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Demigod: Preview of Day 0 Update

By on April 7, 2009 3:25:13 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Lead Designer Mike Marr at Gas Powered Games has put together a list of some of the balance changes being implemented based on player feedback that will be in the released (day 0) version of the game.

From Mike:

The focus of this balance pass was stop slows and chain stuns from ruining gameplay. Past that, our goal was to increase the viability of Generals and reduce the aspects of the Rook, Torchbearer and Unclean Beast that were proving to be imbalanced.

Slows. From feedback, it had become apparent that slows were negatively impacting gameplay past the point of fun. To fix this issue there is now a slow cap that prevents a Demigods movement by being decreased more than 33%. Thank you all for your input on this issue!

Chain Stuns. This is a problem that has plagued Demigod for some time. Well, this time we think we addressed the issue thoroughly. There is now Stun Immunity. When stunned by Boulder Roll, Mass Charm or Freeze a Demigod becomes immune for twice the duration of the stun. Our thanks goes out to the community, and especially Sorian, DalzK and others, for their brainstorming and feedback on this issue.

Teleport. When teleporting the target location of the teleport displays a tell, indicating that someone is coming! Thanks to Chirmaya for helping in bringing this issue to rest.

In addition, there???s been a lot of changes to the cost and effects of Citadel upgrades based on feedback that we think peopel will really like.

What about the Demigods themselves?  We???ve all be lurking the forums, reading people???s concerns and ideas. Then we go and try to verify the concern. It???s hard on the demigods because whenever someone loses a game, they argue that their demigod was under powered or that the guy who beat them was overpowered. So we end up spending a lot of time having to simulate the matches people post about to see if there really is a legitimate issue.

That said, here are a few highlights:

The Rook

The Rook's health and armor have been reduced, as has the damage of Hammer Slam and the stun on Boulder Roll.

Torch Bearer

The Torch Bearer's damage potential through Shatter has been reduced as well as the amount Permafrost and Frost Nova slow enemies. Circle of Fire's radius has been increased.

Unclean Beast

Beast's damage as he levels has been reduced. The effects of Inner Beast and Diseased Claws has been decreased. Venom Spit is now more potent but costs more mana. Ooze deals more damage.

Regulus

We see a lot of discussion about Regulus but the issue with those who say Regulus is too powerful isn???t Regulus per se but the effect items have on Reglulus.

Now, the generals have gotten beefed up a bit since, as many people noted, Assassins, even though they don???t have minions, still tend to win and the statistics bear this out. So considerable time has been spent revisiting the Generals.

Queen of Thorns

Queen of Thorns now deals more damage and has more armor. Many of her abilities have had their cooldown timer reduced and cast times sped up.

Lord Erbus (The Vampire Lord)

Erbus was a significant challenge because, as most beta testers concluded, he was by far the weakest of the Demigods. As a result, Mike???s team spent a great deal of time over the past few weeks re-imagining him.

Erebus now moves as fast as the Unclean Beast, has better survivability and deals more damage in melee. Bite is more effective as is Mass Charm against creeps. Mist drains more mana, but deals more damage.

Oak

Oak deals more damage in melee, both to start and as he levels. Penitence's debuffs are less effective, but the damage is increased. Surge of Faith can be cast more often and affects a larger area.

Sedna

Sedna now has more health and deals more damage. Pounce is stronger and she can cast Yeti's more often. Silence has a larger radius and can be cast more often, bust costs more mana and doesn't last as long.

Items

There have been a lot of changes to items, particularly Favor items.  The Warpstone, for instance, has a longer cooldown and costs more to purchase. Summoning idols are a lot cheaper and casting time is much quicker. We???ll have a more detailed list at release day as this is pretty lengthy.

 

Community Features

The Demigod betas have had a chat feature which is better than nothing but the goal has been to make sure people can send messages and such to their friends.  Impulse Phase 3 also includes the Impulse Tray so you???ll be able to get messages from friends outside the game if you want to invite them to your game.

image

Not pictured above are the profile features which are still being worked on.

Overall, we think people will be pretty happy with the work the team has put in here.  Obviously, not everyone will agree on which Demigod is ???overpowered??? and such. But we feel pretty confident that these changes will ensure the game is even funner than the most recent betas have been and create a good base for looking at future balance change requests.

