pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

By on June 6, 2014 4:53:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Update 5/5/2016 -Stream is back!

 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  http://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 

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awuffleablehedgie
May 6, 2015 2:49:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Horribly inconsistent could do it I guess, I can't really see that guy being below gold though unless ADC is the only thing he can do.

 

Every bad ADC I support for has the same problem, they don't trade and they can't last hit for shit, he did both better than I can despite doing it wrong and not leading with AA's, and I nearly always win lanes when I ADC because it's literally retard ville down here.  160 cs in 20 minutes without a lane opponent is probably an optimistic goal for most.

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May 6, 2015 11:42:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

level 2 bard here - I'm kind of a big deal.  hue.  Anyway, here's what I learned.  I played 2 games, 2 wins with decent stats both games and kda.  1k + mastery experience per game.  Game 1 where I had a 7.5 kda gave me a rating of A+.  Game 2 where I was a bit worse with a 4.75 kda gave me S (S is the highest rating).  Not really sure why that was exactly.  I was matched up against a diamond 4 support, so maybe that... no idea though.

I looked at someone that lost a game as a champ.  His mastery is at 200 pts total for a loss. riot's faq indicates that:

  • We expect players to take 15-30 games to level through the first set of levels (1 through 5). We’ll be unlocking additional levels later.

 

So, the general poop truth of the matter is that likely everyone will appear to as a champion "master" even if they are poop provided they play enough games.  As longs as points are not deducted, its kind of a silly grind - fun... but a little more on the pointless side I'm thinking.  Nice to know someone played a ton of poppy i suppose.   Less nice to learn that my master adc is an awful adc.  No demotions or decay are planned.  

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May 7, 2015 10:25:33 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Here's a really good kalista tip that I did not know. I know thunder is kind of into her right now, so this should be useful.  Its a quick guide on setting up the spirits so they map a big loop providing very good vision of dragon and the possible gank routes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/355a3n/trick_with_kalistas_ghosts_w/

 

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May 8, 2015 12:40:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oi - let's knock out our remaining ranked team rewards for the season.  3 tiers. I'm at 36/45 points for tier 2. I'll play w/e role is needed.  

I'm guessing we all dig the rewards and aren't really concerned about the elo itself.  So, why don't we knock out a few a week?  Or at least 1.  I'm not sure, but I think we are pretty close to knocking em out.  

Side note... I'm changing ISP's on Sat, so I'm hoping things don't become awful.  

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May 8, 2015 12:11:37 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Id also like to play some team games. Its been a while. I am also in a bit of a slump mid lane so I would gladly play else where for 5's.

Champion mastery: So far I find it pretty silly. It seems the points gained are pretty much a flat rate on a win or loss with a champion. I carried really hard as brand in a game last night and I got 13XX points and Brad had a rough game and ended up with exactly the same points. So basically it boils down to did I win game? I did ok heres 1000 more points than you get when you lose.

 

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May 8, 2015 12:22:10 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

I did ok heres 1000 more points than you get when you lose.

yup... that sounds about right.  kind of smeh

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May 8, 2015 4:33:21 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

It should really be calculated on stats such as KDA, creep score, Kill participation and objectives taken and have nothing to do with the outcome of the game (or very little maybe a few hundred bounce points).

This would make a lot more sense and actually make players want to play better in losing games since they would still be getting a reward toward there champion mastery. The current formula has far to few variables in it contributing to the total number of points.

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May 8, 2015 4:33:53 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Riot missed a golden opprotunity with this one and I hope they higher some physics majors to make better equations for them.

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May 8, 2015 5:10:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Pretty sure they have plenty of computer scientists who understand basic linear algebra and matrices just fine

More likely the issue is that the people who designed the system were psychologists and marketers.

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May 8, 2015 5:33:11 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

Pretty sure they have plenty of computer scientists who understand basic linear algebra and matrices just fine

More likely the issue is that the people who designed the system were psychologists and marketers.

I think that even a lot of psychologists nowadays would look at a problem like this and say "hey, we could do something similar to a PCA".  The kind of psychologists who work at Riot should do stuff like factor analysis and the like.

I think its more likely that they did the analysis and found that there wasn't any good way to correlate whatever linear combination of stats the analysis came up with all that closely with winning.  At least not in a particularly causal way.  So they probably just gave up and based the mastery points on winning.

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May 8, 2015 8:54:18 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Well, I can't connect to chat tonight.  Thats fun.  I believe that you can try and manually invite me to games, so go ahead and try that if you want.

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May 8, 2015 9:11:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I had the chat error.  Just started working again for me about 10 min ago.  Suggest you relog if you still aren't connected.  

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May 8, 2015 11:46:11 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

Riot missed a golden opprotunity with this one and I hope they higher some physics majors to make better equations for them.

Nah.  Anything other than what they did would have been a horrible idea.

 

Give people more points or only award mastery of a champ for stats based on KDA and total CS?

People already freak out over KSing.  Riot should give them more reason to?  There are already enough people out there that refuse to group and win games.  No reason to award them for trying to pad their own stats by split pushing.

 

Only give mastery of champs for an individuals best champs?

