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[Balance] My judgement on current skills

By on December 21, 2008 12:58:46 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

My comments on the skills from each demigod, as it stands at the time of posting.

The rook

Hammer slam - only effective against enemy melee where boulder roll can be used to give time for the cast. Otherwise, too long cast to have any use. 3/5

Towers - Archer tower, seems to fire only at enemies in front of the demigod. Doesn't do a lot of damage, but 1 point it's fair enough. 3/5. Tower of Light - the core of the Rook trying to build networks of towers. Truly great for extending the network, adds a lot of flavour to the class. 5/5 if used properly. Trebuchet - cool idea, seems to miss about 90% of its shots. Even though it does AOE damage, its still a waste. 1/5

Bouder Roll - For a slow demigod, this is the perfect ability both to get into and get out of combat. Since it is an AOE stun with massive range, this is the strongest ability by far for the rook. Probably too strong at the moment. A lesser stun timer would have to be accompanied by a lesser cast time on Hammer Slam. Currently above 5/5

Power of the Tower - Towers seem to do little damage, their primary functions seem to be to extend the network of lights as well as produce health from Structural Transfer. They fade fast, and altogheter this seems like a really weak skill. The animation is longer than the cast time which is confusing. 2/5

God Strength - dull, but good for any melee. Nice extra animation. 4/5

Structural Transfer - The idea is brilliant, but the cooldown is too long or the effect is too weak. It is good for extending the Rook on the battlefield, but is way too weak to be used when fighting other demigods. 2/5

The rook overall with 1st ARMOR then DAMAGE gear - 3.5/5. Shines when in company with other demigods, as it cannot be bursted down (with some armor) and can thus push the front and hit the enemy demigods before they reach the ones behind the rook.

The Regulus

Snipe - 5/5. A great ability with a fun mechanic.

Maim - 2/5. It is at its best weaker than every other slow in the game. That combined with the ridicously short duration makes it a lackluster. Only good for chasing down runners. Increase duration or increase power.

Angelic Fury - bugged? Doesn't seem to add any extra damage. The explosion is too small for the damage it adds. 3/5

Tracking Device - 3/5. I'd like to see this remade into a longer range, on-use ability (possibly combined with snipe) with a longer duration. It is rather weak, but information is king, especially against human players.

Sniper's Scope - 2/5. Main function currently to keep the demigod autoattacking in creep fights since demigods tend to sleep in combat when ordered not to fight. I would like to see a higher range addition on this.

Mark of the Betrayer - 5/5 if it did what it said, currently bugged cast.

Explosive Mine - 5/5. THE Regulus skill, but lacks from poor scaling beyond level 20. If it scaled, it would be too good. I'd like to see bigger spread on the mines, so their trigger areas don't overlap. Possibly random spread instead of the same every time?

Regulus overall with pure damage gear and some life leech - 4/5. A well played Regulus is a destroyer and with snipe it can assist on demigod fights far away from its position. The best demigod to kite enemy demigods into your own lines. Slightly too weak at attacking enemy base.

The Unclean Beast

Venom spit - Long cooldown, low damage. Range attack for a melee character with no utility. ZZZ. Using the cast stops the character which enables runners to get away. 1/5. Make it instant with an -armor debuff.

Inner Beast - 5/5. Any % scales for this character is godly. 5% movement and autoattack speed per point is a given choice.

Foul Grasp - 5/5. Poor for 1v1, but extremely good for fighting in groups. I'd like to see it heal for more than it damages, 664 healing at lvl 15 is too little, considering the demigod is supposed to have life leech as one of its major strengths.

Ooze - Hard to rate due to unknown reduction in attack speed. Still, I'd give it 2/5. I would like to see it stronger at lower levels, like the Mist.

Diseased Claws - 4/5. Duration good, amount slowed is good, the unclean beast has a lot of movement speed plus on himself usually. It keeps the enemy in melee if you want him to be.

Beastial Wrath - 7/5 without stuns, 5/5 with stuns. This ability needs to be seriously reduced in power, if stuns are reduced in duration for other demigods. Combination of LARGE swipe attacks with increased damage is insane.

Post Mordem - 2/5. Good in the start of maps to take out clusters of creeps, but not available until lvl 5. Lacks punch to keep up after lvl 10. Possibly make it a proc for the UB instead of a "on kill" to keep it decent after war rank 5.

Plague - 2/5. Plague spreads nicely, and demigods that aren't careful will carry it back to base. It is a great idea, but loses some of its power due to enemy healers (reducing enemy health before they enter combat = nonexistant). I'd like to see a stat modifier or something added to the plague beyond the damage (damage is decent). Perhaps a -5% attack speed rating.

Unclean beast overall going for damage and health leech: 2/5. One of the strongest 1v1, it becomes by far the weakest in larger fights. Despite strong abilities, the Unclean Beast ultimately lacks the armor or health to stay in the fight long enough to contribute significant damage. Its large damage output makes it a natural choice to attack. Its dependence on melee combined with low survivability makes it a poor demigod. Needs conditional survival skills, temporary additional health leech (Beastial Wrath remake?) or escape abilities.Catapultsaurs  MURDER this demigod.