+912 Karma | 61 Replies
April 8, 2009 1:13:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Can't wait to see my QoT with updates

April 8, 2009 1:40:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Looking forward to seeing those community features in action

April 8, 2009 3:17:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Tyo,
'Does this affect the shatter mechanic? Will it just not freeze him?'

Secondary effects still work. You'll still take damage, be slowed, etc.

can i ask for detail abotu the shatter dmg nerf?

i supose it will just be a bit less devastatign at lvl 15 with tthe x3 shatter right?

April 8, 2009 4:29:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,

Yah looks like UB has replaced Rook as the anchor in a stun team - Rook boulders, UB grasps, Rook hammers, gg. 

I'm not sure why Foul Grasp is being given a pass here but at least they can turn on immunity-trigger easily when it starts to get abused.

Foul Grasp is getting a pass for the time being since it's a stun that acts as a stun for UB as well. If you want Foul Grasp to stay the full duration, UB cannot move, attack, or cast. It cannot prep for a large burst, it cannot deal extra damage during the stun, it cannot take the stun time to move to a more advantageous position.

Rook + TB was such a combo not only for the stun, but for their ability to deal a large burst together. Their stun combo allowed the target to stay in position for Rook, and for the target to not clear the debuffs necessary for Deep Freeze.

If it turns out that Foul Grasp is as effective at this burst as Hammer Slam or Deep Freeze, there's a lot we can do with the ability itself as well. I'm not really sure if it's a matter of "when," but we'll find out together.

April 8, 2009 4:48:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's a fair point.  I can come up with a few scenarios where two UBs tagteam Grasp to "bridge" immunity for allied stuns but we'll really have to see how it plays and I doubt public games will really see it abused the way TB + Rook could have been.

And can I say that it's nice now that crunch is almost over to see GPG back on the forums

April 8, 2009 9:18:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dont like the update

I mean, you adressed our problems well exept about the generals.

you buffed them as you should, but in the wrong way, what u did is just make them more strong and powerfull instead of buffing them through their  minions. we were complaning that they were too much assassins like (assassins with pets) and now it will be even more like it.

Why not make the minions stronger, or the idols cheaper, it would make much more sense instead just better armor, health, damage.

its like you forgot the idea of the general, what would be the point of using minions now? its useless.
anyway, its sound balanced but in the wrong way.
and still i'm happy you got that balace, maybe in the future it will be better.

I wish good luck for all of us (players and gpg/stardock) that demigod would be recived well and get good reviews upon relese and we will have a large community with lots of players. GO DEMIGOD GO

April 8, 2009 9:27:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why not make the minions stronger, or the idols cheaper, it would make much more sense instead just better armor, health, damage.

Re-read the updates and the posts GPG have made on all the pages. This is exactly what happened. Minions have got buffed

April 8, 2009 9:32:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's a fair point.  I can come up with a few scenarios where two UBs tagteam Grasp to "bridge" immunity for allied stuns but we'll really have to see how it plays and I doubt public games will really see it abused the way TB + Rook could have been.

They did also mention a Rook hammer slam nerf so maybe the effect wont be as big. It also takes quite a bit more teamwork to pull of a Rook stun followed by a UB grasp and Hammer Slam than the whole Rook + Ice tb which is a good thing. At least if people are gunna abuse this it will take more skill to use.

Luckily it can easily be changed so...as long as they do lots of small patches instead of rare big ones it could be patched quite fast/easily.

Anyway to be honest, we just are gunna have to try it out for real first before saying anything

April 14, 2009 4:55:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Contrary to my post, I really do enjoy Demigod and played it for 14 hours straight today. It's really fun and worth the purchase cost, but if I can have a say in balancing the game, then I will give all the criticisms I can.

Funny thing about this post. I was gonna make a thread about how Regulus, when on Hard mode, is unstoppable especially as he levels up, and it takes two or three Demigods to kill him. I've even been Regulus in the enemy base and not lost any life at all. I would up killing 7 Demigods in a row because he just couldn't die.

