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So you want to be a god?

By on July 22, 2008 1:59:46 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

In classic strategy games such as Total Annihilation and in Supreme Commander the player not only had their usual units but also had a commander -- a very powerful central unit that was particularly lethal and capable of doing many different things.

Demigod, in many respects, is the logical progression of this game mechanic.  In Demigod, players choose a hero to be their Demigod in a quest to becoming increasingly powerful.

In individual games that take place in arenas that, in my opinion, are a strategy gamer's panacea (even classic maps like Painted Desert in TA can't hold a candle to some of the cool arenas in Demigod), the Demigod will rise in level as he (or she) gains experience allowing for increasingly powerful abilities.

What is also cool is that outside these individual skirmishes these Demigods grow in power. This has some very important ramifications.  Besides making the single player experience much more interesting, it introduces a much better on-line experience.

Let me put it like this: Demigod is aiming to solve some of the most basic problems in on-line gaming: Because your Demigod gets better in a persistent universe, experienced players have an incentive to keep with their hero and its stats rather than "smurfing". 

Moreover, it creates a great deal of interesting match-making possibilities. Why not allow the option of someone who is really good at the game with a high level Demigod face off against 3 or 4 opponents online?  In Total Annihilation, I regularly would play against 4 or 5 players versus me and that was on a "level" playing field.  Of course, players can still opt to the traditional on-line skirmishes where everything starts on the same playing field. But with Demigod, players will have more options.

I am sure I'm not the only guy who remembers the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring (the movie) where Sauron is trashing Elven and human butt and thinking "ooh, I'd so like to be able to do that!"  In Demigod you are the Sauron.

+83 Karma | 48 Replies
July 23, 2008 10:58:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Is this kind of like Black and White was? You level your Demigod in single player and then can take him online to compete with others? Sounds like a cool game option, I guess.


No, I don't think so...

If I understand it, you have a couple of "options". Games where everyone starts out "even", with no advantage (ranked matches), games where you *can* have higher / lower levels, and the singleplayer "experience". I have no idea if singleplayer "grinding" can earn you multiplayer stuff, though, that should be interesting to see.
July 24, 2008 12:34:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
I'm just the opposite... I hate multiplayer games, I detest them, and I despise them specifically when you're not allowed to enjoy the full content or available items unless you play multi-player, and there's been a whole slew of games to do just that. Two recent examples are Stranger and World Shift. The game play sounded like a great deal of fun, but the developers explicitly stated that you could play single player, but unless you were playing multi-player, you'd miss out on the majority of content and available items. What a gyp...I want a deep, engrossing, and challenging game, but I do not want to depend on others for my fun, nor do I want to be griefed because I'm not as hard core as someone else...


You missed the point I was making entirely..

July 24, 2008 2:28:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
You missed the point I was making entirely..

Then what was you point? 'Cause if they missed it, I missed it. Probably other people, too.
July 24, 2008 9:39:57 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
I'm just the opposite... I hate multiplayer games, I detest them, and I despise them specifically when you're not allowed to enjoy the full content or available items unless you play multi-player, and there's been a whole slew of games to do just that. Two recent examples are Stranger and World Shift. The game play sounded like a great deal of fun, but the developers explicitly stated that you could play single player, but unless you were playing multi-player, you'd miss out on the majority of content and available items. What a gyp...I want a deep, engrossing, and challenging game, but I do not want to depend on others for my fun, nor do I want to be griefed because I'm not as hard core as someone else...



No offense but Demigod might not be the game for you, then. It has been said from the beginning that it is supposed to be mostly a multiplayer game.
July 24, 2008 12:41:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
No offense but Demigod might not be the game for you, then. It has been said from the beginning that it is supposed to be mostly a multiplayer game.


Yes, that was said in the beginning. However, later Brad did post (either a news item or dev journal, I don't remember) that they are developing a unique single player mode for the game, as well.

Still, the longevity of fast-paced RTS games is typically in a) modding and multiplayer.
July 24, 2008 9:15:40 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

No offense but Demigod might not be the game for you, then. It has been said from the beginning that it is supposed to be mostly a multiplayer game.

Since Stardock got involved, the scope of the game has increased.

See the Gamespot Q&A from Chris Taylor and I.  Basically, we've combined our design efforts - his multiplayer mojo and my single player love.

Some people seem to be looking for comparisons with other games but there really aren't any.  In multiplayer, you will have the standard way of doing competitive play. But what we're looking to ADD to that is the ability to participate in a persistent universe as well.