The Torch Bearer

I haven't really played this enough to give a good opinion, but I think that the frost nova has too short cooldown. I also think that the transformation between ice and fire should be faster, make it a cool utility instead of something negative. Possibly skills to add explosions / ice storms upon transformation? Or make it a teleport, the ice is destroyed and something bursts into flame somewhere else. The Torch Bearer feels quite strong, but range is often short and it is just as the Unclean Beast the best one to target in group fights. Depends on mana regen items to keep spells going, which draws focus from damage items. Strange scaling, since it depends on spells rather than autoattack damage unlike any other demigod. I have mostly played with Ice, which is decent both 1v1 and in group combat. I'd give this demigod a 3.5/5.

The Oak

Raise Dead Ward - Hard to rate since it is a utility spell unlike anything else. The spirits feel weak, but they do suck up damage from the enemy. Mixed with AOE combat, the number is almost always capped. Instead of adding 2 flags at the last level, I'd like to see longer duration on the flags as they are upgraded. Oh yeah, needs a duration timer to keep it in line. I wouldn't play an Oak without this ability, but its not super strong in itself. 3/5

Last Stand - 10/5 - Horribly overpowered. Needs massive change.

Soul Power - Obviously needs to be combined with the Ward skill. A very good +% damage modifier makes this an excellent choice. 5/5

Penitence - A great ability in group and solo play. Costs a lot of points to get it to full power. Duration perhaps a bit long. 4/5

Divine Justice - 3/5. Combined with being a general, this is the skill that allows the Oak to push the battlefront back.Lacks use against demigods.

Shield - 6/5. Too long duration combined with removing all debuffs? That's too much.

Surge of Faith - 6/5. Combined with Divine Justice, this will heal for a large amount of health. The added attack speed and movement speed is ridiculous. Divine Justice should not be able to "proc" on Surge of Faith. If it wasn't, I'd rate it 4/5.

The Oak Overall - Mixed Gear OR armor and regen gear OR all damage gear 6/5 - The Oak overall is too strong, which stems from its crazy utility spells like Shield and Penitence. The Oak is damn well near indestructible, but can still output a decent amount of damage. Too much like a Rook but with BETTER survival (yes, I said it). The Oak plays a similar role to the Rook in group combat, by staying in front of the squishier demigods and acting as a meat shield.

The Erebus

Bite - 6/5. Too short cooldown. Double cooldown, increase duration of debuff to 4 secs make up for it. This is the spell that keeps Erebus going for a long time. Balancing it properly is extremely important.

Improved Conversion Aura - 2/5. Lacks any real purpose except against AOE-happy enemy teams where your Night Walkers are slain constantly. The low amount of Night Walkers Erebus can control, combined with a rather large chance to get one makes this skill pretty pointless.

Mist - 7/5. Easily underestimated, it is a great AOE spell given too early, and a great defensive spell later on to prevent being bursted down by many enemy demigods. Can be used on the fly to dodge enemy fireballs, stuns, snipes. My problem with this, and why it is so overpowered, is that the demigod can keep it at rank 1 and reap the benefits from its defensive uses even late in the game. Staying in mist until Bat Swarm is up makes this demigod near unkillable. Larger ranks lack meaning, in my book. Instead of having the mist like it is now, I'd recommend a steady output of damage, increased with ranks like it is now (100-200-300-400) but instead of a static amount of health drained, it should be a percentage of Erebus' health improved with increasing ranks (8%-7%-6%-5%) damage per second. To counter how good the ability is made because of this, NO COOLDOWN should tick on any of his other skills while in the mist.

Bat Swarm 6/5. Great mobility coupled with AOE damage. The cast is too fast and / or the range is too long.

Coven - hard to rate since I am unsure how good Night Walkers are. Still, I consider this a must have for any Erebus build. 4/5

Mass Charm - poor scaling against demigods, but this is actually quite an interesting ability since it can disable large amounts of enemy creep for a long time which may be very interesting in large-scale combats. 4.5/5. The cooldown must be longer, couple this with +0.5 sec extra stun against demigods for level 3 and 4 (1.5 1.5 2 2).

Poisoned Blood 2/5. Poor scaling (make it do damage % of the takers health instead. 1500 is a lot for a torch bearer but nothing for a rook). Since friendlies can suffer the damage as well, it is a boring ability. Friends should not suffer, then it would be a much better ability. However, my rating is not based on wanting the Vampiric Aura so that also increases the value of Poisoned Blood somewhat.

Vampiric Aura - AOE life leech. Enough said. Needs to be carefully balanced, but I don't know exact numbers so I can't judge at this time.

The Erebus overall with mixed gear or all damage gear - 6/5. Perhaps the most mobile demigod in the game. Excels at 1v1 combat, lacks any real purpose in group fights. My high rating is due to the Bite Ability currently giving the demigod large amounts of health in combat, coupled with Mist to keep him from taking large amounts of damage. Not as unkillable as the Oak, but deadlier to make up for the difference. I feel that the Erebus lacks group utility and focuses more on his own power and damage output. The playstyle is just like an assassin (but you have to click 3 buttons to summon stuff sometimes), which is boring.

