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[Suggestion] Torch Bearer's skills

By on October 1, 2008 2:34:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It is blatantly clear to everyone that the Torch Bearer is the coolest Demigod, but I think his skills could use some spicing up.  In his ice form he has 2 stun skills and one area of effect damage skill.  In his fire form he has one single target damage skill and three area of effect damage skills which, as I understand will be lowered to two so that he can revert to ice form at will.

I find this more acceptable for fire form than ice form, since it is advertised as being good at doing damage, and little else.  Having 2/3 of his abilities in ice form be stun abilities seems bland to me though, and it allows for one man stunlock chaining, which, while effective, is not usually fun to play against.

Frost nova seems so much better than deep freeze as to be nearly objectively superior.  For spending 3 skill points on deep freeze, you get a stun with a weak duration against a single target, or a strong one against a building.  With 2 points in frost nova you get an extremely good stun against mobs, a still good, but not painful to deal with stun against other demigods, on top of that, it's still very effective against buildings, and best of all, it hits targets in a large area of effect.

It seems to me that the only real uses for deep freeze are to either take out towers of light, which is fine, but doesn't seem worthy of an entire skill by itself, or for chaining it with frost nova to keep an enemy demigod frozen for 8 seconds, which would have to get really unfun to deal with all the time, since by the time you're allowed to defend yourself at all you've already lost half or more of your health.

Here are some of my ideas on how to change or replace deep freeze so that it is more fun and interesting, while still keeping with the theme of the Torch Bearer's ice form having good battlefield control abilities rather than directly destructive ones.

- Have it slow down the target's movement or attack speek rather than freezing them completely

- Change it to a debuff that lowers the target's attack power, regeneration speed, the strength of their skills, etc etc.

- Improving one's allies is a form of battlefield control just as surely as debuffing one's enemies is.  What about an armor of ice type ability that made the Torch Bearer's allies or himself harder to kill?  What about a frozen weapon skill that increases his or their damage?

- Area of effect versions of any of the above.

I'm sure all of you can think of a lot of interesting possibilities as well, so let's hear your ideas!  Alternately, feel free to say "Curseman, you're a moron, deep freeze is fine."

TL;DR version: Deep freeze is boring, make it better!

+2 Karma | 15 Replies
October 1, 2008 2:51:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

altho i agree that it is much weaker then the area effect and wasting a skill more i dont like any of the ideas about slowing them down instead of freezing except the ice armor i liked that 1

also the unclean beast is the coolest

October 1, 2008 5:29:04 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Deep freeze is fine.  Nova is the one that needs changing to be some aoe slow thing not freeze.

Well I take that back, Deep freeze isn't fine.  Pretyt much no skills are and they need improving.

Ice armor passive buff has been suggested(by me )

 

 

If I where to change Deep Freeze, though, the first thing i'd do is to make it a straight-line ground targeted projectile attack that only hits buildings and enemy Demigods.  It being a 3 second freeze is fun.  Though i'd make frozen people take less damage to balance it out.

 

Also.. the ice form is the best one right now, and makes TB the best character in the beta. *shrugs*

October 1, 2008 6:10:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting innociv,
Well I take that back, Deep freeze isn't fine.  Pretyt much no skills are and they need improving.

Right, which is to be expected, it's only beta 1.

Quoting innociv,
Ice armor passive buff has been suggested(by me )

If it's just a straight buff, then a passive is best just for the sake of convenience.  You could make it give and take (like, + defense and ice damage retaliation, but TB moves much more slowly) and then it would work as an active skill.  It would also work as a buff skill for teammates, but that might be moving things into a general's territory rather than an assassin's.

Quoting innociv,
If I where to change Deep Freeze, though, the first thing i'd do is to make it a straight-line ground targeted projectile attack that only hits buildings and enemy Demigods.  It being a 3 second freeze is fun.  Though i'd make frozen people take less damage to balance it out.

It's already weaker than frost nova in almost every way, and once generals are added in, unless something fundamental is changed, it's going to be fairly worthless, since TB will only be able to freeze the general demi or *one* of their minions, doing nothing to the rest of their army.

Quoting innociv,
Also.. the ice form is the best one right now, and makes TB the best character in the beta. *shrugs*

Yeah, I like ice form better, and I'm not saying the Torch Bearer is weak.  He rules.  I'm saying one of his skills is redundant and could be made more interesting mostly.

October 1, 2008 6:18:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dont know which is better (deep freez or frost nova) but sure one of them need a change.

skill I thoght about- freezing an area in the the ground instead of the target and every one who step on that ground get a debuff (slow/low hp/weak what ever u want) this give him an advatage against close combat without stuning them.

I also like the ice armor idea.

other note- vempire lord going to have the exect same skill as frost nova (mess charm) so one of them have to change.

hope that are ideas being heard. (I'm talking to u GPG  )

October 1, 2008 7:03:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

[quote who="X-Raider" reply="4" id="1894635"]I dont know which is better (deep freez or frost nova) but sure one of them need a change/quote]

Deep freeze takes 3 skill points to max out, and lets you freeze 1 Demigod or minion for 3 seconds, or one building for 15 seconds.

