checked it out first. Even more ironically, the first time I heard about the game was in a post on a gameforum about how mucht this game has been pirated. The thing that caught my eye was the fact that the game does not have DRM on it. And voila, 3 weeks later I spent 40$ on it.

* the term pirate has become one of the most subjective words in existance today. 90% of my 'pirates' are like a glorified demo. The last 2 games I pirated I ended up buying.

One of the things you can always rely on with "pirates"* is that they'll come up with some twisted justification as to why they steal. Terribe analogy, but you'll hear the same sorts of justification from all criminals.

I'll admit I'm very anti-piracy, because I simply do not believe people who say they only use them as demo's, sure there are people who do that, but it's an absolute minority.

Pirates have always existed, but the problem these days is that we are suffering a total downturn on good, solid Single Player games, developers are being forced to put multiplayer modes in purely because it's the only way to ensure people will buy their game, since most pirates will typically only pay if they have to, aka if you can't play online without a legit key.

Am I the only one who wondered where they all went? I'm talking specifically PC, console games still get a lot of love for solid SP games. The perfect example is Adventure Games; I'm old enough to remember when there were 5+ Adventure releases every year, now we're lucky to have a single one. Infact, the only worthwhile addition to this genre since going back to old stuff like the last Monkey Island, is Ceville.

Most of the people I talk to online within my gaming groups and so on recurringly make this comment:

"I won't pay for Single Player games anymore"

Lots of skewed justification for that such as them saying it's not worth the money for a 6hr game when the same money can get you an infinite-hour multiplayer one. Which is great, but pirates always believe they aren't making enough impact on the industry for anyone to care, I wish they'd realise they are.

Also, OP, I have no idea why you pirated Demigod, considering there's a 90 day full moneyback no quibbles guarantee, if you'd hated the game, you could've gotten all your money back, this completely invalidates your reasoning behind pirating.

Reviews exist for a reason, Metacritic is a perfect way to decide whether to buy, it's yet to let me down. The point I'm making is that if we all took the view that we're totally entitled to play a game through before we buy it, it'd be an extremely grim future for the PC. And again, even if the OP is telling the truth, the vast majority of pirates WILL NOT pirate a story driven SP game, play through it, then pay for it, that's bullshit.

PS. You're retarded for posting here, considering Stardock now have all the information they need on you to take your money and ban you from the game, if not take legal action. Smart move.

*pirates is a subjective word, I prefer fags.

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

One of the things you can always rely on with "pirates"* is that they'll come up with some twisted justification as to why they steal. Terribe analogy, but you'll hear the same sorts of justification from all criminals.

In my opinion games developers are near criminal now as the majority of them do not release finished games for PC. I have at least £400 worth of games stacked up in my cupboard which I purchased last year and played only to find they were ridden with problems.

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

I'll admit I'm very anti-piracy, because I simply do not believe people who say they only use them as demo's, sure there are people who do that, but it's an absolute minority.

That may be do, that is why I do not state that I speak for every 'pirate'. However the 'majority' that do not pay almost certainly would not have purchased the games anyway in my experience at college. The people whom introduced me to pirating never paid for them. They used Proxy servers and everything so they experienced the whole games free of charge. They had no morals and yes, should be obliterated as it is just plain stealing.

With regards to not believing in people that say they only use them as demo's. Well you are entitled to your own opinion, however that is the main reason for myself posting here. To hopefully help some people restore their faith in humanity!

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

Pirates have always existed, but the problem these days is that we are suffering a total downturn on good, solid Single Player games, developers are being forced to put multiplayer modes in purely because it's the only way to ensure people will buy their game, since most pirates will typically only pay if they have to, aka if you can't play online without a legit key.

Am I the only one who wondered where they all went? I'm talking specifically PC, console games still get a lot of love for solid SP games. The perfect example is Adventure Games; I'm old enough to remember when there were 5+ Adventure releases every year, now we're lucky to have a single one. Infact, the only worthwhile addition to this genre since going back to old stuff like the last Monkey Island, is Ceville.

Most of the people I talk to online within my gaming groups and so on recurringly make this comment:

"I won't pay for Single Player games anymore"

Lots of skewed justification for that such as them saying it's not worth the money for a 6hr game when the same money can get you an infinite-hour multiplayer one. Which is great, but pirates always believe they aren't making enough impact on the industry for anyone to care, I wish they'd realise they are.

