Demigod: Breakthru

Yes!

By Frogboy on May 2, 2009 8:25:44 PM from

Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week.

Here's what we've built:

1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.

2. If you don't do this, we will try to do a quick NAT connect. This takes longer but works for most people.

3. If NAT fails, you will be connected to our Proxy server system. This is not going to be super desireable at first because the physical location of the Proxy server is going to make the difference between a good and a lagfest. When the proxy server is nearby (east coast US player for instance to the east cost proxy server) it's perfectly good. But, for instance, if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare. so this is clearly your last result.

...

Now, right now, the current version of Demigod uses a connectivity server that ONLY does option 2. That's because it was decided early on that users shouldn't have to open ports. This, IMO, should NEVER have been the first option because when you force even technically sophisticated users into this system, you end up having a LOT of unnecessary connections to these NAT servers.

...

So, I feel confident that this next week is going to be the turning point for those people who have had connectivity difficulties PLUS the whole range of stat stuff, pantheon stuff, etc. will all come into line as well because, as I've said elsewhere, because the connectivity thing was our #1 priority, everyone, including the people who would resolve favor items and favor points and accurate win/loss stuff have been pulled onto this.

Heck, this past week, I had the ART team from Elemental working on doing benchmarks for speeing up NAT (That's where we finally concluded that NAT, for P2P is just feasible when there's thousands of players, it would simply require so many NAT servers, located around the world, to make it not totally awful that it wasn't financially logical - we'd be better off just hosting all the traffic which is better anyway).

We absolutely do not want to do any more "betas". The betas don't really solve our problems. We're getting rave emails from people in support today saying how this beta "totally fixes connectivity". NO, it doesn't. The only reason it seems that way is because there's so fewer people using the beta servers. If you check impulsereactor.dll, it's still the same one from day 0. So the betas don't really help because it gives us the same false sense of success that the actual open beta had.

The other problem with the beta is that it splits the multiplayer community which is really a problem. Right now, the Demigod MP community is fragmented. You've got a ton of people on Game Ranger. a Bunch of people on Himachi, others on Demigod release and some on the beta. And you get some very poor results hwen you play Skirmish or Pantheon or just find games.

Now one of the things that I've always been painfully aware of in online games is that you need a critical mass of users to make it work. With Demigod, we have some plans on how to make sure there's always lots of people to play with once the MP is bullet proof both in terms of connectivity and stat tracking. As someone who has been ejected from a pantheon game during connection, I know we have to do some QUICK changes to some of this stuff in order for the MP experience to have any integrity.

First, one of the things we did is we have everyone's email address who has updated the game. When we start the next-gen pantheon with favor points, achievements, favor items, stat tracking, disconnects dealt with and of course bullet proof MP (all of which I expect to be done this week) we will email everyone letting them know where we are at.

Second, the Stardock marketing push will actually begin. After that day 0 debacle with the MP connectivity being so crummy, I made marketing halt all Demigod marketing efforts. Those will go into high gear probably in the third week of May.

Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo. We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY. Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players. Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?

Fourth, we plan to start formal Demigod tournmants with cash and prizes for the winners.

Fifth, Stardock is working on an update to Impulse Reactor that will allow people to have more control over the types of people people are matched up with. Think of it being like eHarmony but for gaming. You'll be able to describe the type of gamer you are and the match making system will pick out people for you. This feature is actually being developed for Elemental but because Demigod uses Impulse Reactor, it'll get that for free.

Sixth, Stardock moderators will soon be introduced into the online community. This will probably happen in mid-May. The idea is, if we have forum moderators, why not multiplayer ones? Their job will be to provide enjoyable multiplayer experiences (i.e. good sports, skilled player, etc.) PLUS they will be able to add or subtract in-game karma from players. People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points. Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up. Yes, we know this is controversal. Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

Thanks everyone!

+912 Karma | 288 Replies

Quoting MishYu,

reply 21

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 20Even without MP problems it's still not worth 40$

Man, I only play SP and I think it's worth what I paid. Better than the damn $80 spent on Spore's Collector's edition. Better than that $50 spent on a shitty Mirror's Edge.

Just because something worse exists doesn't makeDemigod ok. That 50% coupon better be given out real fast. It does make the game 30$ if two persons decide to buy two boxes.

Quoting pkrell,

reply 24

Demo ist very important for stable mp 24/7. Think of WoW. Good demo. Stable Demo-Servers. But it wasn't limited content-like. It was limited in time. And that is much more better. As a publisher you say: we have a big product which will be big. We will give content regulary and we know you urge for that. Try for a limited time our product on stable servers. I know, there is a point that WoW does cost a monthly fee. That point does explain the time limited demo. But what the heck: if stardock does deliver good content, i would pay a monthly fee as well. Not 10 bucks, but ... don't know... 3 dollar... 2 euros?

WoW is limited in time and in content. You can't go past a certain level with a demo account.

