pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc

By on November 29, 2011 1:07:18 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums


Join Date 02/2008

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:

Please join me if you like.






Am I streaming



Well, I started a thread  back in August ( that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new -
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news -

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.


Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow -
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October 15, 2012 8:05:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

so - some things we know about season 3. 

  • For sure, there will be either new or updated summoner spells. Riot has confirmed this. 
  • They indicated that they are going to try to change the top lane meta, but they just cited things that are wrong with it as is - no "how to fix" moments that I've read.
  • New/reworked items - nothing specific I've read

re: the new/updated summoner's spells - does anyone remember if they immediately rolled out the previous changes at the start of season 2?  I think they did.  If so, then we'll see these new/updated summoner's spells in a week or so (can't think of the exact date off the top of my head).  Anyone else have anything to add re: season 3 changes?  I'm guessing we'll see something done to nerf flash.

streaming again.

edit - stream off.

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October 15, 2012 11:36:27 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

riot comments on changes to the jungle in season 3


We've actually been working on changes for the jungle in anticipation for Season 3 and though I can't really give all the details here because we are still iterating, I'd like to give you guys some insights into what's going on.

There are a multitude of issues we're tackling and they are very much intertwined. The current dominant jungle strategy (GP10 Support / Tanks) is fairly stagnant and the overall current jungle playstyle in many cases severely limits potential strategy and choices in other lanes/roles as well.

One large problem is that efficient farming of the jungle has very little pay off compared to constantly applying lane pressure by camping / ganking. Overall junglers severely lack in gold unless they successfully gank and snowball the game from the get-go and/or opt for a GP10 strategy.

The approach we're currently taking is to significantly increase the rewards of jungle camps over time (junglers already have a huge impact on the early game). To go along with this though, we are buffing jungle camps back up to actually be more threatening while simultaneously offering new / improved item paths that allow players to specialize in the jungle. Overall we want junglers to be rewarded for building combat stats rather than always being forced to build gold generation items.

This is not the only thing we're changing in the jungle for next season, but these types of things are definitely on our radar.


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October 16, 2012 12:21:22 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So basically Riot is admitting that this new jungle is wrong and that we should go back to the old jungle.  Good.

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October 16, 2012 2:38:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Warwick back to king of the jungle?

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October 16, 2012 8:43:55 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting pacov,
To go along with this though, we are buffing jungle camps back up to actually be more threatening while simultaneously offering new / improved item paths that allow players to specialize in the jungle. Overall we want junglers to be rewarded for building combat stats rather than always being forced to build gold generation items.

sooo... kinda yes.  The thing I'd note is improved item paths that allow players to specialize in the jungle.  Heck if I know what they are plotting...

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October 16, 2012 12:29:40 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

snagged this from reddit - here's what we know about season 3 changes... sadly everything is in pretty broad strokes.  No official word on the timing.



  • Will make "safe"/single-target junglers viable again (Fiddle, WW, etc.)
  • Buff the jungle camps (between Season 1 and Season 2 difficulty), increase gold dramatically)
  • Aim to increase mid- to late-game gold


  • New support-oriented items
  • New ways for supports to get gold (masteries?)
  • Look at start-of-game items (balancing boots+pots vs Doran's, etc.)
  • Work on making on-hit builds viable

Champion Reworks

  • Heimerdinger and Karma are the current rework-ees
  • IronStylus re: time on redesigning champs: "no matter how many mothers you throw at it, it takes nine months to make a baby."
  • They're going to look at model sizes and adjust them so they're more uniform (Sona and MF should be similar height, for example)

Season 3 Features

  • Ladder "improvements" mentioned, but in vague terms
  • Built-in VOIP unlikely in LoL's feature
  • Achievements might show up during Season 3


  • There will be a rework similar to the one at the start of Season 2

Added note - riot indicated that jungles like ww and fiddlesticks thrive in the new jungle.

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October 16, 2012 4:11:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sounds like some exciting changes. Making the jungle more difficult and rewarding should reduce lane camping atleast a bit, which is particularly good for top lane.

Reworking support items and how supports get gold seems to suggest gp/10 items could be going entirely or changing a lot. I know Riot has been unhappy about junglers and top lane using gp/10 for awhile. Outside of support, less passive gold gaining is probably a positive thing, assuming junglers will have less gold issues from the new jungle.

They have also talked a lot about a major item overhaul in general, primarily to create more diverse item options. I really like this idea, but they have to take it pretty far for it to work properly. I'm not sure the best way to do this. Maybe creating numerous <3000 gold items that have several different building paths. Weaker items overall, but a lot more diversity to prevent all-powerful, 95% popularity Infinity Edge scenarios.



