armer good or bad

spell damage isn't reduced from armor.

still everything else di barely nothing to me.

clearly u got what u payed for

lol u could say that. but really how much armor would u need to do like 75% reduction.

The formula for mitigation on armor is: Mitigation = (Armor*0.0004)/(1+(Armor*0.0004))*100

Solving for 75% ...

75 = AX / (1+AX) * 100

0.75 = AX / (1+AX)

0.75(1+AX) = AX

0.75 + 0.75 AX = AX

0.75 = AX - 0.75 AX

0.75 = 0.25AX

0.75/0.25X = A = 0.75/(0.0004*(.25)) = 7500

yes and combined with the 20% evade cape and the 25% damage reduction item you are unkillable (is that a word?)

i once played against some ai's and bought only from the artifact shop (i prolonged the game to get the money) and you could become a god with those items (but they are very expensive)

tesb ur unkillable if u get sedna's healing auras 75% def reduction and 25% dodge cause any hit that slips through will be healed fully before the next hit in a match against a comp i was able to achieve 78 hp/sec and 128 hp/sec under 30% with 56% dmg reduction and no dodge and was pretty much unkillable especially since i can heal myself for 1500 every 10 seconds with the 15% less CD buff

see stuff like that shouldn't be able to happen. Thats just ridiculus. I mean really, it makes u practicly invincible against grunts.

where is the problem soccer? those items are only archievable against the ai or much weaker players than you. (i am talking about ~100k gold)

soccer skills that stun would still kill u cause even with all that my max hp was low so if u got a 2 on 2 that know what they doing u can still take a person like that down cause that 56% doesnt affter abilities it seems

okay i could barely understand that. Also i said against grunts and minis making generals alot weaker and if its 2 pros against 2 okay people whi9ch might be implented than yes u would be able to get that much and I have gotten those kind of items against players too. In 1 game all my items prices added up would prob be like 80,000 gold because it when on for a long time.

50% mitigation is achievable in multiplayer games, and it means any DG who has specced normal damage rather than nuke spells is at a disadvantage, imo. Some of the DGs don't really have nukes to speak of, so it would be nice if they could either get some or this could be tweaked slightly.

For example, if I am playing against an Oak and a UB and I pile on the armor they can't do much to hurt me.

Exactly, its very hard to counter armor, maybe some items that increase spell damage, but I dodn't know that would be a very good item.

Overpowerdness is annoying if is too easy to achieve, but since Demigod games are meant to be relatively short, doesn't it make sense that eventually someone should be able to difinitively end the game (eg by becoming overpowered)?

Yeah but armor is more heplful for against some than others, and if this is to be so than i think their should be a way to counter it or an advantage against those armor is not usefull against.

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 12

50% mitigation is achievable in multiplayer games, and it means any DG who has specced normal damage rather than nuke spells is at a disadvantage, imo.

See, I distinctly remember people complaining that itemizing for auto-attack normal damage was overpowered and made spells useless. So here we are, complaining that spells are great and auto-attack spec doesn't beat everything. Funny world.

there is no perfect solution to this debate, but i see nothing wrong with countering a specific build with items (if Demigods have the Diversity to go either way: Spell or Normal Damage) (i also happen to believe that the Demigodskills could use some major love and that we need items which increase spell damage)

See, I distinctly remember people complaining that itemizing for auto-attack normal damage was overpowered and made spells useless.

And at the time it was true. For example - Regulus in Beta 1 was best played as a pure stats build with DPS items, and could become fairly ridiculous.

So here we are, complaining that spells are great and auto-attack spec doesn't beat everything. Funny world.

Because now the balance has swung the other way. The fact is that some DGs and some builds are more dependent on normal attacks than others in 2D, and they can't do much to overcome armor. The fact that alot of armor also increases health doesn't help.

Overall, I like the current item balance much better now than I did then and I think there are larger balance issues than this one - I would just tweak it slightly so that builds remained flexible and spell-nukers weren't the default.

Armor system has not changed since the time of the "auto-attack rules all" complaints, yet now suddenly Armor beats it. The reason it wasn't found before is it simply wasn't tried, yet obviously: "nerf auto-attack buffing items". Try not to pull the same mistake yet again - try some other builds and itemization before lobbying for a change.

By system I assume you mean the mitigation formula, right? You certainly aren't talking about item selection and availability...The formula isn't relevant - no one is questioning it. What we are concerned with is how it is applied.

In 2D, afaik, you can mitigate non-spell damage to a far greater practical extent than previously. Additionally, the Stats builds that worked so well in Beta 1 have been nerfed by about 66% from a skill perspective and the DPS items cost far more than they did.

Tell you what, DK - go face off against a couple of UB nightmares as Rook and spend 10k gold on armor. Don't even spec boulderslam. Now face off 2 Rook nightmares as UB and spend 10k gold on attack damage and attack speed items. Tell us which victory was easier?

Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 20

Tell you what, DK - go face off against a couple of UB nightmares as Rook and spend 10k gold on armor. Don't even spec boulderslam. Now face off 2 Rook nightmares as UB and spend 10k gold on attack damage and attack speed items. Tell us which victory was easier?

And how about, instead of wasting time with that, you test something that actually has controllable inputs. Which, for starters, means human players on all sides. AI's will choose their equipment more or less randomly - those rook AI's might not decide to go for armor or they might. That's hardly a controlled environment.

Also note that you act as if there was only one way to spec UB (auto-attack damage), which is blatantly wrong. If you are facing off against a Rook (which in itself, might be a clue to spec differently) and you notice he's going armor heavy - don't play into his game by simply doing what you always do. If you can't find a single-target spell-based spec for UB (something I doubt), you can easily switch tracks and go for an army killer build, circumventing the armor-heavy build of your opponent.

I'm all for flexibility. Adapting your build to circumstance and opponent choices is great.

What worries me, in present circumstances, is that UB without armour doesn't kill an armoured opponent, regardless of build. Neither does QoT. Neither does a Minion-Sedna, a Fury-Regulus, or a Minion Oak.

Your response is that they shouldn't play those DGs or builds? Where is the flexibility there? What we end up with then is a few optimized builds and DGs which everyone will play, because that's what wins...

Yeah right now spells rule all and those who have high damage spells are at a great disadvantage because spells kill all. Theirs no real counter to a spell. While auto attack becomes use in late game against other DG's making it so u cant go uber statsa which i would certinly like as an option.

Quoting Soccer194,

reply 23

Yeah right now spells rule all and those who have high damage spells are at a great disadvantage because spells kill all. Theirs no real counter to a spell. While auto attack becomes use in late game against other DG's making it so u cant go uber statsa which i would certinly like as an option.

Hm...Yeah I see how that's totally the case

I should be forced to adapt my strategy and upgrade my spells. Otherwise replayability will suck as everyone goes for +weapon damage and +attack speed late game.

dis regard that reply. Spells have become the only pathway to be a good fighter and it has no real counter except get more health. While your auto attack now has a counter which is armor and it is highly effective making a uber stat strat useless. Not all Dg's have spells that do massive damage so now all DG's which do have those spells have a massive advantage. normal attacking has come to the point of almost useless for Dg combat besides Rook and Oak.

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