Can you guys release some more information on this?

Quoting RamzaBehoulve,

reply 1

Just because something worse exists doesn't makeDemigod ok. That 50% coupon better be given out real fast. It does make the game 30$ if two persons decide to buy two boxes.

No, it doesn't. What makes DG ok is that the content fookin rocks. People just needs to realize that these shit happens. Nothing is going to be perfect, chill the hell out and enjoy what you have. If I can have a complete blast playing SP, so can anyone else.

Quit being such prudes and get over it. They're fixing it. They're working hard to fix it. RELLLAXXX

If I can have a complete blast playing SP, so can anyone else.

To play devil's advocate, you may enjoy single player but for a lot of people, it's very underwhelming. The main draw of the game is the multiplayer and to say something like "just be happy with the single player" is like selling a toaster that's pretty but always burns the bread.

Quoting JinxOfSin,

reply 5

If I can have a complete blast playing SP, so can anyone else.

To play devil's advocate, you may enjoy single player but for a lot of people, it's very underwhelming. The main draw of the game is the multiplayer and to say something like "just be happy with the single player" is like selling a toaster that's pretty but always burns the bread.

Very strange analogy. My take on it : the singleplayer sucks, demigod is a multiplayer game, period.

I was just trying to say it's buying the toaster for the wrong reasons. To sell Demigod on it's single player merit is to sell it for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, it was probably a bad analogy.

I want to know how you people who expect all the time limited only demos to work? You say make it hard to re-register, but that will mean it's hard to register in the first place; if it's too hard to register in the first place people will overlook the demo completely, if it's not too hard in the first place then it's not too hard to register again when the time runs out.

The only place that time trials work to encourage people to buy is the MMO market, not because it's too hard to re-register but because the whole genre works on persistance and rewards-for-time schemes which get reset after each trial period.

As for the limited content demos playing in full content customer games, it would make a good demo that encourages purchase but I think it would have a detrimental effect on the online play for the actual game owners. Even more so at this stage when the game owners are relatively few and, if the marketing push works, the demo crowd could be pretty large. Games will be flooded with the demo-allowed content and drown out the rest of the content; I might choose a different demigod every game but if all my oponents are rook 95% of the time it still loses a lot of variety.

I'm still strongly favouring a demo-only server listing separate from the full game owners. The game owners won't get skewed matchups and the demo experience would actually be better for the demo players, yes I mean that, bear with me here:

Demo players will be new to the game (obviously) and as much faith as you might in the comunity, some people are just jerks and will chew people out just for "being a noob", hardly anyone on a demo-only server would be in a position to be that jerk and it would provide a nicer first impression.

Related to being new to the game, it's not fun to be steamrolled by a player vastly more experienced than you, which would happen to demo players pretty often against the full game owners, again no-one would be in this position on the demo server.

When the other players have access to content they can't have it will frustrate some players, yes it might spur them to buy the game for these goodies in some cases, but it might also just sour their experience and put them off. People will still be aware there's more content in the full game without being beaten over the head with it (sometimes litterally) if you just leave options greyed out.

So yeah, it's a nice idea to have the demos and full game owners mix somehow but the alternative just seems so much more practical when I think about it. We won't need demo players to boost multiplayer numbers forever and there's plenty of drawbacks for that one benifit.

Quoting pkrell,

reply 24

The thing is, persistance isn't all that important. People can constantly re-download the demo if it was only a time limit. In WoW, re-downloading would mean restarting a character, right? In Demigod, it wouldn't really matter if you started over again. Maybe you would have less favor points, but I don't think people would really care too much about that.

I suggest limiting demo play to:

A demigod choice of either one assassin or one general (all others are grayed out)
only one map
most of the abilities, upgrades, etc
demo players only play on demo servers

I suggest releasing the demo in 4-6 months, when the full game should of been released. Should be nicely polished and in working order by then.

Having Demo-only servers is a great idea... for a while.
Once the initial reaction to the game calms down, and people aren't crazily downloading the Demo, the amount of Demo players will have subsided meaning that there won't be enough players after a while to encourage people to play the game. Having said that, letting them play with Full Version users brings into play which items they should get - which raises balance issues - what levels and which Demigods they should get. An interesting point mentioned above, limiting the Demo's Demigod choices would flood the online environment with those Demigods. I don't want to jump into a 5v5 game and see 9 Rooks and Me - it would skew the game terribly.

I don't think there's going to be an ideal solution except isolating the Demo players, but allowing Full Version users the option of playing with them if they chose to and perhaps rewarding the full version users with in-game Karma for doing so?

Again, I reference the BF2 demo only servers. They kept going strong for +2 years after release. Some people are just cheap enough to play the demo indefinitely.

I'd like to also echo the chorus of "Huh?" for the 50% off coupon.

