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Demigod: Breakthru

Yes!

By on May 2, 2009 8:25:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week.

Here's what we've built:

1. If you open ports 6112 to 6200 and port forward them to your IP on your router (this is for people who are familiar with this stuff) you'll get what is called direct connect.

2. If you don't do this, we will try to do a quick NAT connect. This takes longer but works for most people.

3. If NAT fails, you will be connected to our Proxy server system.  This is not going to be super desireable at first because the physical location of the Proxy server is going to make the difference between a good and a lagfest.  When the proxy server is nearby (east coast US player for instance to the east cost proxy server) it's perfectly good.  But, for instance, if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare.  so this is clearly your last result.

...

Now, right now, the current version of Demigod uses a connectivity server that ONLY does option 2.  That's because it was decided early on that users shouldn't have to open ports.  This, IMO, should NEVER have been the first option because when you force even technically sophisticated users into this system, you end up having a LOT of unnecessary connections to these NAT servers.

...

So, I feel confident that this next week is going to be the turning point for those people who have had connectivity difficulties PLUS the whole range of stat stuff, pantheon stuff, etc. will all come into line as well because, as I've said elsewhere, because the connectivity thing was our #1 priority, everyone, including the people who would resolve favor items and favor points and accurate win/loss stuff have been pulled onto this.

Heck, this past week, I had the ART team from Elemental working on doing benchmarks for speeing up NAT (That's where we finally concluded that NAT, for P2P is just feasible when there's thousands of players, it would simply require so many NAT servers, located around the world, to make it not totally awful that it wasn't financially logical - we'd be better off just hosting all the traffic which is better anyway).

..

We absolutely do not want to do any more "betas".  The betas don't really solve our problems. We're getting rave emails from people in support today saying how this beta "totally fixes connectivity".  NO, it doesn't. The only reason it seems that way is because there's so fewer people using the beta servers. If you check impulsereactor.dll, it's still the same one from day 0.  So the betas don't really help because it gives us the same false sense of success that the actual open beta had.

The other problem with the beta is that it splits the multiplayer community which is really a problem.  Right now, the Demigod MP community is fragmented. You've got a ton of people on Game Ranger. a Bunch of people on Himachi, others on Demigod release and some on the beta.  And you get some very poor results hwen you play Skirmish or Pantheon or just find games.

..

Now one of the things that I've always been painfully aware of in online games is that you need a critical mass of users to make it work.  With Demigod, we have some plans on how to make sure there's always lots of people to play with once the MP is bullet proof both in terms of connectivity and stat tracking.  As someone who has been ejected from a pantheon game during connection, I know we have to do some QUICK changes to some of this stuff in order for the MP experience to have any integrity.

First, one of the things we did is we have everyone's email address who has updated the game.  When we start the next-gen pantheon with favor points, achievements, favor items, stat tracking, disconnects dealt with and of course bullet proof MP (all of which I expect to be done this week) we will email everyone letting them know where we are at.

Second, the Stardock marketing push will actually begin.  After that day 0 debacle with the MP connectivity being so crummy, I made marketing halt all Demigod marketing efforts. Those will go into high gear probably in the third week of May.

Third, and this is where we need your help: The demo.  We will be working with GPG on the demo but I was thinking of proposing that the demo for Demigod be multiplayer ONLY.  Moreover, I would like the demo players to be able to play online with legitimate players.  Here's where we need your help: What do you think would be a good way to limit this demo then in order to get people to still buy the game?

Fourth, we plan to start formal Demigod tournmants with cash and prizes for the winners.

Fifth, Stardock is working on an update to Impulse Reactor that will allow people to have more control over the types of people people are matched up with.  Think of it being like eHarmony but for gaming. You'll be able to describe the type of gamer you are and the match making system will pick out people for you.  This feature is actually being developed for Elemental but because Demigod uses Impulse Reactor, it'll get that for free.

Sixth, Stardock moderators will soon be introduced into the online community.  This will probably happen in mid-May.  The idea is, if we have forum moderators, why not multiplayer ones? Their job will be to provide enjoyable multiplayer experiences (i.e. good sports, skilled player, etc.) PLUS they will be able to add or subtract in-game karma from players.  People who are just nasty or horrible to other players will lose karma points. People who are good sports and good citizens will get points.  Those with higher karma will tend to get matched up.  Yes, we know this is controversal.  Players will see the karma as part of their account and there will be a way for users who feel they were unfairly negated to appeal.

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

Thanks everyone!

+912 Karma | 288 Replies
May 4, 2009 9:43:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting arstal,
While the half off coupon is a good gesture, how is that going to help?


The people who would get it already own the game, so how does it benefit them?  If they're not liking it, why would they ask their friends to pay $20 for it when they don't think it's worth that?  If they do like it, they're satisfied and wouldn't need a perk/apology offer.