With regards to having to purchase the game to play online, that is not true. There are ways round it, even the demigod download I used prior to purchasing the game had full insctructions on how to access an online 'pirate' community. I personnaly do not use those bits as it is over stepping the 'demo' mark for me.

Single player games, I have no idea about as I only buy them on consoles. Only good solo games seem to be released on them....So your point is most probably valid! (I think the real reason is that PC's only real triumph over consoles, is because they were the first to have online capabilty and it is very easy to adapt any computer game to support online and apply patches, as opposed to consoles where to the best of my knowledge it seems to be much harder to get a working online community and it is much harder to distribute patches as game data is all stored on read only media)

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

Also, OP, I have no idea why you pirated Demigod, considering there's a 90 day full moneyback no quibbles guarantee, if you'd hated the game, you could've gotten all your money back, this completely invalidates your reasoning behind pirating.

That is news to me, if every retailer offered this then piracy = solved, even my case. I would never need to 'demo' a pc game again if I knew the game was garbage I would be able to return it. As far as I knew, once you had purchased a piece of software you were stuck with it due to CD Keys etc. I assume this is if the game is purchased direct as opposed to going through a 3rd party retailer?

But at the same time I disagree with these types of policies as I know people exploit them. Playing through the whole game in a week then returning them etc.

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

Reviews exist for a reason, Metacritic is a perfect way to decide whether to buy, it's yet to let me down. The point I'm making is that if we all took the view that we're totally entitled to play a game through before we buy it, it'd be an extremely grim future for the PC. And again, even if the OP is telling the truth, the vast majority of pirates WILL NOT pirate a story driven SP game, play through it, then pay for it, that's bullshit.

I do not trust reviews anymore, Empire Total War was given 95%, 9/10 etc etc on many well established magazines and websites. When it arrived I just could not believe it. Neither could thousands of other users now asking for their money back on the forums, which of course they will not get as the vast majority of companies will not offer any money back guarentee.

Again the SP issue I cannot comment on as for me, PC = Online Multiplayer with Teamspeak, forums etc. Console = Big TV with immersive surround sound and a control with all the buttons to hand and curtains drawn. With no crashes to desktop/hardware worries whilst I am immersed in my own little solo world.

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

PS. You're retarded for posting here, considering Stardock now have all the information they need on you to take your money and ban you from the game, if not take legal action. Smart move.

That is true, but my point in posting here was my personal little attempt to restore some faith in humanity and compliment them on such a resoundingly good job as I am really impressed. They are making some pretty groundbreaking changes to the way PC Gaming could work in my opinion.. So yes, for them to sue me would be a bit of a blow to the face. I could have made a fake account etc, used a proxy and what not, but I am young and still have enough faith to believe that sometimes people can see both sides of the coin.

Quoting Oww,

reply 8

*pirates is a subjective word, I prefer fags.

Indeed

Quoting nukemben,

reply 9

That is news to me, if every retailer offered this then piracy = solved, even my case. I would never need to 'demo' a pc game again if I knew the game was garbage I would be able to return it. As far as I knew, once you had purchased a piece of software you were stuck with it due to CD Keys etc. I assume this is if the game is purchased direct as opposed to going through a 3rd party retailer?

But at the same time I disagree with these types of policies as I know people exploit them. Playing through the whole game in a week then returning them etc.

Yes, I think Stardock is more of an exception here. They have an excellent return policy. They even give you a refund if you have been banned

.

Indeed it was news to me too. I think the game industry would solve half of the piracy problem as you could just play the game as a demo and then decide if you want your money back or not. Problem would still be singple player games which most game junkies play all the way through in two weeks tops.

To the one quoting me, it's not a twisted justification I was posting, it was simply my reason for pirating. The point is that most game developers would do good to actually read them. There are literally millions of people out there begging the industry for a diferent model of consuming. Same applies for music, movies software etc. People are not happy the way things are going now, they want change. Yet most producers cling to the old method of selling their product. Something goes awefully wrong somewhere in the middle.

