The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Demigod: Pre Weekend report

By on May 8, 2009 12:09:04 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Updates at bottom

This will be a little rambling so hang in there.

image

Sales

Sales of Demigod have remained very strong. A lot of work was done this week to help Atari with the international release of the game. Reviews have been generally quite favorable.  I loved the Xplay review in particular.

Overall, sales of Demigod are about where Sins of a Solar Empire is, far above Galactic Civilizations were at this point.  But it’s way too early to tell the game’s overall success. 

Keeping Demigod successful

If you read  the forums, it becomes pretty clear who the people are that have bought Stardock games in the past and people who are new to Stardock games. So let me address that here.

Many users say that the support of the game is up to the game’s developer only. Stardock, being only the publisher (we’re Paramount Pictures to Gas Powered Games’ JJ Abrams). 

With Supreme Commander, THQ was the publisher. With Dungeon Siege, Microsoft is the publisher.

And while I won’t deem to speak on behalf of Gas Powered Games, I will say that the combination of developer and publisher makes all the difference in the world. 

Game Updates: This week

From GPG’s side of things, we’ve gotten two game updates this week from developer Gas Powered Games and you wouldn’t believe how much they got done in a week.  People with sound problems on lower end CPUs? No problem, GPG went back and re-did huge parts of the sound system and even the original tracks to help with that.  Favor points and favor items? Both GPG and Stardock had to put in work to point things to the updated servers (those who have been reading this awhile know the issue there). Want your achievements stored on the server instead? Yep, they did that too (instead of a fragile local file). Even balance like Life’s child removing inner grace on Sedna, yep, changed.  And that’s in one week.

When a developer makes new changes, they have to go through QA. Most publishers have a very specific (and increasingly finite) budget for post-release QA.  So even if the developer makes some great change, the publisher may not release it because there’s no QA for it.  On Stardock games, we have essentially no limit to how many updates we’re willing to do if the developer provides them.  When Ironclad sends a new update for Sins of a Solar Empire, we put it through its paces and then release it.

Now one thing that helps with that big time is that Impulse (and Stardock Central before it) allow us to distribute updates marked as beta.  This lets people who want to try the latest and greatest to get an early shot even if there might be bugs.  There’s a beta of Demigod up right now that has new features and such but it also buggier than the released version.

We plan to refresh both the beta release and the release version this week still. The beta version will get the new Demigod build that GPG sent plus the connectivity updates. The release version will likely only have the connectivity update.

Game Updates: Near-Term

One of the best parts of publishing Demigod has been working with Chris Taylor.  People ask me what Chris is like in “real life”. I can tell you he is one of the most awesome people I’ve ever met.  He’s full of energy and boundless optimism which works as a great counter to me – I’m full of energy but I always filled with doom and gloom as my journal entries probably make clear.

We’ve brainstormed on all kinds of ways to keep making Demigod cooler and cooler.  Moreover, the GPG Demigod team is simply fantastic.  Mike Marr, the lead designer is an incredible game designer.  And I don’t say that lightly.  Even if GPG people don’t post much on the forums, it’s only because they’re so busy reading them and doing something about them. They’re listening.

So one of the future updates we talked about is internally called Demigod: Clan Wars.  This is where people will be able to form up clans and battle each other on the Pantheon. Think of it like the existing Pantheon except that instead of choosing light or dark, you’ve chosen a clan and your clan is on one side and another clan is matched against you with the system keeping score of who is winning.

Connectivity for people who have trouble connecting

Most of you know that my personal focus has been on the connection stuff which means a lot of these journal entries have focused exclusively on that.  I apologize if I sound single minded but the issue is a big deal and must be solved.  I’ve thrown everything we have at it these past few weeks and even added myself to it yesterday to start learning more about the architecture of these things.  Next week, we’re flying the lead developer of Raknet (the network library licensed) to Stardock to work with on on this.

I’ve also been talking to the creator of Game Ranger about ways we can better work together.  Those of you who know me know that I’m the opposite of “NIV” (Not invented here).  My interest is in making sure people are having a fun with our games. Lots of people are playing Demigod games on Game Ranger right now without incident. 

Answering some FAQs I get

I’ve been getting a lot of email and I did get a chance to read some of them (sorry to all of you I don’t respond to, I’ll try to do better when I’m back to working normal-ish hours).

Q: “Stardock is exagerating[sic] Demigod’s MP issues in order to get press coverage! The game’s MP works fine!!!111!”

A: Well first off, I don’t subscribe to “any publicity is good publicity”.  Second, sure, most casual people loading up the released version, hitting skirmish or pantheon or playing with a few friends online works fine. But the FACT is, the built in matchmaking is NOT fine. And the match-making not being fine has nothing to do with piracy (we lost a week because of having to migrate servers due to it but that’s a different issue).  The MP match making is not fine because it doesn’t handle the number of users trying to use the currently architected NAT system acceptably. The solution is to re-architect it but as people reading these journals know, it’s not something that can be done quickly.

