pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

By on June 6, 2014 4:53:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Update 5/5/2016 -Stream is back!

 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  http://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 

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December 19, 2015 8:04:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

52 files currently - link is to a zip with all the audio if anyone curious.  Audio files edited and normalized - just need to decide if any additional content is to be had and then decide what plays where.

 

https://app.box.com/s/l0clhsyl3kz0wivu5mfxqftpav0hezqe

 Here are the audio files names that my data needs to be match to.  For instance, if you think Piss Piss Sugar piss should be played in place of the alters will unlock in 30 seconds, you'd say set that to file0192.

file0001 - Welcome to the howling abyss
file0002 - Ace
file0003 - Ace
file0004 - Enemy doublekill
file0005 - Enemy doublekill
file0006 - Doublekill
file0007 - Doublekill
file0008 - Doublekill
file0009 - A champion has been slain
file0010 - A champion has been slain
file0011 - A champion has been slain
file0012 - An ally has been slain
file0013 - An ally has been slain
file0014 - An enemy has been slain
file0015 - An enemy has been slain
file0016 - An enemy has been slain
file0017 - You have been slain
file0018 - You have been slain
file0019 - Terminated
file0020 - Nuetralised
file0021 - Executed
file0022 - Executed
file0023 - Executed
file0024 - You have slain an enemy
file0025 - You have slain an enemy
file0026 - You have slain an enemy
file0027 - Enemy pentakill
file0028 - Enemy pentakill
file0029 - Pentakill
file0030 - Pentakill
file0031 - Enemy quadrakill
file0032 - Quadrakill
file0033 - Quadrakill
file0034 - Enemy triplekill
file0035 - Enemy triplekill
file0036 - Triplekill
file0037 - Triplekill
file0038 - Enemy legendary kill
file0039 - Legendary kill
file0040 - Legendary kill
file0041 - Your team has destroyed an inhibitor
file0042 - Your team has destroyed an inhibitor
file0043 - Your inhibitor has been destroyed
file0044 - Your inhibitor has been destroyed
file0045 - The enemy inhibitor has respawned
file0046 - The enemy inhibitor has respawned
file0047 - The enemies inhibitor is respawning soon
file0048 - The enemies inhibitor is respawning soon
file0049 - Your inhibitor is respawning soon
file0050 - Your inhibitor has respawned
file0051 - Defeat
file0052 - First blood
file0053 - Your inhibitor is under attack
file0054 - Shut down
file0055 - Shut down
file0056 - Enemy killing spree
file0057 - Enemy killing spree
file0058 - You are on a killing spree
file0059 - Killing spree
file0060 - Killing spree
file0061 - Enemy rampage
file0062 - You are on a rampage
file0063 - You are on a rampage
file0064 - Rampage
file0065 - Rampage
file0066 - An enemy is unstoppable
file0067 - An enemy is umstoppable
file0068 - You are unstoppable
file0069 - You are unstoppable
file0070 - Unstoppable
file0071 - An enemy is dominating
file0072 - You are dominating
file0073 - Dominating
file0074 - An enemy is godlike
file0075 - An enemy is godlike
file0076 - You are godlike
file0077 - You are godlike
file0078 - Godlike
file0079 - Godlike
file0080 - An enemy is legendary
file0081 - An enemy is legendary
file0082 - You are legendary
file0083 - You are legendary
file0084 - Legendary
file0085 - Legendary
file0086 - Legendary
file0087 - A summoner has quit
file0088 - A summoner has quit
file0089 - An enemy has quit
file0090 - An ally has quit
file0091 - An ally has quit
file0092 - Minions have spawned
file0093 - Your nexus is under attack
file0094 - 1 minute until minions spawn
file0095 - 1 minute until minions spawn
file0096 - A summoner has disconnected
file0097 - An enemy has left the game
file0098 - An enemy has disconnected