The Rook is definetly the weakest character by far. He has near to no special attacks to get from the screen, has trouble walking through wards of enemies, and is always the prime target of other Demigods. This character always falls in battle. In just about every case I've played, the higher the difficulty, the worse it is to have The Rook on your team because The Rook will wind up dying some 7 times before you will have your first or second. I once had it randomly assign me three Rooks in a 5 vs 5. That match I had the most trouble winning because it was one Rook dying and another slowly walking down to take that one's place for the entire match. I wish The Rook did more damage to buildings so its use was more worthwhile. The volleys coming off of it automatically are also not powerful enough. Funny thing is, The Rook, while being the biggest and most pronounced Demigod, is the easiest to kill hands down. Each and every Demigod seems like a God in comparison.

I did three matches on hard using the Torch Bearer and oh boy is that a slow starter. Almost useless in the beginning, later on, the Torch Bearer starts to actually do some damage, but it's very problematic. See, I was in a tourney match on hard and the frost one, even if I never go into fire mode, is just worthless. Freezing doesn't last long enough and doesn't seem to do enough damage for the cost/cooldown. In Fire mode, I was the match leader in kills, level, and least deaths as well as having upgraded my citadel to have better and stronger enemies and give my team more experience, but somehow I completely lost that match too. I spent over and hour on each match as the Torch Bearer and wasn't able to win, but I was clearly the match leader in my ability to single-handedly stop the enemies; still, my team wasn't pulling their weight, and I was also having issues fighting Regulus. I was able to kill him twice in those three matches, but the only way I was able to do that was when he ran out of potions and 3 of us ganged up on him. It's just kind of crazy to say the least.

The Vampire guy is impossible to kill which isn't a problem. I'm just pointing out you did well to fix him because I can't ever seem to kill him unless I'm Regulus because Regulus can kill anyone. The Vampire lord is actually the easiest to kill as Regulus. I know it's his thing to kill Demigods, but still. The Vampire lord is almost impossible to kill as the Torch Bearer because he can run away so fast. It's not a big deal that the Vampire lord can stay alive, I just wanted to point out that as the Torch Bearer, I was unable to kill him at all either with ice or fire.

When not on my team, Sedna is really tough to kill, always healing and just frankly, not dying no matter which character I choose. That is one character needing less health for sure. It just doesn't seem fair that this girl who has to ride on a snow leapard gets to be an tank character. Maybe that was intended, I don't know.

Oak is completely fine. I think his minions, the Minataurs, are far too weak and pretty worthless even on the highest level; other than that, he's fine. Actually, that's a lie. Oak's invernerability is a waste of skills. I wish it were area-based and could work on my units as a whole rather than just one target which I will always choose to be myself. And then there's the issue of casting the spell and losing a few seconds waiting for the animiation to finish so you can move close enough to a tower to take it down while a step later the thing wears off and renders it moot. The sheild is just not going to do anything at all, and I now avoid it at all costs. Any ai that invests in it helps in losing the entire match for that team.

Occassionally I come across a hard-to-kill Unclean Beast, but in just about all my matches, this is one enemy I will pick out from all the others (aside from The Rook) because it just loves to die if it doesn't teleport away first. Has to be one of the most useless characters. If it's on my team it sucks. If it's on the opponents team it also sucks. At least The Rook can destroy towers, this thing can't even kill the simple enemies for the most part.

I would like to say the ai is really smart and doing a great job... as long as they're not on hard and not on my team, ha ha ha. The reinforcements ai is really something. I think it was extremely well programmed. I wish the enemies were programmed just as good. A lot of them seem to follow the same movement paths destorying the immersion and making the game predicatable, very bad when it is supposed to depend on you playing your cards right based on your own predictions rather than "this enemy always takes this path so just go to the end of the path and kill it".

 

I do have a few concerns with the game itself. There is no way to win if you are losing. Once the enemy has pushed just a bit into your area, you are done. You can try to defend yourself, but you already lost and now it's just 30-40 minutes of losing slowly, very slowly. There has to be some benefit even if you have no flags and a team of Demigods under level so there is a way to come back even if you're really not makin' it. As an example, Age of Empires III has the "revolution" thing you can use if you are a European civilization, Age of Mythology has Ragnarok if you're the Norse, but Demigod has nothing. I mean, the best you have is having Oak die and go berzerk, but by that point in time it's already too late for it to really do anything or matter. In a fighting game like Super Smash Bros Brawl, characters on a losing team will start off with a Final Smash making it so they can catch up. Racing games sometimes give rear players more speed or better power-ups. Sometimes these balances can destory the game and make it based on chance and not talent, but in others, as in the case of Age of Empires, it's worked in there as a choice you have to make, and you only get one chance to make it. From there, you have to figure out if you can pull through like that or not. That's a lot better than knowing you're gonna die and that's it especially if you are the match leader, and your team of ai just loves dying by the hand of Regulus or going after the wrong towers. I really shouldn't have to feel like I'm babysitting my team, I want comrads and friends. It seems so disjunct as if I am my team, and the others on it are holding me back.