Well, that's it. My opinions. /Discuss?














+268 Karma | 14 Replies
December 21, 2008 2:27:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I mostly agree but I have found unclean beast alittle weak in early game but comes through late ableing to detroy units and stun DG's makes him extremely deadly with groups.

December 21, 2008 2:53:38 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree with most of what you said, but feel that you should mention in the late game all of the damage spells go from 5/5 to 1/5. 1000 damage may be awesome the first 30 seconds you get fireball, but 10 minutes later it's not so good. Same with bite and all other abilities not based off a % of the hero.

December 21, 2008 3:05:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

nah some spells just nead better timing late game. Like put down regulus mines in the midst of a huge battle(bam most units die and DG's get some damage) than units go in for the kill.

December 21, 2008 5:32:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

That's actually quite wrong and highly illogical.

Explain to me the use of a fireball that does 1,000 damage when you're doing 1200 DPS?

Or tell me the use of bite (500 hp dmg 500 hp heal) when you're doing 1,000 DPS with 15%-25% life steal?

There's no "timing" involved.

Sure, for AoE spells that may be true but any single target damage spell becomes useless in the late game.

December 21, 2008 6:19:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Fireball has higher range, and bite brings armor and slow debuff if I remember correctly.

December 21, 2008 6:59:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually, I'm pretty all bite does is 500/500.

And on the 2-3 seconds you spend casting fireball, you can get twice as close to the enemy as you were, negating the "ranged" advantage. Besides, the radius is pretty small for it anyway.

December 21, 2008 7:10:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great post.

Someone brought up a level based component to the damage spells, and I think that could work really well. Like fireball 1 hitting for 100 damage +20 per level then 200 +30/level etc. We don't need % based damage spells because then health would mean nothing against a spellcaster.

I agree that the Oak and Erebus are overpowered right now, they're meant to be weaker 1v1 characters (and I mean 1v1, not 1v1+vampires/spirits) but right now they can totally own any other demigod even without their creeps.

On a side note, if you're playing on a smaller map (prison right now) and 1v1, Regulus and the Tourchbearer can be devestating, they can simply deny experience to the enemy demigod, making it a level 5 anydemigod vs level 20 Reg/TB. I don't think this "stronger in the beginning, weaker in late game" and the opposite mechanic could work well in a game like this. We need balance in every level with every demigod.

December 21, 2008 9:44:57 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting ZeratulTheDT,
Actually, I'm pretty all bite does is 500/500.

And on the 2-3 seconds you spend casting fireball, you can get twice as close to the enemy as you were, negating the "ranged" advantage. Besides, the radius is pretty small for it anyway.


Bite does a debuff on the target, check the in-game skill. And the reason you should be using fireball is in that time, instead of you moving, you can get that cast off and let your enemy move instead.

December 21, 2008 9:48:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The only disagreement I have is Surge of Faith. I think it SHOULD stack with Divine Justice. I like being rewarded if I time the ability right after the first wave of a Rain of Ice or other AOE and heal myself and whoever is near me for a nice amount.

December 22, 2008 1:07:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

Bite does a debuff on the target, check the in-game skill. And the reason you should be using fireball is in that time, instead of you moving, you can get that cast off and let your enemy move instead.

True, but this is a pretty negligible reason to dump 5 points into a skill. It basically gives you an extra "hit" in ranged attacks - hardly worth the investment once you're in the super late game.

I definitely think all spells need to scale based off %'s of the hero, or that +spell damage artifacts need to be in the game. One of the two.

December 22, 2008 7:54:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Great analysis. You can bet I'll be printing this off and considering the feedback as I continue work on balance!

December 22, 2008 9:54:09 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Okay all spells that dodn't have an area of effect arn't so good late game but fireball does more than torch bearer can do normally if u dodn't get items that involve upping his damage alot.

January 8, 2009 11:25:16 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Sorry to necro (what happens when you look at people's karma) but I missed this thread and just want to bring in a couple of points:

1.  Heavenfall and Soccer are right.  DG abilities have utility in the late game beyond simple damage.  A stats direct-damage build can work fine, but saying that you are hitting for 1200 dmg and Fireball only does 1000 so you should just keep hitting is missing the point of the ability.   Fireball, like Snipe, can be triggered when the target is in range but launch long after the target has left range.  This is useful. 

2.  The utility of many late game abilities is directly related to their secondary effects like slow or interrupt, imo.  If an ability is useless after level 10 then we need to look at those secondary effects first, then look at damage.  There are exceptions like Snipe and Hammerslam, which work as intended and scale well, imo. 


January 8, 2009 3:30:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I agree with ke5tral that secondary effects play a big part late game. Also I usually dodnt do 1200 dmg a hit or even near that much yet I still win because i concentrate on other things rather than attack.

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