Frost nova takes 2 points to max and lets you do it to an entire force all at once and gives you 10 seconds for buildings and minions, and 5 seconds for demigods.

I consider Demigods to be the highest threat.  I would honestly prefer frost nova over deep freeze even if it could only target one enemy like deep freeze does.  The fact that you can freeze an entire fighting force for a significant duration of time wins it for deep freeze completely in my opinion.

I really don't think that an extra 5 seconds of not being shot at by a tower of light can make up for the other myriad disadvantages you get with taking deep freeze.  Also, as I said before, deep freeze will be nearly worthless against a general, where their fighting force is still free to act after casting it.

October 2, 2008 2:03:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

With ice armor i suggested it drain your own mana each time or something.. I forget.  It's in the ideas forum. 

Thing is you can only have 4 active skills.. 6 with TB  So it needs to be passive.

 

Frost nova is just bleh how it is now.  It's not good for the gameplay.  I'm pretty sure it'll get changed to just slow.

 

But the thing is it's not jsut deep freeze that's boring.  Pretty much all the skills are.  They're mostly things you've seen in 5 dozen games before it.
The most interesting ones would be hammer smash since it's ground target, delayed,so it takes some skill, but uslaly at least hits with aoe if you miss.  And the shoulder towers when you take into account how they link up with nearby towers o flight and you can place towers..

October 2, 2008 2:48:28 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

deep freeze casts faster, IINM in half the time. it's useful for locking down that low-hp enemy who is charging up their teleporting scroll. 

i find it only useful there, i typically get enough time to relive the immolation and cast a fireball on the hapless victim before he/she can leg it, or re-cast the scroll.

October 2, 2008 3:04:32 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting innociv,
But the thing is it's not jsut deep freeze that's boring.  Pretty much all the skills are.  They're mostly things you've seen in 5 dozen games before it.

I know this is true, but it's hard to come up with something truly original that will still be functional and fun.  If you have any ideas like that, I'd definitely be interested in hearing them, and the dev team probably would be too.

With that said though, the recurring elements in the rpg genre have become pretty deeply ingrained, and while it would be nice to see something really fresh and new, I'd be willing to settle for just dealing with the redundancy for now.

Quoting innociv,
Frost nova is just bleh how it is now.  It's not good for the gameplay.  I'm pretty sure it'll get changed to just slow.

I wouldn't mind this as long as the slowing effect diminished their attack speed as well as their movement speed.  Otherwise I probably wouldn't use it a terrible lot, and would probably just go with the Torch Bearer's fire form in most cases.

October 2, 2008 1:37:19 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Well GW did good at coming up with original things that are functional and fun.

Wizards of the Coast are always coming up with original mechanics for their new sets.

 

 

And yeah if nova is made slow it should slow casting/activating, attacking, and movement.

October 3, 2008 10:58:07 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It looks like with beta 1a deep freeze is no longer redundant, and it seems to be a pretty strong debuff.  The Torch Bearer can no longer chain stun, but frost nova is plenty good by itself, and deep freeze is actually interesting.  As an added bonus, permafrost and all fire abilities were improved as well.  Best of all, despite the introduction of the Unclean Beast, the Torch Bearer retains his position as the coolest demigod.

Nice job, GPG/Stardock!

October 3, 2008 12:05:20 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Rebalancing nearly all the skills in the game to have 5-20 second long recharges, and make enemies skills cast while under the effects of deep freeze take 10-15 seconds longer to recharge would be wayyyy much useful than 30% longer cooldowns.

 

Did anyone notice whether or not the deep freeze slow slows casting time or not?

October 6, 2008 12:33:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Curseman,
Best of all, despite the introduction of the Unclean Beast, the Torch Bearer retains his position as the coolest demigod.

 

in so many ways... no, Just no, and again for effect: Negatory.

Unclean Beast is better then TB, and the RooK is better then the TB and Regulus is... not the best, hes the most used and bland imo.

It is blatantly clear to everyone that the Torch Bearer is the coolest Demigod

Please dont make statements like this, you come off as some who thinks they have the only opinion, and its right, when again, your not, why are you not? cuz you think you are, therefore your not. If you would have said "I think Torch Bearer is the coolest, then you would have seemed better suited to have a better opinion, but thinking you have the best one, makes it one of the worthless ones.

 

sorry to scapegoat you, but I hate it when some one says an opinon has fact. They seem to give off this feeling that they are stuck up and pretty much pricks to everyone else...

 

in any case, this aint BETA 2, no gameplay tweakage yet (plus I dont play torchy, and when I do, I see no problem with him)

October 6, 2008 5:15:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Curseman,
reply 10
Best of all, despite the introduction of the Unclean Beast, the Torch Bearer retains his position as the coolest demigod.



in so many ways... no, Just no, and again for effect: Negatory.

lol so tru

 

October 7, 2008 12:32:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Reaver,
...but I hate it when some one says an opinon has fact. They seem to give off this feeling that they are stuck up and pretty much pricks to everyone else...

You need to take a joke a little bit better.

October 7, 2008 5:55:32 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

you need to make a joke a little bit better

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