The Forums Are Now Closed!

The content will remain as a historical reference, thank you.

What do you like LEAST about Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes?

By on April 21, 2014 11:43:13 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1312

We had a great discussion about what features of LH players liked the most.

Now, let’s turn it on its head.  What parts of Legendary Heroes do you like the least?

This doesn’t have to be a feature list either, it could be elements of the game (or parts of the game) that you just find boring or frustrating or poorly thought out.

Let us know!

Locked Post 156 Replies +1
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 4:19:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If I had ONE problem with the game, and only ONE:

- The square grid.

 

Please get with the times and move to hexes

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 5:24:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My main problem:

- The bugs and glitches. It really hurts immersion if borders do not update or spells/abilities don't work as described.

Other issues:

- City building has almost no impact. I love city building, but apart from the Research produced, most other variables don't matter much.

- Movement is a Pita. You often lose movement because of how stacks work and by midgame, all roads are blocked by 'friendly' units. Pathfinding still does not work.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 5:54:35 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Sanati,
First I'm not a huge fan of custom units, but it can be enjoyable if done right. It's not in this game. There aren't enough options, it doesn't feel like building a custom unit, it's just taking a generic unit and putting the best gear on it.

 

This I agree with a lot, this has slightly improved over time with the abilities giving you some way to really customise your unit but it is pretty much choose the best gear more unit customisation options would be better. But that is only because I love the idea so much.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 7:03:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting econundrum1,
This I agree with a lot, this has slightly improved over time with the abilities giving you some way to really customise your unit but it is pretty much choose the best gear more unit customisation options would be better. But that is only because I love the idea so much.

Even with the weapon abilities it basically boils down to slightly different ways to do damage. It's like lasers or phasers in a space 4x, one might be flat damage, once might pierce armor a little, whatever, it's still the tiniest fraction of ship customization in the games that do it right.

I guess to be constructive I'll expand on what I think is wrong exactly. For starters, customization is so interesting and works so well in the space games because most of the options take up the same space, putting one thing on a ship means less room for everything else. You can make a heavily armored ship, but it will be slow and won't do much damage. In Elemental, you put the best armor, the best weapon, and a mount, on almost every unit. The only reason not to is if you want to quickly mass produce something cheaper. There is (or was, I don't even remember right now, it keeps changing) some small drawback for using heavier armor, but it's not balanced in a way that matters, it's always better to have the strongest armor. There could be some sort of training cost limit that goes up with tech levels, similar to how weight used to work but just a hard cap instead of penalties, IE if you want to use the best armor you have to give up a mount and use a cheap weapon.

Second, there's virtually no utility options. The equivalent of support ships, like ammo supply ships, repair ships, shield boosting ships, carriers, etc. We could have units designed to do nothing but heal or buff other units in their stack, summon other units, or even units that could field train more units anywhere on the map. But then you should be able to make hybrids, units that can attack and buff, or moderately armored healers, but not as well as units designed just for those roles. There's a few dinky traits in the game, like shield wall, and there might be one that increases stack regen unless that was removed, but they don't even come close.

I can't tell you how much time I've spent just designing ships/stations in games like Star Ruler or StarDrive, ships that do exactly what I want, ships that seem like genius designs on my part (but probably aren't). That's what a custom unit system should be. Otherwise don't bother, and it looks like they are just ditching it for the next Elemental game so I guess that's for the best.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 7:45:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Aaah... yess... right on the money, that one.

 

It seems we miss a bunch of traits and gear in the unit department. I'm thinking about a trait to use anything other than say a spear ( two handed, mind you), and specialization traits to improve damage for a chosen weapon. Thus, for a heavy armor guy, you'd end up with Plate Mail trait, Sworduse trait and maybe even Shielduse trait. Is that  better than a leather armor Sworduse, Fast and Bloodthirsty? They're quicker and do more damage once you're bleeding.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 10:14:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Changes I'd like to see:

1- In a game with 6 AI players (on Large or Huge map), the AI is too passive.
  - the AI makes threats, but rarely makes an attack
  - AI is too passive; it is mostly the human player who has to initiate war
  - may be different with a 2-player game vs a 7-player game
 
2- end game not challenging
  - once you get a lead, the AI factions realizes that you are too powerful to challenge
  - the remaining AI factions don't team up against stronger player to bring them down
    - aligned factions could align against player of a different faction
  - it becomes easy as a player to pick them off one by one at your leisure
    
