Demigod makes the world a better place?

I think everything has been said and no once is willing to come to a conclusion or agree just partly with the opponents opinion. That is totally fine and not a bad thing. It is a good think, actually. This keeps the balance of ideas and will always stop bandwagon effects that might go off road. We agree to disagree and don't kill each other. So far have we come in humanity

Just let me say this. Maybe in a few years when the Zen_God movement has grown and I have finished my PHD or any other sort of educational title, in1 will maybe stop the obvious "hate" in his posts and talk more factual to me , instead down to me and us.

DISCUSSION IS CLOSED if Zen_God is an arrogant idiot or actually trying something intelligent!

Now I want to continue with the other topic of this thread:

Does a little game like Demigod make the world a better place?

and talk more factual to me

I was as factual as possible. The issue was, you didn't like those facts.

Does a little game like Demigod make the world a better place?

No. And why would it? Competitive team games bring out the worst in human beings, which aren't perfect in the first place. It does make the world a bit more interesting, though.

Quoting JUSThaveFUN,

reply 51

Does a little game like Demigod make the world a better place?

The world really is fuked up if there are people who think a computer game can make the world a better place...

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 52

and talk more factual to me

I was as factual as possible. The issue was, you didn't like those facts.

Does a little game like Demigod make the world a better place?

No. And why would it? Competitive team games bring out the worst in human beings, which aren't perfect in the first place. It does make the world a bit more interesting, though.

I'm a little concerned. Facts do not equal opinions. Someone from your educational status should know that better than me. But if you honestly believe that every single post of yours is factual I'm not going to argue it.

@hero good point.

However is it wrong to point out small communities that better themselves interacting in a video game and communicating with each other? It's not just Demigod we are talking about, the entire gaming industry eventually? Does that not bring a lot of happiness and interest to the people that are able to play/watch video games? For instance, the worldcup unites the world or the olympics, no wars are allowed. You don't think video games could reach that point as well?

Quoting JUSThaveFUN,

reply 54

However is it wrong to point out small communities that better themselves interacting in a video game and communicating with each other? It's not just Demigod we are talking about, the entire gaming industry eventually? Does that not bring a lot of happiness and interest to the people that are able to play/watch video games? For instance, the worldcup unites the world or the olympics, no wars are allowed. You don't think video games could reach that point as well?

I wouldnt want the world to become such place. The world cup come actually does bring people together and not just in a virtual reality like games do. We live in a world where there are enough of that crap as it is dont need to enourage people to spend even more time in this virtual world. It might make people happy but its just all an illusion.

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 46

I have finished my doctoral dissertation 4 years ago. Have half a dozen articles published, too.

Well a PhD is a very demanding process, depending somewhat on the field, so well done from me on that one, and also for the peer reviewed publications. However it seems even more ludicrous to me now that you call people's intelligence into question on a gaming forum. Surely after completing such a process you would see the range of intelligence on offer in all walks of life, some greater, some less and some wasted. And most importantly you would see that intelligence in no way guarantees success or happiness in this world. Why do you feel the need to belittle people in this way?

so well done from me on that one

I'm infinitely proud to be worthy of your appreciation, doggu.

Why do you feel the need to belittle people in this way?

The correct phrasing, I believe, would be: "Why do you feel the need to put those adolescent megalomaniacs into place?"

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 57

I'm infinitely proud to be worthy of your appreciation, doggu.

Sarcasm is always fun.

Just out of curiosity was the postgrad study language or literature related?

Yes. Comparative linguistics.

English is not my mother tongue, so my attempts at sarcasm are sometimes a wee bit half-assed

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 57

"Why do you feel the need to put those adolescent megalomaniacs into place?"

Ever since you named this first I introduce myself as it

For those that do not know what a Megalomaniac is:

Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. 'Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'

I aggree with the inflated sense of self-esteem. But not with the other points. I'll give you a little self analysis and maybe you can find a better technical term to describe my disorder^^

I really believe anything is possible in this world. I believe one person can change society such as Plato/Socrates did. Furthermore, every person in the world can do anything physical possible if he becomes passionate about it. I believe that people that go "insane" have found a new door to humanity but can't handle it and do a lot of silly stuff. I believe having a good night sleep changes the world to a better place. I'm a firm believer that you do not have to be taught in anything to understand how the world works as a whole. I feel happy every day and try to reach out to every person in the world. I reached happiness and am now rediscovering the world like a newborn I also think every person is right in their way of thinking, however since we share the same planet, a lot of thinking ways collide and make each other wrong.

