pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

By on June 6, 2014 4:53:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Update 5/5/2016 -Stream is back!

 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  http://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 

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December 21, 2015 4:39:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

so instead of the armor comment for enemy triple kill, how about 1 of these?

 

https://app.box.com/s/qb5vwdtog5qiecnmicna9bn7bpj3vkn0

and this is the one that actually tilted me from version 1

https://app.box.com/s/7m74cp3eqkncktzc2gnb1n7eai33nevh

 

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December 21, 2015 5:42:32 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

So, thoughts on optimal utilization? 

Probably waiting until The Rift Herald's base damage and starting level are weakened next patch before focusing on it too hard as an objective?

 

Quoting pacov,
 Now, I've been watching solo top renekton on current videos.  He typically gets the rift herald 1-2 times during the laning phase.

One thing that you should consider is that SoloRenektonOnly is a current Diamond I player and former Master Tier player and he isn't all that active on his main account right now.  So you might have been watching him play on a smurf account in low Diamond or possibly even high Plat.  In games where you have a Master Tier Top Lane Specialist One Trick Pony Smurf on your team, Rift Herald might be a viable objective more often than when we have you as our Top.  No offense.

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December 21, 2015 6:09:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

The best use for it is pushing down a tower. Hopefully you get top and perhaps rotate mid to demolish it but this can quickly be derailed by a team rallying around there mid laner. I think its just a way to quickly move your snowbally top laner out of top lane and to get him moving around the map sooner to make plays with his early game advantage. 

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December 21, 2015 6:10:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

"WHERE THE HELL IS THE TEAM" has my vote. 

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December 21, 2015 7:12:08 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

The best use for it is pushing down a tower. Hopefully you get top and perhaps rotate mid to demolish it but this can quickly be derailed by a team rallying around there mid laner. I think its just a way to quickly move your snowbally top laner out of top lane and to get him moving around the map sooner to make plays with his early game advantage. 

I think the problem though is the rotation/setup.  If I'm top lane and I get this, I'm probably basing unless we force the jungler to tank and knock him out of play.  You can't maximize the use imo with an enemy in the lane, or at least you can't lock down much dmg due to the constant push.  You just end up getting a little more ahead.  I think alternative strategy is needed.

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December 21, 2015 7:53:15 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ok I isolated a bunch from that - see for the audio clips.  Not sure about placement

 

https://app.box.com/s/l0clhsyl3kz0wivu5mfxqftpav0hezqe

 

 

And here's 1.4

v1.4 - includes the changes we discussed

https://app.box.com/s/jqj9i36xlnq87h5bu2rkg6gqwnnmfz9l

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December 21, 2015 11:36:49 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OK - so here's a point where you can have some more direct feedback if you like and actually change up the files I'll be using.  

I'll start with this.  This is a google sheet of the spreadsheet that shows the files I'm using.  It tells you the message that is played (ex 52 - first blood) and then the corresponding wav file.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uMXveC1MW3EniUXRPLoj31-mYycbrcPXTLf1NLD4_Wo/edit?usp=sharing

If that link doesn't work, I've also uploaded the excel file:  https://app.box.com/s/w08pn1cpzkpr2tlpt9ntwkexmkzhhg2v

 

 

OK. So...

tonight I ripped some additional audio but have not loaded it into the pack.  I added that to the source WAV files (note, the names of the files correspond DIRECTLY with what is listed in the google sheet/excel.  Then I uploaded all of those files.  ALL of the new files start with the word NEW.  So, download the WAVs and listen to the new ones.  Then look at the sheet and decide if you think any of those new files fit anywhere else.  I also included the unedited audio where karl and I are having a little fight and I drive him crazy.  That will likely get cut up a bit.

Anyway, here's a link to the audio clips.

https://app.box.com/s/m68759g0ugyj1x9qcpdl3lqy64v7etbx

 

An easy way to start is to just download the audio clips and quickly listen through the new ones.  If you hear something you think would be good to add, make a note of that and just mention it here.  If you want to take the next step, look at the spreadsheet and suggest a specific place for it (ex replace first blood message with No No.wav)

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December 22, 2015 11:28:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I won't be on until approximently Sunday night due to the holidays and traveling. I will try to take a look at the excel file and give you some recommendations for replacement/divesifying. I did get Peter to install the mod when it was version 1.3 and he had some good chuckles.

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December 22, 2015 11:28:52 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Diversifying*

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December 22, 2015 12:58:27 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

I did get Peter to install the mod when it was version 1.3 and he had some good chuckles.

ah good!  I was really hoping he'd take it all in the spirit of the thing (entertaining nonsense poking a little fun at quite a few of us).  Makes me smile thinking of peter laughing like a maniac in the voice pack and then laughing in front of his pc.  I spent WAY too much time on this and probably will spend a bit more.  Hope you enjoy the holidays!