Similarly, in single player, you will have either the standard "skirmish" or play in a persistent (to your own single player game) virtual world where you're building up your demigod and he becomes increasingly powerful and starts interacting with other increasingly powerful demigods.

It's about expanding the options available to players.

July 24, 2008 9:18:52 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
This whole thing about having the option to use a leveled demigod in a game worried me a little, I understand it's for non-ranked games only but I've played several other games where game modes seriously split the community as a lot of gamers will simply opt in the easier option.

I think you'll find less people willing to play ranked matches because they can't use their leveled demigod to smash lower level players. While people might refute this now, I'd be careful though because I don't want to see the game being flooded with en-mass of leveled demigod only games because they got rolled in a game that's "even". I can see it being majority of people just using their leveled gods instead of playing ranked for the reason it's easier which appeals to a number of gamers who simply will always take the easiest option.

Just please be careful, this news worried me out of everything I've heard some of these decisions could be multiplayer game breaking. I worry about my pre-order now and only want the best out of this so hopefully theres some middle ground to be revealed about this.
July 24, 2008 9:36:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'd be careful though because I don't want to see the game being flooded with en-mass of leveled demigod only games because they got rolled in a game that's "even". I can see it being majority of people just using their leveled gods instead of playing ranked for the reason it's easier which appeals to a number of gamers who simply will always take the easiest option.


But by the same logic, wouldn't it be fair to say that maybe the people who aren't interested in traditional competitiveness and would thus primarily use the persistant-Demigod mode would never pick up the game if the traditional competitive mode is the only thing that's included?

July 24, 2008 9:53:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
not at all, if you take dota for example beteween the normal games of sm/em and normal games. A lot of lesser skilled players flocked to sm/em because it was simply easier. The community was there and then was segmented pretty severely and it took a toll on the options that either player could enjoy but in the end it had majority of easy mode games running and you could barely find a normal mode game to play..

This game was compared to quite a few games which start on an even footing which is what had me interested from the get go so it's pretty unfair to whip this out of the blue after people have pre-ordered.. I'm just curious as to who thinks it's a good idea to segment the community one way or the other and it will happen theres not much of a shadow of a doubt. I would've pre-ordered if it was the leveled demigod regardless but I feel kind of mis-lead now and worry that the game mode of my liking will be overshadowed by it's easier counter-part and less competitive.
July 24, 2008 9:54:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Heck, personally I think both sides have something to offer. "Pure skills" ladder, and grudge-match "who can conquer the galaxy" boneyards style "who becomes the new god!" battleground. Hit the "large map" with a reset every once in a while (whoo-hoo, I win! -- someone becomes the god) and all is good.
July 24, 2008 9:58:59 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Undoubtedly both sides have pros and cons but I guess I can only hope that these fun modes have limited gameplay or something, not everything the normal mode has to offer as to entice people to play the more even mode. It'll be a sad day when I'm forced to play a mode I would get less enjoyment out of.

Here's to hoping it doesn't end up like other games.
July 25, 2008 5:03:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
20-50 min games are PERFECT. And I think 2v2 games are where the fun is
July 25, 2008 9:30:33 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
@Zellogs

I'd like to think that you'll be able to see your opponents level before you join one of these games. Assuming low level players can still host games and that there's still the option of kicking players from games -- both of which are a given in any game -- this isn't going to be much of a problem.

Some level 50 player joins your level 5 game? Kick 'em! No matter how someone may love to grief newbies, there'll be no point of they get kicked from every game.

I'm more worried about games between say, a level 15 player and a level 16 player, or even level 15 vs level 18. I think it would be exceedingly difficult to get a decent game started if you had to stick to players your exact level.
July 25, 2008 10:49:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
After reading the interview, some questions were answered but now I have many more.

The game seems to have everything. Single player, Multi-player arena (all start from scratch), Multiplayer persistant.

Some reference has been made to TA: Boneyards in both the interviews and on this forum. I never played this, so I've included a couple of links to help others like me learn a little more about what Boneyards was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boneyards
http://www.fileuniverse.com/Total_Annihilation_Mirror/totala/flynn4.html

@Zellogs
I'm hoping that the game is such a success that there won't be any worries about not having enough people for your favorite mode. For example, WOW has PvE, PvP, and Role Playing servers. There may be more people that play PvE than any other, but there are still many other full servers for the other modes.
July 25, 2008 11:04:34 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
I personally think that having purely aesthetic persistence would be a really cool option and a place to spend your points / time on after maxing out your particular demigod and minions and what not.
It would also have the benefit of not affecting gameplay in the traditional "skirmishes" of RTS gaming.