Quoting hero_,

reply 55

Quoting JUSThaveFUN, reply 54However is it wrong to point out small communities that better themselves interacting in a video game and communicating with each other? It's not just Demigod we are talking about, the entire gaming industry eventually? Does that not bring a lot of happiness and interest to the people that are able to play/watch video games? For instance, the worldcup unites the world or the olympics, no wars are allowed. You don't think video games could reach that point as well?

I wouldnt want the world to become such place. The world cup come actually does bring people together and not just in a virtual reality like games do. We live in a world where there are enough of that crap as it is dont need to enourage people to spend even more time in this virtual world. It might make people happy but its just all an illusion.

People said since the ancient time that the "real world" is an illusion

I believe one person can change society such as Plato/Socrates did

The world was a lot smaller back then, and they lived in a society where it was comparatively easy to interact at the government level. Not to mention Socrates traveled all over the place giving his talks.

I'm a firm believer that you do not have to be taught in anything to understand how the world works as a whole.

That was true in the days of the Renaissance, where the "Renaissance Men" could, and did, know more-or-less "all" the academic information that was discovered and available at the time to them. And could use these different chunks and pieces from different academics and combine them and see how they worked in similar and different ways across different fields. That was partially why so much was "discovered" then.

Today, you have to school for years and years just to get the smallest bits of all the various academics. Then you have to train for more years to go deeper in one specific academic field. Perhaps even a "specialization" of that specific academic field. And you still don't even know everything in that field at the end of it all.

People said since the ancient time that the "real world" is an illusion

And people have been arguing against it for just as long. "I think, therefore I am" is saying just that. At the very least "one person" isn't an illusion - you, the spectator.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 62

The world was a lot smaller back then, and they lived in a society where it was comparatively easy to interact at the government level. Not to mention Socrates traveled all over the place giving his talks.

Back then there was no internet or mass communication available. Also the standard of living was much harsher than of today, barely anyone could afford just thinking and going around town and giving speeches. Also it would take forever, for an idea to be spread and understood with the educational level of the masses.

Furthermore, I meant that our society we live in is very close to plato's books of society. Our society is mostly unknowingly following those exact theories for the most part. One can put it this way, we all live the way plato said it would be a good way to live in. All the Zen_God is saying that those ideas are outdated and obviously not working, and it is our time to make a move, whoever wants to through the Zen_God.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 62

Today, you have to school for years and years just to get the smallest bits of all the various academics. Then you have to train for more years to go deeper in one specific academic field. Perhaps even a "specialization" of that specific academic field. And you still don't even know everything in that field at the end of it all.

I totally agree with you. You have to learn the old ideas, so you won't just come up with the same ones that are snow from yesterday. However, I think we lost a lot what the renaissance men did back then. Just because you do not have a degree does not mean you can not have great ideas. A degree helps of course to establish them. But there are so many titled human beings that had terrible ideas since the renaissance and are ultimately destroying this planet and what it means to be a human being.

we need all voices from the garbage man to the professor of Harvard. Because no one has understood life so far in our academic studies, in the sense we have an equation for life that 1+1 = 2.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 62

And people have been arguing against it for just as long. "I think, therefore I am" is saying just that. At the very least "one person" isn't an illusion - you, the spectator.

I love this. I have a question: " can the spectator interact?"

All the Zen_God is saying that those ideas are outdated and obviously not working, and it is our time to make a move, whoever wants to through the Zen_God.

This sentence confuses me (and this is the thesis of this block, i'm assuming, so i do need to understand it). Even if i replace your sentence with a first-person pronoun, it still makes no sense. Other than sounding like a cult thing.

we need all voices from the garbage man to the professor of Harvard

There's a pretty big difference between letting an uneducated man give an opinion, and actually taking that opinion into consideration. This is why Republics were created instead of "true" Democracies. Should people have the right to critique their government and contact their legal representative? Of course. Do i think that sometimes corporations have their foot in the government and they are kicking out some of the small people? Yep.

But does that mean i feel the need to give the garbage man the legal right to tell the President how to run the national economy? Or to put it as a poll on usa.gov webpage? No. People are dumb. The masses are stupid.

(not to mention, everyone probably has an idea of what the government "should be" and what it's failing to do and stuff. i differentiate that a bit from society as a whole).

I love this. I have a question: " can the spectator interact?"

uhhh... if you're saying that i am the only spectator in an artificially constructed world being handled by the great deceiver, then i can only interact as much as anyone can with an artificial and imaginary construct. i can't exactly interact with Santa Claus, but i can sure as hell talk with my dad. Or as much as you "interact" with one of your own dreams.