file0099 - An enemy has disconnected
file0100 - An ally has left the game
file0101 - An ally has left the game
file0102 - An ally has disconnected
file0103 - An ally has disconnected
file0104 - A summoner has reconnected
file0105 - A summoner has reconnected
file0106 - An enemy has reconnected
file0107 - An enemy has reconnected
file0108 - An ally has reconnected
file0109 - 30 seconed until minions spawn
file0110 - Your turret is under attack
file0111 - Your team has destroyed a turret
file0112 - Your turret has been destroyed
file0113 - Your turret has been destroyed
file0114 - Victory
file0115 - Welcome
file0116 - Welcome
file0117 - Welcome to summoners rift
file0118 - Welcome to summoners rift
file0119 - Welcome to the league of legends
file0120 - Welcome to the league of legends
file0121 - Welcome to the twisted treeline
file0122 - Welcome to the twisted treeline
file0123 - The enemy has scored a point
file0124 - You have scored a point
file0125 - Your team has scored a point
file0126 - Welcome to the snowdown showdown
file0127 - The enemy has almost won
file0128 - You have almost won
file0129 - Your team has almost won
file0130 - Welcome to the crystal scar
file0131 - Welcome to the crystal scar
file0132 - The battle will begin in 30 seconds
file0133 - The battle has begun
file0134 - Blue team has scored an ace
file0135 - Purple team has scored an ace
file0136 - Red team has scored an ace
file0137 - Blue team doublekill
file0138 - Purple team doublekill
file0139 - Red team doublekill
file0140 - Blue team pentakill
file0141 - Purple team pentakill
file0142 - Red team pentakill
file0143 - Blue team quadrakill
file0144 - Purple team quadrakill
file0145 - Red team quadrakill
file0146 - Blue team triplekill
file0147 - Purple team triplekill
file0148 - Red team triplekill
file0149 - Blue team legendary kill
file0150 - Purple team legendary kill
file0151 - Red team legendary kill
file0152 - Blue team's inhibitor has been destroyed
file0153 - Purple team's inhibitor has been destroyed
file0154 - Red team's inhibitor has been destroyed
file0155 - Blue team's inhibitor has respawned
file0156 - Purple team's inhibitor has respawned
file0157 - Red team's inhibitor has respawned
file0158 - Blue team's inhibitor is respawning soon
file0159 - Purple team's inhibitor is respawning soon
file0160 - Red team's inhibitor is respawning soon
file0161 - Blue team's inhibitor is under attack
file0162 - Purple team's inhibitor is under attack
file0163 - Red team's inhibitor is under attack
file0164 - Blue team has slain the dragon
file0165 - Purple team has slain the dragon
file0166 - Red tram has slain the dragon
file0167 - Blue team has slain baron nashor
file0168 - Purple team has slain baron nashor
file0169 - Red team has slain baron nashor
file0170 - Blue team is nearly out of minions
file0171 - Red team is nearly out of minions
file0172 - Blue team has lost half it's minions
file0173 - Red team has lost half it's minions
file0174 - Blue team's nexus is under attack
file0175 - Purple team's nexus is under attack
file0176 - Red team's nexus is under attack
file0177 - Blue team has surrendered
file0178 - Purple team has surrendered
file0179 - Red team has surrendered
file0180 - Blue team's turret is nearly destroyed
file0181 - Red team's turret is neary destroyed
file0182 - Blue team's turret has been destroyed
file0183 - Purple team's turret has been destroyed
file0184 - Red team's turret has been destroyed
file0185 - Red team's turret is at half health
file0186 - Blue team's turret is under attack
file0187 - Purple team's turret is under attack
file0188 - Red team's turret is under attack
file0189 - Blue team victory
file0190 - Purple team victory
file0191 - Red team victory
file0192 - The altars will unlock in 30 seconds
file0193 - The altars have unlocked
file0194 - Welcome to the murder bridge