Changing how your demigod looks or changing how some of your minions look in some ways would be really cool. I think it would extend the life span of the game because you'll have more things to do. And since they wouldn't really affect gameplay, they would only optional and there is no need for people who don't want to do it to do it at all.

That way, the people who like the multiplayer skirmishes without a "grinding" element where its all about skill pitted against skill. And it could also just be an additional multiplayer mode. Everyone could still have everything that they wanted. Its good having multiple modes = ]

July 25, 2008 12:54:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This whole thing about having the option to use a leveled demigod in a game worried me a little, I understand it's for non-ranked games only but I've played several other games where game modes seriously split the community as a lot of gamers will simply opt in the easier option.

This assumes that most or all people playing the online persistent campaign mode woudl have been just playing tournaments. I can assure you that is not the case.  I know plenty of people, myself included, who won't do traditional on-line ranked games anymore, just don't have enough patience with that.  The persistent online campaign, by contrast, is something I would totally get into.

July 25, 2008 12:58:34 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

not at all, if you take dota for example beteween the normal games of sm/em and normal games. A lot of lesser skilled players flocked to sm/em because it was simply easier. The community was there and then was segmented pretty severely and it took a toll on the options that either player could enjoy but in the end it had majority of easy mode games running and you could barely find a normal mode game to play..

It's not about being "less skilled". It's about what one wants to get out of multiplayer.  As the top ranked FFA boneyards player for over a year, I feel I'm in a position to say that I'm pretty good at competitive multiplayer. I played Total Annihilation in PGL.  But now? I won't bother with ranked games because I don't find them interesting anymore. Been there, done that.

By contrast, in a persistent online campaign, there can be all kinds of experimentation.  A player witha very powerful Demigod might end up in a game with 3 or 4 opponents (the match making system is based on putting together a very even game) and I know I would find that fun. 

 

July 25, 2008 1:40:50 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
By contrast, in a persistent online campaign, there can be all kinds of experimentation. A player witha very powerful Demigod might end up in a game with 3 or 4 opponents (the match making system is based on putting together a very even game) and I know I would find that fun.


See bolded. This is the key. If the matchmaking system is effective, I have no worries that the games will be good, challenging, rewarding, etc.

Not sure how points will be assigned if its all or nothing, slow progressions, or spikes. I play alot of COD4 on Gamebattles. Ranking is determined by experience points which are gained as you play other clans. If you win, you get points. If you lose, they are taken away. Winning against higher ranked teams yields more points and likewise winning against lower ranked teams yield less. Losing against higher ranked teams losses less points, while losing against low ranked teams will take away more xp points.

Not implying the same system (win = get points, lose = lose points) should be used. I am curious as to what models are being considered. Are points given based on the final outcome (team destroyed the opposing base), individual performance (hero kills, feats, etc) or some combination of both? Are you ever penalized in your overall progression for losing or dying? Does the losing team still recieve some benefit for playing the match?

Just trying to get a handle on a system that may not even exit yet. Any info would be appreciated, thanks.
July 25, 2008 2:14:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This assumes that most or all people playing the online persistent campaign mode woudl have been just playing tournaments. I can assure you that is not the case.?? I know plenty of people, myself included, who won't do traditional on-line ranked games anymore, just don't have enough patience with that.?? The persistent online campaign, by contrast, is something I would totally get into.


Frogboy,
???? agreed!

I had enough of the online-ladder-stat-padding craziness from World in Conflict to last me a lifetime. I stopped playing that game in November (eventhough I had it since the beta) because of the smurfing stat-padders. The only reason I still visit their forums is to check for people needing networking help. Sad really.

Sooo looking forward to Demigod!

the Monk
July 25, 2008 2:26:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
The only reason I still visit their forums is to check for people needing networking help. Sad really.


You'll be happy to know that I can confirm that that is, indeed, quite sad.
July 25, 2008 2:45:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You'll be happy to know that I can confirm that that is, indeed, quite sad.



Damn...what I meant was.....oh whatever Anny.....you win! ????
July 25, 2008 3:48:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
now we all need to spread the word to get a community large enough to sustain all that variety
July 25, 2008 4:04:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
I think once the marketing campaign gets underway that won't be much of an issue. Especially if they keep hooking on the DOTA-style, imagine how many people it can lure away from WC3
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