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Demigod: Tuesday, May 19th

By on May 19, 2009 12:55:08 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1469

We were able to get the updated network update out yesterday and we turned the Pantheon and Skirmish to try to do 3 on 3 matches. balcony-officeSince so many people seem anti-bot, we are looking for ways to make that happen but the problem is, if people insist on human only then we need to provide more feedback to the user. We already get complaints from people saying it takes “too long” to get into a skirmish game (a whopping 2 minutes).  So for people who insist on human only, we need ways to make them aware that the system is working but it might take several minutes.

Skirmish and Pantheon games aren’t just about finding some random group to have you play against. It uses your ELO (experience) rating to help match along with your location to try to put together the best match possible.

One of our frustrations (and this is one of the reasons I’m not a fan of MP games in the first place) is how inconsiderate some people are.  We spent a lot of time trying to figure out why people were getting “disconnected” right when a game starts.  Well, it turns out, from looking at the logs, is that some people, having only 2 on 2 or 3 vs. 3 where an AI player had to be substituted to fill in the gap that some people just quit right at the start.  I understand the rationale but it’s still objectifying other people’s time. I won’t debate people on the issue as I think it’s a matter of agreeing to disagree.

But bottom line is that if people want to have an idealized match, it’s likely going to take more than 2 minutes and the only way to make it take more than 2 minutes is to provide more feedback so that’s what the team is working on today.

Proxy tomorrow

So besides having more feedback telling you how many people are looking for games which lets us increase the time to find an ideal match, we also plan to have tomorrow’s update have the proxy server. This should eliminate the last problems for connectivity except for the case where people have multiple IP addresses which is still being worked on.

More info please

Some people have said “I used to be able to connect fine, now I can’t.”  We really  need data from those people in the form of their impulsereactor.log files (located in my documents\my games\gpg\demigod) which you can send to [email protected] with (ideally) a description of what happened and whether you used to be able to connect so we can see.  At this point, people shouldn’t be having any problems connecting other than those with router issues.

The Documentary

Once we concluded that we were going to have to write our own multiplayer system for Demigod and that it would have to be done not in a matter of months but a matter of days or a week or two we knew that crazy hours were going to be involved. So we video’d it.  We hope to release in the next week or so a documentary video so you can see the innards of Stardock and what was involved.

Here are some images from it:

 

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Marketing meeting

 

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Management meeting in late April when it was decided to assign the Impulse team to develop a new system.

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My daughter Ashley visits me at work

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Our chief architect, Jeff Bargmann and his Impulse team merges with the Elemental development leads to create a new network system.  The application team had already gotten somewhat involved by creating the “Impulse Overlay” that allowed us to inject new screens into Demigod.

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Elemental team can’t resist but show off what they’re doing.

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Found a baby turtle while taking a walk outside

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May 20, 2009 1:47:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RamzaBehoulve,



Quoting PhantomOfAres,
reply 22

We should be on top of the devs, get them to fix things we think should be fixed, make recommendations, etc.  But arguing about what you think it should or shouldn't compare to is worthless.  Bottom line:  You want to play or you don't.  If you do, have fun, give the devs productive input.  If not, please go away.


I'm not the one who went into "don't compare Stardock with Blizzard" mode.

And read my posts before answering. This isn't about me.

But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone? Since number of users already seem to be a problem, I doubt encouraging such action is the smartest way to go about it.

Do you really know everyone who will play or is playing demigod? Do you really? really really? No I didn't think so.

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May 20, 2009 1:58:23 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting PhantomOfAres,

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 23
But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone? Since number of users already seem to be a problem, I doubt encouraging such action is the smartest way to go about it.
Okay, I wrote up a big long thing, but I'll keep it short.  Average joe user might decide not to play.  That sucks.  If they want to know why, Frogboy's doing his best to explain why.  If people don't care, they don't care.  All you're doing is insulting, and I respectfully ask that if you have a problem (like "It's not connecting as fast as I'd like/expect"), then just say so.

Where did I insult anyone? Please, point me to the post where I insulted someone.

All you have been doing is trying to counter factful argumentation with feelings and arbitrary rubbish.

If anything, you are the one insluting me by not reading my posts, otherwise you'd know this isn't about me since the beginning. There is a big one with a lot of information up there.

"We should not do this, we should not do that". "Stardock isn't Blizzard", "Stardock are great, they'll fix everything".

Enough already and come back to reality which is a slow and borderline not working matchmaking system for still a lot of people.

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May 20, 2009 2:06:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Gallifray,

Do you really know everyone who will play or is playing demigod? Do you really? really really? No I didn't think so.

To "as many people as I can" does not mean everyone?

Your point was? Right, none.

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May 20, 2009 2:44:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting RamzaBehoulve,



Quoting Gallifray,
reply 1

Do you really know everyone who will play or is playing demigod? Do you really? really really? No I didn't think so.


To "as many people as I can" does not mean everyone?

Your point was? Right, none.

 

But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone?

It would seem from that comment you know everyone. but enough flaming and trolling and fighting lets get back to the real point. Can I have that baby turtle?

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May 20, 2009 2:47:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm pretty sure one of the DGs in the works is a baby-turtle.

Won't that be a rip-off of Kings's Bounty : the Legend ?