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December 19, 2015 8:35:31 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Actually, here are the only files out of that list that I need to change.  So, I just need to assign my recordings to each one of these:

2, 3 - Ace
4, 5 - Enemy doublekill
6, 7, 8 - Doublekill
12, 13 - An ally has been slain
14, 15, 16 - An enemy has been slain
17, 18 - You have been slain
21, 22, 23 - Executed
24, 25, 26 - You have slain an enemy
27, 28 - Enemy pentakill
29, 30 - Pentakill
31 - Enemy quadrakill
32, 33 - Quadrakill
34, 35 - Enemy triplekill
36, 37 - Triplekill
41, 42 - Your team has destroyed an inhibitor
43, 44 - Your inhibitor has been destroyed
45, 46 - The enemy inhibitor has respawned
47, 48 - The enemies inhibitor is respawning soon
49 - Your inhibitor is respawning soon
50 - Your inhibitor has respawned
51 - Defeat
52 - First blood
54, 55 - Shut down
56, 57 - Enemy killing spree
59, 60 - Killing spree
61 - Enemy rampage
64, 65 - Rampage
66, 67 - An enemy is unstoppable
70 - Unstoppable
71 - An enemy is dominating
73 - Dominating
74, 75 - An enemy is godlike
78, 79 - Godlike
80, 81 - An enemy is legendary
84, 85, 86 - Legendary
92 - Minions have spawned
96 - A summoner has disconnected
104, 105 - A summoner has reconnected
109 - 30 seconds until minions spawn
111 - Your team has destroyed a turret
112, 113 - Your turret has been destroyed
114 - Victory
117, 118 - Welcome to summoners rift

 

And here are some of my thoughts on grouping atm


minion spawn -
somebodies gonna die
sugar piss
whats goin on here who is bottom


my files referring to dying -
arg I can't kill him
brad -aw yah mad
brad - don't worry i distrracted them
brad - mocking laugh
brad - my team looks like fuckin retards
brad - youre too pro pacov
GD I didn't know he was there
How's he level 7 this guy s a jungle for god sake
let em have top lane
man ur an idiot
Pacov - can we ward
pacov - i feel like you've done that move in better places in the past
pacov - why would you go in there?
pacov - yah got me
there was nothing i could do
this is an armor game im going to go armor
where the hell is the team he's chasing me


files for us getting kills
brad - way to go pacov

game opener
smile your on peterdumptruck camera w or w/o laugh
sugar piss

random noises
Arggh
Chug Chug
Come on
Gibberish Pete
No No
pacov - mocking laugh
petersjoke
thunk


dragon/baron/tower kill
ArgIseeThat
brad - way to go pacov
brad - youre too pro pacov
I want the money yeah baby
i want the money
maniacal loud laughter
Pacov - can we ward
pacov- yay they got it
there was nothing i could do
you cant do antyiung to me man

no idea
bandumptrucks
ban dumptrucks solo line
pacov and brad - you gotta turn the poison on

game ended
brad - mocking laugh
brad - way to go pacov
brad - youre too pro pacov
karl - what are these guys doing we had the game right there
pacov - mocking laugh

inhib lost
karl - what are these guys doing we had the game right there
let em have top lane'
pacov - mocking laugh
brad - peter please
there was nothing i could do


enemy team aces
karl and pacov - bad engage after bad engage
Pacov - can we ward
pacov - i feel like you've done that move in better places in the past
brad - peter please
prices is right

enemy dbl kill
-jack peter thoguht tower diving was a good idea
who the fug is this guy
you guys couldnt kil hium

shutdown
-jack peter thoguht tower diving was a good idea

enemy triple kill
karl and pacov - can u guys not start 3v5 fights
pacov - i feel like you've done that move in better places in the past
Triple kill
when you stuck your arms out

quad kill
pacov - why would you go in there?
brad - peter please

penta kill
synn - im like a boss

kill in ourfavor
you cant do antyiung to me man

 

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December 19, 2015 9:49:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

OK - version 1 of the PDT audio pack is done.  Could use some tweaks.  Check it out and provide some feedback if you like.  Happy to add audio, but you might need to provide it for me. 

https://app.box.com/s/wczeyapu0ecqhyresw3m3m6j84d95gdg

 

Download the zip and dump it here:  

C:\Riot Games\League of Legends\RADS\projects\lol_game_client_en_us\managedfiles\0.0.1.20\DATA\Sounds\Wwise\VO\en_US\Shared

 

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December 19, 2015 11:20:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

karl yells at you if the enemy team aces you in the mod

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December 20, 2015 1:07:47 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So, I've been playing games with the mod all night.  Got Boaz to give it a go as well (he dug it and laughed off his ass the 1st game anyway).  I also bumped into pete and gave him the run and all the info he'd need to check it out.  Here's my initial feedback.  If you give it a go, please do the same.  Looking for maybe change this, or sound volume not good, or too much of this, etc.

