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The game industry’s problem with misogyny

By on July 23, 2014 1:29:48 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

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The Internet is toxic, but its toxicity is usually equal opportunity

One of the more annoying trends in our society has been the substitution of action with rhetoric.  This has really taken off in the age of Twitter where people think hashtags are a replacement for actually doing something.

Today I read an Opinion Piece on Polygon called “No Skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry”  by a woman named Brianna Wu. It's an article I recommend checking out.

However, I do have some criticisms of the piece. For starters, it is a bad piece of journalism. It relies completely on sensationalist emotionalism to back up its blanket assertion (“the daily harassment of women in the game industry”). 

Such articles, even opinion pieces, are apparently not open to discussion.  As soon as I expressed some criticism on Twitter the haters came out in force. All sense of reason evaporated.  My criticism was: Be aware that sometimes allegations of sexual harassment are false (remember what happened to me). Sometimes, some women choose to take criticism/teasing/abuse as being due to their sex. 

Let me give you the part from the article that caused me to write my tweet in the first place. 

This is the example Ms. Wu provides as an example of sexual harassment women face:

Two things to point out about this: First, anonymous user (which is one of the sources of why Internet discussion can get so toxic) and second, while clearly abusive, this has nothing to do with the writer being female.  I have gotten tweets to me very similar to this when I've made a casual tweet regarding a game console. Ask Phil Fish about internet abuse. Trolls will cater their trolling to their target.

The point of my tweet is that we need to be careful on this because *sometimes* the allegation that it's *sexual* harassment is false. 

The article provides 4 such anecdotes. The Internet has plenty of vile behavior that many of us run into regularly. But this article tries to make sweeping conclusions with it. I take issue with articles that make sweeping (and arguably sexist) charges against men using 4 anecdotes as evidence.

If we were debating any other topic and someone made a broad, far reaching claim and backed it up with nothing more than 4 anecdotal examples they’d get reamed.  But because we are talking about an ism, it is taboo to raise any skepticism about the article’s agenda.

I’ve been in the game industry a long time. I’ve seen its ugliness in many different forms. So let me tell you: This subject matter is delicate and should be treated as such. 

So let's look at the responses I got when I tweeted that women sometimes make false claims of "sexual harassment" when in fact what they received had nothing to do with their sex:

To which I respond:

Which gets:

Buzzfeed's Nicol Leffel goes right to name-calling almost immediately.

Ugh. There were much more vile responses than these but I blocked them and now I can't find them on twitter.  The point being, even attempting to discuss the topic invites assumptions of sexism and abuse.

There IS misogyny in the game industry but not where the professional victims would have you believe

The misogyny I've seen in our industry is not representative of game culture in general but is a manifestation of Internet toxicity. Let's start with the sexist reaction successful women in the game industry often receive. When a man does something impressive and gets some publicity, they get kudos and support.  But if a woman does something impressive and gets the same publicity, their experience is likely to be terrible and humiliating.  I’ve seen this first hand and it’s discouraging.  But it would be wrong to imply that this is a general issue. Internet culture is toxic.  

...But we have to be careful that this issue isn't exploited by opportunistic people to for professional or personal gain.

I have first hand experience with this. Those of you who know me know the hell I went through when I was falsely accused of "sexual harassment" by a former, opportunistic employee who was hoping for a quick pay off.  

Let me say it plainly: There are women who will exploit this delicate topic for financial or professional gain. Maybe they’re “journalists” who know it’s a quick, easy way to get their article published on Kotaku. Maybe it’s a former journalist whose just gotten into the game industry who wants her upcoming project to get coverage. Or maybe it’s a young woman mad at her boss who wants to exploit the issue to make money. And of course, maybe it’s a legitimate reporting on a serious problem. But sorry, I’m a skeptic now. I didn’t use to be such a skeptic but 2 years of unwarranted smears and death threats have made me take these claims with a grain of salt.

So what can we do?

I’m an engineer, I’m interested in solutions and I think there is a lot we can do to address this issue:

  1. Punish people who harass other people. I.e. Permanently ban someone who writes the kind of disgusting invective that the article cites.  XBox Live and other services allow for an immense level of abuse of all kinds. Don’t tolerate it anymore.
     
  2. Eliminate anonymous profiles on social networks like Xbox Live, Twitter, YouTube. Game sites could eliminate comment anonymity if they were genuinely concerned about this issue.  Anonymity has a place on the net -- forums, groups, etc.  But mainstream social networking should not be anonymous. Maybe it's not doable but as long as it is, trolls will be able to exploit this.
     (I've changed my mind on #2)

  3. Encourage / Reward those who actually DO something. The reason “white knighting” is despised is because it’s really about people making themselves feel good about themselves.   Less rewarding of progressive rhetoric and more reward of progressive action.
     