As to nice single player games, there are some. Fallout 3 seems to be good, but I have yet to play it. Last single player game I played was STALKER Shadows of Chernobyl. Yes, I bought it. One of the best games ever. Bioshock 2 is on the way, Diablo 3 (which I consider single player, some might disagree). There are still some nice ones out there, you just need to find them. I agree that there are less and less of them. Actually one of my wishes for the industry is that they make games SP only or MP only, and then sell them for half or 2/3rd of the price. I hate devvers spending a lot of time and money in a MP mode that I will never use. It makes the game more expensive and usually more buggy aswell (MP is complex as you can read on these forums).

Quoting Sly_Squash,

reply 6

I don't pirate DRM-free stuff. Ever since I bought spore, though, I'm not always so generous about the DRM stuff.

Yeah Even I brought Spore after trying the Pirate for 10 minutes

Broughts Demigod & The Digital Download.

Ironically the pirates helped make huge free advertising for Demigod.

It doesn't excuse pirating the game, BUT it seems it had a positive effect.

Stardock realised pirates would pirate regardless, but some of them might buy the game, so they went with no DRM and it seems to be paying off slowly, but surely.

Realitiy is, some pirates are potential customers.

Quoting nukemben,

reply 9

In my opinion games developers are near criminal now as the majority of them do not release finished games for PC. I have at least £400 worth of games stacked up in my cupboard which I purchased last year and played only to find they were ridden with problems.

Majority is an extremely harsh word to use for that, I don't think that's true at all, and you even mentioned later in your post how easy it is for developers to release patches and updates for PC Games, which is why it's never a static experience.

You're actually more likely to get stuck with a buggy unsupported game on a console, at least when you purchase a game on the PC you know there's a solid chance they'll be fixed (Even E:TW is a perfect example of this), as long as you're dealing with large companies.

That may be do, that is why I do not state that I speak for every 'pirate'. However the 'majority' that do not pay almost certainly would not have purchased the games anyway in my experience at college. The people whom introduced me to pirating never paid for them. They used Proxy servers and everything so they experienced the whole games free of charge. They had no morals and yes, should be obliterated as it is just plain stealing.

With regards to not believing in people that say they only use them as demo's. Well you are entitled to your own opinion, however that is the main reason for myself posting here. To hopefully help some people restore their faith in humanity!

You made a post called "'Pirate' here!", then continued to tell us why pirates are cool people who only steal games to test them, then promise to pay for it!

Again, your argument that people who pirate "would never have bought it anyway" is totally moot, neither of us can make a claim to prove either side because it's all theory, but if you really think gamers wouldn't buy games if piracy didn't exist, I dunno what to say to you.

Boasting about being a prolific pirate isn't the best way to get the community onside and "restore faith in humanity!", I'm pretty sure the majority of us now just think you're a cheap bastard. It's also excruciatingly ironic that you say things like other people who pirate have no morals, are thieves and should be obliterated, but you doing it is totally fine because it was for the greater good right? Right. If you reread half the things you say, you'll understand why I use the words skewed/twisted justification so much in reply to you.

With regards to having to purchase the game to play online, that is not true. There are ways round it, even the demigod download I used prior to purchasing the game had full insctructions on how to access an online 'pirate' community. I personnaly do not use those bits as it is over stepping the 'demo' mark for me.

Single player games, I have no idea about as I only buy them on consoles. Only good solo games seem to be released on them....So your point is most probably valid! (I think the real reason is that PC's only real triumph over consoles, is because they were the first to have online capabilty and it is very easy to adapt any computer game to support online and apply patches, as opposed to consoles where to the best of my knowledge it seems to be much harder to get a working online community and it is much harder to distribute patches as game data is all stored on read only media)

Demigod is so easy to get working on something like Gameranger because it contains absolutely no DRM whatsoever, other games are not so easy, and most gamers (pirates or not) want to be part of the main community, since "cracked" fake-LAN communities are a) Terrible, Tiny and c) Old. Even Demigod, a game with no DRM, still operates on the original version of Demigod on Gameranger/Hamachi etc.

A good example is CoD4, I know people who pirate 95% of their games, who bought that, purely for the Multiplayer. There are ways around not playing online officially, but it's rare, usually hard to do, and comes with all the stipulations listed above.