It doesn't really thank players for sticking with the game through its broken infancy. Rather it rewards players who held off because of reviews or word of mouth (or pirated and can now play a possibly fixed game for half the price). It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that you've essentially used the release population to beta test an unfinished game, and as a reward for such a thing you're going to turn us into a pseudo-PR street team in order to push others into buying the game.

If it's your intention that these coupons shore up the fragmented and struggling multiplayer population -- and it appears that's their true purpose because the original rationale makes no sense -- that's fine. Let's just not pretend that they're being given out as a reward for early buyers when they don't benefit the buyers directly in any way.

Quoting Kierkegaard,

reply 14

I'd like to also echo the chorus of "Huh?" for the 50% off coupon.

It doesn't really thank players for sticking with the game through its broken infancy. Rather it rewards players who held off because of reviews or word of mouth (or pirated and can now play a possibly fixed game for half the price). It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that you've essentially used the release population to beta test an unfinished game, and as a reward for such a thing you're going to turn us into a pseudo-PR street team in order to push others into buying the game.

If it's your intention that these coupons shore up the fragmented and struggling multiplayer population -- and it appears that's their true purpose because the original rationale makes no sense -- that's fine. Let's just not pretend that they're being given out as a reward for early buyers when they don't benefit the buyers directly in any way.

I agree, the 50% coupon should be for any stardock game, or any game available on Impulse.

-Drew

Quoting XeroTheta,

reply 15

Quoting Kierkegaard, reply 14I'd like to also echo the chorus of "Huh?" for the 50% off coupon.

It doesn't really thank players for sticking with the game through its broken infancy. Rather it rewards players who held off because of reviews or word of mouth (or pirated and can now play a possibly fixed game for half the price). It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that you've essentially used the release population to beta test an unfinished game, and as a reward for such a thing you're going to turn us into a pseudo-PR street team in order to push others into buying the game.

If it's your intention that these coupons shore up the fragmented and struggling multiplayer population -- and it appears that's their true purpose because the original rationale makes no sense -- that's fine. Let's just not pretend that they're being given out as a reward for early buyers when they don't benefit the buyers directly in any way.

I agree, the 50% coupon should be for any stardock game, or any game available on Impulse.

-Drew

I concur. I would make it apply to another new purchase. That would show people are really sticking with SD and not hit and run types.

How do I get my 50% off coupon? I just bought it from Best Buy on Monday, registered it online through Impulse and haven't received any info about a coupon...

Quoting PsycloneTW,

reply 17

How do I get my 50% off coupon? I just bought it from Best Buy on Monday, registered it online through Impulse and haven't received any info about a coupon...

https://forums.demigodthegame.com/350584 last post.

For the demo I would allow a single map, 2 or 3 Demigods playable (Rook for sure), skirmish against A.I., and Custom multiplayer.

Not allowing any type of saingleplayer mode would hurt new recruiting... some people, myself included, definitely prefer to learn a game in a non-competitive non-multiplayer environment.

The map chosen should likely be Cataract. Definitely not Brothers - that map is too cool for a mere demo.

Maybe allow play *against* other Demigod types as long as they are controlled by the A.I. only. Definitely allow demo players to peruse the descriptions of each Demigod in the character selection screens, tempt them.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 12

My opinion is that Stardock's reputation in the industry absolutely must be something people can trust in. Therefore, we MUST make up the early launch issues with Demigod up to our customers.

I need a girlfriend...

What?

For me all the efforts you are making are enough reward. But I understand that not everybody will agree with me and I've a hard time saying no to free (or reduced price) stuff (if it's good enough for my interests).

how will webe getting our coupon i might of missed it in there somewhere idk can anyone tell me? i assume email

Time limitations generally suck... going through the effort of making room, downloading the archive from 'X' server after jumping through registration/ad hoops of various natures, then installing the (inevitably massive) thing is not to be rewarded by finite play time.

I`d bet money that the allure of playing as another 6 to 9 (!) Demigods will be plenty of temptation for people to upgrade to the full version. Moreso if they get to play against such characters, but not as them - sampling without control. Nevermind additional maps.

Quoting Rustie_the_dog,

reply 21

how will webe getting our coupon i might of missed it in there somewhere idk can anyone tell me? i assume email

If you contact support they'll tell you they're waiting on Brad to post more details here in the forums. So, we're all waiting on more details to be posted.

I am new to the Demigod community and didn't read all the posts here so I don't know if it's been mentioned or not but another incentive to purchase the game could be a level editor that's only available to owners of the full product. Let's face it, there's not a ton of maps in the retail version, a level editor would be a boon to the community IMO.

I would hazard a guess that there's already new Demigods waiting in the wings, perhaps those could be added to the list of reasons to upgrade to retail.

Beyond that, limiting the demo to one or two maps and say, 4 of the 8 available Demigods would also be acceptable.

I had another thought after my last post, rather than limit the level editor entirely, allow demo users to create maps but not actually compile them into playable levels unless they have the full version..

The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

Demigod: Breakthru

Yes!