3- tech tree is pretty much the same for all factions
  - most games, it is possible to research pretty much everything..
  - a larger tree, where it not possible to research more than 1/2 the tree would make decisions meaningful,   
    and add more replay value
 
4- More faction-specific buildings?
  - one faction-specific building at each level (1 through 5) would make things different
  - buildings are too similar now
 
5- end-game quests always the same
  - can these be more random / randomized?
  - or have a larger set where some aren't always present?
  - the end game is too predictable once you've done the quests
 
6- if playing a Large map with many opponents, conquering every city becomes a hassle
  - if you defeat opponents, and don't want to raze their cities, the unrest gets out of hand (esp on a large map)...
    ...and there is not much to do about it.  It is hard to build an empire on a large map
  - Can a different mechanism be used to model unrest?  
  - More options to control unrest?
 
7- fire magic seems to be stronger than other types
  - I find myself recruiting fire mages, getting fireball, and then winning tactical battles easily
  - can other magic types be given more battlefield oomph?  more spells?
 
 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 10:30:52 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Played a game last night (had to quit when I realized it was 2am ).  I was quickly reminded about a UI feature that always bugged me: City level ups disable the ability to do anything until you choose the upgrade.  This is especially bad late in the game when you have a dozen or more cities, half of which are conquered cities.  I would like to be able to see the city in question, but the pop-ups cover the city and much of the surrounding terrain.

This also happens when you defeat a Wildlands boss and you need to choose which city gets the upgrade.  You're given a list of city names, all of which look like they are based on either Aztec or Kthulu lore.  This would work better if it unlocked a "one per faction" building, then I could go to the city I want and build it.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 12:01:10 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Sanati,
I guess to be constructive I'll expand on what I think is wrong exactly. For starters, customization is so interesting and works so well in the space games because most of the options take up the same space, putting one thing on a ship means less room for everything else. You can make a heavily armored ship, but it will be slow and won't do much damage. In Elemental, you put the best armor, the best weapon, and a mount, on almost every unit. The only reason not to is if you want to quickly mass produce something cheaper. There is (or was, I don't even remember right now, it keeps changing) some small drawback for using heavier armor, but it's not balanced in a way that matters, it's always better to have the strongest armor. There could be some sort of training cost limit that goes up with tech levels, similar to how weight used to work but just a hard cap instead of penalties, IE if you want to use the best armor you have to give up a mount and use a cheap weapon.

 

I see what you mean here, the unit needed to take the "Chain Mail" or "Plate Mail" traits to use those armours although to be fair that does mean you have to use a trait slot for this.

I was actually thinking the traits and some of the unique traits they added for certain races like the wraiths made it more interesting, but visually units can end up looking very similar with all the same armour and weapons as you say.

I agree though very strongly with what you say about them needing to balance things better so that you have to make more choices here and those design more meaningfuly different units.

I also agree adding more buff/debuff and other special abilities that maybe also limit what equipment they can use would be good.

I still enjoy making custom units but it's not really reaching it's full potential at the moment.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 12:26:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Initiative system (the way it's implemented) and some of the alternate victories.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 12:40:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

N/A

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 1:03:07 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Dadou,

If I had ONE problem with the game, and only ONE:

- The square grid.

 

Please get with the times and move to hexes

 

Where as I have the opposite problem. I like square grids and have a lot of trouble playing Hex based games. I'm actually finding it quite frustrating in the Gal Civ III Alpha having my ships snaking everywhere, instead of travelling in straight lines.

 

As for Legendary Heroes, haven't played in a while but what I'd really like is the ability to create custom blood/racial traits in game, without having to go through and edit text files. Or at least be able to copy an existing racial and give it a new name/icon, as it's a bit immersion breaking when your carefully created new race who have no connection to Gilden still says Ironeer Blood or whatever.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 1:12:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Earth Force Captain,



Quoting Dadou,
reply 51

If I had ONE problem with the game, and only ONE:

- The square grid.

 

Please get with the times and move to hexes


 

Where as I have the opposite problem. I like square grids and have a lot of trouble playing Hex based games. I'm actually finding it quite frustrating in the Gal Civ III Alpha having my ships snaking everywhere, instead of travelling in straight lines.

I too am not a fan of the hex-grid. One of the many reasons I dropped Civ 5 and went back to Civ 4.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 1:23:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm a fan of no grid of any type whatsoever!  On a strategic map, it can be a necessary evil, but even then you can work around them if you are creative enough.  On a tactical map, however, it can be very easily worked around, i.e. move a number of 'inches' instead of a number of squares.