 

So, for me the audio levels felt fine and pretty even.  Some of it was pretty funny and not annoying.  the game starts, you hear pete singing about sugar piss.  Just as creeps spawn, he asks who is playing bot lane and eventually discovers its me, playing ali.  Was a funny moment where pete somehow didn't know I was bot lane, though I was standing in lane.

Anyway, 1st blood is kind of funny.  Discover that.  If our team gets a penta kill, its very funny - we'll leave that as a surprise.  It actually plays pretty well and is entertaining early-mid/late.  Late/super late, it will likely tilt you depending on how the game is going.  I think I have it set where I laugh maniacally when we lose inhibitors.  Every inhib loss I taunt ya.  If our team gets aced, karl assaults you.  I have a few rants in there.  If alot of actions happens at the same time, it can be a little overwhelming, so I need to maybe figure out how to soften that up.  

Its a chaotic space though with league pacing and shutdowns on 2 kills.  For example, if you kill someone and its a shutdown, audio played.  Then if you just got 3 kills, theres an audio played... and if you got shutdown right after that, audio... etc.  There's a CLUSTER of events that can happen at the same time and it results in spammed chaos OMFGBBQ.   Anyway, it feels a bit overhelming to me late game, but I'm not exactly sure on how to clean that up yet.  

There is a little more repetition than I'd like in a few speaks, but I haven't iso'd them yet.

Last, I'm still quite open to making changes and suggestions (like cow put out there) - but here's the trick.  I don't have all the audio, so I need it.  I've gone through 100% of all my youtube vid shorts and that's where all of this content comes from.  So, any other speak would needs to be recorded by you fellas perhaps. 

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December 20, 2015 3:28:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

v1.1

Shorted a few lines up and made a few changes

https://app.box.com/s/7sfx53pebkqmfv2eyuj4bmfdmg7lc5si

 

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December 20, 2015 4:00:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

getting closer to decent.  1.1 plays out.  Its a lot more positive and less annoying, but pete taunts everyone a bit too hard when they die.  

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December 20, 2015 7:24:58 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It is pretty entertaining so far but I would like a little more diversity in tower deaths. I just had a game versus an Azir so I heard a lot of CHUG CHUG's from peter. Is there a way to mix up what noise would play for tower kills? I would also like a more diverse group of people saying things. My team stomped pretty hard so pretty much everything I heard was Brad's sinister laugh. We did manage to get a quad and I love the progression from brad's laugh to peters laugh to peter's TRIPLE KILL. Pretty good stuff maybe we could play a few games tonight or whenever with more people and see if we can get some good lines tonight. 

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December 20, 2015 8:03:45 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

You can't control the message for towers - its just 1 thing for all towers on SR.  

I'm still down with spicing up the voice talent, but again - I need recordings.  Get me something and I can make it work most likely.  

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December 20, 2015 8:11:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

v1.3 https://app.box.com/s/hsr605xstlyq0dnhyjzt2sfxzqvjardm

Changed defeat message to me n karl fighting

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December 21, 2015 2:09:53 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Cant really hear much of the victory/defeat sounds, the sound of the nexus collapsing makes them pretty hard to hear.

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December 21, 2015 8:28:08 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I'd like a few changes. A new line for the enemy inhibitor falling would be nice. Also a new like to replace the enemy triple kill I think.  Currently it is "this is an armor game, I am going to build armor" from Peter. I think something along the lines of karls "what are they doing we would of won the game right there" or brads "my team is a bunch of fucking retards" would be better.

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December 21, 2015 9:03:26 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Thanks for the feedback, fellas!

Quoting OMG_Shiro,

Cant really hear much of the victory/defeat sounds, the sound of the nexus collapsing makes them pretty hard to hear.

I noticed this yesterday too and I thought of 2 potential solutions.  1 - I can just insert like 4-5 seconds of silence in the audio in the win/loss audio.  That way it would play after the nexus explosion.  2 - I could get the precise timing of the nexus explosion effect and then boost the audio during that window.  That's probably a shite solution though, so I'm leaning towards #1.  I'll probably knock that change out today after work as I expect it should be pretty quick to make an update.  