Q: “The MP match making in Demigod is no worse or better than any other typical RTS [insert game here].”

A:  The experience is worse because those other typical RTS’s have a lot more single player content. As a result, a lot of people who don’t normally play online are attempting to do so. Second, IMO the custom game handling in Demigod is worse than other RTSs in that the custom game match making is flakey and frustrating.  In other RTS’s it tends to work or not work.

Look, folks, if you release a game that is MP centric and has built in match making it just “has to work”. No one forced us to make Demigod so reliant on MP match-making. There was no gun to our head. So it’s up to us to just “make it work”. 

Q: Stardock mentioned sending out 50% off coupons for Demigod to people who bought the game before May 11th. When will those go out?

A: Probably end of next week.

Q: What else does Stardock plan to do for Demigod players?

A: Our focus mid-term will be to keep growing the MP community of Demigod.  So what we’ll be doing is sending lots of unique coupons to players. I.e. N% off on anything on Impulse type stuff.  So users who are active in Demigod will keep getting lots of heavily discounted stuff.

Q: What can I expect this weekend?

A: If you are willing to try the beta versions, we expect to release build 111 of the EXE along with our connectivity updates.  If you prefer the released version, we expect to release just the connectivity update.

Q: What should my expectations be of the connectivity update?

A: We’ve had to scale them back a little bit.  We had a huge breakthru last weekend but the time to take us to integrate that into Demigod itself is not incredibly fast (we’re external to Demigod so a lot of tricks have to be used to do some of what we do).  But below are some of the things we expect the new connectivity update to do:

  • A lot of people who couldn’t connect to games should be able to connect to games.
  • Getting into the lobby should be very fast
  • When players get into the lobby in custom games, they will initially only be connected to the host and have yellow, red or 0 pings to everyone else while the system connects them up.  Some people won’t be able to connect and the host will have to kick them (this is exactly how it was in Supreme Commander).  But it should work fine for most people.  Suggestion, if you get kicked and want to retry, wait a few seconds before rejoining.

Q: What about the proxy servers?

A: The proxy servers are up. However, the connectivity update does not use them. A subsequent one will but the proxy servers won’t be useful until we solve the “flakey” issue I mentioned earlier but many people who think they will need a proxy server may find the update works for them.

Q: What about Pantheon and Skirmish?

A: The plan is that people who don’t have much experience will have bots in their games and people with experience will only play against other humans. This determination is based on who is selected as “host”.  We want to make this more flexible in the future but we’re currently having the situation where new players like having bots and people who know what they’re doing don’t.  When we do clan wars, bots will not be allowed at all.

More to come as the day progresses.

 

Update: 9:48pm

This evening we got an even newer build from Gas Powered Games that addresses the issue of Demigods not chasing after a target after using an ability.  Since this change has been so heavily requested, we're going to integrate that into the beta build.  Once we finish integration and testing, we'll begin distributing it to our server farms.  We're still looking pretty good for this evening though - that's famous last words. -Brad

+912 Karma | 84 Replies
May 8, 2009 6:10:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Farcon,
Ok, I just downgraded to the current version and I see four open custom games. Do I have connectivity issues, that I don't see more games?

 

Sorry to tell you that this is just pretty typical of the custom games list, albeit it has gotten worse since they started releasing these "beta versions" which slice up our tiny little community into smaller bits every time one emerges. One thing to consider, whether its a comfort or not, you really don't need to have a full list of games to find one to play. Essentially, there's only 3 common types of games running on the custom list these days: 2v2 Conquest  on Crucible, 3v3 Conquest on Cataract, or 4v4 Conquest on Leviathan. Any other combinations seem to cause whining and quitting.

May 8, 2009 6:20:48 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

2v2 Conquest  on Crucible, 3v3 Conquest on Cataract, or 4v4 Conquest on Leviathan. Any other combinations seem to cause whining and quitting.

Random...

May 8, 2009 6:23:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Quoting VyperXXX, reply 19If the games primary focus becomes multiplayer via game ranger, its a deal breaker for me. There is no way my friends are going to buy a game that has to be played via a third party. This is truely dissapointing news.
What news? We're just trying to make sure people have as many options as possible.

Perhaps news was a poor choice of words, but what I was getting at, is that more and more GameRanger is being reccomended and spotlighted and I think it's a bad idea. I understand that your priority is to make sure as many people can play as possible and sell more copies of the game, but I think it's only hurting the community.