There's no point discussing the SP argument further, since you seemingly either play SP titles exclusively on console, or pirate them on PC, so it's a waste of time to argue that with you. The reason SP games are more widespread on the console isn't the immersiveness factor you're trying to propagate, piracy is a huge chunk of it.

That is news to me, if every retailer offered this then piracy = solved, even my case. I would never need to 'demo' a pc game again if I knew the game was garbage I would be able to return it. As far as I knew, once you had purchased a piece of software you were stuck with it due to CD Keys etc. I assume this is if the game is purchased direct as opposed to going through a 3rd party retailer?

But at the same time I disagree with these types of policies as I know people exploit them. Playing through the whole game in a week then returning them etc.

It only works because Stardock are hands-on enough to ensure refunded games have their CD Keys banned, and you can get a refund if you buy it at a gamestore, you just send it to Stardock through the mail with your receipt and they refund you what you paid. The time limits for refunds are as follows (I believe):

Digital Purchase w/ Credit/Debit Card = 90 days refund option.

Digital Purchase w/ PayPal = 60 days refund option.

Retail Store Purchase = 30 days refund option.

By any reckoning, Stardock can't say fairer than that, I could continue to play Demigod for 80 days and still get my money back, which is why people pirating this game drives me mad.

I do not trust reviews anymore, Empire Total War was given 95%, 9/10 etc etc on many well established magazines and websites. When it arrived I just could not believe it. Neither could thousands of other users now asking for their money back on the forums, which of course they will not get as the vast majority of companies will not offer any money back guarentee.

Again the SP issue I cannot comment on as for me, PC = Online Multiplayer with Teamspeak, forums etc. Console = Big TV with immersive surround sound and a control with all the buttons to hand and curtains drawn. With no crashes to desktop/hardware worries whilst I am immersed in my own little solo world.

That's why I specifically mentioned Metacritic, because it's super easy to go there, and even though a game might be listed with a 90 score, you can go down and read the summary of reviews of those who scored it low, and more importantly, why.

I'll concede that sometimes there are games that get really good reviews and a high Metascore and still suck, but that's such a minority, it takes 5 minutes to work out if a game that's rated high is there for reasons you agree with or not.

Your console thing is fine, but it's also the exact reason you shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.

That is true, but my point in posting here was my personal little attempt to restore some faith in humanity and compliment them on such a resoundingly good job as I am really impressed. They are making some pretty groundbreaking changes to the way PC Gaming could work in my opinion.. So yes, for them to sue me would be a bit of a blow to the face. I could have made a fake account etc, used a proxy and what not, but I am young and still have enough faith to believe that sometimes people can see both sides of the coin.

You'll almost undoubtedly completely get away with it, especially considering even if they banned you they refund you, Stardock are really a company you want to rob huh? Faceless bastards right?

Indeed

I'm glad we agree.

i think all piraters should be sued

Quoting twifightDG,

reply 4

Quoting SyDaemon, reply 2While I question the justification for your acts of software piracy, I find it encouraging to know that Stardock's approach to their consumer base is yielding fruit. Many others would not have such a code of conduct though, which is just the reality of the human condition.

In any case, welcome to the game!

Justification or not, I 'pirated'* this game to check it out and I bought it. I would never had bought this if I hadn't checked it out first. Even more ironically, the first time I heard about the game was in a post on a gameforum about how mucht this game has been pirated. The thing that caught my eye was the fact that the game does not have DRM on it. And voila, 3 weeks later I spent 40$ on it.

* the term pirate has become one of the most subjective words in existance today. 90% of my 'pirates' are like a glorified demo. The last 2 games I pirated I ended up buying.

I know exactly where you're coming from and am guilty of doing similar in the past (try then buy). The thing is that it's all too easy to simply enjoy the game in all its glory (especially if it's single player only) and "forget" to purchase the retail product because there was no longer a point in doing so.

When this happens, it really all depends on the person to honor the dev's effort and make the purchase anyway, or just shrug it off as yet another just-this-one case.

Furthermore, it's not as if there's some internationally enforced rule to dictate just how much enjoyment one must derive from the pirated copy to warrant a purchase. How much must I like the game to spur me into buying it? There can be countless excuses one can weave to justify not going ahead to make the purchase.