If the world isn't artificial, then it's pretty obvious that yah, i can interact with it because it's real.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 64

People are dumb. The masses are stupid.

well like with everthing else we start with one assumption. You say the people are dumb, and you are part of the people. Another funny thing is everyone says the people are dumb. compare it to LoL everyone says the community is dumb, but everyone is part of the community. It's not that simple that you can assume it as a fact that the masses are dumb. That is so outdated and untrue. I will say this though, the intelligent individual is very likely to become dumb in the masses, but when alone again he behaves more intelligent. If you're interested I will expand on this.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 64

This sentence confuses me (and this is the thesis of this block, i'm assuming, so i do need to understand it). Even if i replace your sentence with a first-person pronoun, it still makes no sense. Other than sounding like a cult thing.

Oh that's because you're used to it being the nickname of an individual for quite some years^^ just substitute Zen_God with activist movement in your head (the movement i started i named Zen_God, besides gamers no one will think of it as an individual). Then it hopefully won't sound like a cult

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 64

There's a pretty big difference between letting an uneducated man give an opinion, and actually taking that opinion into consideration. This is why Republics were created instead of "true" Democracies. Should people have the right to critique their government and contact their legal representative? Of course. Do i think that sometimes corporations have their foot in the government and they are kicking out some of the small people? Yep.

But does that mean i feel the need to give the garbage man the legal right to tell the President how to run the national economy? Or to put it as a poll on usa.gov webpage? No. People are dumb. The masses are stupid.

(not to mention, everyone probably has an idea of what the government "should be" and what it's failing to do and stuff. i differentiate that a bit from society as a whole).

I think we are kinda saying the same. The fact is though that 1% is raping the rest. The Occupy Wallstreet movement is real and growing, for instance.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 64

If the world isn't artificial, then it's pretty obvious that yah, i can interact with it because it's real.

I fully see what you're saying. For the movement I started it is the following:

The Zen_God movement is less concerned if something is real or not. In the end does it matter that much? The Zen_God movement is trying to do that everyone has a prettier dream, be it real or an illusion or both or neither

The Occupy Wallstreet movement is real and growing, for instance.

Yes, those guys are a lot like you. They have no clue what are they doing and to what end, but championing a vague idea of universal justice makes them feel cool.

You know what's really amusing? You, sir, as well as that clueless group of individuals, are a 100% product of capitalist economy and bourgeois society you protest against.

OMGIN1 and Maulkin was sitting in a tree... K-I-S-S_I...."whats with the sledge hammar?"

Quoting Maulkin,

reply 67

OMGIN1 and Maulkin was sitting in a tree... K-I-S-S_I...."whats with the sledge hammar?"

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 66

The Occupy Wallstreet movement is real and growing, for instance.

Yes, those guys are a lot like you. They have no clue what are they doing and to what end, but championing a vague idea of universal justice makes them feel cool.

You know what's really amusing? You, sir, as well as that clueless group of individuals, are a 100% product of capitalist economy and bourgeois society you protest against.

All big changes and revolutions started with a vague idea throughout history. Take the US for instance: No taxation without representation. Or World war 1: We don't know why we go to war anymore but we help our allies no matter what

Or Ghandi: I want free salt!

All big changes and revolutions started with a vague idea throughout history.

That's simply wrong.

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 70

All big changes and revolutions started with a vague idea throughout history.

That's simply wrong.

If you want I find someone with a higher academic education than you that says this is right;)

If you want I find someone with a higher academic education than you that says this is right;)

If he says "all big changes and revolutions started with a vague idea throughout history", he's either educated in a totally different field (say, electronics) or tries to twist the facts deliberately.

Well, I have a little time to be a nerd this afternoon, so here goes...

Does Demigod make the world a better place?

Quoting JUSThaveFUN,

reply 0

Believe it or not, Demigod made me a better human being. Other Demigod fanatics have so too. Every game is accepted except video games in our society.

Quoting OMGIN1,

reply 52

No. And why would it? Competitive team games bring out the worst in human beings, which aren't perfect in the first place. It does make the world a bit more interesting, though.

Quoting hero_,

reply 53

The world really is fuked up if there are people who think a computer game can make the world a better place...

Quoting JUSThaveFUN,

reply 54

However is it wrong to point out small communities that better themselves interacting in a video game and communicating with each other? It's not just Demigod we are talking about, the entire gaming industry eventually? Does that not bring a lot of happiness and interest to the people that are able to play/watch video games? For instance, the worldcup unites the world or the olympics, no wars are allowed. You don't think video games could reach that point as well?

Quoting hero_,

reply 55

I wouldnt want the world to become such place. The world cup come actually does bring people together and not just in a virtual reality like games do. We live in a world where there are enough of that crap as it is dont need to enourage people to spend even more time in this virtual world. It might make people happy but its just all an illusion.