I hate to say it, but I have little faith that once people go to gameranger, that they will come back to the "official" system, we are creatures of habit. Also add in that the number of pirates out weigh us in sheer volume, they will adapt, hack the patches, and soon everyone will play there simply because it has the most people.

I know there is no easy answer, I'm just getting concerned.

Quoting Dracil,
You realize a lot of games in the past partnered with 3rd parties for their multiplayer right?  Think Gamespy.


Yes I do, and when I think Gamespy I think fail. I've played the RTS genre quite extensively, and time after time I have watched great games dwindle and fade on systems like Gamespy. I really don't want to see DemiGod become another drink coaster. I purchased the game because it had an internal system.

May 8, 2009 6:46:51 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Frogboy,

Any chance we'll see a new beta tonight or is it too early to say?

May 8, 2009 6:51:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting pacov,
Frogboy,

Any chance we'll see a new beta tonight or is it too early to say?

 

I would say yes, but then I would have also said yes on wednesday or yesterday.

May 8, 2009 7:00:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Chris taylor... didn't he do wing commander, back in the day? or have I got the wrong guy?

 

Also, any chance of a frog-man demigod?   Tadpole minions that are useless at first but grow into stronger frog men with additional ranks?

May 8, 2009 7:02:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Still have yet to connect to anyone ever. Something new though, tried to get into pantheon, after a few minutes of attempting to connect to the suitable match the game crashed with an unhandled exception.

May 8, 2009 7:25:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
May 8, 2009 7:53:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

While I have faith in Stardock's good intentions to patch this game to working condition, we have been having breakthroughs and "almost there" etc etc for several weeks now. Im starting to doubt Stardocks ability to fix this, and whether it is even fixable given the p2p design of the multiplayer. Theres only so long you can go on for being told that "were almost there" before you start to doubt what you're being told.

If you dont know what to do to fix it, Id much sooner be told so and just leave the game and come back to it in 3 months than this continual anticipation for the next patch that fixes it. Supposedly you had a breakthrough last weekend. Well its a week gone past and I dont see any results. The multiplayer is just as flakey as it as at the end of the first week.

I appreciate feed back on what's happening to fix the game, but its starting to look awfully like this is just a way to buy time, where in fact you really have no idea how close you are to fixing it.

I hope Im wrong, but the longer this goes on the more I cant help thinking it.

May 8, 2009 8:00:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Q: What can I expect this weekend?

A: If you are willing to try the beta versions, we expect to release build 111 of the EXE along with our connectivity updates.  If you prefer the released version, we expect to release just the connectivity update.

Q: What should my expectations be of the connectivity update?

A: We’ve had to scale them back a little bit.  We had a huge breakthru last weekend but the time to take us to integrate that into Demigod itself is not incredibly fast (we’re external to Demigod so a lot of tricks have to be used to do some of what we do).  But below are some of the things we expect the new connectivity update to do:


A lot of people who couldn’t connect to games should be able to connect to games.
Getting into the lobby should be very fast
When players get into the lobby in custom games, they will initially only be connected to the host and have yellow, red or 0 pings to everyone else while the system connects them up.  Some people won’t be able to connect and the host will have to kick them (this is exactly how it was in Supreme Commander).  But it should work fine for most people.  Suggestion, if you get kicked and want to retry, wait a few seconds before rejoining.

 

I'm really looking forward to this update. At this point I'm thinking that we won't see it this weekend though. People need rest etc.. Keep up the good work though.

As well as the connectivity it would be nice if the game didn't hang with every failed connection. It would also be nice if the crash errors were handled better as well. As it is after each failed connection I have to press the windows key and fish around in the dark for a right click- close that I can't see or sometimes CTRL-ALT DEL works, at least I can avoid using the power button to get out! Even though it takes time and dedication to get a MP game on it is worth it!

May 8, 2009 8:02:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Vladesch,
While I have faith in Stardock's good intentions to patch this game to working condition, we have been having breakthroughs and "almost there" etc etc for several weeks now. Im starting to doubt Stardocks ability to fix this, and whether it is even fixable given the p2p design of the multiplayer. Theres only so long you can go on for being told that "were almost there" before you start to doubt what you're being told.

Generally I would tend to agree with you. However in this situation there is one caveat that is the saving grace - so to speak. That is that the updates are continuous, rather clear with the issues spelled out and have corrective plans included. Simply put if one understands what is going on they should not have issues with the state of the reports or the "promise" of the progress.

May 8, 2009 8:55:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'm one of those lucky guys in Europe who seems to have no problems online at all. YAY!

Love the updates! Love the journals! LOVE STARDOCK AND GPG!

May 8, 2009 9:51:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

YAY for updates, cool that is worth getting the beta for. ETA 4 hours from now?

May 8, 2009 9:54:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Just updated it.  