  4. Encourage people to talk about the transformative effects of a more diversified working environment. We hire a lot of women because it makes our products better. Not because women are “just as good” as men but rather because men and women bring unique strengths.

    Running a company dominated by one sex puts them at a distinct disadvantage in the talent area.  Men and women are different.  Here’s a “sexist” statement: It has been my experience that women are better at UI design than men. I have no idea why. That’s 20 years of observation talking. Men tend to be better at debugging. No idea why. Don’t care. Both seem to be equally effective at writing buggy code.

     
  5. Scrutinize and punish those who make false claims on this topic. We need to be very very careful about tarring and feathering people on this issue. Don’t reward those who are trying to profit from playing the sexism card.

Choose to be part of the solution: Do your part to make the Internet a less toxic environment. Don’t just blindly support empty, feel good pap. Keep your critical thinking cap on.

Update: Slashdot comments are very interesting and in stark contrast to the empty progressive rhetoric on Twitter. http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/07/22/229256/the-daily-harassment-of-women-in-the-game-industry

Update 2: Added more content, added item #2 regarding anonymity. Fixed Typos. (see edit history).

Update 3: Added pics from Twitter.

Update 4: Typos, streamlined.

Update 5: Crossed out item 2. I've been persuaded that it's a bad idea. 

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September 2, 2014 11:33:58 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am not sure why this issue is such a lightning rod to passionate feelings. Imagine if all this energy were dedicated to protesting the real issues in the world, like the TPP, financial crimes, hard analysis of climate science, the surveillance state, etc.

 

I don't actually care that tramp developers are fucking people to win awards and get good press coverage for their video games.  I find it hilarious really.  It's the rank dishonesty in the press that bothers me.  This is just the latest example of how the media is corrupt, incompetent, and rife with nepotism.

 

I've read lots of game reviews, having already played the games, and found more errors than not.  The forum I post this from would be the forum of an RPG if one Sins reviewer had actually been correct in their article.  Mechanically inaccurate information is the norm, major oversights to the extent of not being able to recognize the game in the article are rare, but inexcusable breaches of ethics.

 

Game reviewers regularly do articles with next to no time spent on the subject material.  I frequently see articles that, instead of referencing their own experiences, refer to other people on the internet having technical issues.  I don't pity the fools that used Starforce and screwed themselves with their own paranoia, but there were games that ran perfectly fine unless you were playing a pirated copy, yet got a widespread trashing from the reviewers over their mythical stability problems.  If you want to check the stability of a game, as a reviewer, you run it on a diverse array of hardware yourself.  You don't look at the internet and see if pirates are trashing it.

 

If you were a columnist for a major newspaper and you got caught doing reviews for products or services you hadn't used, you would be unemployable.  Livelihoods and reputations depend on these reviews, it's not a non-issue just because the subject matter is entertainment.

 

There is zero accountability for these people.  The rank accuracy problem has been going on for better than a decade, and recently they've been pimping these political diatribes as if games are an affront to women.  Their response to getting caught in a major violation of what little trust they have in the first place, is to call everyone misogynists and double down on their corruption.

 

Just think what this will do for our media as a whole.  The news in general is hugely biased and sloppy in their journalism, but they draw the line far sooner than these pathetic fucks.  The disease might spread if these cancers aren't excised, every last one of them needs to be asking if you'd like fries with that.

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September 2, 2014 1:42:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums


Today I read an Opinion Piece on Polygon called “No Skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry”  It’s a good piece and one I think you should read. 

The hypocrisy is astounding 

Brianna Wu is a self proclaimed feminist that regularly harasses developers into making games more politically correct. Below is a video of her game, Revolution 60, which is not my cup of tea, but I can see the market for it. What is amazing is the, I don't know, double standard? have the cake and eat it too? 

All female cast, men as faceless, non speaking, tropes to be killed for points, and the females are all very skinny, big breasted, with basically body paint for clothes. Now where have we heard complaints about that before? Oh we haven't. unless it was designed by a man. Maybe Anita Sarkeesian, her friend and supporter, should actually look at the game she supports?

Just need to look at the hate of a belly button here or the recent spider woman 'variant cover' ass hate here.