That is not at all true. There are many, MANY people I'd imagine who research the games they buy and would have initially be turned off by the reported problems with multiplayer. This "reward" to us who HAVE supported the game, is extremely smart - it allows us to get our friends/family who were initially reluctant, to come around and play with us too. It's our way and Stardock's way of saying, "yes there were problems, but it's all good now (told you so!) - come and have some fun!".

If someone doesn't like the game, then no reward you're going to give them will turn them around- this isn't a reward for people who have ENDURED the game RELUCTANTLY, it's for those who have supported demigod, and are now happily trying to entice their mates to play with them.


Quoting Cribar,
Now I don't want to give off a false sense of entitlement, in buying 3 copies of Demigod all I am entitled to from Stardock and GPG is the ability for me and my girlfriend and our friend to play Demigod. However, if there is going to be somekind of "reward" for purchasing Demigod while it was still have technical issues I only request that a little more thought be put into it other than just 50% off Demigod. Even if its just a dollar off any game on impulse (so $3 for me woohoo!) it would still be better than feeling obligated to buy yet another copy just to take advantage of savings.

Again, you're missing the point of this. You are in a bit of a niche unfortunately, where you have already bought a plethora of copies of the game for all who you play with, and so this reward isn't going to help you personally, very much. For most gamers though currently playing DG,  i'd say they could list a bunch of people who they are trying to convince to get DG, but have been avoiding it because of all the reported problems. This is to entice those people to come back.

 

I think it's a masterstroke by Stardock, and one I'll gladly be utilising.

 

May 4, 2009 9:50:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'll be using the 50% discount for sure. 

And 7 days worth?  I just got a demo for "Plants vs Zombies", and you get 30 minutes total.  That's it, but it really leaves you wanting more.  If you give SO many h'orderves, nobdy will want any dinner. 

  As for the demo, I don't know, my "spider sense" is REALLY tingling about letting them play MP. Giving a demo that allows for online MP seems just to be asking for more online problems, and more ways for pirates to sneak in.  If they like playing with botts, they will start to drool thinking about what it would be like to play humans online with the the retail game IMO.

May 4, 2009 10:00:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This game is all about multiplayer - personally I think it would be pretty silly to exclude multiplayer from the demo.  Imagine people trying to get their friends into the game, if they can't do that by playing multiplayer with them then you may be losing potential customers.

 

If you only give access to single player, then people will likely be focusing on the sub-par single player experience which has no campaign, story or anything.

May 4, 2009 10:04:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

 

 

ummm, I don't understand why I would be excited about this??? I already bought at full price now I can get it again at half price? Your post was all good till I hit this part.... you lost me here, I personally think its a stupid idea and will delete the coupon when you send it. I mean what am I gonna do with a second copy? Give it away? To who? Your just asking me to spend basically 150% on a game (100% the first time and 50% the next time). Sounds stupid to me.

May 4, 2009 10:23:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting HercMighty,
ummm, I don't understand why I would be excited about this??? I already bought at full price now I can get it again at half price? Your post was all good till I hit this part.... you lost me here, I personally think its a stupid idea and will delete the coupon when you send it. I mean what am I gonna do with a second copy? Give it away? To who? Your just asking me to spend basically 150% on a game (100% the first time and 50% the next time). Sounds stupid to me.

Read my post a few above for the "purpose" behind this.
Demigod is a multiplayer game, ie. intended to be enjoyed with friends. What better way to serve both Stardock's interests and our own (in getting people we like playing with, into this game!) than by offering a huge discount like this?

No one's asking you to PERSONAL spend it, but to use it as a way to entice those close to you to play with you.


If you have no one like that, then honestly you are hardly the typical multiplayer demographic- most people DO have close friends that they want to play with, even if it's those they have met only online. If that still doesn't satisfy you....then too bad really. It seems crazy that you really can't think of ANYONE though. No siblings/mates from school/cool dude you play wow with, etc who you like to game with?

May 4, 2009 10:42:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

a very positive post here, to be honest I've been laying off demigod since the first week due to the MP issues, but I have definitely been looking forward to this kind of update

A lot of the concepts outlined are also interesting tho I say that with some hesitance in relation to the matchmaking system, and community style moderation... i mean in theory these are positive things... but at present I can't quite see how they will work in reality, considering how aggressive a game demigod can be when you are crushing the enemy or when you are being crushed...  I think its okay to let things get a 'bit' heated... but naturally how far that 'bit' goes will differ for different people... and I'd hate to see people get hard done by because they were having an off day...

I suppose if the rules for this karma system are clear cut enough, it might work out

As for the demo, I'd say, have favor points disabled and pantheon disabled, able to access and host custom games with favor items disabled by default (I think this is an option), access to Rook and Erebus specifically (rook being the guy that represents this game most prominently, and erebus as an example of a general)

Failing that, maybe as described earlier a full version of the game, with online disabled... but I'd go further than that and restrict it to a 30 day trial that then stops working after the time expires...