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October 16, 2012 5:45:54 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting AragornV,
Reworking support items and how supports get gold seems to suggest gp/10 items could be going entirely or changing a lot.

Yeah - I'm thinking they need to make it good enough to be a support with the gold per masteries/runes and some sort of gp/5, but also reduce the gp/5 value so that it doesn't make sense to get them on junglers or top laners.  So you could make more money via the support masteries and less on the gp/5.  We'll see what they come up with.  They also made it sound like a 0 cs support will get more money than what is typical for other items.  I think this means that we'll see more ap centric, non standard supports thrive as they'll be able to add more ap items to their kit.   Guess we'll wait n see.

I'd love it if there was more diversity or strategy in item builds.  adc's typically build the same stuff, etc.  hopefully ga gets nerfed or is more expensive for less base stats, etc. 

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October 16, 2012 6:05:35 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

re: season 3 support changes - a few quick things.  1 - sona is apparently going to get nerfed somehow.

and this...


Agreed - I think we can agree on this. We'll keep a tight eye on supports coming up here (Janna not being used was really surprising!) and the item changes will also have a massive effect. When Season 3 comes to a close, we'll be doing some heavy balance work with that initiative - especially because a lot will change, power-wise.

We do have some specific things in there that help supports directly - including alternate gold gain methods that work within the classic support playstyle.

edit - more in depth info here:

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October 16, 2012 8:33:17 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
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October 16, 2012 11:53:44 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

interesting night of games - if you have any interest in watching the games with audio (you hear me + everyone in vent chat - downside is that the video is always from my pov), check my stream - I'm archiving the games there for exactly that purpose.  My last game of the night is particularly interesting imo - so give a look if you like.  The scenario was that we have a 4 man pre - picked up a so so jungler, and 1 of the 4 man had internet problems and dropped to never rejoin.  We actually had a huge lead and then pissed it away.  Ah well.  Fun games for the most part.  Karl got super mad at me, we talked about it, life goes on.  Anyway, thx for the games all.  Night!

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October 17, 2012 12:31:10 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

new patch inbound

Twisted Fate


  • Fixed a bug where Fiddlestick's autoattack could be interrupted by Dark Wind


  • Fixed a bug where using Devastating Charge on an enemy Tower causes it to redirect aggro onto Hecarim


  • Updated Katarina's Lore


  • Fixed a bug where Lulu's autoattack could be interrupted by Pix


  • Fixed a bug where voidlings could get stuck in walls when using abilities in impassible terrain


  • Fixed a bug where Rengar could double jump


  • Fixed a bug where Ryze's autoattack could be interrupted by Spell Flux


  • Fixed a bug where Syndra could force Monsters to attack each other
  • Fixed a tooltip error for Force of Will
  • Fixed a bug where stunning an opponent on Dominion could cause a graphical error with the scoreboard

Co-op vs. AI

  • Intermediate bots now have a chance to use a random skin


  • Attack speed buffs / debuffs will now immediately take effect instead of having to wait for the next autoattack
  • Fears will no longer reset jungle minions
  • Fixed a bug where Baron Nashor remained "out of combat" when an enemy stealth unit is nearby
  • Fixed a bug where in rare instances Champions would not be able to autoattack

Click here to comment

 of particular note: 

Quoting pacov,
Fears will no longer reset jungle minions

Methinks there is quite a bit of effort going into buffing fid/ww and unintentionally shaco for the s3 changes.

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October 17, 2012 7:09:51 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

NOOOO! My beautiful Rengar bug!

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October 17, 2012 9:52:41 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

  Side note - would love to see a meaningful patch sometime soon.  I'm just glad Katrina's lore has been updated.

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October 17, 2012 4:57:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Spider Queen a reality!!! Riot just announced 'The Shadow Isles' promotion:

Which besides the announcement of The Spider Queen also includes RP/IP purchasable ward skins, new champion skins, new summoner icons, and some lore updates.

I was having trouble with the promo site so here is ROG's thing on it.



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October 17, 2012 5:51:47 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

look - bottom line is that wards now have skins.  gg.  heh - anyway, love the new stuff... just wondering when... gotta be soon if they want to hit Halloween.

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October 18, 2012 12:50:40 AM from PoliticalMachine Forums PoliticalMachine Forums

Dearest pacov... I've been telling you this for weeks, but somebody out there finally made it a reality...