I just want to say that it's a fine line we're threading and the "buy then try" approach, though better than hard core "why buy when I can pirate" mentality, is still poor justification for pirating a game, especially when demos are available. If you consider Stardock's refund policy, it completely ceases to be any justification at all.

Quoting Hogo91,

reply 12

Quoting Sly_Squash,
reply 6
I don't pirate DRM-free stuff. Ever since I bought spore, though, I'm not always so generous about the DRM stuff.

Yeah Even I brought Spore after trying the Pirate for 10 minutes

Broughts Demigod & The Digital Download.

Not what I'm saying. Spore is an awful game with hideous DRM protection (though they relaxed it a bit). I regret buying it more than any game, and at time of release the retail version was just plain gimped compared to the warez.

I used to pirate games back when I didn't have the money to afford all the games that I wanted due to college etc. However I still probably own more games than 90% of ppl on this forum (nearing 200). Does that mean my piracy was negative in any way? Obviously not.

Don't let this forum's pirate-haters get to you.

They usually sue children for laughing too loud, vote republican and think Jack Bauer should ask Piratebay for their server-logs.

OH GOD PLEASE NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! NOT ANOTHER PIRATE THREAD!!!!! OH FOR THE LOVE!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

I'll quickly sum up the rest of this thread so it can be quickly forgotten about:

Pirating software is the only way to get free demos and try the game so it's good.
Pirating software is bad because it's against the law.
That may be but how do they expect people to get software when they aren't rich?
They should wait until they have the money. They are stealing from the software companies.
But pirates don't 'take' anything so it can't be stealing.
You can't change the definition of stealing to suit your own pirating ways.
You're a noob.
You're a jerk.
....
....
And ever on and on and on.

/thread

Stardock won me over with Sins of a Solar Empire.

I bought demigod on release without thinking twice and have no regrets.

And I'm patiently waiting for the next Sins mini-expansion after Entrenchment.

try before you buy is a great practice, I do it with music and games all the time. Bought my self a copy of demi with out trying only because I love supreme commander and stardock.

Will never buy another Ubisoft or EA game those companies crap on the consumer and release garbage 90% of the time.

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

You're actually more likely to get stuck with a buggy unsupported game on a console, at least when you purchase a game on the PC you know there's a solid chance they'll be fixed (Even E:TW is a perfect example of this), as long as you're dealing with large companies.

Fortunately for me I do not think I have ever had a console game with a bug that I have come across. And with regards to a solid chance of a game being fixed if dealing with large companies. I have seen one man developers put tonnes of effort into the smallest community games and then the largest companies put no effort into their games. EA and Godfather 2 if anyone has tried that. (Note that is a single player PC Game that I bought last week(Impulse buy in HMV(wish I had tested it first...(Or as you say, read a review!)))

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

You made a post called "'Pirate' here!", then continued to tell us why pirates are cool people who only steal games to test them, then promise to pay for it!

Again, your argument that people who pirate "would never have bought it anyway" is totally moot, neither of us can make a claim to prove either side because it's all theory, but if you really think gamers wouldn't buy games if piracy didn't exist, I dunno what to say to you.

Boasting about being a prolific pirate isn't the best way to get the community onside and "restore faith in humanity!", I'm pretty sure the majority of us now just think you're a cheap bastard. It's also excruciatingly ironic that you say things like other people who pirate have no morals, are thieves and should be obliterated, but you doing it is totally fine because it was for the greater good right? Right. If you reread half the things you say, you'll understand why I use the words skewed/twisted justification so much in reply to you.

With regards to the post subject, it is related to the topic, if I knew that was to be judged I would have rethought it. And me suggesting that pirates are cool people whom steal games to test them. I did no such thing, I said that is what I do.

You may have misread the section regarding other people whom pirate. That example was from my own experiences from people I have met in RL. They all thouroughly sickened me as they all did pirate games and did not pay a penny. They also sponge off the goverment etc. (Not sure where you are from, but here in UK if you cant be bothered to work they pay you for it, give youaccomodation aswell, you may get the type of pirates I am talking about now)

Me saying pirating is totally fine? I do not think so. Some people suggested they did not understand how I could morally justify it. And I was explaining how I personally justify it to myself. To maybe give an insight into how some people work.