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May 20, 2009 3:01:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I think there are a few options that can be considered regarding the AI replacement

 

1. The AI can be buffed artifically, like the nightmare level AI gets gold/exp at a quicker rate and is thus harder to kill.  Pros, they AI isn't just an XP/gold fountain for other players.  Cons, Other players feel like the AI is too strong and is cheating by getting more stuff than is possible for the human players.

 

2. They can reduce or eliminate the amount of gold/xp that AIs are worth.  Pros, No more gold fountain for enemy players.  Cons, Team that is down a player still has an ineffective team mate.

 

3. No AI at all for ranked games.  Pros, no more fountain of XP/gold.  Cons, Completely unfair teams.  Person left alone or one short will most likely lose, especially at the highest competitive levels.

 

4. Give control of the dropped player's demigod to the remaining players.  In times where there are more than one, they can decide who gets control of it at the time. Pros, Remaining demigod is still controlled by a human. Cons, remaining demigod is still controlled by a human who now has 2 demigods to control and worry about.

 

I think the best option honestly is 4.  While there is still a slight disadvantage from a human controlling 2 demigods, most RTS veterans are more than capable of watching more than 1 unit.  Especially if they have no economy/buildings to worry about.  Give extra hotkeys that allow selection of additional demigods and it wouldn't be all that difficult.  In fact, it could even be an advantage if you keep the two demigods close together and working in tandem.

 

Anyway, I agree this is a big issue for most players.  You can't strategize with an AI player, they just do their thing.  That makes it impossible to co-ordinate anything unless the human sticks with the computer player at all times.  Personally I don't care, I just want to play the game.  Bots, humans, whatever.  I don't force the players of an opposing team to quit if they are down a human.  Additonally, I stick with a game where I have an AI with me and see how it goes.  Either way it gives me opportunity to practice and improve my game.

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May 20, 2009 3:10:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

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May 20, 2009 3:20:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Aww @ daugher. She's so cute. She must be disappointed that daddy has to work so much. But I'm sure she'll get the personel morale up!

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May 20, 2009 3:36:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

People need to care about "excuses"... we live in the real world with real limitations.

Demigod in my experience is *not* a failed multiplayer effort. Yes, it is unfortunate that things still need to be worked out. But the point in referencing something like WarCraft 3 and Blizzard is (to my mind at least) a point of resources: does anyone think that Stardock and GPG can match the awesome assets wieldable by a company like Blizzard? Yes, cash isn`t everything, but we need to temper expectations just a little bit.

The developers and publishers try to accommodate us... maybe we could try to accommodate them a little.

That said, Stardock and GPG are on it. 90 hour weeks are horrendous, no matter what it is you are working on. Work is work. If people need to step back and take a breath over ragequitters (poor sportsmanship being a plague of the Interlag Age) then surely the same might be done for remaining connectivity issues. Which again are being worked on.

As for A.I. players, a balance is necessary. Even with a large player base, A.I. is vital in order to insure that players play the game sometime this YEAR... I certainly do not want to wait 20 to 30 minutes when other human players are simply unavailable. Yes, A.I. players can sometimes be 'farmed'. But thats not to say the game is then unfun. I would make sure that if one side has an A.I. player, that the other side has one as well. Equal hobbling, if that is the perspective.

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May 20, 2009 5:01:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So, no patch today?

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May 20, 2009 5:07:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is without doubt, the worst multiplayer experience I've ever had. Now bear in mind, the only games I play are RTS and MMOs, and I've been playing them since Ultima Online, that says a lot.

I've tried to play for over an hour tonight. I've had 5 connections and NONE of them had a balanced team. I've quit all of them as soon as I started even if I was on the advantaged team.

Not only that, every game I've been in, other people have been complaining about non-balanced teams.

AIs are still in a multiplayer games. If people want to play against AI, play single player skirmish. You can get a game instantly.

As soon as you see that the other team has more/less bots than you in multiplayer, you might as well just quit. One side has a blatant advantage. What's the point in playing?

It's just totally pointless to play in Pantheon. 

I'll try till this w/e and then give it up.

(yes I've forwarded all necessary ports)

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May 20, 2009 5:25:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I've tried today one Pantheon match, and after 5 minutes of waiting to find a game, i found myself in a 3v2 match, 3 humans (including me) vs 2 AI. Hilarious, isn't it? So yeah, as it is now, Pantheon is pointless. 

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May 20, 2009 5:40:16 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I have played 2 pantheon games and been in a 3v2 situation... 3 human versus 2 human. That sucks no matter how you slice it and lost bad...what would you expect?

Oh an this happened today.

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May 20, 2009 6:06:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Been trying for another hour whilst watching Independence Day on TV... Demigod MP experience makes that film look great!!!

One game started. 2 humans+1 AI v 3 AI. Rage quit.

I also got a new error message tho whilst trying to connect.

A dialogue box that just had an OK button!

I clicked it.

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May 21, 2009 5:49:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I have a solution for the long waiting time: Just let me play {random mini game} like tetris while I am waiting and I don't care to wait for another 3 minutes.

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May 21, 2009 11:02:49 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Aww @ daugher. She's so cute. She must be disappointed that daddy has to work so much. But I'm sure she'll get the personel morale up!

She does miss daddy due to the crazy amount of work so that's why we visit Stardock...a lot.  She is great for morale.  You can't help but smile at that girl.

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