April 14, 2009 8:11:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Whoa, is it just me or did today's patch change things? Was there a Day 1 update as well? Maybe nothing changed, and I just took a plesebo, but it seems like things were just about balanced now except that the girl on the snow leapard is still extremely good at healing herself. I think it's fine now though since she also was 4 levels above me in this last game I played with two of her. I'm not quite there with it yet, but from my feeling, the one game I played today was very different than ones I've played before. Could also be me using a different character.

April 16, 2009 6:32:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

After another day with the game, I'd have to say the Rook is still a bit nerfed but playable now. There were two times I saw the Rook prevail, once was the ai on my team in a normal mode tourney because the entire stage was all towers basically, and then another was the stage Prison during a 5v5 where the ai Rook was on the opposing team and for some reason, was able to be the beefy madhouse the Rook should be. I was gonna suggest the Rook be strengthened a bit somehow but after playing that stage, I don't know. It seems like I'm definitely missing something. It must be a certain playing style that is problematic with the Rook; although, I do remember the Rook still having a large number of deaths that match.

Regulus is a bit nerfed himself, but I haven't played enough to make a judgement on him. In the one game I played with him recently, I wound up having the lowest level out of everyone, but was the team leader in flags, demigod kills, and assists so I think the balance is finally there. One obviously thing I noticed about Regulus is that he's incredibly slow. I don't know if that's new or not but I'm wondering how I just never noticed. It's just funny.

Last but not least, in my experience thus far, match leaders tend to be the Torch Bearer and Sedna. I don't really know any way to qualify it but they're always doing really well. To clarify, the Torch Bearer in Mr. Frosty mode is doing really well. He's the scarriest foe I've come up against. I tried a strategy in normal mode with him myself as a test. I got the idea from the ai actually where one match I was the Rook and everyone on that team was slowling my teammates, and I down so we couldn't escape or attack or do anything but die. Taking this strategy myself, I found it difficult at first to really do much, but later on I was in the enemy's base and destoryed their citadel all by myself by basically freezing them doing the blizzard, and as I gained levels, even cold-zapping them. I almost got enough levels to buy up the fireballs so I could do the fire/ice one but we won before that could happen. Next time I play as him I'm gonna test out the waters now with switching between fire and frost instead of choosing one or the other. It'll be tough but I think I'm ready. I can see it now. Slow down enemies and hit them with fireballs and the ring of fire. What better strategy to let "everything burn BURN!"

Hard mode is a bit iffy. In Normal I kick serious butt, but put me in hard mode, and I can be the match leader but my team will be made up of a bunch of bumbling idiots. I feel like they're all on Easy, and I'm on nightmare. One person can't change that much especially when gaining levels is so hard when you're losing.

I found that the patch also addressed this issue of fairness. Even if you're really losing, you can still come back and fight it to win. I was once at a point where I was down to only needing to destroy one more fortress, and they had to take four of ours. If it weren't for my retarded teammates, I'm sure we could've removed that last fortress as I even had captured both portals and cleared the path on both sides to the final fortress yet somehow the other team managed to win; probably because they were 6-7 levels higher. Either way, as I've been playing, I don't get this feeling anymore that if I'm winning it's for-sure; I have to keep going at it until I finally start breaking in. Even then it could be a push and pull up until the last moment. Now THAT's exciting.

I seem to be having a really hard time playing as Lord Erbus. I have no clue why, but the ai seems capable with him, and I can't seem to pickup a good strategy. I think, after I realized you kill the smaller enemies to gain experience quicker, that will help me in the future with him. I guess playing my first tourney as Regulus made me think you just kill Demigods and that's your aim. Little did I know you don't get any experience unless you kill something or attack those little guys (yes flags too). I recommend adding that in the manual.

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