FYI - at this point, replacing an audio file takes about 5 minutes for me.  It's kind of an involved process but a fairly simple one once you figure it out.  You start with WAV files (I use audacity to create the WAVS (output as WAV)).  Then, using a spreadsheet I'm maintaining for the PDT pack, I track the file number of the change (audio files are all stored as file00001, file00002, etc) and rename my WAV file to that.  Once that's done, I have to convert the WAV to a WEM file.  Last I open the PDT pack as a WPK and update the file number in that back to the corresponding WEM file.  A bunch of little things that need done and its all kind of by hand in its current iteration.  If I was planning on doing this sort of thing frequently (eg multiple voice packs as opposed to dicking around with this PDT thing), I'd write something a bit more proper that streamlined the entire process.

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

I'd like a few changes. A new line for the enemy inhibitor falling would be nice. Also a new like to replace the enemy triple kill I think.  Currently it is "this is an armor game, I am going to build armor" from Peter. I think something along the lines of karls "what are they doing we would of won the game right there" or brads "my team is a bunch of fucking retards" would be better.

Thanks again for the feedback.  Any thoughts on an alternate "this is an armor game" location?  Or you think that's worth dropping entirely.  Maybe I'll upload the spreadsheet after work so you guys can see exactly what is being used where.  For instance, that armor game line is used exactly once.  Replacing that with either of the references you mentioned will result in those lines being doubled up.  I'm not that opposed, but saturation of lines could be a bit much.  I guess I'll upload that spreadsheet later and we can take a look.

I did upload all of the wav files I'm using, though.  You can download that and listen through them pretty quickly if you want to suggest a specific replacement for the enemy inhib falling bit.  

https://app.box.com/s/l0clhsyl3kz0wivu5mfxqftpav0hezqe

 

Other stuff I'm interested in a bit, but haven't really researched.  There's no announcement file that corresponds to the drake, rift herald, or baron... that I know of anyway.  I believe that stuff is all related to sound effect files.  So, its possible I could isolate those with a little research (don't think it would be super difficult), but the end result would be a few other files that folks would have to load when they install.  Which, in its current iteration, would be a little more cumbersome.  I might have to create a proper installer if I go that route and that's more sunk time (installers aren't that big a deal to setup tho)... but then you have an executable which makes people nervous from time to time.  

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December 21, 2015 9:59:42 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I would replace the armor line with a new one entirely. Something that hasn't been used yet. I am not the biggest fan of repeats. I would prefer something very belittling though

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December 21, 2015 10:54:11 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

OK - I'll look into that and see if I have something a bit more biting for enemy triple kills that hasn't been used.  

My victory message is kind of stupid.  You can't really hear it, but its literally pete talking absolute gibberish for no discernible reason.  Might want to change that.  You are in for a retarded treat if you get a pentakill, btw.  

Current to-dos

  • victory/defeat messages - add dead air 4-5 sec after timing out so audio is audible
  • drop armor line - replace with something particularly stinging

This fing announcer pack triggered me last night... I'm not joking about that version 1 I released.  It was tilt bait.  I had it even mocking folks if they did things right.  And towards late game it was like nonstop bitching.  Too much...

 

RIFT HERALD DISCUSSION

OK - so I was a bit a dick about rift herald last night.  Not cool.  My bad.  Etc.  

Anyway, perhaps we can have a discussion about it.  Karl and I seem to have a very different opinion on its worth and strategic value.  A few things that stood out during our discussion was that karl says he never sees high elo people take it and I said that I always see high elo folks take it.  Now, I've been watching solo top renekton on current videos.  He typically gets the rift herald 1-2 times during the laning phase.  In whatever high elo games karl watches, he doesn't see that happening.  Which does make perfect sense, as not everyone is on the same page - its preseason, its new, etc.

So, quick recap on what's required to take it and what it provides - then we can perhaps talk strategic importance.  I'm not necessarily right in the value I place on it in the same way as other folks might not be spot on - so I think its a good discussion topic.

OK - so it spawns at 4 minutes and respawns every 5 minutes.  It despawns at 19:55 if its in combat or 19:45 if it not.  The maximum, though unrealistic number of rotations would be 3 (eg you could get rift herald buff 3 times before its taken off the map).  