Building a 4x game without a grid of some type would present it's own unique challenges, of course... it's much easier to code a 'tree square' than 'a grove of trees of this size and shape'...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 3:32:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Another problem is finding specific heroes when my kingdom has grown large. If a hero was defeated or left in a city I have to hunt through each city to find them again.

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 5:31:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm fine with hexes or squares in tactical battles, just not squares that act like octagons. They can use squares that act like squares if they can make it look pretty, but it looks bad now and functions worse.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 6:29:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I haven't played too much, but these are my main concerns about the game:

1) Lack of diversity:

Everything feels the same. I do not find myself trying new things, because either I have no reason (see below) or because it's not different.

The one main difference between games are if your sovereign is a caster or a melee. Caster is for endgame where you can throw mana around, melee is for early game. Beyond choosing that, I play my race and tech tree the same way, pretty much ignoring the traits I picked for my race (I play custom usually) etc.

I wish for something more like MoM (insecticide patched) where I have a dozen of options to try to beat the game when it's on 'impossible' difficulty. The patched game is extremely hard, and you have to use a 'broken' build to beat it. Some builds are too slow, while others are not powerful enough. I have found 4 builds that managed to win it, and there are probably more.

Fallen Enchantress (and most other games when I compare them to MoM and MoO2, including the civs), as it is now, is really bland compared to a game from 95- we don't have as many spells, the races are nearly the same and there is not nearly as much versatility.

 

2) Lack of AI:

If I play the game on high difficulty, I simply reach a point where the computer sends wave after wave of magicians till I'm down. Due to the very low rate of experience heroes get from destroying armies, it means that he overwhelms me at some point.

If I play on "normal" difficulty, I am simply cleaning my zones till I feel bored, build a stack of doom and start destroying the AI till I feel that "GG I won" and go away.

The second option happens because I expanded a lot faster than the AI, cleaned the zone faster and got my hero to a higher level (which in turn means I can do this all over again and snowball).

note- I feel about the same option regarding civ4, civ5 and AoW3.

 

3) Game progression:

You start with a city, research techs and expand. All is fun and well, but the techs are boring. Researching better weapons just means that "yay my units grew stronger", in a very linear way. There is no real thought into it.

I expected at least a tradeoff that was supposed to be in the old Elemental that "I got this new shiny armor, but it weighs so much I have to give up on my giant sword. What to do?", or "Do I have 10 turns to build this unit, or should I build a few weaker ones?". The first is not an issue anymore beside choosing the weapon, and the second has one answer- yes. That is because the units in the game come in tiers. Units in different tiers can't do anything to units in higher tier, due to a much higher defense, much higher offense and a lot more health.

In civ and AoW, deciding to take 3 bad units for the price of 1 big unit could be a serious decision, if I actually believed that they will be able to kill it and survive in some form (in civ many of them will die, in aow a few will die, in mom a few might die depending on the gap in power). I do not find I believe in this kind of tactic in FE due to cost of the death of units, amount of units it's possible to bring to battle, and the gap in power.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 6:34:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really can't just pick one, but the two game-breakers for me whenever I try to come back to this title (because I want to) are:

1. Immersion/Personality

All the artistic/creative bits of the game just don't gel for me to give me a will to play.  I could go into more detail if asked. It's not about technical artistic quality.

2. Basic melee combat

The ability to manipulate the first strike so easily against the AI, and the fact that it makes such a critical difference. It's always the best tactic to use.  HOMM style turned based combat is more satisfying.  

Maybe if I could get myself to play for long enough, I could get over #2, but it always ruins melee for me.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 23, 2014 8:04:51 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Sanati,

First I'm not a huge fan of custom units, but it can be enjoyable if done right. It's not in this game. There aren't enough options, it doesn't feel like building a custom unit, it's just taking a generic unit and putting the best gear on it.
I wouldn't say there aren't enough options, I would say that there are too many obvious choices and not enough meaningful options.

 

For a game that does unit customization right, I would go for Starsector (previously Starfarer) and maybe the first Sword of the Stars.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 1:14:25 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Immersion is really off in the game. It just doesn't pull me into the world like other 4X games do. Part of this is due to the art style which I will get to later.

The factions and world just isn't diverse or interesting enough. Everything is far to same.

I really REALLY dislike the art style. I don't mind cartoony or stylized art at all, in fact it's often better than doing realistic styles which age poorly. But the cartoony/stylized look here is awful. It's really muddy and boring. The monsters look dull. The spells, and actions on the battlefield are atrocious. Watch some of the spells, or actions occurring...it looks so bad. I can't even say one thing in particular. It just really blends itself in this muddy, boring, dull style. Nothing sticks out or looks good.