Again you are entitled to your opinion, you can think I am "Cheap". But if I have just purchased 3 copies to play 3 player LAN, then personally I see it as generous and that is what I intended to do in my first post, pat the publisher on the back and to express my joy. I have the spare cash to buy numerous copies as a result of saving money on other games I have tested which I would have otherwise bought. That £120 now in stardocks pocket hopefully helping to pay their for all of the time they have spent on the game as well as the time they are STILL investing into the game unlike some of the publishers I used to purchase games from.

I would have missed this game completely if I had not first tested it like this.

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

Demigod is so easy to get working on something like Gameranger because it contains absolutely no DRM whatsoever, other games are not so easy, and most gamers (pirates or not) want to be part of the main community, since "cracked" fake-LAN communities are a) Terrible, Tiny and c) Old. Even Demigod, a game with no DRM, still operates on the original version of Demigod on Gameranger/Hamachi etc.

A good example is CoD4, I know people who pirate 95% of their games, who bought that, purely for the Multiplayer. There are ways around not playing online officially, but it's rare, usually hard to do, and comes with all the stipulations listed above.

There's no point discussing the SP argument further, since you seemingly either play SP titles exclusively on console, or pirate them on PC, so it's a waste of time to argue that with you. The reason SP games are more widespread on the console isn't the immersiveness factor you're trying to propagate, piracy is a huge chunk of it.

I was only saying I know there are ways round it. I do not delve into pirated multilayer as it oversteps the mark for me.

Yes, I made it clear that I do not know much about SP PC titles, but that was my reason for playing them on console as opposed to PC which I gave my reasons for doing so.

"since you seemingly either play SP titles exclusively on console, or pirate them on PC" - I would rather you do not just assume things about me, else I can see why you can only look at people whom want to try products before buying them as thieves. I will list the games I purchased purely for their Solo experiences more recently. Based on the grounds I assumed they would be worth the money/are worth the money.

Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl
007 Quantum of Solace
Crysis
Crysis Warhead
Oblivion
FEAR Platinum Collection
FPS Creator
Warhammer Mark of Chaos
Rome Total War Gold
Rome Total War Alexander
Frontlines Fuel of War
Fallout 3
Gears of War
Defense Grid: The Awakening
Harvest Massive Encounter
Trials 2: Second Edition

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

It only works because Stardock are hands-on enough to ensure refunded games have their CD Keys banned, and you can get a refund if you buy it at a gamestore, you just send it to Stardock through the mail with your receipt and they refund you what you paid. The time limits for refunds are as follows (I believe):

Digital Purchase w/ Credit/Debit Card = 90 days refund option.

Digital Purchase w/ PayPal = 60 days refund option.

Retail Store Purchase = 30 days refund option.

By any reckoning, Stardock can't say fairer than that, I could continue to play Demigod for 80 days and still get my money back, which is why people pirating this game drives me mad.

Yes, Stardock most certainly cannot say fairer than that. Thanks for the info, I will be sure to check a developers websites to see whether or not they are willing to enforce such policies in future.

I still however strongly disagree with this system. On average the PC Games that I buy, I get bored of within a couple of weeks. So I could go back and get a full refund to purchase the next game. Go back, full refund and then maybe even exchange it for Demigod or something again. You could obtain a brand new box for the game every month from a retail store if you wanted to!? And over time the price would decrease so you get even more for your money!. If I did not uninstall it I could even continue with my old save games. At the moment the first pirate can buy a copy of demigod, crack it, then get a full refund!? Also cheaters could potentially massively increase, buy the game, cheat until cd key banned. Full refund, buy again with a new cd key. Obviously everything I just said is morally incorrect so I would not be doing it. But it means that my friends the proper pirates are going to enjoy the full benefits of every game stardock releases if they want to, even the full online multiplayer as opposed to the pirate ones. A bold decision indeed to have this policy in my opinion.

*EDIT* I have just read through their returns policy and all of the above things I have said about the downsides of their system are invalid. There appears to be a lot of small print and it does not look to be like a "no quibbles guarantee" so if you could supply a direct link to the page you mention that would be awesome.