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October 18, 2012 12:56:58 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums



fuggin delightful.  Ty swan

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October 18, 2012 1:23:13 AM from PoliticalMachine Forums PoliticalMachine Forums

sorry i haven't been on much... my free time is now right after you usually go to bed... at least on days i work... i've worked the last 9 days in a row and tomorrow will be 10 and then i'll have two days off... so hopefully i'll see you on sometime during those two days

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October 18, 2012 1:23:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

big changes inbound.  quick copy paste then discussion.  I'll start by saying... riot... smeh...

Another patch is about ready to hit the Public Beta Environment, so it’s time to take an in-depth look at a few of the potential updates slated to hit the Fields of Justice. We won’t cover everything, and some of this is likely to change based on your feedback, but here’s what you can expect when you log into the PBE.

League of Rengar

After his initial release, we made a series of improvements to help Rengar live up to his reputation as the ultimate predator. They worked – so well, in fact, that even after one round of nerfs Rengar’s still wreaking havoc all over the Fields of Justice.

To dial back some of the extra kick that we gave the Pridestalker, we’ve got a series of upcoming changes. Step one was taking the bonus from a Ferocity-charged Savagery attack down to a more reasonable level. We’re also reducing his base Health Regen to make him less sustainable in lane. Because his base survivability was so high, Rengar players were able to dump a disproportionate amount of their Ferocity into raw damage potential. This made him an incredibly frustrating lane bully. With his Health Regen at a more reasonable level, Rengar will now have to balance his Ferocity between sustaining with Battle Roar and raw ganking potential.

In addition to his laning presence, Rengar was able to abuse his ultimate to escape from sticky situations a little too easily. Since we wanted this ability to be about hunting people down and killing them, rather than split pushing and vanishing into the woods, we decided to reduce total stealth duration on Thrill of the Hunt and increase the cooldown. This should give the decision to go on the hunt a bit more gravitas.

Evelynn Makes Widows

Since the remake, the Widowmaker has really been living up to her name, and Agony’s Embrace has been causing tragic moments for champions all across the Fields of Justice. In an effort to mitigate the number of traumatized players Eve’s been leaving in her wake, we’re going to be dialing back the Ability Power ratio on her ultimate quite a bit. This should help to prevent her from snowballing out of control as the game goes on and she racks up AP.

Evelynn’s ultimate was intended to work as a great initiation tool, slowing enemies and giving Evelynn the shield she needed to stay up through a team fight. In conjunction with a Deathfire Grasp, however, it can brutally spike down an enemy before they can react.

Deathfire Grasp

While we’re on the subject, Deathfire Grasp is a particularly challenging item to balance because adding an additional nuke to an already bursty mage (like Evelynn) can be a rather scary proposition. Because the stats it offers are already so desirable, there’s almost no downside to folding the active ability on DFG in with your standard spell combo and simply blowing people up.

Because of the power the active brings to the table, we’ll be scaling back stat bonuses attached to DFG. We’re also scaling back the base damage on the active effect, but increasing the AP ratio to move it more toward the intended function of dealing with big, beefy tanks later in the game when you’ve had time to build up a bunch of Ability Power.

Syndra Rising

Syndra is getting a ton of quality of life improvements in the upcoming patch that should make her a lot easier to use effectively. While her overall utility placed her in a pretty strong position, getting the most out of the Dark Sovereign could be prohibitively tricky. In the new patch, her abilities should function much more intuitively. We also fixed a couple of nasty bugs that could prevent Force of Will, Scatter the Weak, or even Unleashed Power from functioning as intended, which could really hurt your game if you were relying on one them to keep an enemy at bay, set up a combo, or burst somebody down.

Jayce Gets Hammered

Jayce is proving a bit more formidable than we’d intended. The combination of Acceleration Gate and Shock Blast provides him with too much low cost poke, particularly for how difficult it can be to dodge the combo. To make Jayce players choose their shots a bit more carefully, we’re increasing the Mana cost on Acceleration Gate to make him a bit less frustrating to fight against.

We also removed the flat base damage from Thundering Blow to make early exchanges with the Defender of Tomorrow a bit less heavy hitting. We’d always intended for this skill to be a disengage tool, and having it function as his hardest hitting nuke made it a bit too powerful. Even with just the percentage damage and Attack Damage ratio to carry it, it still hits pretty hard, but should make the idea of exchanging combos with Jayce a little less of an intimidating proposition.