Playing with the new GPG build.  So far so good. I'm still worried about the issue that some people had in build 108 where it froze on launching. We hadn't seen that internally so we're working to reproduce and see if build 113 fixes that.

The connectivity build is still being worked on. Custom games are working pretty well but we have to update the way skirmish and pantheon games are connected (now, you get into the lobby if you just connect to the host and in skirmish and pantheon, it would just launch the game as soon as 1 person connected so you'd only have 1 on 1 games which is obviously not acceptable).

I'll keep posting.  In the meantime, go see Star Trek. I went this afternoon and it was great.

May 8, 2009 10:08:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
I see very important piece being fixed.
May 8, 2009 10:15:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Just updated it.  

 In the meantime, go see Star Trek. I went this afternoon and it was great.

Heh... wish I could have seen that already.  Time to fire up the 'ol custom game and check back in an hour to see if we are live with anything new. 

May 8, 2009 10:22:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

We're still looking pretty good for this evening though - that's famous last words. -Brad

 

EXCELLENT!

May 8, 2009 10:27:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

In my case, i've tested in a clean Win 7 OS, just drivers and Demigod, and it still spikes in >4v4 games. So it's not a software problem. I also don't have a router, just cable modem. It's really bad when it spikes like that, maybe i'll make a video and post it in another thread, when i'll have the time.
And what stops someone else from having the AV software...?  Or your router / ISP from being the one doing packet sniffing?

(Edit:  Well, router would be hiccuping on the P2P, ISP would be 'shaping' the P2P traffic...)

May 8, 2009 10:39:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Update: 9:48pm

This evening we got an even newer build from Gas Powered Games that addresses the issue of Demigods not chasing after a target after using an ability.  Since this change has been so heavily requested, we're going to integrate that into the beta build.  Once we finish integration and testing, we'll begin distributing it to our server farms.  We're still looking pretty good for this evening though - that's famous last words. -Brad

Would this help at all with the non-responsive issue? PLEASE SAY YES!

May 8, 2009 10:46:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

can't wait!!!!!!

May 8, 2009 11:31:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

He’s full of energy and boundless optimism which works as a great counter to me – I’m full of energy but I always filled with doom and gloom as my journal entries probably make clear.

We're still looking pretty good for this evening though - that's famous last words. -Brad

I have no idea what you're talking about with the doom and gloom

May 8, 2009 11:57:41 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ugh... my games keep crapping out over the last 30-45 minutes... MEH!  I'm guessing you guys are doing something...

May 9, 2009 12:27:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Per IRC, Demigod beta is being uploaded as I type.  No retail tonight, but beta should go live soon.

May 9, 2009 12:27:35 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Just updated it.  

Playing with the new GPG build.  So far so good. I'm still worried about the issue that some people had in build 108 where it froze on launching. We hadn't seen that internally so we're working to reproduce and see if build 113 fixes that.

The connectivity build is still being worked on. Custom games are working pretty well but we have to update the way skirmish and pantheon games are connected (now, you get into the lobby if you just connect to the host and in skirmish and pantheon, it would just launch the game as soon as 1 person connected so you'd only have 1 on 1 games which is obviously not acceptable).

I'll keep posting.  In the meantime, go see Star Trek. I went this afternoon and it was great.

3 things...

1.) Don't name the patch 113. I'm not superstitious but we don't need even the remote chance of bad luck.

2.) I went and saw Star Trek tonight. It's amazing.

3.) WTF is up w/ the bee handling? That's insane.

May 9, 2009 12:52:14 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

FYI - if you are on the beta (not the one that is uploading right now), you won't be able to connect until the upload is finished.  ETA less than 2 hours from now.

Also, can one of your ellaborate?  If I have, say, beta 1.01.  You guy's start uploading beta 1.02, but its not available in inpulse yet.  Will I always loose connectivity to my 1.01 games while you are uploading?  That seems to have been exactly what happend to me tonight. I'm assuming that when you start the upload, the old version becomes invalid and it can not be used again (eg you have to grab the new beta to play again and there is essentially an outage until you do so).  Am I following this correctly?

If that's all correct, then are retail releases handled the same way (where an outage occurs during updates)? 

Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108435  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0001515   Page Render Time:

Stardock Magazine | Register | Online Privacy Policy | Terms of Use

Copyright ?? 2012 Stardock Entertainment and Gas Powered Games. Demigod is a trademark of Gas Powered Games. All rights reserved. All other trademarks and copyrights are the properties of their respective owners. Windows, the Windows Vista Start button and Xbox 360 are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies, and 'Games for Windows' and the Windows Vista Start button logo are used under license from Microsoft. ?? 2012 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. All rights reserved. AMD, the AMD Arrow logo and combinations thereof are trademarks of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.