May 4, 2009 11:06:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

RE Demo

My personal thoughts are a 1 map MP demo.  No favor points/stats tracking/achievements. 

I don't know what to suggest on the number of demigods available to play...  If only a limited demigod selection is available I think it is going to skew the numbers on online players for those for a while online, and that I think would be an annoyance for those of us that bought the game.    But I would totally understand the business decision to do that.  On the otherhand, as soon as the free updates come out they wouldn't have access to the new demigods, so that would be a reason for demo players to buy the game.

Don't limit buying items except for favor items because if you do that then you throw off the balance for the rest of team members.

May 4, 2009 11:19:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Make sure you have plenty of screenshots when quitting the game, loading the game, etc. of all the other demigods doing cool stuffz

May 5, 2009 8:00:24 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

 

Quoting Cowbuttzex,
Hmmm maybe ill buy my little cousins a present. Wait on secound thought QoT shows way to much cleavage.

 

hehehe


Okay, I now feel confident in publicly saying that I think that the connectivity issues some have had is going to go away next week...............Thanks everyone!

Thank you for being honest and showing everyone what is going on behind the scene. I'm sticking with Stardock from now on.

May 5, 2009 8:25:09 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

if you're in Japan and it uses a proxy server in Singapore, you're adding 200ms to your latency which can make the game a total lag nightmare.  so this is clearly your last result.

This sums up fairly nicely why I play very few games online. Japan is apparently supposed to have some of the fastest internet connections going, but the reality is that most of us actually have connections far slower than people in the US along with having the added problem of dealing with servers primarily located in other countries, which futher degrades the overall performance of our connections.

But now that I've solved the problem with Demigod loading on my PC, I may even find myself tempted to try online play once the problems are solved -- especially with this Eharmony system. Perhaps it'll help me find players who just want to play for fun and don't care about winning or losing.

May 5, 2009 9:37:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Windburn,




If you have no one like that, then honestly you are hardly the typical multiplayer demographic- most people DO have close friends that they want to play with, even if it's those they have met only online. If that still doesn't satisfy you....then too bad really. It seems crazy that you really can't think of ANYONE though. No siblings/mates from school/cool dude you play wow with, etc who you like to game with?

 

This is NOT a good point.

Try to sell somebody a car. Then he comes back sayin "hey man, brakes don't work, rear mirror doesn't work, and some other stuff doesn't work".Try to tell him you need +50% of the price to fix all those problems.

There isn't really a single good reason for this.

You put people in this fact: waste my already spent money or pay a +50% fee?


Simply ridiculous

May 5, 2009 4:25:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Quilbo,

Quoting Windburn, reply 5



If you have no one like that, then honestly you are hardly the typical multiplayer demographic- most people DO have close friends that they want to play with, even if it's those they have met only online. If that still doesn't satisfy you....then too bad really. It seems crazy that you really can't think of ANYONE though. No siblings/mates from school/cool dude you play wow with, etc who you like to game with?


 

This is NOT a good point.

Try to sell somebody a car. Then he comes back sayin "hey man, brakes don't work, rear mirror doesn't work, and some other stuff doesn't work".Try to tell him you need +50% of the price to fix all those problems.

There isn't really a single good reason for this.

You put people in this fact: waste my already spent money or pay a +50% fee?


Simply ridiculous

I don't think that's really a fair analogy. Stardock is fixing the "brakes" and "rear mirror" and "some other stuff" for free. And giving out an additional car, which also will have free repairs, at half price.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

May 5, 2009 4:26:22 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

so much for not having to forward ports....

May 5, 2009 4:28:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Duckling,
so much for not having to forward ports....

you don't have to. They are making it so if you don't know how to, it'll work anyway. But if you do know how, it'll work even better.

May 5, 2009 4:38:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I know how, it's just that during the entire beta and up until know stardock made a solid statement about not having to forward ports.. And it doesn't work in europe, for me anyway. So all in all I am just slightly annoyed pissed off little person feeling tricked into paying for something that isn't finished.. and the 3 days gamestop pushed the release date don't make any bloody difference.. Still a broken piece of software.

May 5, 2009 6:19:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Re: Demo

Let them use only half of the Demigods. 1 light and dark Assassin, and 1 light and dark General. And then limit them to the 2vs2 map, and 1 3vs3 and 4vs4 map game but give them the ability to join other maps as observers instead of players.

Oh, and make sure their numbers don't add up to game statistics and don't give 'em favor points, acievements, etc.

May 6, 2009 5:23:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The demo needs to be limited to a single not so cool map..

May 6, 2009 6:44:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting HercMighty,
Seventh, all people who have bought Demigod at retail or direct up May 10th (and didn't return the game obviously) will be getting a coupon that will let them purchase a second copy of Demigod for 50% off for a limited time as a way for us to show appreciation for this community that has put their faith and trust in us.