Robot Dancing

Sona and Blitzcrank are two supports who both bring a lot to the table, but both are actually too durable for the functions their currently serve. To make sure they pay the price for mistakes they might make in lane, we’ll be dialing back the base stats on both of these popular support champions.

For Sona, we really want to preserve the awesome poke gameplay she has with Hymn of Valor and Power Chord, but we still want her to be vulnerable when she overextends. She’s so safe in lane right now that other supports are actually less viable options by comparison. By taking her down a peg, we think we’ll actually open up the playing field in bottom lane to even more support characters.

While Blitz needs to be a great deal more durable than Sona to fill his role, right now he’s so resilient that he’s able to initiate with relatively little risk. While pulling an opponent is still definitely a viable way to initiate, Blitzcrank’s tanky attributes allow him to simply use Overdrive to run in and open with Power Fist, and then yank the opponent back into range with Rocket Grab as they start to run away. We’re pleased to see these balls-out Power Fist charges, but we’d like them to serve as more of a high-risk gambit than they currently are.

Ezreal’s Essence Fluxes

Ezreal’s been a pretty consistently dominant force in the AD carry lineup since his induction into the League, albeit with a significant learning curve. Ezreal was always intended to be a slippery, long-range, high-skill champion who relied on his extreme mobility and long range poke to take down enemies. Unfortunately, right now, the Attack Speed debuff on Essence Flux is so powerful that it allows him to dominate 1 v 1 duels without doing any of that.

In the upcoming patch, we’re removing the Attack Speed debuff on Essence Flux to prevent the Prodigal Explorer from simply casting his W on an adversary and then finishing off his crippled opponent with repeated attacks. This should force Ezreal players to be quicker on their feet and win duels through superior positioning rather than a brutal debuff.

Phage and Trinity Force

On a related note, we’re also bringing the slow effect on both Phage and Trinity Force down a peg. While this isn’t a direct nerf, both Ezreal and Corki (the two prime Trinity Force customers) can snowball pretty heavily through the added chasing potential that these items provide. To give injured opponents a better chance to escape from attackers both in top and bottom lane, we are reducing the slow effect applied by ranged attacks on both items, and reducing the slow duration on Phage.



k - back to pacov.  So - this is the 1st bit of crap that is pretty much official for season 3 release.  I doubt they will change a damn thing you see here.


so - here we go.  Sona - congrats-  here's how you counter her.  Heavy early game aggression.  I feel like riot completely missed the mark with this nonsense nerf.  Her strength is EXACTLY the same type of thing as blitz.  Its not that they are early game dynamos (though a good sona can poke and sustain a bit more than other supports) - its her ult.  And its blitz's grab.  Those 2 things are the reason those characters are desirable supports.  A sona flash + ult is significantly more accurate than the same move on leona.  She literally needs to barely catch 1 character to begin an initiate and its a super stun time.  Same thing with blitz.  You can play rot as a blitz support and then land a crucial grab.  That can turn the game around completely.   Sure, a support like taric could flash stun someone, but he can't potentially stun multiple folks.  While sona, even if its not in the picking off folks way that blitz works, can ult an entire team.  Anyway, here's what I would change on sona.  Adjust her ult so that there is a slight delay between the cast and effort (or slightly more than now).  Blitz is a threat because of that grab - increase the cool down at early levels and leave him as is.  instead, riot says nerf base stats. So, pacov says, execute sona every game.  If she is the support, kill her immediately with extreme aggression.

jace - the changes are silly.  He doesn't have mana problems.  Increasing the cost on acceleration gate does nothing to his early game.  Impacts his mid game a little bit, and nothing to late game.  It's a silly, arbitrary change.  Jace is strong in lane because of his poke and also his disengage.  Smart players will have enough mana to disengage still.  This does nothing.  The dmg lost on thundering blow hurts a little, but its not that big a deal imo.  And the goofs even say he still hit's pretty hard.  Anyway, the strat is still the same - if you have a top lane jayce, have the jungler add some pressure early to force him out.  He doesn't farm exceedingly well.  Give the top lane some breathing room as jungle and jayce won't shine as much.  Another miss for riot imo. 

ez nerfs... sigh... just dumb imo.  ez shines because of his mobility + that buff.  W/e tho - nerf ez.  Let's see what happens.  What they really need to do is change the way his dodge works...

syndra - here's how to fix her immediately.  make it so she can consistenly stun by knocking all of the balls at enemy hero's 1st.  Boom.  Now she can support and be exceptionally strong in lane.  As long as you cannot count on her to stun, she's going to be meh imo.  And likely everyone else's as she still won't get any play. 

rengar - blahblahblah - you'd have to change his invisibility to like 2-4 seconds for a nerf to work.  They won't.  Solution to the playstyle they hate - make him visible even if he ults if 2 or more champs are nearby - or remove the speed buff if that happens (eg he can't run like a madman).  Crazy, i know, but it forces more strategic decisions.


re eve - do w/e u want. 