Rift herald can be taken fairly easily with 2 people, though 1 will likely have their health bar tanked a bit.  If 1 person stands in front and 1 behind, you can instantly do 15% of the rift heralds max health every 3 seconds.  It does not matter who lands the killing blow as of this patch.  This means junglers can smite to secure if needed.  A buff is dropped on the ground that anyone on your team (and only your team) can pick up.  1 person if fed or with proper itemization/champ can solo rift herald.  Rift herald takes 35% reduced damage from ranged auto attacks.

Here's what you get by killing rift herald:  200 XP, 50 gold to all players on the team (250 gold total).  

Here's what you get from the buff:  the player that picks it up has empowered recall (its the baron recall speed), 10% damage increase +40 move speed.  Minons receive 40% increased attack speed, canon minions get +100 attack range.  The buff lasts 2 minutes or 2:18 if you have the jungle buff.

More on this from me in a bit. Any initial thoughts?

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December 21, 2015 11:09:39 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

It's a strong buff for champions with a good early game like renekton and should be valued more when we are playing with champions like renekton. That being said it is also a very dangerous buff to take since it does a lot of damage. It should only be taken when the top lanes or mid lane are dead and we know where the enemy jungles is. It is also an easy take when the enemy top lane teleported bottom and our jungles is on the top side and can take it with the top laner. The mid laner and top laner should never try to do it together since it hurts map pressure severely and you lose out on CS. I don't remember any circumstances last night but we had a Renekton. In terms of chances to get it I couldn't really tell since me and ryzukaaa or whatever his name is where getting sat on and my full attention was bot.

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December 21, 2015 12:10:09 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

It's a strong buff for champions with a good early game like renekton and should be valued more when we are playing with champions like renekton. That being said it is also a very dangerous buff to take since it does a lot of damage.

Spot on Cow, you know your shit.  Trying to get the buff isn't worth getting double killed in the Baron Pit... but having a Rift Herald dance party?  That's another story!  "Koral!  Come help me make the Rift Herald dance!"  Having your champ dance near the Herald makes him dance too just in case someone else doesn't know.

Riot quote:  "Secondly, the risk vs reward of the objective feels a bit off atm. We're reducing the risk again next patch by weakening his attacks a bit especially as he scales around the 15-20 mark where he feels substantially more threatening than Dragon."

 

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December 21, 2015 1:09:54 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I'm finding that most games it is uncontested and not valued as a warding target.  I can think of maybe 1 game where there was any sort of contesting rift herald.  Personal experience though and I'm not exactly spamming renek nonstop, so to be taken with a grain of salt.  You can, however, make note of how often your/their jungler is securing scuttle there.  I think you'll find that it is consistently unwarded though and top laner can usually tell you if top is warded and they might see you (the top laner) roaming down to get it.  Typically I go for it early/mid after I've bullied the top laner and/or pushed a wave.  I really think its worth noting how easy it is to take with 2 people, though.  If done right, the top lane tanks a ton of the damage, grabs the buff, does the fast recall which would free the jungler up to gank or continue his route.  I think its pretty important to try out things though, 2 people killing it goes pretty quick.  

I think though, that something very negative and important happens when you do take rift herald, though.  More often than not, securing rift herald often results in the enemy team attempting to rush baron dragon as they instantly have knowledge of the junglers location.  

Rift herald is wasted if you die quickly after getting it, ofc.  And it feels like a buff that you should be using to aggressively push.  I mean, your wave will autopush due to the increased AS on creeps.  

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December 21, 2015 1:24:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Is the Korean shoutcaster pentakill? or does it have to do with peter 'helping' my ezreal pentakill LOL.

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December 21, 2015 1:30:04 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

The mid laner and top laner should never try to do it together since it hurts map pressure severely and you lose out on CS

Think I agree on that.  Jungler required unless you are gigantic or have figured out a few champs that can solo him.  

I guess another thing - has everyone here killed rift herald at various times?  It helps to have a very realistic understand of the DPS output at various times.  I've done it with renek and a jungler as early as 6 or 7 minutes in.  At that point, yeah, it sure can be risky.  You both can get quite low and imo its very risky unless you are fully aware of folks locations.  Typically at that point, you are, though (you'd only call for it if your jungler is nearby and you just wiped the top laner, you see mid in lane, etc).  Folks aren't currently keyed in to even consider the enemy is taking rift at 6 or 7 minutes.  Anyway, super high risk there imo.