I'm better at Leona than Thresh.  Because Leona is easy as hell to play.  I know that.  Don't need master Riot equationists to inform me of what I already know.  And maybe I play certain champs in certain sorts of games.  I'd probably a Lee Sin Master on my smurf account from the insane KDA I had when playing with my IRL friends.  That would be stupid.  And so would Riot motivating you guys to friend request my IRL buddies so you could stomp bad players to easily become 'masters' of your favorite champs.

 

Give people champions mastery only if they perform at a certain skill level for a champ?

Well, I want that skill level to be Gold V.  Pacov wants it at Plat V.  Cow wants it to be Diamond V.  Wherever you put the line at, Riot is putting a lot of effort into making a large portion of their consumer base feel bad because they can't be 'masters' of any champions.

 

So yeah, Riot missed a golden opportunity to raise the toxicity levels in games and alienate casual players.  Instead they introduced a fun little thing for us to show off what champs we like to play most.

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May 9, 2015 3:53:48 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

PSA failing is why you use LSA or SVD right? If Riot was really determined they could easily train a neural net. 

One thing I did read was that less played rolls tend to get more points than more played roles since people good at support are more standard deviations out? But "anyone" can get two pentakills on Akali and thus deserves an A- (voyboy last night)

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May 9, 2015 2:01:08 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

PSA failing is why you use LSA or SVD right? If Riot was really determined they could easily train a neural net. 

One thing I did read was that less played rolls tend to get more points than more played roles since people good at support are more standard deviations out? But "anyone" can get two pentakills on Akali and thus deserves an A- (voyboy last night)

I'm not sure how useful LSA would be in this case, but yes, there are a lot of options available here.  I'm not suggesting that Riot is using the simple starting point of a PCA.

The problem that I was pointing out is that they want to create a metric that measures people's contribution to winning without changing people's gameplay (to the negative anyway).

So how do you differentiate correlation and causation?  That is, how do you differentiate between somebody who has good stats because they happen to be on the winning team, and somebody whose good stats happen to cause the team to win?  My guess was that this is very difficult - after all, we've all been in many games with bad players who happen to have good stats because of the team they are good (cleanup Master Yis, etc).  Having time resolution on your numbers would help (so that you could create time based statistics, which would likely help here), but throwing too many different stats into your analysis will make things more difficult.

The other big issue is how you also prevent degenerate behavior.  Riot just posted about this, but you want to prevent people from doing stupid stuff to just whore stats.

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May 9, 2015 6:47:00 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

WTF, FNC keeps solo killing Faker.  Clearly that guy sucks.

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May 9, 2015 7:23:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,

The other big issue is how you also prevent degenerate behavior.  Riot just posted about this, but you want to prevent people from doing stupid stuff to just whore stats.

posted what and where?  

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May 13, 2015 12:13:25 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

a few random things.  1 - I found MSI kind of fun.  Didn't watch all the games, but I enjoyed what I saw.  Really liked the goofy demacia vs nox or w/e match.  

Karl -you might be interested in this if you have not seen already.  Its a quick break down with specific hp stats showing the benefits of clearing the jungle camps in a specific order (eg attack big or small 1st).  I think most was just stuff we know, but seeing the actual numbers is useful.

also - trick2g is apparently an analyst for CLG now.  I think him being an analyst is quite stupid, but I imagine its beneficial for both him and CLG to pull in more views for stream revenue.  Trick has a decent understanding of the game from everything I've seen, but he doesn't lean towards team building strats.. he leans towards I have to carry strats... often with really dumb consequences.  I think he'd be useful at advising the jungle and advising split pushes... but I think it kind of ends there.. and stream revenue picks up immediately.  Not sure if anyone confirmed him on CLG yet, but reddit is abuzz.  

 

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May 13, 2015 12:28:44 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

also.. this

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May 13, 2015 8:53:02 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I wont be around tonight at all for games. Tuesday/Wed are officially dedicated to GRE study nights. I will most likely be adding a 3rd night in there as I feel 2 nights a week isn't sufficient time. It would be nice to get some team ranked games in later this week and hopefully we can beat a team better than a gold average solo queue strength.

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May 13, 2015 10:31:40 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

apparently the t2g thing is crap. 

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May 13, 2015 12:50:07 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

apparently the t2g thing is crap. 

"If you actually thought that he was going to become CLG's new analyst, I also have some immortality elixirs that I can sell you for the low, low price of $10,000."

- Some Funny Guy On Reddit

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May 13, 2015 4:05:34 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

yeah my in depth research mechanisms were not in place as I was busy confirming the illuminanti and nickleback connection.  I bet you didn't even look at the photograph.  Usually total nonsense doesn't get so far up on reddit - just mostly nonsense things. 

 

I did learn something quite interesting.  I listened to this podcast (kind of dry btw):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmSbggZK-pw

Riot Lyte shared some info about 1 thing in particular - placement matches (ex the games you play at the beginning of the season that put you into a tier (plat 1, gold 4, etc)).  He said that any dodge in the placement series is counted behind the scenes as a loss and impacts where you'd place - BUT, it does not count toward the 10 games you need to complete to get ranked.  So, dodging during placements is a very bad idea.  It's also a very good way, however, to tank your elo if that was something you are into as the placement matches have more weight than normal games. 

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May 13, 2015 7:43:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I kind of think ashes updated hawkshot is going to have some strong potential.  Probably very helpful to keep an eye on the jungler - and it grants vision as it passes everything.  If used to scout out jungler locations periodically, that could be something...

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