I am reading https://store.stardock.com/policy.aspx

"*Please note that most Stardock programs have demo versions available for preview prior to buying. Since we do offer shareware versions and customer service is available to answer any questions about the software before and after ordering, full refunds will not be issued for functional software that does not live up to your expectations. We DO NOT have a "try before you buy" policy; this is why we offer shareware versions of our programs for evaluation. Please use the shareware versions prior to purchase if you are unsure if you want to purchase the product."

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

That's why I specifically mentioned Metacritic, because it's super easy to go there, and even though a game might be listed with a 90 score, you can go down and read the summary of reviews of those who scored it low, and more importantly, why.

I'll concede that sometimes there are games that get really good reviews and a high Metascore and still suck, but that's such a minority, it takes 5 minutes to work out if a game that's rated high is there for reasons you agree with or not.

Personally I have found the minority of poor games that are managing to pass through the system nowadays definitely appears to be on the rise. And good games like Demigod I would not have even found/tried if I had stuck to reviews. It was purely as it was in the top #100 torrents. And I had read an article about it being DRM free.

Quoting Oww,

reply 14

Your console thing is fine, but it's also the exact reason you shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.

Neither of us know the real reasons why developers do not develop good solo games on PC. I highly doubt it is due to piracy. Look at Spore, that was solo and would have done INCREDIBLY well if EA had not destroyed it with DRM. I purchased 2 digital copies and a retail version of Spore. Fortunately for me and my retail copy I was able to play on release day. My brothers were not so lucky, the 2 digital versions were not able to register until about a week later. In the run up till then I downloaded a pirated version to keep them from bickering over who would get to use the game first. With any other game I would have been able to install my retail version on 2 their pc's as well in order to keep them going. However I did not want to do this as obviously you only get 3 activations of the game... So I would have used the whole of my games licences up because they over did the DRM.

And DRM is beside the point on that one. I believe Spore still did very well, regardless of the massively negative press! So solo games can exist alongside piracy.

So try not to be so offensive in your wording, yes I do not know the in's and out's of the industry, but I can judge and see what it looks like from my view, as can you. "Your console thing is fine, but it's also the exact reason you shouldn't comment on things you don't know about." Lord help me.

Note that there are probably more grammatical errors in this than one can count etc as I answered whilst serving customers and it is quite hard to read in such a small text box!

Well I might aswell try to give this thread a positive spin again so:

Does anyone else think the "not satisfied, money back" guarantee is not well known enough? I had seen frogboy mention it unnoticably once or twice before, but didn't really know about it till this thread. I think they should advertise with it a bit more. Maybe they don't do that on purpose, as many people might play it for a month or two and then ask a refund. But I think it's a unique selling point they have atm, and they should advertise with it on the front page. I couldn't find a mention of it in 2 or 3 clicks in the purchasing process, so they should highlight it more!

Quoting twifightDG,

reply 24

Well I might aswell try to give this thread a positive spin again so:

Does anyone else think the "not satisfied, money back" guarantee is not well known enough? I had seen frogboy mention it unnoticably once or twice before, but didn't really know about it till this thread. I think they should advertise with it a bit more. Maybe they don't do that on purpose, as many people might play it for a month or two and then ask a refund. But I think it's a unique selling point they have atm, and they should advertise with it on the front page. I couldn't find a mention of it in 2 or 3 clicks in the purchasing process, so they should highlight it more!

Hey, after they mentioned this and used this as the grounds to their argument I thought I had better look into it as it seemed as if there would be far to many down sides to a no quibbles money back guarentee system.

Copied from my earlier post which I have just edited...

"*EDIT* I have just read through their returns policy and all of the above things I have said about the downsides of their system are invalid. There appears to be a lot of small print and it does not look to be like a "no quibbles guarantee" so if you could supply a direct link to the page you mention that would be awesome.

I am reading https://store.stardock.com/policy.aspx

"*Please note that most Stardock programs have demo versions available for preview prior to buying. Since we do offer shareware versions and customer service is available to answer any questions about the software before and after ordering, full refunds will not be issued for functional software that does not live up to your expectations. We DO NOT have a "try before you buy" policy; this is why we offer shareware versions of our programs for evaluation. Please use the shareware versions prior to purchase if you are unsure if you want to purchase the product.""

But YES, back to what I had originally intended this thread be about, think this will be my final word here until my copies turn up. Fantastic Job Stardock I will stick by your games for as long as you stick by your legions of fans!

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