 Few more of classic Spider-man

http://caffeineforge.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/wall-crawling.jpg?w=518

http://media.comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Amazing-Spider-Man-2-Game.png

 

Look into Assassins Creed new female character.

E3 2014: Ubisoft Explains Why Assassin's Creed Unity Lacks Female Leads

Ubisoft's work would have been "doubled" if it had included playable female characters.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-ubisoft-explains-why-assassin-s-creed-unity-lacks-female-leads/1100-6420359/


Ahh, just a bunch of privileged white cis males, who cares if the work is doubled right?

 

 

Another statement that just boggles the mind 

When I first heard about Julie Ann Hovarth’s allegations of gender-based harassment at GitHub, my stomach churned. Not because sexual harassment is a dreadful subject, which it is – but because I knew another female software developer was about to go through hell, regardless whether her allegations were true or not.

http://www.themarysue.com/julie-ann-horvarth-github-investigation/

So.. the man never went through hell? regardless whether her allegations were true or not? 


But ya, just keep telling me how feminism is about equality.   


If Wu would just stick to making games, and not have a weekly podcast pushing social justice, maybe she could make a good living from what she claims to love. Nope, have to make sure she and her ilk get to look over every developers shoulder and give the feminist stamp of approval, then feed off receiving a pile of condemnation from her critics, which a small minority, if any, are actually threats of violence, and not just a small thrashing like I did here.

 

 

 

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September 2, 2014 8:00:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting myfist0,

http://girlagainstfeminism.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/why-girls-cant-handle-video-games-2/

Also, checkout Karen Straughan's (A.K.A. Girl Writes What) response. GWW does some brilliant work, I highly recommend you look at her video blogs and lectures.

 

good finds.

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September 3, 2014 8:28:18 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Well the latest victim of the feminist takeover of the gaming industry is Mojang, makers of Minecraft.

With the latest update, they changed the default character from male to female, and claim that the new character is unisex.

Anyone with an ounce of honesty can tell the new character is female, and not genderless.

The right thing to do would be to allow the player to choose their character in the game setup options.

But no, they had to cave into the feminist agenda, and allow the pendulum to swing from one extreme to the other.

 

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September 3, 2014 12:48:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,

Well the latest victim of the feminist takeover of the gaming industry is Mojang, makers of Minecraft.

With the latest update, they changed the default character from male to female, and claim that the new character is unisex.

Anyone with an ounce of honesty can tell the new character is female, and not genderless.

The right thing to do would be to allow the player to choose their character in the game setup options.

 

face to palm

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September 4, 2014 5:08:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Gentlemen, we have a new leader....

 

and there is one thing Anita has taught me, and a good lesson to all the other young up and coming gamers ...

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September 4, 2014 5:55:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

lol @ mario

thx

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September 6, 2014 7:08:38 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I read an article against Stardock and These sex claims. And I've seen Brads tweets. I honestly don't know which one to believe, though I lean towards Brads favour haha.

Though I can see if somebody just read the article i read it would be easy to judge solely from it, media is extremely powerful as most people take it for fact and in most cases why wouldn't we. Nobody has the time or care to search 'everything' they read for evidence (like to make sure a quote is real for instance.) which is why I personally like to try and keep an open mind and never take anything I'm told as fact unless fully supported.

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October 22, 2014 6:02:58 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Came across this article this morning...while not fully germane, it does bear somewhat on the topic as to the origins of the misogyny, along with War Games and Weird Science:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/21/npr-women-in-computer-science-drop/?utm_source=Feed_Classic_Full&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Engadget&?ncid=rss_full

Then, there's this aspect...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/14/sarkeesian-threats-utah-state-university/

 

 

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October 27, 2014 11:52:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great post Frogboy.. it's so true, the issue is genuine, as there is genuine misogyny in our society. However, most of the most vocal and sensationalist proponents of "feminism" are poor representatives of it. Here is a good representative of true and honest feminism: 

Oh, and off topic.. I was so disappointed with Sid Meier's Civilization Beyond Earth that I re-installed Fallen Enchantress to fill the void in my heart. At least that game has character and is more fun. I just hope it's less buggy than last time I tried it, July 2013. Thankfully a friend bought me Civ Beyond Earth, so I didn't waste a dime.

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October 28, 2014 11:01:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

One thing that I've found mildly annoying over the past decade or so is not the inclusion of, but companies changing the default language of their manuals/text to the female pronoun.  I understand that the intent was to make their company give off the air that they're inclusive of all genders, just that in many cases it seemed forced and IMO a bit patronizing.

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