Tech tree is lame, and unchanging mostly for factions.

The tactical combat is really boring.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 8:11:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oh and Lightning Bolt is grossly overpowered. For 19 mana you can scythe through entire armies. Makes for very boring combat, just get two casters with lighting bolts and force the enemy to fight in a checkered pattern and its game over.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 9:49:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1) Art style was absolutely bland, uninspired and generally repulsive.

2) Lack of dynasty building.

3) Lack of minor factions.

4) Bland unit types (see Age of Wonders III for example of how "generic" unit types for different races could be done perfectly right).

5) UI was improved in FE over EOW, but even in LH there still were some pretty uncomfortable things.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 11:24:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It seems lot of players are using this thread to air long held grievances.

Here are some of mine:

Balance: Trained troops are not balanced with magic or monsters. They scale so much monsters are a joke after boar spears. Some of them have one hit kill spells or super high damage but that just leads to everything becoming a glass cannon late game. Trained troops just scale with larger group sizes and better equipment while monsters and spells don't. You can easily quadruple the hp alone of trained units. So many spells, summons, and monsters are only balanced for an incredibly small portion of the game. Also whats with such low max army sizes. It just forces you to use all elite units. I would remove upgrading group size period, what does it add to the game? At least boost the starting size to 5 so each additional unit isn't such a huge improvement. Yes I know that would require a complete game rebalance but at least it wouldn't require any coding. The ability to spawn and summon units at your highest group size would also be nice.

Unit Design and Combat: As others have said it's not done very well. Not enough traits, limits, or real differences between equipment. See my Blood & Mana mod for some racial traits. We just plain need more traits and items that grant abilities and real noticeable differences between units that allow them to fill different roles. A stronger negative relationship between attack and defense would also help. Right now you just build the strongest unit possible and throw them in waves. Defenders are only real specialized melee unit and the AI has no idea how to use them. Your supposed to lead with your high armor units so they absorb the first blows, not charge in with all your low armor units first.

Map:  You use stamps so why is their so little so look at in this game? This game desperately needs some props thrown in liven up maps and give areas distinct feels. Sprinkle rock formations, ruins, beaches, and whatever across the maps. Sea cliffs in particular are practically disturbing in that they all look so alike I'm half convinced Elemental takes place in some weird demented nightmare world. Throw some rocks and doodads into the ocean please!

Vestigial Remnants: It's really annoying seeing so much stuff that has been removed or ignored remain in the game in some weird unholy half life. Caravans are a prime example of this. They serve no real purpose except maybe scouting anymore so remove them.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 2:42:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

A completely trivial thing but it BUGS ME SO MUCH : The amount of time a game turn represents.

With each turn being 3 months it can be decades before much happens. My early heroes (I'm being charitable and guessing that the sovereign is somehow immortal) should be either retired or even dead of old age by then.

GalCiv2 has the opposite problem. Each turn is only a week so in a few years I colonize the galaxy and populations increase many times over. What are we bacteria?

 

I know... I know... this has no effect on anything but it is my nr. 1 peeve with stardock games.

 

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 24, 2014 11:34:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 

One thing that I really don't like is the inability to edit a custom sovereign/race (at least not easily). One of my favorite parts of any game that offers custom races is to tweak them to game to game.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 25, 2014 2:02:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1. The graphical presentation. For instance, the leveling interface looks way too bland. Make it sparklier! Considering how many aspiring modellers/animators are around places like Polycount I feel that the models could look nicer as well.

 

2. The empire-building part is just "alright" - the dynamics between the different city types could be much more polished, as could the city founding. The individual cities don't really feel "special". This is not something most competitors do well either though. I'm thinking a design choice has to be made; either do very intricate and dynamic mechanics or very simple ones. Example of good intricate ones: Master of Mana mod for Civ IV, example of good simple ones: Warlords III DLR.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #101114  walnut1   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0001735   Page Render Time:

Terms of Use

Copyright © 2015 Stardock Entertainment and Gas Powered Games. Demigod is a trademark of Gas Powered Games. All rights reserved. All other trademarks and copyrights are the properties of their respective owners. Windows, the Windows Vista Start button and Xbox 360 are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies, and 'Games for Windows' and the Windows Vista Start button logo are used under license from Microsoft. © 2012 Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. All rights reserved. AMD, the AMD Arrow logo and combinations thereof are trademarks of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.