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December 22, 2015 3:44:29 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Saw a higher elo fella (higher than mr solo only renek) post a different build setup for renek I'm going to give a go.  It's actually pretty similar to what I'm doing already, but its power spikes differ and he takes a ton of armor pen.  I'm not sure how effective it will be for me in my current elo, but I think it makes sense for where this guy is in challenger.  His whole thing alters the playing field vs many different champs.  

So, his early burst is set back due to no ad runes... AND he's squishier running scaling arm/mr.  So, you have to be very competent in your earlier trading so you can get that tiamat on 1st buy.  

Currently on renek, the build I use is tiamat, immediately into black cleaver.  Upgrade to ravenous hydra and then its all situational, but leans towards getting a deaths dance and immediately swapping to titanic hydra.  

This new build is tiamat, serrated dirk > ghost blade > black cleaver - the rest being situation, but along the same build path.  He also runs swift boots for some reason

His team fighting methodology is to destroy a carry.  Start with ult, build to 50 stacks if you don't have, ghostblade, flash w.  Depending on the setup, with swift boots/ghost blade, getting to the carry should be doable, but you obviously have to wait for an opening.  

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December 22, 2015 5:13:13 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,
He also runs swift boots for some reason

His team fighting methodology is to destroy a carry.

If you're talking about Romanium, then you answered your own question.  Swift Boots help the big gator stay on the carry due to the slow reduction.

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December 22, 2015 7:49:16 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

mayhaps I need some learnin.

So, aside from having a higher standard move speed with those boots, I'm trying to understand why it would be valued over the tenacity provided by merc treads.

 

I wonder if its over kill, needed to get to squishies on his build including ghostblade or what... ghostblade with merc gives a pretty decent boost in and of itself... and idk.. tenacity > gimping slow reduction?

 

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December 22, 2015 8:04:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Tenacity doesn't help against perma slows.  If you're being kited by an ADC like Ashe that can apply a frequent slow, your reduced duration means nothing and the extra speed plus reduced slow makes the Boots of Swiftness much much better.  If it's a single application slow, they're not much different from having Mercury Treads instead, but they're way better against sustained slows.

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December 22, 2015 9:02:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

mayhaps I need some learnin.

So, aside from having a higher standard move speed with those boots, I'm trying to understand why it would be valued over the tenacity provided by merc treads.

 

I wonder if its over kill, needed to get to squishies on his build including ghostblade or what... ghostblade with merc gives a pretty decent boost in and of itself... and idk.. tenacity > gimping slow reduction?

Yeah, I wouldn't know man.  My Full AD Renekton experiments after getting inpired by Romanium's Reddit AMA was a full on failure.

Best guesses as to why he does it:

- Your natural prey (marksmen) tend to have slows instead of roots/stuns for their CC.  Kalista, Kog, Graves, Ashe, MF, Varus, Jinx, Draven all slow.  The only ones that can actually hard CC you that I can think of right now are Varus, Ashe, and Vayne.  Also, Swift boots help you catch up to ADC's dashing away while Merc Tread's do not.

- Everyone used to use BotRK and Randuin's.  Every game, every time, every champ.  Not so much anymore but now everyone uses Spooky Ghosts so I guess it evens out?

- Romanium was under the impression that with the old Mastery would add to Swiftness' effectiveness but it actually works multiplicitively which is worse.  And apparently multiplicitively is not a real word.

- Swifty Booties have the highest base movement rate so they get multiplied reallly well by ghost blade.

Here's the AMA link in case you missed it:

 https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/3nhs6h/romaniums_master_guide_to_full_ad_renekton/

 

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December 22, 2015 9:53:14 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

ah - i think he did a new one today.  Not exactly sure where I saw it, but I saw it today and started watching vids.

 

Played just 1 teambuilder game, but was up against a high elo illoai person.  I pretty easily nabbed my 1st 2 kills.  I mostly needed to play at the same level as I was earlier as its a ballsy build.

I can see why someone maining that would consider this build if they are extremely experienced, but that's currently my take - the fall off is brutal if you dont keep rolling.  And keeping rolling in team builder is... an interesting thing.  The other build is safer and has easier power spikes to deal with.

Quite a bit comes down to me playing things right, though, as I think it also requires a slightly different playstyle.  I had a few opps where I should have rotated and tried to gank mid, but I did not.  I also need to figure out better when my passive windows are as I don't quite understand the spikes outside of the inital 2 buys atm

Giving it another go now.

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December 23, 2015 2:55:27 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,
I can see why someone maining that would consider this build if they are extremely experienced, but that's currently my take - the fall off is brutal if you dont keep rolling.

There's a high elo Wukong main that people always reference.  In his guide he advises to always keep up the pure AD build no matter how badly you're doing in lane. Don't ever give up and go tanky.