 

 

ummm, I don't understand why I would be excited about this??? I already bought at full price now I can get it again at half price? Your post was all good till I hit this part.... you lost me here, I personally think its a stupid idea and will delete the coupon when you send it. I mean what am I gonna do with a second copy? Give it away? To who? Your just asking me to spend basically 150% on a game (100% the first time and 50% the next time). Sounds stupid to me.

 

um no, it's not stupid. I'm glad they're giving that 50% off because now, my bf and I can play each other online. We were going to buy a second copy at full price anyway, but this discount helps us a lot.

There are people who shares a computer in a household, (my current dilema) so only one person in that household holds the MP stats, what is everyone else going to do? We have to buy a 2nd copy to play MP, which as I've stated in my other thread "My Only Complaint About DG".. sucks. I don't mean to play simultaneously, I mean, I have to purchase a 2nd copy just so I can play MP after/before my bf and have my own stats. With this discount though, it kinda ease that "ouch" on my pocket and budget a bit more.

 

Quoting Quilbo,

This is NOT a good point.

Try to sell somebody a car. Then he comes back sayin "hey man, brakes don't work, rear mirror doesn't work, and some other stuff doesn't work".Try to tell him you need +50% of the price to fix all those problems.

There isn't really a single good reason for this.

You put people in this fact: waste my already spent money or pay a +50% fee?


Simply ridiculous

where are you getting this "Pay a +50% fee thing from? If you brought the game back to stardock, they give you a 100% refund. What they're saying is that we're gonna fix the car for you, and heck, we'll give you another car for 50% off so you can share it with your friends/family!

Seems lke a good deal to me.

May 6, 2009 6:52:45 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Duckling,
I know how, it's just that during the entire beta and up until know stardock made a solid statement about not having to forward ports.. And it doesn't work in europe, for me anyway. So all in all I am just slightly annoyed pissed off little person feeling tricked into paying for something that isn't finished.. and the 3 days gamestop pushed the release date don't make any bloody difference.. Still a broken piece of software.

 

It did make a "bloody" difference because it gave the pirates time to copy and distruibte it, didn't you watch the damn interview from MSNBC? It's completely unfair and out of line for the publishers to have to take the blunt of the blame for problems.

THEY'RE NOT THE DEVELOPERS.

They work WITH the developers, they HELP them.. so the ones you should be getting all upset over the problems are frankly, the developers. But to err' is human. Get off your high horse. Like you've never made mistakes before. And I'm not saying "you" to target you specifically, I'm using it in a general term for all the ones that's been bitching bout the MP problems.

 

May 6, 2009 8:10:21 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Even without MP problems it's still not worth 40$

May 6, 2009 8:15:36 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting RamzaBehoulve,
Even without MP problems it's still not worth 40$

 

Man, I only play SP and I think it's worth what I paid. Better than the damn $80 spent on Spore's Collector's edition. Better than that $50 spent on a shitty Mirror's Edge.

May 6, 2009 9:06:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

++ Connection making is alot faster now.

-- Game stability is alot worse: Lag out during game start and alot more ingame then before.

 

May 6, 2009 9:15:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ntropy,
++ Connection making is alot faster now.

-- Game stability is alot worse: Lag out during game start and alot more ingame then before.

 
Thats ebcause we can nowconnect to people in AU & EU & USA from diferent places.

May 6, 2009 9:27:31 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Demo ist very important for stable mp 24/7. Think of WoW. Good demo. Stable Demo-Servers. But it wasn't limited content-like. It was limited in time. And that is much more better. As a publisher you say: we have a big product which will be big. We will give content regulary and we know you urge for that. Try for a limited time our product on stable servers. I know, there is a point that WoW does cost a monthly fee. That point does explain the time limited demo. But what the heck: if stardock does deliver good content, i would pay a monthly fee as well. Not 10 bucks, but ... don't know... 3 dollar... 2 euros?

May 6, 2009 10:42:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Good news all round.

Wondering if the 50% discount translates from digital purchases to shop purchases. Bought the download version direct from Stardock/Impulse, but was thinking of getting a boxed copy when it hits retail here (UK) - would be nice if I could get a 50% discount on that!

Any demo does really need an offline skirmish mode imo, if only to give newcomers a chance to get a feel for the game before jumping online. Getting stomped online while learning the basics might work for some people, but could equally put others right off.

Re limitations, lots of suggestions in this thread, but would personally be inclined to limiting DG choice to 4 (2 generals and 2 assassins, eg TB and Reg + QoT and Sedna) and one or 2 smaller maps (say, Crucible and Cataract). Enough for people to get a feel for the game (and get hooked), but still leaving enough of an incentive to buy the full version.

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