I think that covers all the replies that had anything to do with the question "does Demigod make the world a better place?" Here's my take.

I'm pretty much on the same page as In1 (see quote above). I don't really think Demigod makes the world all that better. It's safe to say that we've all had some fun and frustration with the game, but I don't believe its improved my quality of life, made me a better human being, etc. I've made some friends that I'll try to keep in contact with, etc, and my life is enriched by that in some way. I've also met some folks that made my life more difficult when going through rough times (3 close family members dying, for instance). Overall, I certainly enjoyed my time in Demigod land.

I'll go on into a little more detail on a relevant path. Demigod is a competitive game. The logical goal being to become the best you can and compete - perhaps getting better. So, let's say I become the best there is at the game. What do I gain? The admiration, apathy, respect, and/or spite of the community. Being excellent would perhaps enable me to win some of the few tournaments we had, which would provide me with a very modest financial gain. And perhaps I'd have a feeling of accomplishment for having risen to the top. So, if you just take it at that, I've earned a little money (eg non sustainable income), I have an ego boost at being excellent, and perhaps my confidence encourages me all the more to pursue other games in the assumption that I will likely rise to the top there as well. So, did any of that make the world a better place? No... not really. Odds are the only thing I've inspired other folks to do is to try to improve their game enough to beat me.

So, that said, perhaps Demigod might make your individual view on the world a better place (eg if you are the champ, then all I said above is true for you), but it really doesn't do much for others. Unless, of course, during the time in those long lobby waits, etc, you go the more social route and develop relationships and friendships with other people. Then you might have something that will last and could be beneficial to more than yourself.

And on the random side, as apparently I'm really into the tempest for some odd reason...

Quoting Prospero,

reply 1

You do look, my son, in a moved sort, As if you were dismay'd: be cheerful, sir. Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Ye all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep.

Awesome post pacov. I agree with you. And take from your answer that if you want demigod to make a better world it can be used in this way, but of course it can be destructive too if you don't.

I think you could say that about any organization or thing in the world.

For instance does charity make the world a better place? Yes of course it does. But it also doesn't, because people don't learn much from what is given them for free and it rarely changes the situation they are in to get out of charity dependence.

Everyone can give or take what he thinks is right or wrong. That is not the question to judge though.

Zen_God wants Charity and Demigod, and people can make out of it what they want. That is better than not having Charity and Demigod.

Quoting JUSThaveFUN,

reply 74

Awesome post pacov. I agree with you. And take from your answer that if you want demigod to make a better world it can be used in this way, but of course it can be destructive too if you don't.

I think you could say that about any organization or thing in the world.

I think that's the point, though - you can make the best of anything; but the natural proclivity of competitive gaming is not social outreach. Its domination. Back when getting quick games started was common and simple, I'd just join games and go. No discussion. No jibba jabba. Just playing a game with strangers. You are more likely to encounter someone making trollish comments, etc, than you are to have someone say "great job." Anyway, after playing more games, you become pals of a sort with others. These are folks that aren't exactly friends, but that you enjoy playing with. Again, no real relationship created, but you'd rather play with a person than against them (enter Demigod's Premade - GTFO). And last, there are those few that you actually develop relationships and get to know what they are like in real life, what's going on with them, etc. Takes a bit to get to that last step - as I'd wager most of us are actually playing a game because we want to play a game (eg not because we are looking to make pals with someone in Australia).

Anyway, for my part, I've tried not to be the guy that is harassing others in game (though I have failed from time to time of course) and did whatever I could to get more and more folks playing together and interacting with each other. I didn't do that to make pals, though. I did it to get better games going with more folks. That's why I hosted weekends of "X V X Vent bal" games, created tournaments, created my often enraging "tier 1, tier 2 players" thread. It wasn't out of love for mankind.

If I was trying to change, I'd likely place more focus on the relationships I have in games like LoL. Make more of an effort to get to know folks and so on that I play with on a semi regular basis. But the reality is that I generally don't care to "shoot the shit" on a regular basis. I'd much rather play a game. Anyway, I actually do think that is something I need to work on personally.

Anyway, back the the "natural proclivity of competitive gaming" - the bottom line is that its not the best venue for making the world a better place (eg pacov must destroy his enemies). It's naturally a great place for angry folks to take out their frustrations on other people (mostly referring to trolling here). But we can have a positive impact if we choose - 1st by not being a douche bag; 2nd by being a good teammate; and 3rd by developing a relationship as a friend. Even if you only do 1 and 2, you certainly aren't having a negative impact in that case. blahblahblah

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yes!