[Cheese] big army exploit

Funny thing is, even with 8 of them, or 16, or 24, they stll aren't good

lol yeah, but with enough +minion dmg and minion health items they can be a force to be reckoned with specially with 8 priests healing away + the special mini's (oak's spirits for eg) thats a big old furball running around the map and what chance does a tower have Vs 8 archer mini's?

Na.. even with those items they're bad. Those items are all pretty useless.

Goddamnit innociv, go troll somewhere else please. This is a very valid point, thats still alot of units.

i would like to see any demigod, no matter what stage of game, fight a full army of 24 buyable mini's and however many special mini's the only one what could stand a chance would be TB and only if he had enough mana or all his spells off CD, and as soon as frost nova ran out he is a dead spellslinger. with the rate of hits from 8 minotaurs and 8 archers, that rook's 7k health aint lasting long specially if the DG is casting stuns or DoTs on him as well. i just dont want to see this exploit going live and then seeing loads of people doing it to cheese away a win in competitive play.

Nice catch, adders0208. I never would have thought to do that. I always just assumed that if the totems went away, then the associated minions would go poof also.

That being said, I tend to agree with innociv, in that any number of minions make precious little difference to the outcome of the game.

Whether they number one or one hundred, they are still just a minor annoyance; something one must wade through in order to get to the commanding general.

I've tried it before. It's bad. I don't buy minion idols except the level1 priests anymore.

Yeah it needs to be fixed when they fix minion general builds. I'm just saying right now it's cheesey.

Any of the demigods could take out someone doing this currently except for Sedna as she lacks AoE.

Also: Don't call me a troll.

yeah i understand where you are coming from, but i play a general most of the time and i sacrifice personal power at the start of the game to build a proper army, i have to say i prefer doing this as after you have a full army in the midgame, farming becomes rediculously easy, then you can go to town on personal buffs, ive been using this cheese while playing nightmare AI and i cant remember the last time i died unless ganked by 3+ DGs. i can normally find bugs like this and that is why i put myself forward for beta testing, to try and improve this title as i think it has a lot of potential. but saying that, think about if this bug slid past and they buffed mini's so they were good / passable then it came out that u could do this, what then?

okay.. You want to try this against me in a real game? I'm not an AI. That will not work against me.

And yes, when minion general builds are made usable, this needs to be fixed, as it'd be a problem then.

I'm pretty positive it's a bug, not a design decision, and bugs need fixing.

right i just went to do further testing on this, and i found u can buy the monks, summon them sell the totem, then buy the archers. summon them and then sell the totem, then buy the minotaur, and then sell that, and if u have the magical coin purse favor item u get more money for selling them back then it cost to buy in the first place, so u can go get urself a full army, sell the totem and then buy a HP / DMG item before you even start the game, totally broken imho

buying all the level 1 to level 3 creeps alone and selling them again costs you 3200 (20% of the 16000 total buying cost), that is the price for 3 Supreme Combat Potions (=6750 hp) plus a universal gadget. Getting all the highest level Idols costs another 11000, so you need 14000 spare money to pull it off. That means you can only do this trick when you are a very high level. I tried this trick ages ago and it didn't work at all (even in the version where minions where really strong) , the more creeps you have the more deadly AoE effects get and you can't resummon them. It could confuse new players, that is the only reason why it could be necessary to remove it but that is it.

right i just went to do further testing on this, and i found u can buy the monks, summon them sell the totem, then buy the archers. summon them and then sell the totem, then buy the minotaur, and then sell that, and if u have the magical coin purse favor item u get more money for selling them back then it cost to buy in the first place, so u can go get urself a full army, sell the totem and then buy a HP / DMG item before you even start the game, totally broken imho

just tested myself again, with the purse you still only get 80% of your invested money back so you lose 405 money for getting 2 archer, minos and priests which you can't resummon, at the start of the game. You also lose quite a bit time at the start of the game as it takes a while to buy->summon priests->sell->buy->summon archer->sell->buy->summon minions->sell->buy armor. (took me more than 15 seconds that means your enemies get all flags in the beginning)

Again it could confuse new players (they might even think you cheat) but it really isn't that much of a practical strategy - although buying monks and selling the item and then be careful to keep them alive might be useful but that would be far from being a broken strat. Sure they could change it that way that your minions die when you sell the idol, wouldn't mind that, but it is a very low priority bug in my opinion.

no because u can buy 1 idol at a time with a max cost of 3k ish and then buy sell buy sell, till u have a full army so u can do this with the purse very early in the game. i know this don't seem like a big deal to some of you, but at the end of the day its still an expliotable bug, at lvl 1 at the start of the game, having a full army of 2x priest 2x gunner and 2x minotaur is a big advantage for paying no money for it. and remember you are making money all the while u are doing this as well so loosing 15 - 20 seconds at the start of the match is nothing, you can just buy a tele scroll and warp to recap the flags with a full army nothing at lvl 1 will be able to do anything

and as i said, i was playing against AI and when u have 24 mini's and whatever special mini's beating on them they run fast, so farming was too easy.

also when i used the purse, it looked like i didnt loose any money at all, maybe i was wrong i will do some retesting on that with a calculator in hand, but in anycase it's still proper cheese and needs to be looked into, maybe as you say destroy the mini when the totem is sold is the way forward.

ok after testing it a bit more, once you sell the totem you can still summon the mini's even if u dont own the totem.

so i earnt around 7k from farming creeps on the cruicible in a 1v1 Vs hard AI. then went home and started with lvl 4 priests and worked down the ranks so had the 8 priests, then did the archers after and so on till i had the full 28 mini's as oak, i also had the purse, and while i was losing a tad of cash when buying the totems and reselling them it was less noticable then without the purse, after having the whole army i went to take out the middle towers, took them out no problems tho lost a lvl 4 minotaur, so on the offchance i clicked the summon minotaur button and lo and behold i summoned one without the totem.

try it out guys and see how unbalanced it is Vs AI lol

ok after testing it a bit more, once you sell the totem you can still summon the mini's even if u dont own the totem.

you should test a bit more carefully, it only starts the cast sequence but don't actually summon one. Its a bug more or less a UI bug.

Also, when you sell and buy, the recharge timer still stays there. So it takes a long time to make that big army.

Yeah it's a little funny seeing a general with a big army, but it wouldn't be effective even if they buffed the idol minions considerably, pretty much..
That's not to say it shouldn't get fixed. It should. I'm just saying it's not some game-breaking exploit. Heck, I'd be happy if the bug remained if it meant they got to fix and improve a bunch of other things about the game(play). But yeah, it's a bug that should be fixed.

Quoting TheBigOne,

reply 14

you should test a bit more carefully, it only starts the cast sequence but don't actually summon one. Its a bug more or less a UI bug.

sorry i couldnt see if he had fully summoned one because of the size of the army i already had, but this is no ui bug, he goes through the full cast cycle and the animation of a summon comes up on the floor next to him and then fails to complete. but when u have 23 mini's standing around it gets a little crowded with the 16+ spirits floating around your head as well

If Minions are ever fixed it might be cheesy, right now it's just a bad idea.

C'mon, send me your minions.

With Oak, all I need is a great big bunch'o enemy minions, drop a Death Ward, and hit'em with Divine Intervention. The ones that died become souls, making Oak stronger and by dying, replenishing my army's health, then crack away with Divine Justice, and kill the rest, each time, making my army healthier and Oak stronger.

Oak eats minions.

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