Unfortunately I don't see the same philosophy working with Rene.  Pure AD Rene either kills the enemy carries or he dies trying.  Wukong kills the enemy carries or he knocks the entire enemy team up while zoning their carry and then maybe troll clone sneaks away after providing an awesome initiation...

So yeah, if you can pull it off AD Rene and keep rolling great.  I never really could.  I just ended up as the win lane but couldn't convert that advantage into a win type Rene player that Hedgie was referencing before.

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December 23, 2015 8:55:44 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Thundercles,

There's a high elo Wukong main that people always reference.  In his guide he advises to always keep up the pure AD build no matter how badly you're doing in lane. Don't ever give up and go tanky.

Unfortunately I don't see the same philosophy working with Rene

Yeah - agreed.  At least wu still has a relatively safe flash or stealth engage, even with full AD.  

 

I actually completely get why he's run swift boots now, though.  It's almost entirely about increasing your ability to stick to folks and get to carries during a very short time window.  As you are squishy, you've really got to unload your combo quickly (and while you are alive) - and to do that, you have to get right up on em.

Anyway, same renekton experience for me in both games I played with the damage lean.  I do really well early/mid.  I'm not snowballing the game as much as I need to with that lead. I think things will even out for me/the team mid/early late.

I think a proper strat is to win lane early mid.  Get a kill to start and then tiamat on 1st back.  lane again, farm well and hopefully pick up another kill (def don't die).  After that, its most ideal to get rift herald then go to a diff lane at least briefly.

The more I think about it and experiment with the RH buff, I'm convinced you absolutely want to be in a lane with someone else the enemy top laner is about to return.  And as you can't necessarily count on your jungler to come help you push the wave (I tend to think its best to dbl team and either tower dive or put considerable pressure on the turret to maximize the buff), its probably best to go mid and push in with your mid - and if possible, rope your jungler in as well.  That also enables you to rotate to dragon immediately after and worst case you give up your top tower.  I really don't think solo pushing your lane with the buff is worth it.  You need to move very quickly with this build and stalling out means not such good things. 

Quoting Thundercles,

So yeah, if you can pull it off AD Rene and keep rolling great.  I never really could.  I just ended up as the win lane but couldn't convert that advantage into a win type Rene player that Hedgie was referencing before.

yah - I'm going to keep at it a bit and get some more reps in.  I'm still thinking that renek in this style is probably better the higher the elo where folks are all rotating properly and keyed into pushing/snowballing the game.

I watched a few very high elo replays yesterday from the league of graphs site.  These were not using either of the builds I've been using, but gave a very clear illustration of how to snowball properly with renek.

1 game had a nidalee jungle that kept ganking for renek and snowballed the crap out of his lane.  The enemy jungler focused on other lanes and kept control in other places, but top lane spun out of control. 20 + minutes in the team with the renek had managed to take 2 turrets top, but had made very little progress mid and bottom (both turrets were still up).  But the game completely rotated to top lane focus.  Bot lane stopped worrying about bot lane... didn't even send the adc to farm and get up to strength.  instead, they just blitzed things, dumped all their resources into winning via top lane.  Seemed really unique to me, but the team with renks jungle and mid rotated up to top quickly and put out rediculous pressure.  Then the bot lane rotated to mid/top.  Game ended at at like 21 minutes with folks completely abandoning other objectives in favor of putting the game away as quickly as possible.  

Also, in that game, the renek RARELY based.  He stayed out and the jungler just camped his lane until they'd get another kill or 2 - then he'd base.  Not saying camp renek is the correct call, but I did enjoy watching how things went.

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December 23, 2015 5:47:33 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I did some housekeeping on my Box.com site which may have broken some links.  

Nothing has changed (no need to redownload if you already are current).  Relinking stuff in case they are broken:

 

 

Last here's a link to the raw PDT files - includes wavs, etc:  https://app.box.com/s/k5h4tkt3p4tyivutnfstdvfgpv3fsx17

 

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December 24, 2015 9:28:22 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

That night where Peter tilted and started insulting Boaz and his children.  hue.  In fairness, I did warn Boaz not to suck as Lulu.  

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December 24, 2015 1:20:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

That night where Peter tilted and started insulting Boaz and his children.

Will you be putting that on the voice pack?

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December 24, 2015 2:37:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Naw - no audio on pete in teamspeaks.  

Anywho - Merry Christmas, folks.  Wishing you all the best.

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December 25, 2015 11:06:21 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So I'm all like hey, I want to learn how to do some ryze combos all proper like... I look up a few diamond 1 folks.  MUTHER FREAKING 5.3 gp/10, mpen, and armor for runes... 0/18/12.  the french toast are those runes...

 

edit -went with a normal ryze setup.  I suck w/ ryze and no longer interested

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December 26, 2015 8:20:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

onto zyra tonight - i hear she's an amazing jungler.  I'm running her as support, though.  Good results last night, tonight so so.  Most games I'm pretty solid - some a little off with the cc.

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