BUT - its a very different story 10 minutes in as you and your jungler will have a few items - and both tanky or DPS items are extremely useful here.  More dps to kill him fast - more tankiness and you are soaking and still procing the eye for 15% max health damage.  It actually feels very safe to me at that point with renekton anyway and if you can trade off tanking, good.  I really think folks should try it out around the 10 minute mark to get the feel for it though.  

Anyway, so, you lose dragon pressure - so its kind of smeh for that.  You gain map pressure while should be drawing the enemy jungler top to try to slow or stop your push - which helps the other side of the map.  

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December 21, 2015 1:32:04 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting OMG_Shiro,

Is the Korean shoutcaster pentakill? or does it have to do with peter 'helping' my ezreal pentakill LOL.

Nope - I did consider the korean caster yelling about penta kill.  What I picked is better and much more stupid

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December 21, 2015 1:33:49 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting OMG_ZEX,

It's a strong buff for champions with a good early game like renekton and should be valued more when we are playing with champions like renekton. That being said it is also a very dangerous buff to take since it does a lot of damage. It should only be taken when the top lanes or mid lane are dead and we know where the enemy jungles is.

Exactly.  The problem is that it does a TON of damage, so if you get caught on it, lots of people are dying.  Last night, there were constant calls to do it when their mid and top were BOTH alive (although pushed) and we didn't know where their jungler was either (although we suspected bot).  Now, we might think that it wasn't warded from a statistical perspective, but if we are wrong (or if they saw us going to it from a lane ward), they get multiple kills AND the buff.  Which is probably a game losing play.  If we are right, well, we basically don't get a whole lot.

The problem was that although the buff is pretty good on Renekton, Sion is actually really good at defending against it.  So we weren't getting towers when we got it.  And if you don't get towers when you get the buff, its really a net loss.

You can't justify the buff with "it gives you gold!" because you can get more gold from just farming and not wasting time on it.  And somebody is always going to have to go back after the buff unless they are Nunu or something from tanking it, wasting a lot of time.  So no towers down from the buff is a net loss on the team.  We lost A LOT from taking the first RH buff.  I lost gold/xp, and they got a free (trademark) dragon when they heard it go down, but we didn't get a tower from the buff.

It's just not a good objective in most games right now, which is why it isn't emphasized in competitive play that I've seen, and is definitely not emphasized in high ELO play.

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December 21, 2015 1:42:27 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,

free (trademark) dragon

dont mess with my trademarks.

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December 21, 2015 2:42:27 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

With the Sion example - yah, he was able to stop slow my push pretty easily as full tank.  

Let's talk what would proper utilization be then. So, I think its primarily useful for 1 thing - killing turrets (or at least heavy push power followed by roaming).  Its strategic volume goes WAY up if the top laner has TP.  This would enable a quick recall + TP anywhere if there is a good opportunity for a push at any location including to a creep that is currently tanking a turret.  

It's secondary usage would be roaming and pushing then.  Faster movement speed and that faster recall gets you somewhere else quick.  

3rd usage, and the weakest imo, is in using that added damage for a kill in top lane.  10% dmg buff is very nice, ofc - super nice.  BUT - combined with the minions auto pushing now, you can't control the wave.  Which means you get 1 rotation, then the wave pushes.  You can bounce it back, but you are in an auto push for about 1 min 45 sec.  On renekton, that REALLY lowers his kill potential unless you've already stomped the crap out of the top laner.  

I think its a buff that would be best used in tandem.  But that also can prove a little difficult as either the top laner or the jungler will probably need to recall.  

Maybe you could do it so the top laner tanks it big time leaving the jungler healthy.  Give the buff to the jungler, but the jungler then needs to insta gank a lane, help push a lane, or tower dive with one other person.... probably mid.  

We could also have the jungler tank, take the buff, base, then go wherever the jungler wants to go (maybe pick up 1 camp max), then gank a lane.

The timing rules you mention when its "safe" to take the buff potentially add to the problem.  If the enemy top laner must be dead to take it, then they will be back whenever you are with a full health bar - and that leads to either I have to be able to quickly bully and kill or nearly kill them followed by a push, or something.

 

So, thoughts on optimal utilization? 

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