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October 18, 2012 10:25:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow, HUGE changes coming to PBE detailed in this unofficial change log:

So they have remade Twisted Treeline plus added several new specific items for the map. May be worth checking out!

Some champ changes:



  • Health: Now 423 (95 ), (was  468 (100 )


  • Health: now 340(+70) , (was 380 (70 ))
  • Armor is now 8(+3.3), (was (3.))


  • [W] - Essence Flux: No longer slows enemy attack speed


The nerf to Blitzcrank is stupid to me. If they are making it easier for supports to get gold, you will be able to buy more tankyness with him anyways. His strength mainly comes from well coordinated teams, so nerfing his health will do nothing to change that. So what if he dies a little sooner, it's irrelevant if he still got all his abilities off and tanked all the damage. If people are stupid enough to get pulled at lvl 1, they should be punished for it.


They also detail the nerf to DFG:

Deathfire Grasp (old)

+80 Ability Power
Passive: +15% Cooldown Reduction
Active: Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 25% of their current Health (+4% per 100 Ability Power)with a minimum of 200 damage (60 second cooldown).

Deathfire Grasp (new)

+80 Ability Power
Active: Deals magic damage to target champion equal to 15% of their current Health (+5% per 100 Ability Power)with a minimum of 200 damage (60 second cooldown).

So the 15% CD reduction is gone as well as a hefty nerf to the base dmg and a small buff in ability power scaling.

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October 18, 2012 4:53:03 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

jebus - PBE is overloaded.  26 minute queue time.

I'm going to give this little program a go - take a look

also, this is just awesome

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October 18, 2012 5:13:25 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Looks like Ezreal is going to drop like a stone in usefulness again. I remember about 2 months ago when he was a "troll" pick for ADC until someone discovered his W is actually useful. Now they are removing the useful part and he is just a good early game carry with an escape and a shitty late game. It looks like the top ADCs after this patch will be Vayne, Graves, Caitlyn, and maybe Corki. (While I like Varus and Kog, neither of them are viable without a team built to keep the enemy Bruiser off of them.)

The Deathfire Grasp nerf is also silly imo. It allowed mages to actually do their job against bruisers who stacked health (i.e. Frozen Mallet, Warmogs, Singed, Mundo, etc.). Now you need 1000 AP to even match the damage pre nerf when riot said that they are "Making it better at its intented purpose" which was killing tanks. However, it is now worse at this in every single way! (getting over 1k AP is never a good thing for 2 reasons: A. Builds that give you over 1000 AP are awful and give little else, and B. The game really shouldn't be lasting long enough to have that much money to waste anyway.)

I disagree with the Sona nerf. I know that she needs nerfs and am personally all for them, but a base health nerfs is stupid in all ways. The problem with sona is her insane range and damage early game with heals to negate any poke you do manage to hit her with. Unless you are Blitz and grab her or Taric and stun her, she is impossible to kill in lane. This will only further augment her late game problems mainly being she is instantly blown up by bruisers.

I suppose I have been building up to a single point with this post. Riot needs to push the top lane changes out and they need to push them out ASAP. Bruisers are almost impossible to defeat straight up as any other class unless you just outplay the enemy player (or are fed all to hell). Riot has already stated that they know how broken solo top champions have to be to be viable up there, but they still release them and keep piling work up for themselves. I almost quit when GW2 came out simply because it seemed like they were nerfing all of the good ADCs and it was already unbearable to play that class vs. bruisers. However, my LoL addiction (and everyone quiting GW2...) eventually made me come back.

All in all I hope Riot manages to keep their word and balance top lane by the start of Season 3.

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October 18, 2012 6:21:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums


Quoting OMG_Shiro,
It looks like the top ADCs after this patch will be draven, draven, draven, and maybe dravoon.

I'm finally logged into pbe.  Going to stream a little bit while I putz around.


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October 19, 2012 12:17:06 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I'm on vacation but it looks like some awesome changes are waiting when I get back...

Fortunately I have streams to watch to give me my LoL fix and recordings of you guys throwing 4v5s to keep me entertained until I get back.  Thanks for that! 

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